Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Safety in the NFL is a weird position. Just last year Ed Reed was supposed to be the second coming of Ronnie Lott, this year???

Everyone has been waiting for Williams to pay more attention to coverage and he seemed to be for the first few games - Two picks - but the TD vs Philly where the ball hung for hours and he had a good read on it was pretty bad.

That said he was providing help on that play and the FS was the true culprit.

I watched the Redskins play Dallas and the Vikings.
I watched some of the Jags game and much of the Texans game.

21 seems to be getting hesitant. In the early games he came in and laid the wood down.
He hit TO over and over.

Now he seems hesitant. Penaties? Tired from covering 2/3rds of the field?

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=5RINGS;227678]

Now he seems hesitant. Penaties? Tired from covering 2/3rds of the field?[/quote]

That might not be a stretch because I am sure he got alot of shit from GW with that penalty agaisnt the Viks. And since he has to cover more of the field, I am sure he is getting tired. I am sure people have mentioned it before, but having a good saftey next to you, and good corners will always make you look better as a safety, because then you have less responsibility, and you can focus on that.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=5RINGS;227678]Safety in the NFL is a weird position. Just last year Ed Reed was supposed to be the second coming of Ronnie Lott, this year???

Everyone has been waiting for Williams to pay more attention to coverage and he seemed to be for the first few games - Two picks - but the TD vs Philly where the ball hung for hours and he had a good read on it was pretty bad.

That said he was providing help on that play and the FS was the true culprit.

I watched the Redskins play Dallas and the Vikings.
I watched some of the Jags game and much of the Texans game.

21 seems to be getting hesitant. In the early games he came in and laid the wood down.
He hit TO over and over.

Now he seems hesitant. Penaties? Tired from covering 2/3rds of the field?[/quote]
I believe any game where the opposing running back is doing well puts extra pressure on the safeties to support the run at the expense of potential big plays off play action. The Giants game was a case in point -Tiki was getting 6-7 yards on most first down carries. Against Dallas and the Jags, I felt Taylor played outstanding, laying heavy wood against those venturing across the middle. He had one bad play taking a horrible angle on the Maurice Jones-Drew TD vs the Jags, but he had 4 or 5 hits in both games that sent a strong message to the opposing receivers. I maintain that if our front 7, and in particular the D-line, was even above average, ST would be the best safety in football. Even with his mistakes in coverage this season, he makes 2-3 plays per game that leave you shaking your head at his freakish skill for such a large safety.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=TheBigD;227226]I did say at the very beginning that this wasn't a comparision. I am sure that Dallas fans would say the exact opposite thing.

The reality is, both are giving up plays. I mean against the Gimps, the two deep passes should have been intercepted for the length of time it stayed up in the air. Later that Sunday, Williams should have intercepted the ball when I think Brown scored a TD.[/quote]

I'll say that there just in a bad secondarys........

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;227217]Williams is without a doubt one of the most overrated players in the game, right up there with Vick.

Taylor is a more complete package than Williams, and I'm not just being a homer.[/quote]

How is Vick overrated?....

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=BMF21;227722]How is Vick overrated?.... oh because he dont have those great receivers to throw to like peyton and carson palmer, , I also remember, they said it was stupid to think we were the wave of the future in Basketball.....................sad even in 2006, I'm sure if Vick had those great receivers that play in Cincy or Indy, his #'s would be way up, but your entitled to say that, but if Vick is overrated lets call out all the overrated players in the league at different postions......Brian Urlacher, John Lynch, Chad Pennington, Ben Rothlesberger, oh my God David Carr... and I'm sure there's tons more....but as time keep passing, QB's like Vick or the wave of the future...........there are no more Larry Birds in Basketball, are they?[/QUOTE]

Are you kidding me? Each game that goes by Vick demonstrates clearly that he is overrated. McNabb is a far better QB. FAR better. He can actually pass and guess what...he hasn't had exactly the second coming of Rice and Taylor at WR. People keep talking about this "wave" but all I see is pocket passers winning SBs. You are in the distinct minority if you think Vick is a top QB in this league. I can name 12 or 13 others I'd take first.

