Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=Paintrain;233163]QB because he can affect the defense. By consistently going 3 and out and/or not gaining the field position advantage the defense is being put in difficult positions or worn down late in games. Now they need to step up a little and perform but they also need the offense to carry it's weight. By getting turnovers it's a bonus to the offense if the defense makes a play but the offense HAS to help the defense.[/quote]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][B]What does field position have to do with shutting down an opponent’s offense? Three an out can happen in between the Skins 49 and 40 yard line.[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman'][B]There hasn’t been that many opponents drive that started inside the Skins 40.[/B][/FONT]

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

I posted this in another thread, but in the Colts, Giants, Cowboys, and Vikings games, the offense scored a total of 37 points! That's about 9 points per game!

BTW, the defense is worse.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

It's the defense. 22 points would have been enough to win most games in 04 or 05. They are a below average group, injuries notwithstanding.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=61cad;233192][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][B]What does field position have to do with shutting down an opponent’s offense? Three an out can happen in between the Skins 49 and 40 yard line.[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman'][B]There hasn’t been that many opponents drive that started inside the Skins 40.[/B][/FONT][/QUOTE]
Couldn't find a bigger or darker font? ;-)
Without absolving the defense of responsibility, there is a big difference in defending 80 yards than 45 yards. Drives don't have to start at our 40 but if you get the ball at the 20, gain 7 yards, punt and they start their possession at the 35-40 yard line that's a huge advantage vs. if you have to punt, punting from midfield or a little beyond, worse case they'll start at the 20.. Plus 3 and outs don't build any offensive rhythm and let their defense remain fresh while ours tires from being on the field all day.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Defense. I want to see Jason Campbell and see what he can do, but our biggest problem is defense.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=illdefined;233078]good analogy Stacks

cept, this boxer is a southpaw and it's the left hand that's broken.[/quote]

YES you are correct sir! my bad, damn lefties get you ever time!

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG!
What is the recurring theme in the recurring nightmare of the last decade and a half? Our quarterbacks SUCK! Get a good QB. Period. If it´s not JC then find someone. FAST. Do not stop until you have a very good player there. It doesn´t matter if we use every pick for every draft for the next hundred years. Or trade every draft pick for one proven stud free agent. (But nobody trades franchise QB´s. You wanna know why? Because it´s the most important part of the team. How many picks would it take to get Peyton Manning? Carson Palmer? Tom Brady? Donovan McNabb? We could offer CP, Cooley, Moss, and Marcus Washington the Grim reaper and the next five drafts and they would say, "No thanks.") We could fix our D, be top 5 in D, and still not make the playoffs or lose early. Get a QB, take a deep sigh of relief, and build the team.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

If our defense was what is was last year we would be scoring enough pointage to win

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=Redskin;233299]If our defense was what is was last year we would be scoring enough pointage to win[/quote]


YESSIR!!!!!!!!!!

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=TenandSix:Unacceptable;233291]ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG!
[/QUOTE]

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

I don't know how anyone can say that BOTH units aren't at fault.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

5 Yard passes on 3rd and long(9 yds. or more), are you kidding me? Maybe if the offense ,which is lead by the play of the quarterback, could actually sustain drives, the defense wouldn't get exposed the way it has been. WTTF?! Why have the weapons, when he won't use them? If we had a QB change, maybe it would provide the spark the entire team needs. Cause it's gonna take a hell of a lot more than CP's characters to pull us out of this hole! HAIL from MCUSA!

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

check CP's interview on Redskins.com. he is PISSED. he kinda mumbles it, but he says it. "everyone isn't getting the ball". he's not talking about himself, CP got plenty of touches last game.... as a dump off.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

This is a no brainer. We limped into the playoffs with a killer D and no QB last year. However, I'd like to see both get fixed.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Yeah, it is a no-brainer question... the D is the biggest problem. Trent dilfer got to and won a superbowl, and Mark Brunell COULD do it as well. I know he could and everyone else calling for CAmpbell probably knows he could, too, but he wont. He's not doing what we need him to do right now and its time for him to go.

The biggest reason (other than the fact that he's not winning, or putting us in a position late in games to be competitive) is that we're going to have to move on and we gave up 2 fucking first round picks for a QB that we're going to take a step back when we put him in... do it now, when he can get into a rythm of the offense with the rest of the offense. Maybe he'll provide a spark?

