Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;256102]That's the bottom line. Production. Clark was one tough as nails SOB who produced. You could count on him week in and week out. Sore hamstring or not he was going to be out there. So you put up with his antics as long as he does his thing on Sun. LLoyd? WTF has he done for anyone to tolerate his tantrums?[/QUOTE]

Do you expect him to be happy that he's getting thrown to 4 times a game?

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=firstdown;256108]No you said that he has a bad attitude and its starting to show and that he is bad mouthing everybody in the locker room. Please show us your evidence that this is happening. If you are going to post stuff like facts then show us where you get this information. If thats your opinion with no evidence then let it be known. By starting your statment like "I get the feeling he has a bad attitude".[/quote]

It was reported on Sports Talk 980 yesterday and today that he is running his mouth in the locker room along with his sideline tantrums. So I guess they have a source and I believe it 100%. Plus Gibbs is having TWO one on on meetings with him within 24 hours about some issues. This is what Gibbs said. Do you think Gibbs is going to meet with the guy twice within 24 hours for throwing his helmet? I think there is more to it than that. Look at his past? He did the same crap in SF and the same things were reported there. It was reported that he was more concerned with his dreadlocks and music career than getting better and concentrating on football. One of their fullbacks ( I can't remember the guys name ) said this about both LLoyd and Barlow. I read the quotes in a football magazine. It's no wonder that both of them are gone and SF seems better without them. This stuff was reported and I believe it. SF could not wait to get rid of the guy.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;256115]...One of their fullbacks ( I can't remember the guys name ) said this about both LLoyd and Barlow. I read the quotes in a football magazine. It's no wonder that both of them are gone and SF seems better without them. This stuff was reported and I believe it. SF could not wait to get rid of the guy.[/quote]

If SF was so worried about getting rid of bad character guys, then why did

they sign Antonio Bryant? I think questioning Lloyd's character at this

point is a little premature.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;256115]It was reported on Sports Talk 980 yesterday and today that he is running his mouth in the locker room along with his sideline tantrums. So I guess they have a source and I believe it 100%. Plus Gibbs is having TWO one on on meetings with him within 24 hours about some issues. This is what Gibbs said. Do you think Gibbs is going to meet with the guy twice within 24 hours for throwing his helmet? I think there is more to it than that. Look at his past? He did the same crap in SF and the same things were reported there. It was reported that he was more concerned with his dreadlocks and music career than getting better and concentrating on football. One of their fullbacks ( I can't remember the guys name ) said this about both LLoyd and Barlow. I read the quotes in a football magazine. It's no wonder that both of them are gone and SF seems better without them. This stuff was reported and I believe it. SF could not wait to get rid of the guy.[/quote]
He has done nothing all season to say that he has a bad attitude. If he was mad with the way we ran the last few minutes of the game I think that most of us felt the same way so I give him a buy on that one.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

Lloyd was in a pissy mood from the moment he arrived to FedEx Field on Sunday. He parked diagonal (in the players lot), taking up two parking spaces. Granted, he's driven to all of the home games therefore, he KNEW better. When the security officer asked him to move his car, he gave him lip.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=Cheerful1;256194]Lloyd was in a pissy mood from the moment he arrived to FedEx Field on Sunday. He parked diagonal (in the players lot), taking up two parking spaces. Granted, he's driven to all of the home games therefore, he KNEW better. When the security officer asked him to move his car, he gave him lip.[/quote]
I have to ask how do you know this?

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

Because I was there.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

Let's find out all the facts before we crucify him. To say that he hasn't produced just isn't fair. Let's say for example Al S. had him on his Chiefs team last year. Would he have produced? My guess would be yes.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=redsk1;256232]Let's find out all the facts before we crucify him. To say that he hasn't produced just isn't fair. Let's say for example Al S. had him on his Chiefs team last year. Would he have produced? My guess would be yes.[/quote]

Good idea, let's reserve our ultimate judgement until we know some more info.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

David Patten has injury problems, he's missed most of the last two seasons. Today we have systematically dised both Lloyd, and Ranlde El which means we're down to Moss and Thrash. What are we going to do?