I take it from your comment that you are black. Are you trying to say that people think Vick is overrated because he is black? I think he is overrated because he has never shown that he can actually, you know, effectively pass the ball in the NFL. I don't care if he is white, black, pink, or purple. He sucks at passing. Color has nothing to do with success at the QB position. McNabb proves that each Sunday. Culpepper did the same before he was hurt. Our own JC will hopefully show that in the future. Dude, get over the black martyr stuff.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=FRPLG;227729]Are you kidding me? Each game that goes by Vick demonstrates clearly that he is overrated. McNabb is a far better QB. FAR better. He can actually pass and guess what...he hasn't had exactly the second coming of Rice and Taylor at WR. People keep talking about this "wave" but all I see is pocket passers winning SBs. You are in the distinct minority if you think Vick is a top QB in this league. I can name 12 or 13 others I'd take first.

I take it from your comment that you are black. Are you trying to say that people think Vick is overrated because he is black? I think he is overrated because he has never shown that he can actually, you know, effectively pass the ball in the NFL. I don't care if he is white, black, pink, or purple. He sucks at passing. Color has nothing to do with success at the QB position. McNabb proves that each Sunday. Culpepper did the same before he was hurt. Our own JC will hopefully show that in the future. Dude, get over the black martyr stuff.[/quote]

A Black.....a black what?....... no because he dont play the postion like you think he should, then he's overrated.........that's so much bull, they said that about MJ, that he scored to much and that he never be better than larry bird.........well you fools know how that turned out...

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=BMF21;227734]A Black.....a black what?....... no because he dont play the postion like you think he should, then he's overrated.........that's so much bull, they said that about MJ, that he scored to much and that he never be better than larry bird.........well you fools know how that turned out...[/QUOTE]

Why is race an issue here? Nobody said that Vick was an overrated black quarterback. Don't put words in other people's mouths. He's just an overrated quarterback, period. Yes, Vick is an amazing athlete, but you can't come to the conclusion that he is a great quarterback because he is a great athlete. How has he proven to be a great quarterback so far? Maybe when all is said and done Vick will be one of the best, who knows? But he hasn't done jack to prove that yet.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=NY_Skinsfan;227735]Why is race an issue here? Nobody said that Vick was an overrated black quarterback. Don't put words in other people's mouths. He's just an overrated quarterback, period. Yes, Vick is an amazing athlete, but you can't come to the conclusion that he is a great quarterback because he is a great athlete. How has he proven to be a great quarterback so far? Maybe when all is said and done Vick will be one of the best, who knows? But he hasn't done jack to prove that yet.[/quote]
Vick has won two playoff games, including one on the road at Lambeau Field. Winning in the post-season should count for something. Admittedly, he has a ways to go as a passer, but look at Atlanta's record when he has been injured vs. their record when he plays. I don't have the numbers handy, but I recall MNF showed it during one of their games, and it's pretty stunning what a difference he makes to his team's bottom line.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;227747]Vick has won two playoff games, including one on the road at Lambeau Field. Winning in the post-season should count for something. Admittedly, he has a ways to go as a passer, but look at Atlanta's record when he has been injured vs. their record when he plays. I don't have the numbers handy, but I recall MNF showed it during one of their games, and it's pretty stunning what a difference he makes to his team's bottom line.[/QUOTE]

That's all fine and dandy. He still isn't a very good QB. Anyone who thinks he is is fooling themselves.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=BMF21;227734]A Black.....a black what?....... no because he dont play the postion like you think he should, then he's overrated.........that's so much bull, they said that about MJ, that he scored to much and that he never be better than larry bird.........well you fools know how that turned out...[/QUOTE]

I apologize. You clearly are simply just a total f*cking moron. I notice you edited out most of your post after I made my response. You are worthless.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=BMF21;227722]How is Vick overrated?....[/quote]

How is he not is the better question.

Check his numbers from last year, he made the Pro Bowl on his name alone. He had a pathetic year. His passing numbers are horrible. Great athlete, very average passer. He's an athlete playing QB, he scares no one in the pocket, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SKIN COLOR SO LET'S NOT EVEN GO THERE.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

I don't think that ST is overrated. He's issues in coverage because the scheme is ridiculous without Springs. How you put him one on one with Plax is insane. He should be floating to the ball, not covering guys one on one.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

How is ST over rated? He is known for his hard hits period and last I check he was still snot knocking people. When you speak of RW the only thing that comes to mind is his ability to chase down WR and horse collar tackle them. It got so bad they made up a new rule just for that which they really don't enforce.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Taylor is plenty talented enough to take on Burress one on one. I would take that matchup any day of the week, Burress got the best of him last week and that sort of thing is going to happen once in a while, but I guarantee that won't happen next time.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;227752]How is he not is the better question.

