Like the Broncos with their running game, a lot of people say the same about the other end opposite Taylor on the Dolphins line. They think you could plug anyoen in there and he would be productive.
I dont think thats the case though, if it was they wouldnt care so much about keeping him. The dolphins havent even said yet that they want to trade him.
If we could get him im sure it woudl be a great upgrade for us, but I dont know if we would win the trade battle unless we want to give up a first and third. If there was a way to get him without giving up the first then itd woudl be awesome.

ask yourself why do we need a first so bad (hopefully it'd be real late too)? we'd prolly use it for a DE anyway. w/o knowing how he could handle the NFL. a WR? like Gardner? all big risks. this guy is here now, young and tested.

Snyder is about to prove to the whole league how overrated the draft is. everyone agrees he's up to something good since the Jetskins, singlehandedly gonna change the league. he's come a long way from Deion and Jeff George.

Gardner probably has more trade value than anyone else on the roster and we're pretty deep with our WR corps if we'll rely on double TE formations. I was hoping a deal would've happen sooner (before draft ended).

Coles was drafted in what, the seonc round. And when did teh dolphins draft him, i know he wanst earlier than 4th, I cant remember if he was even drafted. Coles was a huge pick up for us, but we could have also drafted him. Look at all the players that were drafted in teh first round that are stars now. Yes its a gamble, theres plenty of busts to, but thats always why they odnt make a lot of money.
And youre assuming that if we trade our first for him that he comes in and dominates. WHat if he comes in and is a huge bust, then what. They we have another overpaid player, and no draft choice. If you draft someone and they turn out to be a bust the penalty is a lot less.
Its a gamble no matter how you cut it, I just hope whatever Synder decides that we get the best of it.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]And youre assuming that if we trade our first for him that he comes in and dominates. WHat if he comes in and is a huge bust, then what. They we have another overpaid player, and no draft choice. If you draft someone and they turn out to be a bust the penalty is a lot less.
Its a gamble no matter how you cut it, I just hope whatever Synder decides that we get the best of it.[/QUOTE]

maybe not dominates, but better than anything we got or have had in forever? SAFE BET. this guy led the league and sacks his second year. didnt do too bad for his first, how much better is that than a draftee of unknown number?

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]And what exactly do you mean by he is doing better getting into shape this year?? name one person in the NFL that has ever been in better shape than David Boston.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure where you get your info. Here are some quotes from many different sources about his shape this year and last. This is what I have been reading:

"WR David Boston again missed practice because of a shin injury, although he was on the field to watch the drills. HC Dave Wannstedt said he thinks Boston's weight contributed to the injury. "He is heavier than he needs to be, but he has lost weight from where he was," said Wannstedt."

"HC Dave Wannstedt said he was much happier with the performance of WR David Boston, who missed the previous quarterback school with a calf injury. Boston was on the field and appeared in better condition than during the first minicamp, when he struggled to catch his breath at times. Wannstedt had expressed his displeasure with Boston during the previous quarterback school."

"2003 Hot Sheet Outlook
Boston was a total bust in San Diego last season and the Dolphins hope he can spark their lackluster passing attack after they acquired him in an offseason trade. His monster 2001 season in Arizona looks like a mirage, but he's certainly better than what he displayed with the Chargers. He showed up to Miami's minicamp overweight, and that may have contributed to a shin injury that hobbled him in early May. Buyer beware. "

"The Dolphins believe Boston plays his best at 229 pounds, but in two months, Boston hasn't shed a pound and still is around 240. Coach Dave Wannstedt believes weight was an issue for Boston in San Diego and doesn't want it to be here. "

"The Dolphins believe excess weight may have contributed to lower leg bleeding that kept Boston out of the first three days of quarterback school."

"Now we can see where a bit of Boston's attitude problems may be coming from, huh? If his personal trainer advises him to ignore his employer's trainers, it seems like a natural source of some of the friction that we heard about regarding Boston in San Diego last year. Will Boston "shape up" and please the Dolphins, or will his spiral out of favor continue in Miami? We'll keep you posted. "

"The loss spoiled a two-touchdown highlight show from Boston, who himself returned from a one-game suspension for violating team rules -- the coaching staff's code for being overweight. "

"Is anyone surprised by the David Boston situation in San Diego? All the Arizona people we talked to before the season predicted a meltdown with Boston playing for Marty Schottenheimer. The coach sent him home Wednesday for a series of disciplinary problems. Boston plays the game at times as if he doesn't care. Repeating the view here when he was signed: Boston was a bad signing for a team that needed defensive help. It's worse now since he's causing problems again. "The guy is a weird, strange man," said one Cardinals staffer. "It was only a matter of time."

Don't draft this guy in the early rounds of your fantasy league...