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

I am very sad about all this Lloyd stuff because he is one of my favorites. I love his passion, and he always seems like he does well in the few chances he gets to make plays. I think he blocks, catches, all the dirty work. I still feel he never even gets the ball thrown towards him. It is ok now, because Campbell is young, but Lloyd really got F'ed over by Brunell, who only threw to Moss and Cooley because he sucked.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=hooskins;256261]I am very sad about all this Lloyd stuff because he is one of my favorites. I love his passion, and he always seems like he does well in the few chances he gets to make plays. I think he blocks, catches, all the dirty work. I still feel he never even gets the ball thrown towards him. It is ok now, because Campbell is young, but Lloyd really got F'ed over by Brunell, who only threw to Moss and Cooley because he sucked.[/quote]
Yes, all Brunells fault like when JC was only looking for Moss as Colley was wide open in the middle of the field twice as we needed a quick TD. Its time we quite blamming all of our problems on MB the all mighty one JC has not shown us anything more than what MB did. OK so Brunell has more years of experence but as I always read he sucks, weak arm, scared,slow and everything else that he gets blammed for. JC has youth, strong arm, fast, tall and he cannot out produce MB who you say sucks.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=firstdown;256281]Yes, all Brunells fault like when JC was only looking for Moss as Colley was wide open in the middle of the field twice as we needed a quick TD. Its time we quite blamming all of our problems on MB the all mighty one JC has not shown us anything more than what MB did. OK so Brunell has more years of experence but as I always read he sucks, weak arm, scared,slow and everything else that he gets blammed for. JC has youth, strong arm, fast, tall and he cannot out produce MB who you say sucks.[/quote]
I will continue to say Brunell sucks, because he does. But just because he sucks doesnt make JC automatically good. If you read my thread about JC's inexperience I clearly mention numerous flaws that Campbell has, so I have no idea where you are going with that.

EDIT: I am 30 times harshing on Brunell because he is a freaking vet, they arent suppose to play like 2nd year QBs. I expected much more out of Brunell, and I am very disappointed.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;256283]I will continue to say Brunell sucks, because he does. But just because he sucks doesnt make JC automatically good. If you read my thread about JC's inexperience I clearly mention numerous flaws that Campbell has, so I have no idea where you are going with that.

EDIT: I am 30 times harshing on Brunell because he is a freaking vet, they arent suppose to play like 2nd year QBs. I expected much more out of Brunell, and I am very disappointed.[/QUOTE]

Let it go man. This thread isn't about Brunell, Campbell, Ramsey, Frerotte, Shuler, Banks, George, etc.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=hooskins;256283]I will continue to say Brunell sucks, because he does. But just because he sucks doesnt make JC automatically good. If you read my thread about JC's inexperience I clearly mention numerous flaws that Campbell has, so I have no idea where you are going with that.[/quote]
Maybe its just so dam old to keep hearing about how everything is MB fault. My point was if he suck that bad and JC cannot even produce his numbers where the hell is this going to go. The truth is that our team has sucked this year and it seems as everyone has stepped in the same I suck puddle.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;256285]Let it go man. This thread isn't about Brunell, Campbell, Ramsey, Frerotte, Shuler, Banks, George, etc.[/quote]Now that you bring it up if Brunell sucks that bad and Ramsey can't take his job then how bad does Ramsey suck?

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=firstdown;256287]Maybe its just so dam old to keep hearing about how everything is MB fault. My point was if he suck that bad and JC cannot even produce his numbers where the hell is this going to go. The truth is that our team has sucked this year and it seems as everyone has stepped in the same I suck puddle.[/quote]
I see where you are coming from, but it is obvious that Brunell will never be better than he is right now. But Campbell, being young, has the potential of improving and becoming much better. You cannot seriously make a judgement about Campbell after his first 3 games.

I think the problem here is that everyone here is looking for a Big Ben, Brady, or Romo(who isnt even a very young qb, I am fucking sick of the media raving about how he is a great QB, even though he has had tons of reps on the practice field for years). Those kinda QBs are a dime in a dozen, and sitting there hoping for one will just make you crazy. You have to develop most NFL QBs.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=hooskins;256291]I see where you are coming from, but it is obvious that Brunell will never be better than he is right now. But Campbell, being young, has the potential of improving and becoming much better. You cannot seriously make a judgement about Campbell after his first 3 games.