Check his numbers from last year, he made the Pro Bowl on his name alone. He had a pathetic year. His passing numbers are horrible. Great athlete, very average passer. He's an athlete playing QB, he scares no one in the pocket, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SKIN COLOR SO LET'S NOT EVEN GO THERE.[/QUOTE]

Vick is the single most over-rated player in the NFL. Amazing athlete, below average QB.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;227782]Taylor is plenty talented enough to take on Burress one on one. I would take that matchup any day of the week, Burress got the best of him last week and that sort of thing is going to happen once in a while, but I guarantee that won't happen next time.[/QUOTE]
To reiterate what has been said - it's the team, not the player.

And, yes, he will get beat occasionally. However, being omnipotent, he obviously is [b]letting[/b] himself get beat, so that he can instill the other team with a false sense of confidence. When he breaks them down later, it hurts them all that much more.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

who said that Jordan was better than bird? you could probably get a decent argument both ways. Vick is a media creation. not really a bona fide NFL quarterback, just a superior athlete that makes plays. bmf, do you really think the falcons can win a super bowl with Vick? he is way too inaccurate a passer for playoff football. when the line gets stacked and he has to throw, he is finished. and i dont think color has anything to do with it. in my opinion, mcnabb is the best qback in the league, right now

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=FRPLG;227751]I apologize. You clearly are simply just a total f*cking moron. I notice you edited out most of your post after I made my response. You are worthless.[/quote]

Sweet you made my day sweet heart........you think I care what you think, snow fright......no I don't everyone on this site, is tough behind those words............ and I edited, not because of tralior trash like you, because I chose too, if you didnt have something to talk about, you live in the past on how great.......your athletes use to be.........

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

True Vick isnt a stand in the pocket Qb but, he has great impact on his team, lets not pretend that we woke up in 06, and the world was equal, its just like baseball, you think america cared about steriods, when Mark McGuire was hitting home runs, hell no as long as a Whiteman was breaking a whitemans record it was hush, hush, as soon as a Blackman Barry Bonds, broke that record, the f*cking federal goverment gets involved, thats a bunch of crock, just like, if your not Peyton or Brady or Palmer, then your not a real QB,.... Vick doesn't have to have #'s and probably will never have #'s like Peyton, but his impact to the game is well documented..... Great as Peyton Manning is, he haven't won a damn superbowl either........Its overrated to try to compare any Black QB to a white QB, his style works for him and his coaching staff, and everytime someone, says Vick is not this or that, I think.....shited, your just saying that to put him on a lower level, because he doesnt ball, like you think he should........#'s just dont make you great, your impact on the game does, Vick is a trans player, changing the style of the postiton......and there nothing overrated about that....................

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Someone please tell me this guy is drunk or something...lol
Ya know buddy, correct capitalization/spelling/grammar goes a long way in making your point. That post hurt my eyes to read it was so badly written...tighten up homie, tighten up...

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;227942]Someone please tell me this guy is drunk or something...lol
Ya know buddy, correct capitalization/spelling/grammar goes a long way in making your point. That post hurt my eyes to read it was so badly written...tighten up homie, tighten up...[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I was afraid of saying anything about that because I thought he'd go racial on me for mentioning his bad grammer. Hey, BMF, if you want people to respect your opinion on this board you need to understand two things. First your posts should be legible so that people can understand what you are trying to say and second, you have to respect the fact that other people don't always agree with you. If you can't do that then this isn't the place for you.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=BMF21;227941]Its overrated to try to compare any Black QB to a white QB[/quote]

You're the one making this a race issue. Nobody is comparing colors, we're comparing styles of QB. Vick is a great athlete and nobody is denying his impact, the Falcons are a much better team with him than without him.

We're talking about whether he's a good QB or not, and sorry he just doesn't have the passing skills that the majority of the league has.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

It is impossible to discuss McNabb or Vick without someone going THERE.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=70Chip;227965]It is impossible to discuss McNabb or Vick without someone going THERE.[/quote]

I don't care if McNabb is black yellow green or purple. He is the general on two of my fantasy teams and in my opinion he is the best QB in the league.

Yes, even better than Manning. If McNabb had the EDGE, Harrison and Wayne he would probably have multiple rings right now.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;227967]I don't care if McNabb is black yellow green or purple. He is the general on two of my fantasy teams and in my opinion he is the best QB in the league.