He weighs 240 and they want him to be lighter but hes not overwight with fat at 240. Its all muscle weight. Do you remember when the Skins played him, he dominated us every game. They want him to weigh less because they think it will make him faster, and mabye it will a little. Im just waiting for a team to play Boston at TE.

I didnt know about the shin injury though, so thanks for that info.

Canes, you may be right about the muscle vs. fat, I don't know. That is certainly what his agent claims. If that is so, my choice of the term "shape" was poor. But, still, I don't think he is a lock for #2. Regardless of any numbers, he is generally regarded to have been a major "disappointment" in each of his last two seasons. Both Schottenheimer and Wannstadt have complained about his weight. But neither is on my list of great coaches, so it's hard to tell what the real problem is. In any case, I'm sure Wannstadt would not mind having some significant competition at the spot to encourage all of them to peak performance. I guess I am just wishfully thinking of a way to get a major boost to our DL without giving up anything that will hurt. LOL

I think Boston will have a big year this year, and if he lines up against number 2 corners I think he will dominate them. The guy is a beast, i dont know what hes deal has been but his a mismatch against any corner when hes in there playing and healthy.

Boston may be pumped but that doesn't necessarly help as a WR. As you build up muscle you build up bulk and reduce agility and swiftness. You may have supurb stength but look at the best martial artists in the world they never look totally ripped or bulked up becasue it interefers with their mobity. I am sure they are not commenting on Boston being fat just being too big and if he keeps ignoring trainers and coaches advice then I don't see him playing anywhere as a No.2 or even 3 receiver.

Wow, Boston would most certainly be a #2 reciever, he is big, strong, fast, and has great hands. Like i said, if he didnt get suspended last year he could have broken 1,000 yards with 2 incinsistent QB's. Boston has been an elite reciever, and if it wasnt for an injury the year before last, and the issues last season, hed still be there. Do not count him out

all this Boston talk leading to the notion that Gardner COULD be something Miami could maybe use. its about getting Ogunleye. keep your eyes on the prize Snyder. Eagles, Giants, they all have a pass rush..

[QUOTE=Big C]Wow, Boston would most certainly be a #2 reciever, he is big, strong, fast, and has great hands. Like i said, if he didnt get suspended last year he could have broken 1,000 yards with 2 incinsistent QB's. Boston has been an elite reciever, and if it wasnt for an injury the year before last, and the issues last season, hed still be there. Do not count him out[/QUOTE]

You are just totally ignoring the actual performance of the past 2 years and keying on his 2001 performance. Do some reading, or just check my earlier post. The guy was a dismal disappointment to both of his previous employers. Those "issues" you mention are what can make or break any receiver. Remember Andre Rison? Boston has taken himself that same direction.

[QUOTE=illdefined]all this Boston talk leading to the notion that Gardner COULD be something Miami could maybe use. its about getting Ogunleye. keep your eyes on the prize Snyder. Eagles, Giants, they all have a pass rush..[/QUOTE]


I agree.
As talented as Boston is. I would rather have Gardner. The Redskins offered their first round pick for next year already. So, I would forget about adding Gardner into the equation. Eventhough Miami declined the offer, as time goes by they will have no choice but to give him up. Don't be surprised if the Redskins do get him straight up for the 1st round pick.

Then we will hear about some cuts to clear cap space. Possibly Wynn or Upshaw, depending on who had performed better in the minicamps or training camp.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]You are just totally ignoring the actual performance of the past 2 years and keying on his 2001 performance. Do some reading, or just check my earlier post. The guy was a dismal disappointment to both of his previous employers. Those "issues" you mention are what can make or break any receiver. Remember Andre Rison? Boston has taken himself that same direction.[/QUOTE]

hogskin, obviously u did not see the part aboutme saying that boston would have been a 1,000 yard reciever last season had he not been suspended (70 catches 880 yards while missing 2 games). also, the year before that, he was putting up very good numbers for the games he acutally played (32 catches 512 yards in 8 games), maybe you should do the research before you criticise my comments, when they are legitimate. Look up the facts, and quit giving me ur bs, its getting old.

well, while this now seems completly off topic, it is the name of the thread so im going to post it here. It appears we offered our first round pick for him. Of course Gibbs is saying we arent interested becaues they arent going to give him up, and technically the Fins havent put him on the trade block yet. However, they may be more intereseted in trading him as the realization that he will set out becomes more real, as the season approaches.

If we dont sign him until, lets says August, how much of a disadvantage do you think he will be at, having to learn a new system in only a few weeks?

I don't what the difference is between Greg Williams scheme and the one that Dolphins are running. It's going to be tough for him to adjust, but if this guy really wants to play here and is dedicated then it shouldn't be much of a problem. I haven't heard much about his work ethic or his football smarts. Everything I've heard is all based on his talent.