I think the problem here is that everyone here is looking for a Big Ben, Brady, or Romo(who isnt even a very young qb, I am fucking sick of the media raving about how he is a great QB, even though he has had tons of reps on the practice field for years). Those kinda QBs are a dime in a dozen, and sitting there hoping for one will just make you crazy. You have to develop most NFL QBs.[/quote]
No I understand that JC is not going to light up the world after just three games. Yes, I know that it was time to switch QB and to start to look to our future. So we agree on those to things. I just get tired of all the MB sucks so everything is his fault. Maybe, it is but its just old. By the way I hate to say this Romo has lived up to all his hype. Yes, he could fall flat on his face anytime (which I hope he does) but so far I've been impressed.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

Even though I feel Brunell wasnt so great, I do realize he got the short end of the stick because our D sucked. If our D plays well, then any QB looks good. I am positive if we had the D we did last year, Brunell would still be in, and we would be a playoff contender.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=hooskins;256294]Even though I feel Brunell wasnt so great, I do realize he got the short end of the stick because our D sucked. If our D plays well, then any QB looks good. I am positive if we had the D we did last year, Brunell would still be in, and we would be a playoff contender.[/quote]
If you but the two together. Our D could not stop anyone and our O could not stay on the field so theres enough blame to go around. But. hey theres 4 more games to go and if we win all of them and lighting strikes 1,000 times we still have a chance. LOL

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=Cheerful1;256222]Because I was there.[/quote]

Typical. What kind of a-hole double parks his car and then berates the parking attendent? It's just little things like that. If anyone gets a chance go to washingtonpost.com and read today's article about LLoyd. All I have to say about Lloyd is shut up and ball.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

All recievers drop balls. I am glad someone shows disgust in the way the Redskins are playing.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

Why would anyone expect these two wr's to put up big numbers here , when they have not done it in Sf and Pittsburgh ? Loyd is only good for a few deep passes a year , and R El averaged around 35 catches / year . They screwed up trading a 3rd and 4th for loyd .

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[QUOTE=chris36;256368]All recievers drop balls. I am glad someone shows disgust in the way the Redskins are playing.[/QUOTE]

Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black? Lloyd has made as many good plays as he has bad ones.....just like the rest of the team. It would be one thing if he was just getting pissed at himself, but it sounds like he's venting on teammates.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;256337]Typical. What kind of a-hole double parks his car and then berates the parking attendent? It's just little things like that. If anyone gets a chance go to washingtonpost.com and read today's article about LLoyd. All I have to say about Lloyd is shut up and ball.[/quote]
The security officer stood his ground and the end result was Lloyd moving his car to a secluded parking space, next to the fence. I guess he has little trust in his fellow teammates; as they're the only ones allowed to park in that section. (Unless he's the "whistle-blower" behind Friends article.)
Needless to say, there was probably 300 fans who witnessed the ordeal. A few spectators cracked jokes, saying that his car must be on a lease program and based on the teams preformance this year, he can't afford to pay for any scratches.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=Citizens for 81;256123]If SF was so worried about getting rid of bad character guys, then why did

they sign Antonio Bryant? I think questioning Lloyd's character at this

point is a little premature.[/quote]

I didn't say they were worried about character guys. Every team has some headcases. All I said was that they wanted LLoyd and Barlow gone. Perhaps A. Bryant is a hard worker and a good locker room guy who just pops off once in a while. Perhaps SF believes Barlow is more talented than LLoyd Who knows?

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=redsk1;255917]Exactly how many passes get thrown his way? I gotta disagree here. It's not his fault we don't have anyone to get the ball to him. I can recall one, maybe two he has dropped.[/quote]

Lloyd through Week 13:

Looks = 53
Receptions = 20
Catch % = 38%


Sure, not ALL of them were drops, but quite a few were and some can also be attributed to missing routes, not being able to get open or miscommunication that could be his fault or the QBs, or both.

In comparison, Santana Moss this year (with the same QBs):
Looks = 71
Receptions = 41
Catch % = 58%

Cooley (who we know has been dropping passes):
Looks = 67
Receptions = 37
Catch % = 55%

Randel El (who gets a lot of handoffs instead of passes):
Looks = 39
Receptions = 22
Catch % = 56%

Ladell Betts (receiving):
Looks = 47
Receptions = 40
Catch % = 85%



As you can see, Lloyd's catch % is WAY below everyone else's. It can't be the QB's problem because everyone else is about equal, except for Betts because most of his passes are shorter since he's coming out of the backfield.

