Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Hesscl,

Brunell's stats are okay; he completes a high number of his passes, doesn't throw picks, and doesn't force plays. Moreover, he's playing behind a bad O-line.

HOWEVER, Brunell appears incapable of throwing more than 2 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Is it any wonder that teams do not respect our deep game? Brunell simply provides this team with NO spark. The guy is 36 and is taking us nowehere. I don't understand how anyone can honestly believe that Brunell isn't part of the problem.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=skinnyfan;232389]I hate Brunell as much as the next guy and think we should start Campbell's career now. But is it just me or do Samuels and Jansen look like they have concrete blocks around their feet? I mean Samuels must've held every other play today. Our line is just not good unless we are MAX FUCKING protecting. Brunell sucks, but our line is also very average.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. This was a bad game for Samuels, but he gets a pass because he has been pretty consistent this year and everyone is entitled to have an off day. On the other hand, Jansen has looked bad ALL season long. I'm starting to really wonder what is wrong with Jansen.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;232393]Agreed. This was a bad game for Samuels, but he gets a pass because he has been pretty consistent this year and everyone is entitled to have an off day. On the other hand, Jansen has looked bad ALL season long. I'm starting to really wonder what is wrong with Jansen.[/QUOTE]

Honestly though, I know Samuels didnt play well....but Freeney is one of the best (prob #2 behind Peppers) defensive ends in the league....why the hell did we leave Samuels out on an island with him and not give him any freaking help???

Especially after it was conistently happening for a half, why not have sellers chip him or somthing. Christ that pissed me off.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

With Brunell it's either one of two things:

He can't do what he's required to do according to the play called for the down so he 'panic-checks' to the nearest option.

The Coaches don't trust him to throw anywhere over 10 yards and so they modify the gameplan to stay conservative.

Either way you're never going to win a game with that plan unless the other team spots us 14 at the start.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;232391]Hesscl,

Brunell's stats are okay; he completes a high number of his passes, doesn't throw picks, and doesn't force plays. Moreover, he's playing behind a bad O-line.

HOWEVER, Brunell appears incapable of throwing more than 2 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Is it any wonder that teams do not respect our deep game? Brunell simply provides this team with NO spark. The guy is 36 and is taking us nowehere. I don't understand how anyone can honestly believe that Brunell isn't part of the problem.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]"He's playing behind a bad O ling".. exactly. Burrell may be part of the overall problem, but he wasn’t at fault today, and you cannot pin it on him. It's ego, period. It's about a team that thought they had it all and are disgusted that they cant' get it done. Well, life isn't easy. You either work for it or you are out.... Looks like "life" has bit the Skins right in the ass.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;232393]Agreed. This was a bad game for Samuels, but he gets a pass because he has been pretty consistent this year and everyone is entitled to have an off day. On the other hand, Jansen has looked bad ALL season long. I'm starting to really wonder what is wrong with Jansen.[/quote]


Totally agree with that.....hey....does anyone know what Lloyd was so hot about on the sideline today?? Besides us getting our ass handed to us and Brunell constantly throwing 4 yard passes on 3rd and 7.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Gmanc711;232396]Honestly though, I know Samuels didnt play well....but Freeney is one of the best (prob #2 behind Peppers) defensive ends in the league....why the hell did we leave Samuels out on an island with him and not give him any freaking help???

Especially after it was conistently happening for a half, why not have sellers chip him or somthing. Christ that pissed me off.[/quote]

Also when you're behind, those DEs can just tee off on our OTs. Samuels and Jansen are serviceable and better when they are not playing on their heels. In the Sanders offense they are just exposed more since we are not Max protecting anymore.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Stacks42;232362]Gibss is a retard, he just praised Brunell in the presser saying he "looked excellent" what game is he watching. Brunell F ing sucks! It was all over the WRs faces, they are frustrated, they are open and Brunell dumps it off to Portis or Betts over and over again. Its the QB that drives the offense, and Brunell cant do it anymore.[/quote]