Maybe some of the younger guys will step up and play better to support him. Maybe he'll sustain drives by not checking down to the backfield as quickly, or getting out of trouble in the backfield by running and keeping a spy from blitzing...

The D definately needs to be fixed and should be TOP priority, but I do think its time to go to campbell.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=Paintrain;233237]Couldn't find a bigger or darker font? ;-)
Without absolving the defense of responsibility, there is a big difference in defending 80 yards than 45 yards. Drives don't have to start at our 40 but if you get the ball at the 20, gain 7 yards, punt and they start their possession at the 35-40 yard line that's a huge advantage vs. if you have to punt, punting from midfield or a little beyond, worse case they'll start at the 20.. Plus 3 and outs don't build any offensive rhythm and let their defense remain fresh while ours tires from being on the field all day.[/quote]

Causing 3 and outs is huge! If you stop an offense anywhere on a 3 and out you will and should control the games tempo.

I don't care if the 3 and out happens at your 20. It should equate to a low scoring game. In low scoring games, typically the better defense wins.

Your logic makes no sense. 3 and out is a defensive victory. 3 tries for 1st down, you don't make it and you're kicking the ball!

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[I][I]Quote:
Originally Posted by [B]TenandSix:Unacceptable[/B] [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/15165-qb-defense-whats-bigger-problem-post233291.html#post233291"][IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL]
[I]ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG![/I]

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?[/I]
[I] [/I]
[I] [/I]
[/I]
[I]Have you been paying attention to football teams with good QB´s?[/I]
[I] [/I]
[I]Essentially because of Joe Gibbs and Trent Dilfer, some people actually try to win without a franchise QB. Let´s look back at the last 20 years or so, shall we? Who wins superbowls?[/I]
[I] [/I]
[I]Ben Rothlisberger[/I]
[I]Brady times three[/I]
[I]Brad Johnson[/I]
[I]Trent Dilfer[/I]
[I]Kurt Warner[/I]
[I]John Elway times two[/I]
[I]Brett Favre[/I]
[I]Troy Aikman times three[/I]
[I]Steve Young[/I]
[I]Mark Rypien[/I]
[I]Jeff Hostetler[/I]
[I]Joe Montana times two[/I]
[I]Doug Williams[/I]
[I]Phil Simms[/I]
[I] [/I]
[I]Now, my point is, that out of the last twenty SB winners, 15 were won with franchise QB´s. That´s 75%. It´s no coincidence that the teams with franchise QB´s are consistantly in it, year after year. The Redskins QB´s, Rypien and Williams, had solid if not spectacular careers, but had incredible SB performances. Dilfer is another QB on the list who had done very little else in his career. Hostetler and Johnson had solid careers but weren´t franchise QB´s. Warner is the lowest rated in my opinion out of the Franchise group. But he went again two years later and lost in an upset to a young guy named Brady. He bloomed late, and luckily for the Rams they cut him as soon as his skills had diminished. To me, what most of you are trying to say is that you´d rather take the Gibbsian approach to winning. Build the team around the QB first thinking that we can win it with a servicable QB who gets hot as the team around him peaks. Obviously, as Gibbs is our coach again, it makes sense to me and has the ring of foolishness to suggest otherwise. However, just imagine if we had a franchise QB? Would you trade that player for all the players and the members of the coaching staff of the #1 defense in the league? Do you trade Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for the Bears D? Absolutely not. [/I]
[I] [/I]
[I]Let me repeat that: ABSOLUTELY NOT![/I]
[I] [/I]
[I]So, my point is that it all starts with a QB. Perhaps in other places the need is not quite as dire as it is here for us here in Skinsland. We haven´t had a franchise QB for decades and it is time to make that priority number one.[/I]
[I] [/I]
[I] [/I]

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Well, since you used italics...

It really doesn't matter what a franchise QB does in the playoffs if you can't get there. We can't expect to win games if our D doesn't show up. I'd like to see both addressed, but, if I had to pick one (realizing that only fixing one is insufficient to win the SB), I'll take the D.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;233318]I don't know how anyone can say that BOTH units aren't at fault.[/quote]I guess anytime any team loses, both units are at fault. The offense isn't playing well enough to pick up our shitty defense, so they cannot be completely absolved of blame.

