Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

I guess the question I would have to ask is if Gibbs left and another coach came in and again it didnt work out so Gibbs said he'll come back for a 3rd time, would skins fans be excited?

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

I respect your opinion. However, I don't agree with it in this instance. I would definitely keep Coach Williams. I'm sure he is making a list of good players and not-so-good players ... and checking it twice.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

This has just been a season of everything that could possibly go wrong, went wrong. Yes It has been difficult to deal with, but all teams go thru a process like this. To fire a mainstay in the org doesn't make sense. We are trying to build stability in the organization, and it would be dumb diddly dumb to bring in a whole new defensive scheme for next year.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[QUOTE=Oakland Red;249207][URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/"]Redskins Insider[/URL]

Jason LaCanfora points out some of the serious mistakes that Gregg Williams has made in terms of personnel, and it seems that the defense is no longer playing hard under his leadership.

I think that Joe Gibbs is going to ask Williams to leave after the season. There isn't any way we can go forward with him at the helm. The players don't seem to respond to him, he has made some very poor personnel decisions, his fairness is in question, and the field tactics he uses may no longer be adequate.[/QUOTE]

This is absolutely rediculous...He carried the team the 1st couple seasons and now after one bad year he is overboard. I would give him a lesser say in talent evaluation but I would not let him go as coach.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[QUOTE=celts32;249475]This is absolutely rediculous...He carried the team the 1st couple seasons and now after one bad year he is overboard. I would give him a lesser say in talent evaluation but I would not let him go as coach.[/QUOTE]

Too right. Williams kept this team afloat by building one of the best defenses in the league with a pretty average set of players. Realistically, he has one very good player (Washington) and one possibly great player (Taylor) and a lot of servicable players and he managed to create a great D. This year has been poor and he may have made mistakes but he has proved that he knows what he is doing. To get rid of him would be madness.

On the issue of bringing the FAs in, how much say did he have?

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;249260]Yeah, the irony is people want to make all these widespread wholesale changes yet at the same time complain that the organization has no stability and patience[/QUOTE]



I really do not underdtand the constant contradiction. I concur with you that we constantly complain about the change and turnover leading to instability, but at the same time when things do not go as planned (or the way we think they should) we want to fire or get rid of someone we feel responsible. So far this season just about everyone associated with the team should be fired including the owner based on what I read here week in and week out. I guess it's just the frustration from loosing.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[quote=TAFKAS;249260]Yeah, the irony is people want to make all these widespread wholesale changes yet at the same time complain that the organization has no stability and patience[/quote]

Agreed. It's like fans of the Redskins have adopted Snyder's approach at fixing problems. I don't get it.

And as far as Williams, I do think he should take the majority of the blame for the poor performance of the defense, since he's the one pulling the strings. I also think he should be the one to fix the problems. He's had several top ten defenses in his career, two in the three seasons he's been in Washington, so I don't think he has all of the sudden forgotten how to coach a defense.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

These overreactions represent the inability of some fans to accept and cope with loss. They do not want to admit that the team just plain sucks so they engage in absurd rationalizations. It's the QB, it's the coaches, it's the all-white unis.

Grow up and accept things the way they are. We suck, so enjoy the rest of the season for it's own sake. Williams may leave but he won't be fired. Saunders will not be fired. We probably will not be signing any big free-agents. We are looking at a multi-year process to restore our defense, develop Campbell, and become a contender again. Deal with it.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

The redskins dont do anything multi- year. That would require building on a foundation that has been laid and building slowly is something that this organization has proved over and over again it has no interest in doing.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[quote=SkinsLove24/7;249216]Wow. Talk about jumping the gun here. Think of the past two seasons under GW. The defense has been lights out. We were all so happy when we inked him for an extension in the offseason. If anyone made mistakes it was Snyder going out and attempting to upgrade the defense when it either wasn't needed and basically didn't work. The problem this season seems to be basically just a lack of skill on defense. I don't think this is GW's fault. Letting him go could be the worst move the team could make at this point.[/quote]

