Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=irish;260106]So you are basically satisfied with how everything is going so far?[/QUOTE]

I think bailing on guys like Rogers, Golston, Rocky, Campbell and not allowing them to develop is not the way to go. It would be ironic to say we should to that since so many fans complain the Redskins have no patience

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;260098]True that it's been a huge task to adjust to the new nfl, but don't you think Gibbs has shown his ability to make changes? He has been upfront & honest about the transition. Of course w/the way things have gone this year no one will applaud him for hiring Saunders. But when the O starts rolling (& it will) people will look back at it as a savvy move. Same thing w/JC, a very forward thinking move.
This year Gibbs will have to live w/criticism of this 06 FA class & mismanagment of his coaching staff (see the T.Friend article), but after each year he's shown that he is willing to adapt to the circumstances of the new nfl. I have faith in him to learn from this year & put together a season to rival or better 05.
My only significant complaints were aired in yesterday's - A Tale of Two Teams thread - I don't disagree w/going after FAs, just not at the expense of our most valuable picks & future cap $. I do believe that Gibbs may see a need for change in this area too. Remember that before the 05 season we had few signings, only Rabach & Patten were significant. I even think that Snyder would allow Gibbs to hire a GM to take over after he retires. Something tells me that this time around part of his job is to leave a blueprint in place for the organization beyond his years.[/QUOTE]

I agree that Gibbs is willing to make changes but I wonder if he is making the right changes. The O was starting to click at the end of last year but instead of trying to build on it Gibbs fired himself and hired AS. Its a change but the jury is still out whether it was good or not.

I also dont understand why the organization has to wait for Gibbs to retire to hire a GM. They need one now. I understand that Gibbs is trying to leave a blueprint but to me that means more rebuilding a growth seasons. This organization has been stringing its fans along with "next years" and "retool" for quite some time now and I thing to ask them to sign on for a few more years of rebuilding under the current group (that has not exactly inspired much confidence that they will get it right) is a lot to ask of the fans.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;260111]I think bailing on guys like Rogers, Golston, Rocky, Campbell and not allowing them to develop is not the way to go. It would be ironic to say we should to that since so many fans complain the Redskins have no patience[/QUOTE]

OK but I asked if there's satisfaction with how things have been going. So I ask you are you satisfied?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=irish;260106]So you are basically satisfied with how everything is going so far?[/QUOTE]

So we had a bad year, i dont think we need a major overhaul anywhere.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

So yes I am satisfied with the front office.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;260111]I think bailing on guys like Rogers, Golston, Rocky, Campbell and not allowing them to develop is not the way to go. It would be ironic to say we should to that since so many fans complain the Redskins have no patience[/QUOTE]

I agree...these guys have loads of talent, we need to watch them develope and take our lumps if they don't.
If we went after a key free agent CB would this hurt the development of Rogers?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=NM Redskin;260118]So yes I am satisfied with the front office.[/QUOTE]

I didnt mean the FO specifically, I meant the organization as a whole. You are satisfied?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=irish;260129]I didnt mean the FO specifically, I meant the organization as a whole. You are satisfied?[/quote]


I might add that drafting talent isn't the only responsibility of a GM. Yes, we have drafted some really good players - no arguing that. But on the flip side, we let some very good ones get away as well. That along with
the fact that we have propensity to over spend in FA points to something.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=TAFKAS;260111]I think bailing on guys like Rogers, Golston, Rocky, Campbell and not allowing them to develop is not the way to go. It would be ironic to say we should to that since so many fans complain the Redskins have no patience[/quote]

We are not bailing. Not by any means. I would say re visit this after next year.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Thank god someone speaks the truth ([url]www.czabe.com):[/url]

December 12, 2006
The Smoldering Wreck of Joe Gibbs 2.0


The Redskins lost a game to the Eagles Sunday, that they rightfully, should have won.

Boo hoo.

Matching that against the Cowboys game at home – one which they rightfully, should have lost – we’re now even-Steven.

This is the NFL. And you are what your record says you are. Which for the Redskins, is now 4-9. And they deserve every bit of that. They are a bad football team, just like the 4-9 Cardinals, 4-9 Browns, and 4-9 Texans.

I could go over all kinds of turning point moments in this game, but what does it really matter? I could rave about Ladell Betts rushing numbers, but have you seen what everybody else has been doing against the Eagles? His performance was par for the course, nothing to get that excited about.