I don't agree at all. Brunell is TRYING to do the right thing and throw to the best guy. He's not always on target but he does NOT suck. This is O line in my opinon, and secondary... that's the biggest problem.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=skinnyfan;232399]Totally agree with that.....hey....does anyone know what Lloyd was so hot about on the sideline today?? Besides us getting our ass handed to us and Brunell constantly throwing 4 yard passes on 3rd and 7.[/quote]

If I had to guess, I would say that the receivers are frustrated with being open and not getting the ball. Lloyd may have been told to hold his toungue by another player, I don't know, but I would be frustrated if I were those guys.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;232398][COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]"He's playing behind a bad O ling".. exactly. Burrell may be part of the overall problem, but he wasn’t at fault today, and you cannot pin it on him. It's ego, period. It's about a team that thought they had it all and are disgusted that they cant' get it done. Well, life isn't easy. You either work for it or you are out.... Looks like "life" has bit the Skins right in the ass.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Hess,
sorry, but that was the line for LAST week, you know when we lost to the 0-5 Titans?

i guarantee the Redskins weren't feeling overconfident in this game, this was the 5-0 Colts. even at half with the lead (thank god for Randle El).

The O-line can't be expected to give Brunell the kind of time he needs on every single play, because with Brunell's passing style it would take 10 passes to get 30yds unless the receivers break one.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

How can it not be DUDE's fault? Do you honestly think that 5 yd passes are enough to win in this copy cat league? If you do you're DRUNK! HAIL from MCUSA!

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;232405]I don't agree at all. Brunell is TRYING to do the right thing and throw to the best guy. He's not always on target but he does NOT suck. This is O line in my opinon, and secondary... that's the biggest problem.[/QUOTE]

huh? in that case Ladell is our best guy?

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;232405]I don't agree at all. Brunell is TRYING to do the right thing and throw to the best guy. He's not always on target but he does NOT suck. This is O line in my opinon, and secondary... that's the biggest problem.[/QUOTE]

Trying is right. He doesn't suck, but he's definately part of the problem.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

i don't blame brunell, we have a line problem, and a defense problem.

what i would like to see a change at QB just to spark the offense, why not give campbell the start?

the team just isnt fundamentaly sound, we miss tackles, the line does not consistently block for our running game.

Fundamentals...Fundamentals

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=NYCSkin;232402]Also when you're behind, those DEs can just tee off on our OTs. Samuels and Jansen are serviceable and better when they are not playing on their heels. In the Sanders offense they are just exposed more since we are not Max protecting anymore.[/quote]


I agree with the whole behind issue, but there was a protection problem from the start. They may not have sacked Brunell too often, but they sure as hell hurried him and with Brunell "a hurry" is just as good as a sack because he is scared to death to step up in the pocket and take a hit and too slow to run away from anyone. Our line, behind or not, is very average. They all bitched about smashmouth football all week and on Portis' first 7 carries he had 1 yard. And when we dropped back to pass Brunell had about 2.5 seconds to get rid of it. Our line is not good........period, no excuses for them. 3 points against the Giants, couldn't run on the Titans in the second half....avg. of 1.2 yards per carry in that game, and really couldn't run today until late when they scored a garbage TD and that came when the Colts were laying back and giving the underneath stuff up. With tackles like Samuels and Jansen they should be counted on for WAY more than just serviceable.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing but expecting a different result! He does suck. To quote the Jedi master Yoda," you do or you do not. There is no try!" Okay everyone, say it with me...............DUDE SUCKS! HAIL from MCUSA!

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Mc2guy;232407]If I had to guess, I would say that the receivers are frustrated with being open and not getting the ball. Lloyd may have been told to hold his toungue by another player, I don't know, but I would be frustrated if I were those guys.[/quote]

thats what I hope it is. I don't want to see Mark anymore.....really don't care if we win another game....just want to finally see what Campbell has.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

I am tired of blaming Brunell because it really isn't his fault. He is old and over the hill, can't run, can't pass but is still the best QB on our team.

You know who I blame, the man in Canton. This is his QB. Snyder prints money, if Gibbs had wanted Brees we would have Brees. Hell, I would rather have Kerry Collins over this washed up bible thumper who embarrasses Gibbs' legacy on a weekly basis.