Lights out? last year? don't think so...the rankings system is flawed, the skins always give up a ton of yards at the most inopportune times...and points when we need a stand. this is how its been this year and last year. As for snyder's influence, true in the past, not true recently...Williams wanted these guys...he asked for them...
my whole problem with williams is that he refuses to alter his scheme to fit his players, rather he sticks to his ridged philosophy...the great coaches get the most out of their players...they design plans where their players can excel, williams (nor saunders- but i'll give him time) is not doing that. he's so blinded by his own genius that he won't do whats best for the team...which is to alter the system catered towards individual strengths.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

If we blow up our staff or roster AGAIN I'm going to have to choke someone.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

I wouldn't put one person's reactoin to a bad season on the rest of us. No one really wants us to fire greg williams. ONE PERSON said that. Almost everyone has disagreed with that statement, there is no reason to change the coaching personnel. Most of the talk has been about getting better defensive talent, most fans would agree that we don't have enough talent on D.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

Carlos Rogers Again gave up big play after big play...terrible...

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;249550]If we blow up our staff or roster AGAIN I'm going to have to choke someone.[/QUOTE]

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a b*tch

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

hahahaha

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[quote=Oakland Red;249207][URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/"]Redskins Insider[/URL]

Jason LaCanfora points out some of the serious mistakes that Gregg Williams has made in terms of personnel, and it seems that the defense is no longer playing hard under his leadership.

I think that Joe Gibbs is going to ask Williams to leave after the season. There isn't any way we can go forward with him at the helm. The players don't seem to respond to him, he has made some very poor personnel decisions, his fairness is in question, and the field tactics he uses may no longer be adequate.[/quote]

thats re-tall-did

your an idiot

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

GW of course was overly confident about his ability to plug people in and have them contribute. This year he blew it, but he's had a lot more successes than failures. Pierce was a backup outside linebacker stuck behind LaVar before GW. Matt Bowen was just as bad as AA in coverage and even worse in run support before GW came here, and before Bowen broke his leg he was leading the team in sacks. Cornelius Griffin, stud. Marcus Washington, stud. Shawn Sprins, stud. I mean did anyone outside of DC and his immediate family even know who Pierce was before GW? Or Ryan Clark?

I'm for stability, because I can't think of a single team that won with a revolving door. Even the Fire Sale Florida Marlins keep a team together for a few years and THEN dump folks. To think we could have kept Ryan Clark for less than AA's bonus makes me ill. But it makes sense, the revenues that Snyder brings in allows him to have this "Fugg u, I'll go get someone better" mentality.

I think the problem with our defense is that we have too many fat cats on defense. Fat cats would rather just eat and enjoy being fat, they aren't good at catching mice because they know they'll get fed regardless. But you get a skinny cat, feed him the bare minimum, and his instinct to eat will take over. Same with GW's defense. The principles haven't changed, full bore intensity, swarming the ball, giving urself up on every play so the team as a whole can succeed. But Snyder has set the tone here, he pays free agents and not Redskins, so its tough to get guys to really lay it on the line. I totally buy Snyder saying "we've learned our lesson" and then making AA the highest paid safefty in history.

We are our own worst enemy.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

I believe it would be a major mistake for Gibbs to relieve either Williams or Saunders. The guys who should go are Gibbs cronies and hangers-on (Breaux, Simmons, etc). There are entirely too many cooks in the kitchen. If anything, let's keep coordinators in place for more than a couple seasons, find out which players want to be part of the solution, and rebuild from the trenches out via THE DRAFT. Missing on draft picks is far less damaging to the cap situation than missing on high priced free agents.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

Here's the problem with the defense...

[B]Cornelius Griffin: [/B]He's old. He was hot his first year in NY, then fizzled. The same thing is happening here.

[B]Joe Salave'a:[/B] He's old. He was out of football for nearly two years. He would have been fine in rotation, but he's too old, and to often injured to be a full time starter at D-tackle.

[B]Philip Daniels:[/B] He's old. He was a castoff from another team. Save for his explosion against Dallas last year, he's been taking up space.

