Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Just up on skins.com. Brunell back at practice. Will start against Dallas.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;237420]Just up on skins.com. Brunell back at practice. Will start against Dallas.[/quote]
This makes me wanna throw up

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=gibbsisgod;237420]Just up on skins.com. Brunell back at practice. Will start against Dallas.[/QUOTE]

:Smoker:

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;237420]Just up on skins.com. Brunell back at practice. Will start against Dallas.[/quote]

:towel::confused- :embarrass :mad:

I don't know what to feel.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Kill me

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Are we surprised. I think most here have agreed that at best JC is the #2 guy on Sunday

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=illdefined;237430]:Smoker:[/quote]

What he said......

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Let's consider the various scenarios for the future regarding both players....

1. MB is going to have an amazing second half of the season and lead the Skins into the playoffs.
2. MB is going to continue to play as he has or worse and there will be no post season.
3. MB has an amazing turn around, but it isn't enough.

As far as JC goes....

1. JC will play at some point in the future and clearly establish he is not a quality franchise QB and should not be the starting QB for 2007.
2. JC begins playing this season takes some lumps, but shows progress, poise and promise. The season ends with the offense on an upswing. 2007 with JC under center is cause for optimism.
3. JC begins playing and his poise and arm strength results in an amazing turn around for the offense.

Of all of these different scenarios and combination of scenarios, there is only one where continuing to start MB is a good thing -- that is the least likely scenario.

If JC starts and clearly establishes he is not the QB of the future, that is important information and something it is good for everyone to find out sooner rather than later.

If the second half of the season is 2-7 or 0-9, what difference does it make. the chances of MB going 9-0 are near nil. We already know what MB can and cannot do. The chances of JC turning things around are better than MB's.

Even if JC did not lead a turn around, at least he would be getting ready for 2007.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Daseal called it right. Brunell gives us the best chance to not lose.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=Dogtag;237354]My humble two cents on who plays QB.

When I look to hire a person to do a job, I look for experience, knowledge, pedigree, character, and all too often cost.

I have never hired someone because they could use the experience and they probably couldn't do any worse than the guy doing it now. I do not tie my performance record to a guy who has not proven he can get the job done.

You have to prove yourself as better capable to do the job before you unseat the incumbent. Its just the way life works.

For JC that means proving it day in and day out with consistent performances at practice, in front of those that make the decision.[/quote]



thats old school. if everyone hired like that no one would ever get a start in your business.

I don't know how long you've been in management or what field, but the businesses that grow are the ones who don't get into the doldrums of doing business like daddy, but the ones who can think forward. Usually that means hiring new younger canditates for positions and doing what it takes to mold them into someone who shares your values and business plan, but can help you grow. At that point it becomes retention, which is easier and CHEAPER than stealing talent from someone else with whom they have a history...

for this analogy, character and pedigree are supposed to already be there in the younger QB and cost is not an issue, because we're already paying him. experience is the only thing that stands in his way, (because with potential, knowledge is gained from experience) and no one else is gonna let him play for them until he gets the hang of things and learns, and let us sign him if he gets good... thats what college was for...


-I don't mean to sound gruff, but I deal with older old-school business men everyday who cant understand why their business is getting taken by people who arent conforming to yesterdays standards... and they're quick to dismiss unproven ideas and prospects because they're not experienced, but its usually the guy who gives someone the experience that gain the rewards of the prospects potential...

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;237218]I hope campbell has come a long way since preseason, cause he showed nothing then.....against 3rd string defenses. He seemed to lack vision, I'm assuming that was because of the new offense. I hope he has grasped Saunders' scheme, but I doubt he has. I wouldnt be against starting todd collins. I think he would be a better guy for campbell to learn from, that is if campbell proves not ready.[/QUOTE]

So you argue that based on preseason performance we shouldnt start Campbell and then argue we should consider starting Collins!?!?!?!

Did you watch the preseason?

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=GoSkins!;237472]Daseal called it right. Brunell gives us the best chance to not lose.[/quote]

And if you don't lose.................?????????? you win? is that not the objective? Baltimore won a SB a couple of years ago doing something like that.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!;237472]Daseal called it right. Brunell gives us the best chance to not lose.[/QUOTE]

see 'not losing' only works if you have a DEFENSE (the baltimore example). if your defense is hurting, and woefully misstaffed as ours is this year, then the QB has to get the offense off 'not lose' mode, and actually lead it into 'WIN' mode.