I could praise Jason Campbell for rallying in the 2nd half, after a vomit-on-yourself first 30 minutes, but these ups and downs were to be expected from a first year starter.

Perhaps one “new” conclusion I can draw about this team’s shortcomings (and for some, it’s hardly new) is that Joe Gibbs and Company are TACTICALLY INEPT on game day. When you see a coach burn a precious second half timeout just to “think about” going for it on 4th and 2, only to then send out the field goal unit?

My god. (Ooops. Sorry Joe. My God, capital letters. Forgive me…)

Then when you are closing in for the comeback killshot, 1st and goal from the 4, and you end up with a pathetic 12 men in the huddle penalty which forced you to throw for it and get sacked. I mean, come on.

How many f’in coaches does it take to screw in a lightbulb around Redskin Park?

The telling image came when the Fox cameras zoomed in on Joe, and you saw him mouth the words: “What happened there….”

Indeed, what did happen? We were hoping Joe, you would have a better handle on those things by now. We’re in what, year three now? How long will it take?

Gibbs doesn’t seem to have the foggiest idea yet on …

a. What to challenge via replay
b. When to burn your timeouts
c. When to seize the moment by going for it on 4th down

I said before, and I’ll say it again: Gibbs is coaching like a ‘Fraidy Coach. He’s tentative, and scared much of the time. He’s scared the fans will turn on him if he doesn’t stop the buses to say hello. He’s scared his reputation is being ruined in this town. He was scared to play Jason Campbell, until calls for Brunell’s head became totally overwhelming.

Howdya like Sean Payton going for an on-sides kick while LEADING 35-17 on the road at Dallas?

Balls, my friends, balls. Giant brass knockers.

The Joe Gibbs 2.0 era will last perhaps one more year, or maybe one more month. My gut hunch (and nothing more) is that Gibbs will step down as coach after this year, citing (pick your choice)….

a. Health reasons
b. Chance to let somebody else turn it around
c. Signal from God
d. Exhaustion
e. Sincere regret that he’s screwed it all up

The column by Tom Boswell last week was interesting for one quote Gibbs had about “I’m not turnin’ loose of it, ‘til we get it right.”

Has there ever been a more flawed premise than that? What the hell does he mean by “get it right.” This is an NFL franchise, not a Rubik’s Cube. You never truly “solve” things. They keep evolving, and changing. You have to evolve with it, and work through the down cycles.

Plus, if by some chance Gibbs ever did “get it right” and the team was in the playoffs for like the 2nd or 3rd year in a row (Gasp! Who could ever imagine that!) why on earth would he want to leave then?

When Gibbs does finally leave, he will have left the team in far worse shape than when he arrived. That much is certain. The draft picks have been squandered, and the salary cap filled to within an inch of overflowing with worthless “talent.”

NBC’s Football Night in America had an interesting piece about the upcoming free agency class, and how much most teams have under their cap to spend on those players. Most teams this offseason will be – on average - $20 million or more UNDER the ’07 salary cap.

The Redskins?

Just $1.0 million under.

Grab a Snickers, Redskins fans. This team is going to be bad, for a long time to come.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Czabe with some truth... sorry that just made me laugh.

That's like Bill O'Reilly with his no spin nonsense.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;260151]Czabe with some truth... sorry that just made me laugh.

That's like Bill O'Reilly with his no spin nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Agreed!
That was just a negative view. The same was said before the 05 season and we shocked the world with that run and playoff appearance. We were supposed to have 3-5 wins (depending on whose predictions you read) and we had 10.
Next year we will be fine, then we can poop on Czabe's porch.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Sorry not gonna buy into the gloom and doom. I think the current staff will right the ship. Im I satisfied with the record ?No, but the NFL has a lot of parity so this kind of season happens.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

haha. Anything would be better than this year....I'd be happy with 8 wins next year, that's not too much to ask for in the NFC.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;260159]haha. Anything would be better than this year....I'd be happy with 8 wins next year, that's not too much to ask for in the NFC.[/QUOTE]

I won't be. I'm not happy (obviously) with 4 wins this year, and with all the money / talent / and coaching we have, I will not be happy unless we hit at least 9 wins next year...more importantly a playoff appearance.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=jsarno;260160]I won't be. I'm not happy (obviously) with 4 wins this year, and with all the money / talent / and coaching we have, I will not be happy unless we hit at least 9 wins next year...more importantly a playoff appearance.[/quote]

well, I hope your happy next year. The playoffs would be a pleasant surprise.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;260163]well, I hope your happy next year. The playoffs would be a pleasant surprise.[/QUOTE]

Wow, really? You think we're THAT far away from returning to the playoffs? Why?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Did Czabe walk in on his wife in bed with someone wearing an Andy Gibb t-shirt? So now he hates all things with the letters G-I-B-B? Talk about a pathetic rant.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=irish;260114]I agree that Gibbs is willing to make changes but I wonder if he is making the right changes. The O was starting to click at the end of last year but instead of trying to build on it Gibbs fired himself and hired AS. Its a change but the jury is still out whether it was good or not.