[B]Renaldo Wynn: [/B]He was old like three seasons ago. Can anyone explain to me how he's still on the team? Oh wait ... that's right. [I]He’s a great leader.[/I]

[B]Andre Carter:[/B] He's a bust. And please, PLEASE – spare me the newest line of B.S. that the reason he's not getting sacks is because of the D-tackles. He averaged 4.5 sacks a year in San Fran, and it's doubtful he’ll get that much in Washington.

[B]Shawn Springs:[/B] Guess what? He's old too. I know he's a fan favorite, as are many on this list. But it’s time to face facts – most guys who play in this league cannot be competitive well past their 40's like Darrell Green was. Something tells me that there are people in this organization who believe they can count on Springs for the next ten years without missing a beat. He can't.

I’m not saying Williams is blameless. Any team with a record of 3-7 have coaches with some 'splaining to do. But when you're entire defensive line is old, your top cornerback is old, and the other corner is turning out to be a complete bust, you will have a bad defense. It's that simple. When Gregg Williams has the "Director of Player Personnel" behind his name, then we can talk about canning him.

Until then, let's lay off Gregg Williams.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;249662]When Gregg Williams has the "Director of Player Personnel" behind his name, then we can talk about canning him.

Until then, let's lay off Gregg Williams.[/QUOTE]

I have repeatedly defended Williams and will continue to do so. However, as the Post recently pointed out, Williams' hands are all over the personnel decisions.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;249665]I have repeatedly defended Williams and will continue to do so. However, as the Post recently pointed out, Williams' hands are all over the personnel decisions.[/QUOTE]

I don't believe everything the Post says. This pattern started long before Williams was ever employed here.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;249667]I don't believe everything the Post says. This pattern started long before Williams was ever employed here.[/QUOTE]

Gibbs is in control of player personnel and I think Gibbs is the type of guy who would be willing to defer to Williams on matters of defense (incl. player acquisition).

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

i also am sick of people wanting quick fixes. we need to stop signing free agents and sign our studs who are becomeing f.a ex.pierce,smoot. if anyone snyder is to blame by bringing in high dollar names not high dollar talent

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

I don't think Gregg Williams should be fired by any means. However, there were times last year when I found myself wondering "what kind of a defensive scheme is that?" Sometimes it seems like he relies too much on Sean Taylor's athleticism. Granted, that is a huge advantage to have but sometimes it seemed like last season he wasn't getting the corners deep enough and the safeties were trying to cover too much ground. However, last year those blitzes consistently got to the QB. Now it seems like nothing is working (on either side of the ball) so I don't think you can have this knee jerk reaction and fire the guy.

I do, however, think that this football team's lack of heart/fire/tackling ability/whatever you want to call it is a direct reflection of the coaching staff. How many teams come out and make the stupid mistakes the Skins do? How can you look at that team and say "that's a well coached team?" You can't. The only reason coaches aren't blamed here is because it's Gibbs and Williams. Saunders has a proven track record and we throw him under the bus. (I have own opinions about that, but I'm not gonna get into them) I think that whatever is going on, the coaches are getting the players prepared. The Skins are doing a lot of the little things wrong and it's hard to win football games that way. When you make stupid penalties and mental mistakes, I don't feel like that's all the players failures.

What's so strange about all this is that we all know that Gibbs, Williams, Saunders & co didn't forget how to coach. We also know that Washington, Taylor, Springs, & co didn't forget how to play. So what the hell's going on? The NFL is a fickle beast and winning is tough to maintain.

I think that a big problem has been the constant acquisitions. Be they coaches or the replacing of role players with supposed superstars. Every guy on the team can't try to make every play. There's only one football. (I mean that metaphorically, it applies to the D as well) It's obvious that the team is missing something, what that is I don't know.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[quote=SkinsLove24/7;249216]Wow. Talk about jumping the gun here. Think of the past two seasons under GW. The defense has been lights out. We were all so happy when we inked him for an extension in the offseason. If anyone made mistakes it was Snyder going out and attempting to upgrade the defense when it either wasn't needed and basically didn't work. The problem this season seems to be basically just a lack of skill on defense. I don't think this is GW's fault. Letting him go could be the worst move the team could make at this point.[/quote]

So true. When they say this a "what have you done for me lately league," they are right. Do you not remember the 2004 and 2005 Redskins Defense? It is having the same problems that the 2004 Redskins offense had, and the next year the offense came out swinging. I HOPE TO GOD GREGG WILLIAMS STAYS. It would be a sad day in Redskins history if we cut him loose. I guarentee, we will make a splash in Free Agency this year, and draft some good defensive backs, and the Defense will come out swinging.

