Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=TheBloodSkin;235008]This is my first post, but I have been viewing the site for a few years now. It's good to be able to rejoice together and spew together. With that said, everyone knows Brunell is on his way out as starter whether it be this season or (MY God) hopefully next. Spending time trying to get him to learn this season (2-5) will result in Campbell taking all of next season trying to get acclimated to the system. When does the madness stop????????? WE MUST SEE IF CAMPBELL IS THE MAN FOR THE JOB OR NOT!!![/QUOTE]

Welcome.

And I could not agree more. Such a waste of time. Get Cambell in there now.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42;235057]In Trent Greens first season in this offense he had 51 plays over 20yds and 12 over 40yds, NFL.com doesnt show how many 3yd dump off passes to the rb he had but I am positive that it is nowhere near the amount that MB has.[/QUOTE]
In 2000 (Green's first season for the Rams as starter), Marshall Faulk had 81 receptions for 830 yards. 6 of those 81 were 20+, 2 of those were 40+, and he had 42 first downs. Which would lead me to believe that around half of his receptions were less than 10 yards.

([url=http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/2000-stl]Here are the stats from the 2000 Rams[/url])

As you said, Trent Green's first season in Saunders' offense, he struggled, and I would expect any QB who is going from one system to Saunders to struggle.

However, I think Brunell's struggles stem from the fact that he's honed in on Santana and Cooley moreso than anyone else, and doesn't feel comfortable spreading the ball around.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;235089]Yeah but in the end it has the same result if not worse. He takes far too many sacks and doesn't look for a dumpoff at all, or he forces the issue and throws a horrible pick.

Brunell either dumps it off or throws it away. At least he doesn't force the issue or take too many sacks.

I'm not saying either way is particularly effective, but sacks and turnovers are the quickest way to the bench as we've seen.[/QUOTE]

totally agree. age is the real problem. and i especially agree with what longtimefan just said about Brunell's legs.

there's a point where the mental advantage of being a vet is overcome by the disadvantage of being older. see Favre.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Here's a simple solution: [I]Brunell's habit of dropping into the pocket, scanning the field and then [B]patting the football[/B] has disrupted the timing of the offense [/I]

Buy him a puppy, sit his ass down on the bench and let him pat the puppy on the sideline. Start Campbell.

Oh, and DON'T let TAFKAS kick said puppy, cos he will, you know.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat;235101]Here's a simple solution: [I]Brunell's habit of dropping into the pocket, scanning the field and then [B]patting the football[/B] has disrupted the timing of the offense [/I]

Buy him a puppy, sit his ass down on the bench and let him pat the puppy on the sideline. Start Campbell.

Oh, and DON'T let TAFKAS kick said puppy, cos he will, you know.[/QUOTE]

Daseal kicks the puppies. I just hold them a la Lucy Van Pelt

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Tafkas and I are a tag team. I have the leg of a healthy Shane Lechler, and Tafkas has the long snapping ability of Ethan Albright (BTW, Tafkas. Fucked up what madden did to you!)

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Shane 'Hannibal' Lechler?

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;235092]In 2000 (Green's first season for the Rams as starter), Marshall Faulk had 81 receptions for 830 yards. 6 of those 81 were 20+, 2 of those were 40+, and he had 42 first downs. Which would lead me to believe that around half of his receptions were less than 10 yards.

([URL="http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/2000-stl"]Here are the stats from the 2000 Rams[/URL])

As you said, Trent Green's first season in Saunders' offense, he struggled, and I would expect any QB who is going from one system to Saunders to struggle.

However, I think Brunell's struggles stem from the fact that he's honed in on Santana and Cooley moreso than anyone else, and doesn't feel comfortable spreading the ball around.[/quote]

saunder's didn't run the rams offense (WR coach is NOT an OC, and he didn't call the plays). martz did (with help from vermeil, btw). trent green's stats from 2000 are for martz.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Right, that was in response to the amount of dumpoffs in the 2000 season.

The next season, 2001, when Vermeil cried his way to Kansas City, he took Saunders and made him O Coordinator, and then got Trent Green...so 2001 was Green's first season in Saunders' offense. I should have been more precise, but got lazy and hit submit before reading it over for the 903rd time ;)

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;235089]Yeah but in the end it has the same result if not worse. He takes far too many sacks and doesn't look for a dumpoff at all, or he forces the issue and throws a horrible pick.

Brunell either dumps it off or throws it away. At least he doesn't force the issue or take too many sacks.

I'm not saying either way is particularly effective, but sacks and turnovers are the quickest way to the bench as we've seen.[/QUOTE]

Part of that has to do with what the coaches expect from them, Joe has no problem if Brunell throws the ball away 70% of the time so long as he doesn't throw an INT, as for Parcells he doesn't want the INT's obviously, but he also wants him to make plays and thats where the INT's come from, Bledsoe knows he has a problem with Parcells if he's not making plays, Brunell has a nice comfort zone knowing Gibbs is happy if we don't turn the ball over. I think, or know that Gibbs believes he can win if the QB just doesn't lose the game, rather than having him try to win the game. That may have worked a bit back in the day but in order to do that now you better have a phenomanol defense and a great running game we have neither right now. Gibbs had the luxory to do what ever he wanted back in the 80's because his O-line dominated most defensive lines, he no longer has that advantage and hasen't figured out how to over come an even playing field. Gibbs is playing a game a chess right now and he's trying to win without useing his quenn.