This is Gibbs' bed and he has to lie in it.

It is not Brunell's fault. Does anyone blame him for signing the deal to come here? If your career was essentially over and somebody offered you 50 million, would you say, "No"?

WE HAVE THE ABSOLUTE WORST FRONT OFFICE IN F-ING FOOTBALL. Our team is shit. One big steaming pile of dog shit.

I am a die-hard fan of the Washiton Redshits and I am f@cking tired of it.

F@ck you SNYDER. F@CK YOU you 5'6" Napoleonic bitch.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Well the good news is that we are guaranteed not to lose next week.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

You got that shit right! HAIL from MCUSA!

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=illdefined;232408]Hess,
sorry, but that was the line for LAST week, you know when we lost to the 0-5 Titans?

i guarantee the Redskins weren't feeling overconfident in this game, this was the 5-0 Colts. even at half with the lead (thank god for Randle El).

The O-line can't be expected to give Brunell the kind of time he needs on every single play, because with Brunell's passing style it would take 10 passes to get 30yds unless the receivers break one.[/quote]

Right up unti 1/2 time. They go in feeling great and they come out stinking it up. ... It's ego. I'm convinced. But that's jut my opinon.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

The problem is that most of Brunel's completions are checkdowns and on TV it's impossible to know on how many of them did he have options down field that he is not taking advantage of.

Even if it's not Brunel's fault it's still time to see what Campbel can do.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=skinnyfan;232420]I agree with the whole behind issue, but there was a protection problem from the start. They may not have sacked Brunell too often, but they sure as hell hurried him and with Brunell "a hurry" is just as good as a sack because he is scared to death to step up in the pocket and take a hit and too slow to run away from anyone. Our line, behind or not, is very average. [B]They all bitched about smashmouth football all week and on Portis' first 7 carries he had 1 yard.[/B] And when we dropped back to pass Brunell had about 2.5 seconds to get rid of it. Our line is not good........period, no excuses for them. 3 points against the Giants, couldn't run on the Titans in the second half....avg. of 1.2 yards per carry in that game, and really couldn't run today until late when they scored a garbage TD and that came when the Colts were laying back and giving the underneath stuff up. With tackles like Samuels and Jansen they should be counted on for WAY more than just serviceable.[/QUOTE]

That's a great point right there. This offensive line is serviceable when things are going well. But when it's a dogfight, and the quarterback has to start winging it, forget it -- these guys fold.

And God help us if there's a fast defensive end lining up against Samuels. You said earlier skinnyfan, Chris Samuels could have been called for holding on just about every play.

Brunell is the obvious target, but the offensive line, especially with games like this, and the ones against the Giants and Cowboys, are a very close second in the categories that deserve serious blame.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=celts32;232440]The problem is that most of Brunel's completions are checkdowns and on TV it's impossible to know on how many of them did he have options down field that he is not taking advantage of.

Even if it's not Brunel's fault it's still time to see what Campbel can do.[/QUOTE]

I saw a few shots of both Cooley and Lloyd running wide open, watch Brunell throw to a back in the flats, and throw their hands up in the air in frustration. I also saw one such shot of Moss. I'd kill to get my hands on gamefilm and see which receivers were open and why Brunell couldn't get the ball downfield.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=mooby;232429]Well the good news is that we are guaranteed not to lose next week.[/quote]
Don't bet on it they will find a way to lose...but Gibbs will praise the effort.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

hey, lets start another HATS OFF TO BRUNELL thread: another game without an INT. way to go.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

I watched the post game interviews... I don't think its a positive ego thing.

We are not playing with the attitude we need to knock someone in the mouth and take a game away. I wasn't sure about this game, even though I was scared of the Titans.

We're not going to Campbell, which I think is a mistake. I would have to give him this year.

We're going to have a losing season this year, and IF campbell even starts next year we're going to have a year for him to get acclimated to the offense and playing with starters, which gives us another excuse...

Suggestions:

!) Fire Al Saunders. Keep a few of his plays, but send him on his way, or keep him as an advisor, but put the plays back in Gibbs hands.

2) Cut Archuleta. Troy Vincent will be our starter. He's old, but he's only had a week and knows our system better than Archuleta.