SkinsnCanes you bring up a good point......but we'll just have to wait and see.

anyone know if hes still working out and keepign in shape even though he hasnt gone to any of their camps? If he hasnt worked out all offseason because he normally did it with the team then it would really hurt us for a while. He would have to get back into footbal shape.

[QUOTE=Big C]hogskin, obviously u did not see the part aboutme saying that boston would have been a 1,000 yard reciever last season had he not been suspended (70 catches 880 yards while missing 2 games). also, the year before that, he was putting up very good numbers for the games he acutally played (32 catches 512 yards in 8 games), maybe you should do the research before you criticise my comments, when they are legitimate. Look up the facts, and quit giving me ur bs, its getting old.[/QUOTE]

Obviously, I DID read your post. That is what I specifically replied to, but you apparently were unable to understand the facts. You were talking about Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda - that doesn't cut it in the big leagues, kiddo. Performance does. Did you bother to read my reference to "issues" and Rison? That is the whole point. The guy is a head case. As long as he is a head case, he will be no good to anyone, and will continue to move from team-to-team until he has nowhere to go. You are way too young to remember Joe Don Looney. He was ALSO a "beast", massively strong and talented. The reason you probably have heard nothing about him was exactly what I have been talking about. He was a head case, and wore out his welcome everywhere in the NFL. Boston has done exactly that with 2 teams and is on his third. According to some reports, some of the same crap is starting again. We'll just have to wait and see if he is ready to grow up and act like a PRO.

As far as facts, that is what I deal in, not in emotion, which seems to be what is driving you.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]Obviously, I DID read your post. That is what I specifically replied to, but you apparently were unable to understand the facts. You were talking about Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda - that doesn't cut it in the big leagues, kiddo. Performance does. Did you bother to read my reference to "issues" and Rison? That is the whole point. The guy is a head case. As long as he is a head case, he will be no good to anyone, and will continue to move from team-to-team until he has nowhere to go. You are way too young to remember Joe Don Looney. He was ALSO a "beast", massively strong and talented. The reason you probably have heard nothing about him was exactly what I have been talking about. He was a head case, and wore out his welcome everywhere in the NFL. Boston has done exactly that with 2 teams and is on his third. According to some reports, some of the same crap is starting again. We'll just have to wait and see if he is ready to grow up and act like a PRO.

As far as facts, that is what I deal in, not in emotion, which seems to be what is driving you.[/QUOTE]

Your throwback mentality to the game is nice, but I think if you look at the "facts" (as you are apparently deeply wedded to), you would see that there are many head cases in the NFL year in and year out who are productive despite their lack of mental toughness. Sure, they're not Hall of Famers, but I think Joe Horn and Terrell Owens, two of the biggest headcases in the game, had very productive seasons last year. Boston needs a good situation to blossom (QB/offensive system), and while I don't think he has that in Miami, he could certainly be effective on any numbers of teams barring injury. Your point specifically with respect to head cases lacks merit, and your reliance on demeaning phrases such as "kiddo" and several references to the previous poster's age do not necessarily make you any more correct. They make you seem angry, condescending, and desperate. Your post seems more driven by emotion than any of the others I have read.

EEEEEAAAASSYY, fellas! :stop:

Let's not get into a flame war over David Boston. The guy's caused problems for enough people as it is!

Besides, the topic of this thread is the Redskins' interest in Ogunleye. I understand Boston's impact on trade possibilities, but let's try to keep this focused on the how and why of acquiring Ogunleye.

I just hope we get Ogunleye. That's all I care about.

F-Boston and all this crap you guys are arguing about.

here here. the skins pass rush absence is what we should really be caring about. how many years now has it been since they really did anything about it? since Bruce Smith?? obviously Joe Gibbs felt it was worth a first round, good so did i. i say throw in Wynn and even Gardner if need be to make it happen. the worst part now is waiting.

the front of the PFC or whatever the other thread is about, the home page for that sez that the dolphins arent interested in a trade, so that pretty much ends that

[QUOTE=Big C]the front of the PFC or whatever the other thread is about, the home page for that sez that the dolphins arent interested in a trade, so that pretty much ends that[/QUOTE]

Well of course the Dolphins are going to say they're not interested in a trade. They have to at least pretend they want to keep Ogunleye to drive his price up.

never know these days

"The Times' Jody Foldesy reports that the Redskins are hoping to strike a deal for Dolphins defensive end Adewale Ogunleye. A source told Foldesy that the Redskins are willing to trade a first-round pick for Ogunleye."