Bottom line neither QB is overly bright when it comes to figuring out defenses and they never were, Brunell was a playmaker much like Vick except he was a little better passer and a little slower. where as Bledsoe always had a million dollar arm and a ten cent brain. I was shocked that Parcells stuck with him this long.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

The reasons why MB are struggling are of no real interest to me, I'm just glad that they have a plan to address it. I'll believe it when I see it, because like Mike Tyson used to say "Everyone has a plan until they get hit." And MB seems very reluctant to take hits these days, which is not a good fit because sometimes it looks like the offensive line is trying to get him taken out. Kinda like Parcells calling that qb run for Bledsoe from the 7 on MNF. No one can ever convince me that Parcells wasn't trying to get Bledsoe maimed on that play. And I like him for it.

Gibbs' emphasis on protecting the ball and not turning the ball over leads to MB checking down and throwing balls in the dirt. I don't think JG meant for Brunell not to ever challenge defenses, or to set a record for 3 and outs, but that's how MB has interpreted it this season. Good strategy, cuz MB's job is safe as long as he's not turning the ball over.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Good stuff. I completely agree with the sentiment that if it takes this long to learn to offense, GET CAMPBELL IN THERE NOW! On that note, the comment that he's taking snaps is significant--Gibbs usually only lets starters take snaps... we can only dream.

Guess Gibbs didn't think it would take MB a year to learn the offense, becuase he's "super smart". Ugh.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

if it takes a few sacks in return for throwing the ball deep, then so be it.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=offiss;235221]Gibbs is playing a game a chess right now and he's trying to win without useing his queen.[/QUOTE]

love it offiss. great analogy.

in Gibbs' defense, i completely understand why Gibbs decided to start Brunell this season, he figured with that defense, more of the same from last year (Brunell playing custodian) would get us some early wins. still, NO ONE could've predicted our defense was going to be *this* bad. completely night and day.

with the way the defense turned out, and the now obvious troubles Brunell has had with the new system, he's in a billion dollar pickle.

tough situation, but hell that's the job. Parcells yanked his boy when things didn't go to plan, and he's one of the very select few coaches Gibbs could actually call a peer..

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

I think early next week the Redskins move Campbell up to #2. Then on Sunday Brunell gets the start, and after a series or two regardless of how he's doing Campbell comes in. That's my off the wall prediction and I'm sticking to it

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

I know why.

He was done when we traded for him and until he was hit in the knee by New York, he was having an out of body experience.

He is a nice guy but he shouldn't be starting for any NFL team.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Excuses one after another for Brunell, now it's the old he's still learning a new offense, and big time todd collins is confirming that, the QB who hasen't seen the light of day in 7 years. Yes it's true it may take a QB a full year to learn the entire offense, but that is only getting familar with the plays, throwing to spots is something any real QB should know before he's out of high school, it's called anticipation, it also required the ability to read and understand not only what your own WR is going to do [ which shouldn't be a problem with a little practice ] but knowing how the defense is going to react, Brunell never had the QB smarts to understand either, his career has been a basic game plan if it's there throw it if not run until something opens up, which works to an extent, but rarely does it win championships. There is a reason Tom Coughlin wanted to trade Brunell when he was with the Jags, he didn't believe he could win with him at least not at a championship level, which lead to TC's departure.

Now here's is the most ridiculous problem, if in fact it takes a full year to really learn this offense, and Brunell is really a genious at QB and just needs to familarize himself with this new offense, Why on earth would we draft Campbell last year to sit on the bench for the next 3 to 4 years? Knowing that this season is basically a learning period for Brunell so that next season we can send a 37 year old QB out there and hope he wins it all, because if he doesn't we are then saddled with a 38 year old who will be playing out his farewell tour. Either you draft Campbell and commit to him and bring in a new O-coordinator, or you commit to Brunell and leave things as they were.

No matter how you look at it it doesn't make sense, so now we get this it will take a year for Brunell to learn HOW to play in this offense, then I guess it should take a year for Campbell to learn to play in this offense [and I don't mean a year on the sideline] if he can play at all. And if he can't we will be looking at the 2010 draft for a franchise QB to finally come in here and run Saunders offense.

Enough excuses already Brunell is horrible, and one giant mistake, Gibbs has to cut the cord with this guy and move on to the future in Campbell, if in fact he has a future?

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Rivers sat for two full seasons before taking over in SD, so sitting isn't going to kill Campbell either.

I don't see why it's so hard to understand why the coaches may not consider Campbell to be ready. Coming out of Auburn he wasn't considered to be a guy ready to step in right away and it was generally understood that he was a bit green. Add in the fact that he's learning his 2nd offense in as many years and a complex one at that, I think it's reasonable to see why the staff doesn't want to go to him until the team is all but out of contention.