The inconsistancy in the Redskins coaching staff could be what has hurt the team the most since Gibbs' last tenure at the helm. The Defense will bounce back, I have no doubt.

Side Note: Gregg Williams had this happen to him once when he was in Tennessee and the next year the Defense took the Titans to the Super Bowl.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

GW is a fine coach, but his input on personnel has not gone so well, and numerous sources have concluded that his input was big. i actually think gibbs needs to separate himself from the coaches more or hire a GM. we need someone who will say, "no. sorry. suck on it."

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

All I can say is, I am glad Cambell is finally in there, but our offense is not the reason we are 3-7. We are 3-7 because of our Th ranked defense. The next move Williams is probably going to make is to take Carter out of the starting line up. Then we will have 65 million on the bench.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

The last thing we need to do is put any of the main coaches out on their ear. That's been the birthmark for the skins consistent failure since Snyder bought the team. The keys to building a 'dynasty' or a winning tradition are consistency and continuity (and winning).

I understand that player turnover is inevitable in the age of free agency but people simply aren't plug n play. How much turnover is too much so that it destroys the continuity and cohesiveness of team? I don't know for sure, but I think that is one of the issues we're experiencing this year.

Certainly, poor decision making in the signing of free agents has especially hurt the defense. Archuleta has turned into a major mistake along with the failure to resign Ryan Clark. Carter is grossly underperforming as well.

Injuries have really exposed our defense early on in the season as well. It's pretty obvious we sorely missed Springs at corner and it seems there was a major drop off in talent after Prioleau in the depth chart. Losing him the first play of the season put a dent in our DB depth.

While it may be necessary to adjust personnel duties within the organization, I don't think throwing GW under the bus solves any of the issues I've outlined so I can't see how ousting him is going to solve our defensive problems.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

Remember last year when we all thought he was awesome and we had to, had to, had to keep him? And the Skins paid him handsomely to get him to stay? I remember that. I was stoked that he stayed with the Skins despite having possible opportunities elsewhere. I think he's an asset to the team, we are lucky to have him. If it aint stressing you out, it aint skins football, yeah, the team is lousy this year but I don't think firing one of the best defensive coaches in football is the answer.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

Its real easy to blame GW for all the defensive short comings. Coaches coach and players play. I think we made so mistakes as far as personnel go such as letting ryan clark go and signing AA to replace him and not to mention what i see as the most glaring loss on in the defense...losing pierson priealou (not sure on the spelling). One final thought I think Lemar Marshall has been exposed. I see MLB as a position that needs to see a change. and please play rocky in place of Holdman.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

coaches in this league don't all of a sudden forget how to coach. injuries, and bad player acquisitions are the problem

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

Williams has fielded top defenses in this league for a long time. Letting him go would be about the stupidist thing the team could do. Our defense is having an off year, but trhey will improve.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

We need to address our defensive line, and it needs to be done through the draft. We should probably use every we pick we have on defensive players, linemen first and formost, then DBs and LBs. We seem to be short corners, which is something that needs to be addressed.

If we could actual generate a pass rush, or have a defensive line that could slow down the oppositions running game, all other aspects of the defense will look better. I know this is stating the obvious but given the lack of focus at Redskins park, it is worth stating.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[quote=jdlea;249686]The only reason coaches aren't blamed here is because it's Gibbs and Williams. [/quote]

LOL, Williams and Gibbs are being roasted by most in the media and many fans. In many cases it is probably more than they deserve.