But if you were to assign blame, I'd put about 80% on the D, and about 15% on the O with the remaining 5% on the inconsistent kicking game. Out of the 15% assigned the offense, about 10% of that is inconsistent line play, and the remaining 5% is a combination of Brunell inaccuracies with questionable Saunders playcalling.

It bothers me that this question needs to be asked.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;233381][I][I]Quote:[/I]
[I]Originally Posted by [B]TenandSix:Unacceptable[/B] [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/15165-qb-defense-whats-bigger-problem-post233291.html#post233291"][IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL] [/I]
[I][I]ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG. [/I]
[I]DEAD WRONG![/I]

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?[/I]


[/I]
[I]Have you been paying attention to football teams with good QB´s?[/I]

[I]Essentially because of Joe Gibbs and Trent Dilfer, some people actually try to win without a franchise QB. Let´s look back at the last 20 years or so, shall we? Who wins superbowls?[/I]

[I]Ben Rothlisberger[/I]
[I]Brady times three[/I]
[I]Brad Johnson[/I]
[I]Trent Dilfer[/I]
[I]Kurt Warner[/I]
[I]John Elway times two[/I]
[I]Brett Favre[/I]
[I]Troy Aikman times three[/I]
[I]Steve Young[/I]
[I]Mark Rypien[/I]
[I]Jeff Hostetler[/I]
[I]Joe Montana times two[/I]
[I]Doug Williams[/I]
[I]Phil Simms[/I]

[I]Now, my point is, that out of the last twenty SB winners, 15 were won with franchise QB´s. That´s 75%. It´s no coincidence that the teams with franchise QB´s are consistantly in it, year after year. The Redskins QB´s, Rypien and Williams, had solid if not spectacular careers, but had incredible SB performances. Dilfer is another QB on the list who had done very little else in his career. Hostetler and Johnson had solid careers but weren´t franchise QB´s. Warner is the lowest rated in my opinion out of the Franchise group. But he went again two years later and lost in an upset to a young guy named Brady. He bloomed late, and luckily for the Rams they cut him as soon as his skills had diminished. To me, what most of you are trying to say is that you´d rather take the Gibbsian approach to winning. Build the team around the QB first thinking that we can win it with a servicable QB who gets hot as the team around him peaks. Obviously, as Gibbs is our coach again, it makes sense to me and has the ring of foolishness to suggest otherwise. However, just imagine if we had a franchise QB? Would you trade that player for all the players and the members of the coaching staff of the #1 defense in the league? Do you trade Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for the Bears D? Absolutely not. [/I]

[I]Let me repeat that: ABSOLUTELY NOT![/I]

[I]So, my point is that it all starts with a QB. Perhaps in other places the need is not quite as dire as it is here for us here in Skinsland. We haven´t had a franchise QB for decades and it is time to make that priority number one.[/I]

[/quote]Well said. I'd like to add, all of those QB's also had something else in common. They all Could and did throw the Deep ball for big plays. Our QB either can't make the throws down field, or won't make them. Regardless if he has no confidence or what ever the excuse is this week, he's not gettin' it done. Time for a change! HAIL from MCUSA!

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

I can only dream of what it would be like to have a franchise QB! I vote that QB is the biggest problem without a doubt. This Defense has really fallen apart from a high level in a short period, but the QB makes such a huge difference all by himself. A great QB is about as important as an entire defense and we certainly don't need an entirely new defense. I'm surprised so many people think it is the D that is the biggest concern. I guess some Redskins fans are just so used to this mediocre QB play. Not that these guys grow on trees, but find a great QB please please please.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;233381][I][I]Quote:[/I]
[I]Originally Posted by [B]TenandSix:Unacceptable[/B] [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/15165-qb-defense-whats-bigger-problem-post233291.html#post233291"][IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL] [/I]
[I][I]ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG. [/I]
[I]DEAD WRONG![/I]

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?[/I]


[/I]
[I]Have you been paying attention to football teams with good QB´s?[/I]

[I]Essentially because of Joe Gibbs and Trent Dilfer, some people actually try to win without a franchise QB. Let´s look back at the last 20 years or so, shall we? Who wins superbowls?[/I]

[I]Ben Rothlisberger[/I]
[I]Brady times three[/I]
[I]Brad Johnson[/I]
[I]Trent Dilfer[/I]
[I]Kurt Warner[/I]
[I]John Elway times two[/I]
[I]Brett Favre[/I]
[I]Troy Aikman times three[/I]
[I]Steve Young[/I]
[I]Mark Rypien[/I]
[I]Jeff Hostetler[/I]
[I]Joe Montana times two[/I]
[I]Doug Williams[/I]
[I]Phil Simms[/I]