'WIN' mode includes such uncharactisteric methods as lobbing the ball twice 50yds into the air over the middle to Santana Moss, with 4 minutes left in a game. against important divisional rivals such as DALLAS for instance..

you see 'WIN' goes a step further than 'not lose' (since we've been 'not losing' here steadily at 2-5). 'WIN' actually means 'MAKE the OTHER team lose' and is in fact the preferred method of GOOD TEAMS.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

The more I think on the reasons why JC isn't the starting QB, the more I realize it's not about his lack a experience as much as it is Gibbs more concerned about the injured feelings of Brunell. Week in and week out we have heard Gibbs defend Brunell's inconsistent play even when he threw INT's. All of of us know how Gibbs feels about turnovers. Look, when Brunell is benched it's the end of his career. That's what Gibbs knows and he is basically trying to save face. This is ridiculous after all of the money that has been spent to settle for Brunell after Gibbs drafted Campbell in the first place.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA;237614]The more I think on the reasons why JC isn't the starting QB, the more I realize it's not about his lack a experience as much as it is Gibbs more concerned about the injured feelings of Brunell. Week in and week out we have heard Gibbs defend Brunell's inconsistent play even when he threw INT's. All of of us know how Gibbs feels about turnovers. Look, when Brunell is benched it's the end of his career. That's what Gibbs knows and he is basically trying to save face. This is ridiculous after all of the money that has been spent to settle for Brunell after Gibbs drafted Campbell in the first place.[/QUOTE]


I never thought of it that way, but it does make sense......

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

If JC is listed as the 3rd qb on the roster before that game on sunday and he comes in before the 4th quarter then the other QBs can not be used at any position for the remainder of the game. Its a stupid rule but a rule nonetheless. It seems unlikely JC will play before the 4th quarter.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=SUNRA;237614]The more I think on the reasons why JC isn't the starting QB, the more I realize it's not about his lack a experience as much as it is Gibbs more concerned about the injured feelings of Brunell. Week in and week out we have heard Gibbs defend Brunell's inconsistent play even when he threw INT's. All of of us know how Gibbs feels about turnovers. Look, when Brunell is benched it's the end of his career. That's what Gibbs knows and he is basically trying to save face. This is ridiculous after all of the money that has been spent to settle for Brunell after Gibbs drafted Campbell in the first place.[/quote]

Gibbs may be a super nice and sensitive guy but if you think he's going to say "Hmmm...try to win a championship or ensure Mark's feelings aren't hurt?" then you are wrong.

If anything, he doesn't see a performance upgrade by bringing in Campbell so he's doing what he has always succesfully done, let the young guy sit and absorb the game. He's from a different era that allowed for players to sit for a few years (hidden) until he felt they were ready to come in. Nowadays, the NFL is all about getting it done NOW! I'm not saying his way is the right way but it's what he knows and he may change/adapt. I'd rather wait until Campbell is perceived by the coaches to be ready instead of him going in and trying to win games using techniques that leads to bad habits. The question is: are we building for this season's run only or building a perennial contender. I would think the statistic concerning successful QB's that became a starter with less than two years experience versus QB's that had time to sit and develop is overwhelmingly in favor of the QB's that had time.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=djnemo65;237583]So you argue that based on preseason performance we shouldnt start Campbell and then argue we should consider starting Collins!?!?!?!

Did you watch the preseason?[/quote]

Yes I watched the preseason, and saw nothing out of campbell, however, collins knows the offense at least, which would make gibbs more comfortable, and he could teach campbell more easily than brunell since he should know the plays like the back of his hand. It's true that collins didnt look good in preseason, but he has done it in the past during the reg season with a crappy chiefs defense on the other side of the ball, preseason is the only way to judge campbell at this moment.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Outside of the Bengals preseason game I thought Collins looked ok.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

New QB's ARE GOING to make mistakes..................usually many

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=SUNRA;237614]The more I think on the reasons why JC isn't the starting QB, the more I realize it's not about his lack a experience as much as it is Gibbs more concerned about the injured feelings of Brunell. Week in and week out we have heard Gibbs defend Brunell's inconsistent play even when he threw INT's. All of of us know how Gibbs feels about turnovers. Look, when Brunell is benched it's the end of his career. That's what Gibbs knows and he is basically trying to save face. This is ridiculous after all of the money that has been spent to settle for Brunell after Gibbs drafted Campbell in the first place.[/quote]