He will get his chance this year, but some people have been freaking out and wringing their hands over him not playing going back to last year.

Relax.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

I'm hoping we DO have a Rivers situation. I'd love to see him come in next year after Brunell (hopefully) retires and we don't have a drop off in play.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;235364]I'm hoping we DO have a Rivers situation. I'd love to see him come in next year after Brunell (hopefully) retires and we don't have a drop off in play.[/QUOTE]

So what do you think would constitute a "drop off in play?"

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;235365]So what do you think would constitute a "drop off in play?"[/quote]

Maybe TMC meant "dump-off in play".

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

For us to not even have a QB. Just to snap to the RBs or WRs.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

That's on page 724 of Saunders playbook.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

There's a big difference between Drew Brees and Mark Brunell, Matty. The Chargers made the switch when Brees was hot, we won't make the switch when Brunell lacks a pulse.

Yes, Campbell is green. However, nothing you do in practice can prepare you for the field. It's time for him to see the field.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Just a quick side note, why can't I get into my birthday thread? I wanna' read my notes. :(

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;235376]Just a quick side note, why can't I get into my birthday thread? I wanna' read my notes. :([/QUOTE]

I can't either. I think El BSB may have given you a smiley overdose

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Maybe you can abbreviate it so I can read it.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

okay. :) x 59374

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Beautiful, now I won't have to watch the movie.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

1) bc he's learning a new system
2) bc he's got happy feet and afraid of a hit - so he checks down too often
3) he's on the down side of his career (old)
4) bc he can no longer win games
5) bc unless his feet are set, with nobody within an 8ft diameter, and his reciever has carlos rogers defending him, he doesn't hit people open for longer than 15 yards.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[quote=Daseal;235374]There's a big difference between Drew Brees and Mark Brunell, Matty. The Chargers made the switch when Brees was hot, we won't make the switch when Brunell lacks a pulse.

Yes, Campbell is green. However, nothing you do in practice can prepare you for the field. It's time for him to see the field.[/quote]

I wasn't comparing Brees to Brunell, I was simply trying to make the point that sitting doesn't mean it's going to hurt Campbell or that the coaches don't have any long term confidence in him. Sometimes the circumstances just dictate the situation.

I don't agree that playing is the only way to get a player prepared. Rivers sure is playing very well for a guy seeing his first taste of significant action. Better than he would have if he had started right from the start one could easily argue.

Some players do benefit from playing early, but on the flipside it also helps some guys to sit and learn. I think with guys like Leinart, Eli Manning, those guys were pretty much ready to start coming out of college. Plug them in and let them learn on the run. Other guys who are more raw coming out can definitely benefit by sitting a year or two. But in today's NFL you just don't see it as much as we used to.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

it was me TMC ;(

i gave you a 30,000 smilies salute since you were asking for it, but it kinda locked the thread.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;235369]For us to not even have a QB. Just to snap to the RBs or WRs.[/QUOTE]

Saunders has practically resorted to that.

with all the end-arounds, and Randle El in the backfield, Brunell can just hand it off to his recievers instead of trying to throw it to them.

you're right though, why not go further and just have Randle El behind center?

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;235026]In the past, hasn't TC worked with the first unit when MB was injured? If so, that is an interesting move.[/QUOTE]

You are correct, sir!
TC then JC...

I have butterflies in my stomach!

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

jawesome article kind sir

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Saunders has clearly refused to adapt his offense to the strengths of the players he has. A typical NFL team goes in with about 60 offensive plays in the game plan for any given week. Saunders is going in with 300. Complexity invites disaster.

Someone needs to pull their heads out of their asses and figure out what they do well and just do that.

Also, it is very important to note that the Skins had the lead at the half in three games they ultimately lost. There is a clear drop off by Brunell in the second half. I'd suggest it has to do with the complexity. Simplicity is a principal of war.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[quote=That Guy;235411]it was me TMC ;(

i gave you a 30,000 smilies salute since you were asking for it, but it kinda locked the thread.[/quote]

It's OK, I appreciate it. It just lets me know that people care. *single tear rolling down cheek* :biggthump

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

[quote=illdefined;235068]with the dire (and mostly unavoidable) state of our defense, you look to the QB to pick the team up and try and win games. 5 losses (especially the WAY we've lost them) has been too many to realize that Brunell wasn't about to "win now".[/quote]

Our defense has lost us the games...not our offense. You can't seriously be thinking Campbell would be able to put up more points than Brunell has to this point, just learning the offense himself, can you?

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Oh, I do. I think Campbell would actually USE some of our offseason acquisitions like Lloyd and Randle El. Sure, he might throw a few more INTs than Brunell, but I would think he'd make more plays without question.

Re: Why Brunell is Struggling
 

Because honestly, I don't think it's just Brunell's health that's failing him, I think it's his mental awareness too. He just isn't making reads fast enough.