3) Bench Brunell and tie Todd Collins to the back of a moving Metro Train

4) Slap GW in the face and tell him if he doesn't start bringing pressure he's done, because anyone can play a cover 2 poorly on defense. Most AVERAGE defensive coaches demonstrate that regularly. Especially when you're playing a guy that has made a sure fire hall of fame career by picking apart zone covering D's that are scared to take guys out of coverage to rush him...

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=celts32;232440]The problem is that most of Brunel's completions are checkdowns and on TV it's impossible to know on how many of them did he have options down field that he is not taking advantage of.[/QUOTE]

Celts, I wondered the same thing last week. I don't go to the games, so you can't really tell if the wideouts are getting open or not on TV.

But someone on the radio had an interesting viewpoint on whether the WRs are getting open -- in the NFL, getting open usually means only half a step from the defender. In this league, you must have a quarterback who can zip the ball in tight places -- sometimes on their back foot under heavy pressure.

Brunell seems to be good for two types of passes: Short, controlled throws within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, or desperation heaves to Moss, many times relying only on luck or Moss' ability to adjust to the ball.

But we must be wrong, because Gibbs obviously sees it differently.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;232462]Celts, I wondered the same thing last week. I don't go to the games, so you can't really tell if the wideouts are getting open or not on TV.

But someone on the radio had an interesting viewpoint on whether the WRs are getting open -- in the NFL, getting open usually means only half a step from the defender. In this league, you must have a quarterback who can zip the ball in tight places -- sometimes on their back foot under heavy pressure.

Brunell seems to be good for two types of passes: Short, controlled throws within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, or desperation heaves to Moss, many times relying only on luck or Moss' ability to adjust to the ball.

But we must be wrong, because Gibbs obviously sees it differently.[/QUOTE]

I believe people were open,but it's hard to say for sure without the coaches tape. When they review these game tapes they know precisely how many opportunities Brunel missed yet he keeps starting games. So maybe it's not as many as we think it is. As much as we know Gibbs loves Brunel, I don't believe for a second he loves him more than winning.

My take on Brunel is that he's just not a difference maker anymore...he is capable of winning when the entire team plays well around him but incapable of winning when any phase of the team breaks down. He will never pull a game out of the fire for you when things aren't going well.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Beemnseven;232462]Celts, I wondered the same thing last week. I don't go to the games, so you can't really tell if the wideouts are getting open or not on TV.

But someone on the radio had an interesting viewpoint on whether the WRs are getting open -- in the NFL, getting open usually means only half a step from the defender. In this league, you must have a quarterback who can zip the ball in tight places -- sometimes on their back foot under heavy pressure.

Brunell seems to be good for two types of passes: Short, controlled throws within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, or desperation heaves to Moss, many times relying only on luck or Moss' ability to adjust to the ball.

But we must be wrong, because Gibbs obviously sees it differently.[/quote]

Gibbs does see it differently. But I think Saunders sees it like most of us--he doesn't want Brunell in there either. His offense does not have as it's primary read--the 5 yard checkdown. It is just that--a checkdown--that Brunell chooses time and time again. I can't imagine that the primary read is always covered...

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Beemnseven;232462]Celts, I wondered the same thing last week. I don't go to the games, so you can't really tell if the wideouts are getting open or not on TV.

But someone on the radio had an interesting viewpoint on whether the WRs are getting open -- in the NFL, getting open usually means only half a step from the defender. In this league, you must have a quarterback who can zip the ball in tight places -- sometimes on their back foot under heavy pressure.

Brunell seems to be good for two types of passes: Short, controlled throws within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, or desperation heaves to Moss, many times relying only on luck or Moss' ability to adjust to the ball.

But we must be wrong, because Gibbs obviously sees it differently.[/quote]
The worst part of the offense isn't Brunell, it's the shoddy play of our supposedly studly O-line. They have regressed badly since the late season playoff run. Give Brunell a pocket that he can step up in, and he can still throw a decent deep ball. The 50 yard throw to Lloyd last week was a thing of beauty. My biggest knock on Brunell would be his tunnel vision for Moss and Cooley, but he did a better job utilizing ARE and Lloyd today. Bottom line, when the O-line protects more consistently, our QB will be able to get the ball downfield.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Down by 20 pts in the fourth, you may want to take a couple of shots downfield, or at least past the first down line,

or hell the line of scrimmage?