Do you really think Joe2 would sacrifice the team for Brunell's.............feelings..............or his own ego? I know, I have heard more ridiculous things in my life. At the moment I cannot think of any

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=canthetuna;237579]I don't mean to sound gruff, but I deal with older old-school business men everyday who cant understand why their business is getting taken by people who arent conforming to yesterdays standards... and they're quick to dismiss unproven ideas and prospects because they're not experienced, but its usually the guy who gives someone the experience that gain the rewards of the prospects potential...[/quote]

Since you want to make this personal, here goes.

My business has a growth rate of a minimum of 23% per year. We grow our growth internally, that is, we don't buy other companies just because they have a contract we want. We don't buy growth, we cultivate it.

We have training paths to teach our younger employees our business culture and work ethics. We also provide for the professional development of our less experienced staff.

If thats OLD SCHOOL then I'm damned proud to be old school. A business has to grow to stay strong. A growing business is not taken over by the younger movers and shakers. Moving and shaking plays very thin after a while and people tend to gravitate toward companies with proven performance and core values.

CANTHETUNA you stepped over the line here and I will call you out on this one. That is about as delicately as I can put it.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Dogtag;237648]Since you want to make this personal, here goes.

My business has a growth rate of a minimum of 23% per year. We grow our growth internally, that is, we don't buy other companies just because they have a contract we want. We don't buy growth, we cultivate it.

We have training paths to teach our younger employees our business culture and work ethics. We also provide for the professional development of our less experienced staff.

If thats OLD SCHOOL then I'm damned proud to be old school. A business has to grow to stay strong. A growing business is not taken over by the younger movers and shakers. Moving and shaking plays very thin after a while and people tend to gravitate toward companies with proven performance and core values.

CANTHETUNA you stepped over the line here and I will call you out on this one. That is about as delicately as I can put it.[/QUOTE]

<--- deals with different businesses everyday...
<--- only partly agrees

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

What's your business Dogtag, if you don't mind my asking?

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=TAFKAS;237679]What's your business Dogtag, if you don't mind my asking?[/quote]

Another thread hijack masterfully done by the Great TAFKAS!

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=TAFKAS;237679]What's your business Dogtag, if you don't mind my asking?[/quote]

I'd be happy to tell you offline; however, it is a private sector company providing technial services (mostly defense, management, and engineering) with a bottom line of over $1 Billion per year.

I've been at this for over 30 years, hold an advanced degree, and take a great deal of pride in my company and the work we do. It may be false pride, but I think I have a small inkling about how to do my job.

Enough - I'm not trying to highjack this thread. I'm not even really angry with CANTHETUNA. Anyone is free to disagree with my opinons about the Redskins ... heaven knows we are all experts in our own minds. I'm gratefull for the diversion. I get my hackles up when someone challenges me professionally however. RANT OVER.

I use this site as a reward to myself for completing a task that I really did not savor tackling. But I limit myself to no more than 10 minutes and my time is up.

Cheers!

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Yeah PM me Dogtag. I'm just curious about it is all

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

"heaven knows we are all experts in our own minds"

Quote of the month right there. :)

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

I didn't get to see campbell much at Auburn, did anyone get to see him play much????? Give me some insight on his strengths and weaknesses, habits etc... preseason just didn't show us enough.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

oh lord.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=Dogtag;237648]Since you want to make this personal, here goes.
[/quote]


Nothing I said had anything to do with anything personal, I didn't come out and call you a fat homosexual mongoose raping inbred smelly person, I disagreed with what I interpreted your analogy to mean. I even tied it back to the relevant subject matter, that being campbell and attempted to point out how your business views simply didn't apply to the current QB situation.

Wasnt a personal attack, and I explained that if it DID sound that way, it probably had nothing at all to do with you, but MY business and what I deal with everyday.

I didn't cross a line, but I am sorry YOU interpreted it that way...

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=Dogtag;237648] A growing business is not taken over by the younger movers and shakers. Moving and shaking plays very thin after a while and people tend to gravitate toward companies with proven performance and core values.