I also dont understand why the organization has to wait for Gibbs to retire to hire a GM. They need one now. I understand that Gibbs is trying to leave a blueprint but to me that means more rebuilding a growth seasons. This organization has been stringing its fans along with "next years" and "retool" for quite some time now and I thing to ask them to sign on for a few more years of rebuilding under the current group (that has not exactly inspired much confidence that they will get it right) is a lot to ask of the fans.[/quote]

All good points - can't argue w/the jury still being out on AS but I still think it was a shrewd move that will hopefully be looked back it favorably.
My point about the GM is that Gibbs essentially is the GM, and as someone said earlier, if he hires a GM what would he do? The challenge of coming back was to run the team as prez/coach, IMO.
The blueprint theory is this:
1) GW becomes head coach (I have my doubts after the Friend article, but that's the way his contract was structured)
2) As has near autonomy on O
3) Someone is hired to replace Gibbs when he retires as team prez.

In this scenario, Gibbs II legacy is as much about getting a coaching staff & front office structure in place as winning games. Not that I think we won't win w/Gibbs. We already have & will again!

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=jsarno;260166]Wow, really? You think we're THAT far away from returning to the playoffs? Why?[/quote]

DEFENSE

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;260190]DEFENSE[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but we were a top 10 d in 05, and we WILL address D in the offseason. Likely be the only areas we will touch.
I have faith in Williams.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

I like Williams too, If we draft well......that won't have an immediate impact. If we sign effective free agents...then maybe the defense will improve. Once the defense improves...with our running game, we can make the playoffs, but improving a bad defense can be very very difficult.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=mason4415;260149]Thank god someone speaks the truth ([URL="http://www.czabe.com):"]www.czabe.com):[/URL]

December 12, 2006
The Smoldering Wreck of Joe Gibbs 2.0


The Redskins lost a game to the Eagles Sunday, that they rightfully, should have won.

Boo hoo.

Matching that against the Cowboys game at home – one which they rightfully, should have lost – we’re now even-Steven.

This is the NFL. And you are what your record says you are. Which for the Redskins, is now 4-9. And they deserve every bit of that. They are a bad football team, just like the 4-9 Cardinals, 4-9 Browns, and 4-9 Texans.

I could go over all kinds of turning point moments in this game, but what does it really matter? I could rave about Ladell Betts rushing numbers, but have you seen what everybody else has been doing against the Eagles? His performance was par for the course, nothing to get that excited about.

I could praise Jason Campbell for rallying in the 2nd half, after a vomit-on-yourself first 30 minutes, but these ups and downs were to be expected from a first year starter.

Perhaps one “new” conclusion I can draw about this team’s shortcomings (and for some, it’s hardly new) is that Joe Gibbs and Company are TACTICALLY INEPT on game day. When you see a coach burn a precious second half timeout just to “think about” going for it on 4th and 2, only to then send out the field goal unit?

My god. (Ooops. Sorry Joe. My God, capital letters. Forgive me…)

Then when you are closing in for the comeback killshot, 1st and goal from the 4, and you end up with a pathetic 12 men in the huddle penalty which forced you to throw for it and get sacked. I mean, come on.

How many f’in coaches does it take to screw in a lightbulb around Redskin Park?

The telling image came when the Fox cameras zoomed in on Joe, and you saw him mouth the words: “What happened there….”

Indeed, what did happen? We were hoping Joe, you would have a better handle on those things by now. We’re in what, year three now? How long will it take?

Gibbs doesn’t seem to have the foggiest idea yet on …

a. What to challenge via replay
b. When to burn your timeouts
c. When to seize the moment by going for it on 4th down

I said before, and I’ll say it again: Gibbs is coaching like a ‘Fraidy Coach. He’s tentative, and scared much of the time. He’s scared the fans will turn on him if he doesn’t stop the buses to say hello. He’s scared his reputation is being ruined in this town. He was scared to play Jason Campbell, until calls for Brunell’s head became totally overwhelming.