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Let's face it guys, there's a whole lot wrong with this football team, so much so I wouldn't know where to start fixing it. You're right it's not Brunell's fault, it' the coaching staff's fault for continuing to put him out there. The coaching staff is responsible for a great deal thas wrong with this team, too much has been invested for the results we're seeing.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;232462]Celts, I wondered the same thing last week. I don't go to the games, so you can't really tell if the wideouts are getting open or not on TV. [/QUOTE]

And I have season tickets and have been to every home game this year and I still can't tell if people are always open. I see sometimes where they are open and he misfires or doesn't see the guy, but when I watch the offense my eyes are usually fixated on the backfield to see what they are doing with the ball. I usually don't look at the WR's unless the ball goes to them. I just can't train my eyes to see everything and i can't bring myself to miss a play so i can watch just the WR's. I would love for someone to fill me in on how to watch everything at the same time.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;232471]Down by 20 pts in the fourth, you may want to take a couple of shots downfield, or at least past the first down line,

or hell the line of scrimmage?[/QUOTE]

no, instead we should keep throwing to our 'deep threat' who had the *most* receptions in the game, and was 2 yds shy of being our number one receiver.

LADELL BETTS.


yes, the backup runningback.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;232462]Celts, I wondered the same thing last week. I don't go to the games, so you can't really tell if the wideouts are getting open or not on TV.

But someone on the radio had an interesting viewpoint on whether the WRs are getting open -- in the NFL, getting open usually means only half a step from the defender. In this league, you must have a quarterback who can zip the ball in tight places -- sometimes on their back foot under heavy pressure.

Brunell seems to be good for two types of passes: Short, controlled throws within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, or desperation heaves to Moss, many times relying only on luck or Moss' ability to adjust to the ball.

But we must be wrong, because Gibbs obviously sees it differently.[/QUOTE]

The only game I've been to where Brunell was the starter. That was the opener. The game against Minnesota. When I openly admitted that I booed the team. It was directed at Brunell. Why? Because I saw them in the red zone with Cooley or Moss (happened on 2 occasions) running free across the back of the end zone and all it would have taken was a little mustard on the ball for 6. What does he do? Throws it away once and takes a sack the other time. That's why I was booing the team in week 1. I know these guys can get open. You don't just forget how to do that this year. The ball's not getting there. Why else would Lloyd be flipping out?

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Another thing...the only time he did throw in the middle of the field the ball was up. The Skins receivers aren't big enough to take shots from safeties because Mark's hanging them out to dry. He keeps throwing like that, they're gonna get their heads knocked off.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

I remember at one point in the first half Brunell was 10 of 15 with ?? yards. Then they gave the sacks/hurries numbers. There were 10 hurries. That means, in spite of all the dump-offs, he only had 5 unpressured passes. So can you try to go downfield if your OLine is so weak that you get pressured doing just short dump-offs? My feeling is that Saunders doesn't call the downfield plays because he doesn't trust the OLine to hold up long enough. And remember all those holding penalties? There's a lot more of them when the line has to pass protect for more time.

As far as pulling Brunell, I don't see it until we're (practically) mathematically eliminated. As it currently stands:
Philly: we have 2 more losses and we play them twice
Dallas and NY: After tomorrow, we will be 2 losses behind one and 3 behind the other, with one home game against each.
So we're not exactly out of it yet. But if we continue to play the way we have been...

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

come on its not mark fault the receivers are small. They have to grow over the bye week and get tuffer

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

I have an idea: tackle the guy with the f-ing ball. And enough with the stupid penalties. Brunell didn't contribute to either of those factors in losing the game. And somehow Greg Williams doesn't seem to get enough blame. We give up almost 25 points a game! JC, Brunell or whoever, we ain't winning too many games with that type of D.

And someone please put Arculetta and Samuels out of their misery. They're done.