CANTHETUNA you stepped over the line here and I will call you out on this one. That is about as delicately as I can put it.[/quote]


I don't need it delicate, you can ask my wife, I like it rough...;)


If innovative thinking and understanding ever-moving market trends are "moving and shaking" then moving and shaking are the reason you don't see fucking woolworths on every corner anymore... welcome walmart... with levi's and HDTV's...


The difference in our views, however is traced to our market. When I said I had no IDEA what you did or how long youve been doing it it wasn't an attack... now its clarified. You deal with Defense, aka "the govt" the only business that does business exactly the opposite of every other business in the world. Spending more money means a larger budget, and lack of results can result in promotions. (my father in law is some "some body" in "some factor" of the DOD as well, and I don't claim to know everything, or even much about what goes on, I know enough to know its not the same)

you know what, Im drunk and babbling and will probably regret posting this after you attempt to make me look stupid tomorrow, but f it...

i freaking love you dude....:):food-smil

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[IMG]http://shopping.discovery.com/DiscoveryStore/images/products/extra/754143_xl.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=RedskinRat;238021][IMG]http://shopping.discovery.com/DiscoveryStore/images/products/extra/754143_xl.jpg[/IMG][/quote]


ha!
but yuengling and thewarpath have been going hand-in-hand for a couple of years!

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;237735]I didn't get to see campbell much at Auburn, did anyone get to see him play much????? Give me some insight on his strengths and weaknesses, habits etc... preseason just didn't show us enough.[/QUOTE]




You can check out his 2005 SEC Championship Game highlights, 1st & 2nd half on You Tube, There may be others I haven't found, or am not aware of.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;237735]I didn't get to see campbell much at Auburn, did anyone get to see him play much????? Give me some insight on his strengths and weaknesses, habits etc... preseason just didn't show us enough.[/quote]
Living in Nashville, I saw all I needed to see of Campbell @ Auburn. Keep in mind the guy had 4 offensive coordinators while in college. He does have a cannon and he is VERY accurate. His last season @ Auburn is what made him jump up as a top quality QB and a high Pick. Gibbs must have seen something. Maybe the #17 Campbell wore/wears reminded Gibbs of another tall strong armed QB from Grambling St.. HMMMM..........

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;238032]You can check out his 2005 SEC Championship Game highlights, 1st & 2nd half on You Tube, There may be others I haven't found, or am not aware of.[/QUOTE]

YouTube is starting to crack down on such highlights. You will notice that some of those videos are being removed. The Wall Street Journal just ran an article today about this issue. Youtube is getting threats from the NFL, NCAA, and other organizations that are pissed about copyright infringement.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;238355]YouTube is starting to crack down on such highlights. You will notice that some of those videos are being removed. The Wall Street Journal just ran an article today about this issue. Youtube is getting threats from the NFL, NCAA, and other organizations that are pissed about copyright infringement.[/QUOTE]



I didn't know that, but I did wonder why SBXXII highlights had been removed from my favorites just recently. I had downloaded it along with Jason's highlights. Thanks for the info.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=skinnyfan;237195]Why can't we look at adding Campbell as having a positive effect?? May add a spark to the passing game or confidence to a team that has none?? I know its a long stretch to think that would happen, but I'm sure the coaches would make the change in order to add some life to the team. Not concede the season. If they put Campbell in and say well, there goes the season, what message does that send to him?? Campbell not playing tells me he is not ready to play, because if Brunell is our best QB option then the season is already lost.[/QUOTE]

I've got a pocket full of dreams I could sell you too.

Campbell is only going to provide a spark if he plays well, and particularly better than Brunell. Clearly the coaches don't see that in him yet.

What's far more likely than "providing a spark" is that you send in a QB who isn't ready for primetime and he takes this team lower than anyone thought we could go. That's way more damaging to morale than Brunell playing conservatively.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=mheisig;238484]I've got a pocket full of dreams I could sell you too.

Campbell is only going to provide a spark if he plays well, and particularly better than Brunell. Clearly the coaches don't see that in him yet.

What's far more likely than "providing a spark" is that you send in a QB who isn't ready for primetime and he takes this team lower than anyone thought we could go. That's way more damaging to morale than Brunell playing conservatively.[/quote]


brunell's led us to 2-5 thusfar. losses are still losses. I'd rather JC gets experience, cause i DO NOT want to see brunell in 2007.