People forget the fickle nature of the NFL. Teams are up one season and down the next. Take the Bucs for example, they don't bring in many FA's every year and yet they fell just like we did. In spite of this well known fact, everyone seems to think that all our problems will be solved if we just start "building through the draft". Newsflash: 31 teams attempt to build through the draft and not all of them are good.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[quote=Jason72;249757]LOL, Williams and Gibbs are being roasted by most in the media and many fans. In many cases it is probably more than they deserve.

People forget the fickle nature of the NFL. Teams are up one season and down the next. Take the Bucs for example, they don't bring in many FA's every year and yet they fell just like we did. In spite of this well known fact, everyone seems to think that all our problems will be solved if we just start "building through the draft". Newsflash: 31 teams attempt to build through the draft and not all of them are good.[/quote]

Other teams build in the draft, and all of them have good seasons here or there. We never have good seasons, cause we are always rebuilding. With old washed up FAs, you always must rebuild at year end.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[QUOTE=Jason72;249757]LOL, Williams and Gibbs are being roasted by most in the media and many fans. In many cases it is probably more than they deserve.

People forget the fickle nature of the NFL. Teams are up one season and down the next. Take the Bucs for example, they don't bring in many FA's every year and yet they fell just like we did. In spite of this well known fact, everyone seems to think that all our problems will be solved if we just start "building through the draft". Newsflash: 31 teams attempt to build through the draft and not all of them are good.[/QUOTE]

Dude, I said the NFL is a fickle beast in my post...lol. I still think a lot of fans pull punches out of respect for Gibbs and Williams. If this were Steve Spurrier and Marvin Lewis, they wouldn't be getting this kind of leeway.

However, I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. These guys have earned the right to stay through a bad season. Firing the coaches would be a horrible idea right now.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[quote=jdlea;249810]

These guys have earned the right to stay through a bad season. Firing the coaches would be a horrible idea right now.[/quote]
i totally agree, although i think coach gibbs needs to be more involved in the every day coaching part of it

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[QUOTE=Jason72;249757] ... Take the Bucs for example, they don't bring in many FA's every year and yet they fell just like we did. In spite of this well known fact, [B]everyone seems to think that all our problems will be solved if we just start "building through the draft". Newsflash: 31 teams attempt to build through the draft and not all of them are good.[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone suggests that having a full complement of draft picks will magically turn the Redskins around. In fact, their history with draft picks has been notoriously bad except for a few here and there.

The issue is, that of the two strategies, we know which one clearly doesn't work -- but this organization simply refuses to see it, but they do the same thing year after year, expecting a different result.

There has to be a monumental shift in the personnel decision making with this team. One can only hope that a business man as savvy as Dan Snyder is will someday recognize it, and he'll turn things over to the professionals. And unfortunately, that doesn't include Joe Gibbs.

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;249776]Other teams build in the draft, and all of them have good seasons here or there. We never have good seasons, cause we are always rebuilding. With old washed up FAs, you always must rebuild at year end.[/quote]

We never have good seasons? Did you sleep through 2005?

Re: Gregg Williams has to go
 

[quote=Beemnseven;249895]I don't think anyone suggests that having a full complement of draft picks will magically turn the Redskins around. In fact, their history with draft picks has been notoriously bad except for a few here and there.

The issue is, that of the two strategies, we know which one clearly doesn't work -- but this organization simply refuses to see it, but they do the same thing year after year, expecting a different result.

There has to be a monumental shift in the personnel decision making with this team. One can only hope that a business man as savvy as Dan Snyder is will someday recognize it, and he'll turn things over to the professionals. [B]And unfortunately, that doesn't include Joe Gibbs[/B].[/quote]

Wow, what a statement. The truth is the first two years of this regime brought mostly great player acquisitions, including some good draft choices such as Cooley and Taylor. Charley Casserly spent the 90's attempting to build through the draft and it was the worst era in recent Redskins history.

My point was and is that you don't have to follow the herd. You can build a very effective team through FA if you do it right. It's no different than drafting, you have to pick the right guys. They missed this year, just like many teams will discover they missed at their drafting. Mark my words, Gibbs will get this thing right before he leaves!