This is from foxsports.com, is there any truth to this?? I thought we traded our 1st round pick already, but maybe not? Just thought you guys might want to see this rumor

we traded our 2nd for Cooley, but we still have our first

[QUOTE=Big C]we traded our 2nd for Cooley, but we still have our first[/QUOTE]

this is the chance to finally do something about our super suspect defensive line. can we really go another season without doing something about it? football is a game won and lost on the line, but the Skins have only looked at one side of it for far too long. we got Gibbs back, where's Mann and Manley??? (ok, no one answer that last one)

'Wale is a standup guy personality wise. smart, down to earth, the kinda guy Gibbs could really go for. lets sign him up long term (thats what he wants) and start purging our offensive excess (QB,WR)

i just heard the sports guy on the news say that there's big news for redskins fans coming up after the commercial so cross your fingers everyone.

nevermind it was just about the preseason tv schedule :( but on the good side Gibbs will be on to talk before each game.

really, sweet. Id love for him to tell us about where the after game party will be when we crush whoever we are playing.

Plus it will be a nice change from hearing all the commentators say how much is wrong with Spurrier and the team.

From today's Washington Post:

Redskins Notes: Gibbs said the team remains open to adding players but is not pursuing any trades or signings at this time, refuting reports of a potential deal with Miami for pass rusher Adewale Ogunleye. "We're not pursuing anybody," Gibbs said. League sources maintain Ogunleye has not been made available for a trade and the Dolphins have no intention of moving the un-signed restricted free agent at this time. .

well. If we were to trade our first round pick for next year I guess we wouldnt hvae to deal with all this potentail hold out crap, or players not having an agent. Thats a plus.

I don't have a problem with dealing next years #1, but what is concerning is how much $$ it's going to take to sign this guy and the long term ramifications it will have on the cap.

I'm not ruling anything out, but if I had to bet I'd say a deal won't happen.

At this point ill just wait for the long term ramification to occur and worry about it then. They havent happened yet and everyoen keeps saying they will. If we pick good players and they remain good players then its not as much of an impact as when we sign big players and then we have to cut them for being busts. Of course, recentlly, say the last two years, we have been cutting big names that were busts and seem to still be fine with the cap. Id hate for us to come up short this year and it be because we were missing one piece. I say while Gibbs is in town we work on getting a ring. We can rebuild later if we have to.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]well. If we were to trade our first round pick for next year I guess we wouldnt hvae to deal with all this potentail hold out crap, or players not having an agent. Thats a plus.[/QUOTE]

yes! or deal with them being big draft busts, like say Gardner? Westbrook? whats our record for Dline first rounders?

Snyder finally got it right. pay up for NFL productive, well-charactered young guys JUST below the radar. this is another one of those opps and i'll stop sayin it now.

this is our first year w/o Champ guys, Springs and Taylor will hopefully cancel that out. our linebackers are all new save Scarrington, all starting from scratch. even with Bailey, we didnt stop enough offenses. our defense needs some serious DLINE love, and i'd hate to have to resort to and WAIT for next year's draft, which of course, is NO kind of guarantee.

i feel the offense is top heavy, we could afford to shed some of those wideouts from the Spurrier 'just chuck it' days. not to mention a certain johnny-come-lately QB. Can we cut him NEXT season w/o that cap hit??

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]At this point ill just wait for the long term ramification to occur and worry about it then. They havent happened yet and everyoen keeps saying they will. If we pick good players and they remain good players then its not as much of an impact as when we sign big players and then we have to cut them for being busts. Of course, recentlly, say the last two years, we have been cutting big names that were busts and seem to still be fine with the cap. Id hate for us to come up short this year and it be because we were missing one piece. I say while Gibbs is in town we work on getting a ring. We can rebuild later if we have to.[/QUOTE]


:headbange
EXACTLY. imagine if Joe Gibbs historic one year triumphant return was stopped by ONE (crucial, vital, fundamental) piece! i honestly think we are all pretty damn good otherwise

So we all agree we just trade for him and win the super bowl then. Sounds good to me, its selltled. Ill start planning for the party at my house.

>obviously u did not see the part aboutme saying that boston would have been a 1,000 >yard reciever last season had he not been suspended (70 catches 880 yards while >missing 2 games).

problem with that kinda statement is that he WAS suspended, so he didn't hit 1000, the reason doesn't really matter, as repeat offenses/injuries aren't that uncommon...

anyways, i'd love a better D line too, but like kearse, this guy is gonna be expensive, and i doubt throwing wynn in really going to help much ;) he is proven, but coming in during august means we might be seeing some mediocre performances early on (though i believe they'd be better than the current roster). I like watching the draft, but more importantly, spreading the money between more than 5-6 players tends to leave weaknesses (i think miami got the sacks cause they had TWO linemen, with only one, its easier to double team him and scramble the other way)

the other problem is that danny tends to overpay, and the "build for today, f^%& tomorrow" mentality just doesn't sit right with me personally...