[I]Now, my point is, that out of the last twenty SB winners, 15 were won with franchise QB´s. That´s 75%. It´s no coincidence that the teams with franchise QB´s are consistantly in it, year after year. The Redskins QB´s, Rypien and Williams, had solid if not spectacular careers, but had incredible SB performances. Dilfer is another QB on the list who had done very little else in his career. Hostetler and Johnson had solid careers but weren´t franchise QB´s. Warner is the lowest rated in my opinion out of the Franchise group. But he went again two years later and lost in an upset to a young guy named Brady. He bloomed late, and luckily for the Rams they cut him as soon as his skills had diminished. To me, what most of you are trying to say is that you´d rather take the Gibbsian approach to winning. Build the team around the QB first thinking that we can win it with a servicable QB who gets hot as the team around him peaks. Obviously, as Gibbs is our coach again, it makes sense to me and has the ring of foolishness to suggest otherwise. However, just imagine if we had a franchise QB? Would you trade that player for all the players and the members of the coaching staff of the #1 defense in the league? Do you trade Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for the Bears D? Absolutely not. [/I]

[I]Let me repeat that: ABSOLUTELY NOT![/I]

[I]So, my point is that it all starts with a QB. Perhaps in other places the need is not quite as dire as it is here for us here in Skinsland. We haven´t had a franchise QB for decades and it is time to make that priority number one.[/I]

[/quote]Franchise QBs don't grow on trees.

You have a chance with Campbell, but if he doesn't end up being a great player, you will have to satisfied with above average QB play for a long time. Or just complain a lot, whatever floats your boat.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

it's funny.

last year we needed an O to go with our stellar D. we need new players and a new system to open it up.

this year, in my opinion, the offense is doing okay. now though, we need a new fucking D to hold opponents to under TWENTY fucking points.

what a turnaround. i know one TD was in garbage time. last year though, we score 21+, we win.

ugh.

damn redskins will break your heart.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

I cannot believe that we haven't had a franchise QB since Joey T. Brad Johnson was decent, but we didn't have him that long. Trent Green was good for a season. Rich Gannon wasn't great until he left Washington. I think we're due for a good QB.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

definantly the qb... why?

Because all teams line 9 in the box and dare us to throw it deep and we can't. Brunnell cannont convert when it counts and causes the d to stay on the field for long periods of time. the d is bad but brunnel is worst

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;233454]definantly the qb... why?

Because all teams line 9 in the box and dare us to throw it deep and we can't. Brunnell cannont convert when it counts and causes the d to stay on the field for long periods of time. the d is bad but brunnel is worst[/quote]

What causes the d to stay on the field is the fact that they can't stop the other team. They are average at best against the run. Horrible in coverage and can't rush the passer. Brunnel can be criticized for a lot of things but I think blaming him for the way the defense has played is a bit much.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=70Chip;233230]It's the defense. 22 points would have been enough to win most games in 04 or 05. They are a below average group, injuries notwithstanding.[/quote]

well, for that game it was a garbage TD against prevent, and you need a LOT of points to beat peyton (usually). in our losses, our offense hasn't been getting it done either, even though the jacksonville, houston, and end of the indy game pad the stats. 3 of those 4 games weren't even close on either side of the ball.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

What makes a quarterback a "Franchise QB"? Is there some definition?

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;233523]What makes a quarterback a "Franchise QB"? Is there some definition?[/quote]

i guess someone who can keep you in games and doesn't make a ton of stupid mistakes, can make all the throws, and can make something out of nothing every so often. starting young is another part of it, since you have to be around a while playing at a high level relative to league average.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

This thread misses the point. We can't do anything about our defense other than hope they get better. At QB, we at least have options.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;233523]What makes a quarterback a "Franchise QB"? Is there some definition?[/QUOTE]