Howdya like Sean Payton going for an on-sides kick while LEADING 35-17 on the road at Dallas?

Balls, my friends, balls. Giant brass knockers.

The Joe Gibbs 2.0 era will last perhaps one more year, or maybe one more month. My gut hunch (and nothing more) is that Gibbs will step down as coach after this year, citing (pick your choice)….

a. Health reasons
b. Chance to let somebody else turn it around
c. Signal from God
d. Exhaustion
e. Sincere regret that he’s screwed it all up

The column by Tom Boswell last week was interesting for one quote Gibbs had about “I’m not turnin’ loose of it, ‘til we get it right.”

Has there ever been a more flawed premise than that? What the hell does he mean by “get it right.” This is an NFL franchise, not a Rubik’s Cube. You never truly “solve” things. They keep evolving, and changing. You have to evolve with it, and work through the down cycles.

Plus, if by some chance Gibbs ever did “get it right” and the team was in the playoffs for like the 2nd or 3rd year in a row (Gasp! Who could ever imagine that!) why on earth would he want to leave then?

When Gibbs does finally leave, he will have left the team in far worse shape than when he arrived. That much is certain. The draft picks have been squandered, and the salary cap filled to within an inch of overflowing with worthless “talent.”

NBC’s Football Night in America had an interesting piece about the upcoming free agency class, and how much most teams have under their cap to spend on those players. Most teams this offseason will be – on average - $20 million or more UNDER the ’07 salary cap.

The Redskins?

Just $1.0 million under.

Grab a Snickers, Redskins fans. This team is going to be bad, for a long time to come.[/quote]

He has some valid points. I've been amazed at some of the in-game indecisiveness. But it fails to give Gibbs credit for last year & fails to put this into the context of today's up/down nfl,e.g parcells' record w/the boys isn't much better.
I also seriously disagree w/the last statement about leaving the team in worse shape than we he got here. Does he remember the Spurrier years?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;260195]I like Williams too, If we draft well......that won't have an immediate impact. If we sign effective free agents...then maybe the defense will improve. Once the defense improves...with our running game, we can make the playoffs, but improving a bad defense can be very very difficult.[/QUOTE]

I somewhat agree. But what we really need to do is sure up the secondary. The entire defense isn't trash, just the talent / play of the secondary. 1 key free agent there could make a huge difference. Throw in a LB with a motor, and we're in business. I just don't think we're as far away from a top 10 D as you likely think we are.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;260189]All good points - can't argue w/the jury still being out on AS but I still think it was a shrewd move that will hopefully be looked back it favorably.
My point about the GM is that Gibbs essentially is the GM, and as someone said earlier, if he hires a GM what would he do? The challenge of coming back was to run the team as prez/coach, IMO.
The blueprint theory is this:
1) GW becomes head coach (I have my doubts after the Friend article, but that's the way his contract was structured)
2) As has near autonomy on O
3) Someone is hired to replace Gibbs when he retires as team prez.

In this scenario, Gibbs II legacy is as much about getting a coaching staff & front office structure in place as winning games. Not that I think we won't win w/Gibbs. We already have & will again![/QUOTE]

I'm not sold on one GW or AS becomming the next head coach but it could happen.

So the whole Gibbs 2 experiment was to put pieces in place for some point in the future and if the teams wins thats fine but getting structure is place over 5 years is the main goal? I just dont think another 5 year rebuild is what the fans expected Gibbs to do. I think the scenario was the opposite, Gibbs was supposed to win first and lay the foundation for winning in the future.

I think that a lot of Redskin fans have gotten used to losing and as long as they get a bone (like a 5 game win streak) every now and they they think the end is in sight while in reality the organization just keeps doing what its been doing to create this culture of losing. Sure they shuffle different coaches & players in and out but the fundamental way of doing business does not change so the losing continues. As the saying goes, if you keep doing what youve always done you will keep getting what youve always got.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;260197]He has some valid points. I've been amazed at some of the in-game indecisiveness. But it fails to give Gibbs credit for last year & fails to put this into the context of today's up/down nfl,e.g parcells' record w/the boys isn't much better.
I also seriously disagree w/the last statement about leaving the team in worse shape than we he got here. Does he remember the Spurrier years?[/QUOTE]

Gibbs has only done slightly better than OBC.