[SIZE=1]*Stats calculated by Buster :)[/SIZE]

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

^ Thread killer. Oops! :D

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

Buster, how do you factor in things like if the ball was headed in Lloyd's direction but sailed out of bounds, or was intercepted before it got to him? Those would count as looks right, but shouldn't as drops I don't think.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

Even Brunell had a pissed look on his face several weeks back when he threw to Loyd & he didn't adjust to the ball. It looked like MB was mad that he didn't complete the route.
Good route running is hard work & often requires precision on the part of wr & qb. Speed & hands get wr's into the nfl, but route running separates the good ones from the rest. I just don't think Loyd looks like he's in sync w/coverages & his responsiblities. Maybe a yr. in the system will change that.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=Buster;256626]Lloyd through Week 13:

Looks = 53
Receptions = 20
Catch % = 38%


Sure, not ALL of them were drops, but quite a few were and some can also be attributed to missing routes, not being able to get open or miscommunication that could be his fault or the QBs, or both.

In comparison, Santana Moss this year (with the same QBs):
Looks = 71
Receptions = 41
Catch % = 58%

Cooley (who we know has been dropping passes):
Looks = 67
Receptions = 37
Catch % = 55%

Randel El (who gets a lot of handoffs instead of passes):
Looks = 39
Receptions = 22
Catch % = 56%

Ladell Betts (receiving):
Looks = 47
Receptions = 40
Catch % = 85%



As you can see, Lloyd's catch % is WAY below everyone else's. It can't be the QB's problem because everyone else is about equal, except for Betts because most of his passes are shorter since he's coming out of the backfield.

[SIZE=1]*Stats calculated by Buster :)[/SIZE][/quote]

Just from watching every game, i can't recall more than a couple dropped passes from Lloyd. Maybe i'm wrong. I remember alot of misthrows-maybe he is not running good routes but it looks as though these throws are one hopping to him or over his head.

It seems like whenever we throw to him good things happen. There was a thread a few weeks ago that eluded to this, i believe. It just doesn't seem like Lloyd gets many catchable balls his way.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;257034]Buster, how do you factor in things like if the ball was headed in Lloyd's direction but sailed out of bounds, or was intercepted before it got to him? Those would count as looks right, but shouldn't as drops I don't think.[/quote]

No, I stated that I know they're not ALL drops...but we can't possibly think that both Brunell and Campbell are only throwing bad balls to Lloyd. Moss is even smaller than he is, I believe, so that can't be an issue with overthrows.

The stat that he's only catching about half of the throws of everyone else is just alarming. It CAN'T be a fluke.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

[QUOTE=Buster;257054]No, I stated that I know they're not ALL drops...but we can't possibly think that both Brunell and Campbell are only throwing bad balls to Lloyd.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok. I missed that part of it. Thanks

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

He is our downfield guy, he only get midrange and deep looks, while moss and randle el get a lot more short balls, so the % may be skewed, but still, very bad % on his part.

Re: What was the LLoyd vs ARE arguement about at the end of the game?
 

Out of curiosity, do you know what this stat is for Thrash? (Patten hasn't played enough to be of interest.)

[QUOTE=Buster;256626]Lloyd through Week 13:

Looks = 53
Receptions = 20
Catch % = 38%


Sure, not ALL of them were drops, but quite a few were and some can also be attributed to missing routes, not being able to get open or miscommunication that could be his fault or the QBs, or both.

In comparison, Santana Moss this year (with the same QBs):
Looks = 71
Receptions = 41
Catch % = 58%

Cooley (who we know has been dropping passes):
Looks = 67
Receptions = 37
Catch % = 55%

Randel El (who gets a lot of handoffs instead of passes):
Looks = 39
Receptions = 22
Catch % = 56%

Ladell Betts (receiving):
Looks = 47
Receptions = 40
Catch % = 85%



As you can see, Lloyd's catch % is WAY below everyone else's. It can't be the QB's problem because everyone else is about equal, except for Betts because most of his passes are shorter since he's coming out of the backfield.

[SIZE=1]*Stats calculated by Buster :)[/SIZE][/QUOTE]