[url]http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/images/jelway.jpg[/url]

case closed.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

DEFENSE!! We managed to win some games down the stretch with less than par play from the QB last year. Defense is by far our biggest problem. Hopefully this bye week will help get some people healthy, and help some people LEARN the defense. (Arch!!) I just go back to when Taylor was injured a game or two last year and see how teams take advantage of us deep. They are doing the same thing with Arch, but he is healthy!! If he can start to play knowledgable football, i think it will make a big difference. Springs should come back after the bye week almost 100%, rogers back, Griffin back, Joe back. We should have everyone back and healthy and get back to our aggressive attacking D.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;233408]I cannot believe that we haven't had a franchise QB since Joey T. Brad Johnson was decent, but we didn't have him that long. Trent Green was good for a season. Rich Gannon wasn't great until he left Washington. I think we're due for a good QB.[/QUOTE]

How can the skins ever get a franchise QB when the give away draft picks like Xmas presents.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;233570][url]http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/images/jelway.jpg[/url]

case closed.[/QUOTE]

Um thanks. Does anyone else have a clearer definition? And I loved Joey T when he was playing here, but is he really a franchise qb? Not that I even know what franchise qb means anyway

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=That Guy;233551]i guess someone who can keep you in games and doesn't make a ton of stupid mistakes, can make all the throws, and can make something out of nothing every so often. starting young is another part of it, since you have to be around a while playing at a high level relative to league average.[/quote]

This is a pretty good representation of a franchise quarterback. Also, being on the team for five plus seasons, without any chance of a quarterback controversy.

As far as the bigger problem, it's definitely the defense. Quarterback is a big problem, but at least there's options with that situation. The defense on the other hand, has far too many holes. The defensive backs are beat up, and Archuleta is a liability in coverage. The sad part is they're probably the best tacklers on the defense. Outside of Marcus Washington, the linebackers are garbage. Holdman can't tackle a a pillow, and I don't care how good Marshall is at calling the defense. He's almost completely ineffective without Griffin and Salave'a in front of him. The line hasn't been able to generate a pass rush in six seasons, but according to many people here, that's the scheme. The scheme must be flawed too, because it seems like even when they rush eight people, every single one of them gets picked up...

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Well.....

I think I have to go defense. QB is a huge huge problem, but if our defense was playing like it had been the past two years, I think we are 4-3 right now at least, with wins over Minnesota and Tenn, even with Brunell playing the quarterback position. So in the grand scheme of things, the defense is a much bigger problem....

But QB is still a pretty damn big problem.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Doesn't matter much now. Gibbs came out and said he doesn't see fit to make a change yet. So we have to wait for the defense to heal and step it up.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Geez - maybe Gibbs saw the poll results of this thread, and took our suggestion!

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;233010]I'd say it's gotta be the D. We can't stop anyone right now. I'm still trying to figure out how Travis Henry nearly ran for a buck eighty on us.

If the D was their usual top 10 self, I think we could be at least 4-3 right now and right in the thick of things.

As it stands right now, even with a change at QB it's not going to matter much as long as we're giving up yardage by the mile. Even if we had someone like Peyton Manning, he would have to win every game in a shootout because right now the D can't be counted on at all.

The D is now ranked near the bottom of the league, it's sad to see really.[/QUOTE]


You could not be more RIGHT. The offense has problems, but Brunell (QB) has not been the real issue. Play calling is just as much an issue for the offense.

The defense cannot stop anything rightn now. It was the pass at first, but now they are missing tackles and letting 7 yard runs turn into 30 yard runs. The Defense has got to find a way to hold other teams to less points.

Saunders has got to put the ball in Portis' hands more. He was averaging 4 yards per touch before last week. So every three touches, another first down. Joe, please take over play calling !!!!!!!!

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=tjmorgan;233700]You could not be more RIGHT. The offense has problems, but Brunell (QB) has not been the real issue. Play calling is just as much an issue for the offense.

The defense cannot stop anything rightn now. It was the pass at first, but now they are missing tackles and letting 7 yard runs turn into 30 yard runs. The Defense has got to find a way to hold other teams to less points.

Saunders has got to put the ball in Portis' hands more. He was averaging 4 yards per touch before last week. So every three touches, another first down. Joe, please take over play calling !!!!!!!![/QUOTE]
How quickly we forget. We saw the playcalling under Gibbs with Brunell at QB toward the end of last season. It was not a dynamic high powered offense. We all piled on Portis's back, and relied on the D to keep the other team off the field.

So, what's changed? We added offensive weapons and a new system. The D has started to suck. You can blame Brunell or you can blame Saunders, but I think it comes down to Brunell not having the tools to do what Saunders wants to do with this offense.