OBC: 12-20 for .375
Gibbs 20-25 for .444

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=irish;260202]Gibbs has only done slightly better than OBC.

OBC: 12-20 for .375
Gibbs 20-25 for .444[/QUOTE]

How many playoff appearances for SPurrier???

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Don't you mean "how many playoff appearances for Marvin Lewis"? Spurrier didn't do anything except call 50 pass plays per game with no protection for the QB.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;260206]How many playoff appearances for SPurrier???[/QUOTE]

OBC 0 for 2
Gibbs 1 for 3

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=irish;260208]OBC 0 for 2
Gibbs 1 for 3[/quote]

I'm a Gibbs guy but the worst move Snyder made was years back. He fired Marty after 1 year. He started 0-5 and finished 8-8. With TONY BANKS!!!!! Fired him for Spurrier, horrible move.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=JDALY27;260212]I'm a Gibbs guy but the worst move Snyder made was years back. He fired Marty after 1 year. He started 0-5 and finished 8-8. With TONY BANKS!!!!! Fired him for Spurrier, horrible move.[/quote]

Then he made another horrible move by not moving Marvin Lewis to head coach.........

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=NM Redskin;260118]So yes I am satisfied with the front office.[/quote]

Your satisfied w/ the FO??? And your calling me crazy??

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;260213]Then he made another horrible move by not moving Marvin Lewis to head coach.........[/quote]

Those are two GREAT POINTS. I think if we had kept Marty things would be a lot different around here now. Say what you want about Marty but he's a damn good NFL coach. He really got the most out of Lavar. Or hired Marvin instead of SS.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;260215]Those are two GREAT POINTS. I think if we had kept Marty things would be a lot different around here now. Say what you want about Marty but he's a damn good NFL coach. He really got the most out of Lavar. Or hired Marvin instead of SS.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean? He should have fired Spurrier after one year and moved Lewis to head coach?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;259975]I want the system to stay the same because it messed up last year. (I know that sounds crazy) I think that they should now have a better feel for what works and what doesnt and what they need to do. Gibbs isnt stupid, he probably has learned from his mistakes.[/quote]
Gibbs was never a great evaluator of talent. This is the same Gibbs who said that Desmond Howard has "no holes in his game" the day the Skins drafted him. I suppose that aside from his inability to get off the line of scrimmage and his apparent lack of toughness, Howard was just great. Ironically, we could have drafted Troy Vincent in that spot - now that would've been great.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=jsarno;260155]Agreed!
That was just a negative view. The same was said before the 05 season and we shocked the world with that run and playoff appearance. We were supposed to have 3-5 wins (depending on whose predictions you read) and we had 10.
Next year we will be fine, then we can poop on Czabe's porch.[/quote]

Last season was nice. But we got to the div. playoffs. Let's not go overboard. I wouldn't call beating Phil. w/out McNabb, STL. playing it's 3rd string QB and defeating Ariz shocking the world. 05 Skins were not the 01 Pats. Let's keep it real.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=JDALY27;260212]I'm a Gibbs guy but the worst move Snyder made was years back. He fired Marty after 1 year. He started 0-5 and finished 8-8. With TONY BANKS!!!!! Fired him for Spurrier, horrible move.[/QUOTE]

You have to remember that the coach coveted most by Snyder was OBC and had OBC become available a year sooner than there would have been no Marty or had OBC waited than Marty would have stayed another year of so. Another stupid move among many for this organization.

I doubt Marty would have stayed much longer though as he recognized how screwed up the Redskins FO was (and still is) and was asking for control which Snyder was never going to give him.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=irish;260226]You have to remember that the coach coveted most by Snyder was OBC and had OBC become available a year sooner than there would have been no Marty or had OBC waited than Marty would have stayed another year of so. Another stupid move among many for this organization.

I doubt Marty would have stayed much longer though as he recognized how screwed up the Redskins FO was (and still is) and was asking for control which Snyder was never going to give him.[/quote]

Who is OBC?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

I got it. Old Ball Coach.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;260224]Last season was nice. But we got to the div. playoffs. Let's not go overboard. I wouldn't call beating Phil. w/out McNabb, STL. playing it's 3rd string QB and defeating Ariz shocking the world. 05 Skins were not the 01 Pats. Let's keep it real.[/QUOTE]

6 straight wins is shocking the world when EVERYONE counted us out twice. Preseason, then mid season.