Yes, even better than Manning. If McNabb had the EDGE, Harrison and Wayne he would probably have multiple rings right now.[/quote]

And if I were married to Eva Longoria, I could get into Hollywood parties. I really wish these Eagle fans would choose the appropriate avatar.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=70Chip;227968]And if I were married to Eva Longoria, I could get into Hollywood parties. I really wish these Eagle fans would choose the appropriate avatar.[/quote]

If you ever call me an Eagles fan again I will track you down. Just because I can actually judge talent on an objective basis you insult me.

Do you want to meet somewhere before the game tomorrow?

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;227969]If you ever call me an Eagles fan again I will track you down.[/quote]


Withdrawn.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

If you were to rate Eagles fans vs. the general population I would say they come out somewhere between petty criminal and habitual felon.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

snow fright? who's the racist now?

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;227213]I think 21 CAN cover almost any WR in the league. IF he was playing straight coverage. His problem is that he has to play coverage and run. Against any decent 1 or even 2 in this league heaping the responsibility on one guy makes it pretty easy to pop open. If he lined up at CB he'd be a pretty decent corner. But he can't do both well at the same time. It isn't physically possible to protect against the run while staying in coverage against a guy like Burress.[/QUOTE]

I think Redskins21's coverage skills are a little suspect. Look back to the Giants game for the move Buress put on him when they were one on one. Dallas31's coverage skills are even more suspect.

However, Dallas 31 has much better hands and so makes INTs more regularly. In that regard, he and Ed Reed are the best in the league.

While both are excellent against the run, Redskins21 simply has a gift of forcing fumbles from RBs. If they had an annual award for the best fumble forcer in the league, 21 would win hands down.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;227964]You're the one making this a race issue. Nobody is comparing colors, we're comparing styles of QB. Vick is a great athlete and nobody is denying his impact, the Falcons are a much better team with him than without him.

We're talking about whether he's a good QB or not, and sorry he just doesn't have the passing skills that the majority of the league has.[/quote]

and his passing skill along dosent make a good QB, you said it, his impact on the game......that position is changing......year by year, and isnt the majority of the league more white QB's.....than any other

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

MOS DEF

21 has a true god given gift for stripping that ball from the RB no matter who they are....now recovering that fumble going our way is what we need to work on

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=NY_Skinsfan;227959]Thank you. I was afraid of saying anything about that because I thought he'd go racial on me for mentioning his bad grammer. Hey, BMF, if you want people to respect your opinion on this board you need to understand two things. First your posts should be legible so that people can understand what you are trying to say and second, you have to respect the fact that other people don't always agree with you. If you can't do that then this isn't the place for you.[/quote]

how about this............ Sure whatever you say.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Yes.
Sure.
Whatever.
WE SAY.

LOL

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Found these numbers.

ER - Ed Reed
TP - Troy Polamalou (sp?)
ST - Sean Taylor
RW - Roy

Now I know ST and ER play FS but the numbers are interesting.

RW - 2 Picks, 5 Passes Defended, 14 Solo Tackles
ST - 0 Picks, 2 Passes Defended, 15 Solo Tackles
TP - 1 Pick, 4 Passes Defended, 14 Solo Tackles
ER - 1 Pick, 4 Passes Defended, 14 Solo Tackles

I don't know who else I would add to that list... Maybe Hope, or that dood in Arizona who is all over the place.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

We are not in the 50's anymore. Billion dollar franchises are in the business of making money and you make money by winning...they don't care about color. The NFL is 70% black, if anyone should be bitching it should be white guys. Last time I checked there are no premier white RBs or CBs in the league.


Vick sucks as a passer, lets move on and stop talking all of this nonsense about race.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

I think Taylor is not overrated, he is a dominant force on our defense. Anybody who demands respect from the opposing team, is doing his job. He might have gotten beat a few times, but who the hell hasn't? I think he plays hard on every down, what more can you ask. Has anybody else done more on the defense? And I think the orientals can be pretty pissed that they only have one super star in any professional sport, they have alot of catching up to do. don't worry about race.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Race shouldnt be an issue....
ST is a big force on our defense...the momentum swings WAY in our favor when the boths teams see him make a strip or hit a guy so hard he cant see str8 afterwards,,,,the man is a fucking train waiting to happen to a RB/WR....


CHOO CHOO!

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

There is only a handful of players in the league that play like Taylor, Roy Williams isn't one of them