Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=jdlea;263361]No, I never argued about the greatness of Ladell Betts, so read the site and get your facts straight! No, he's fumbled 6 goddamn times this season! What are you even talking about? Why don't you look up some stats before you decide to try to attack someone. And you know what? Clinton scores a TD on that play because he has breakaway speed...

Whatever, you guys are all right! 6 fumbles in one season where you've started upwards of 6 games should be totally excusable, especially considering 2 of them cost you a chance to win a football game. And if they don't, all of a sudden, they're 7 - 8 with a shot, albeit unlikely, of sliding into the playoffs, however undeserved it may be. So don't act like it didn't mean anything.

I've been consistent with my skepticism of Betts all year. How about you look that up before you try to accuse me of changing my tune.[/quote]

Betts has fumbled 5 times and lost 2, according to NFL.com.

Other RB's who have fumbled as much or more than Ladell this year: Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Shaun Alexander, Kevin Jones, Chester Taylor, Rudi Johnson.

Other RB's who have LOST as many or more fumbles than Ladell this year: Kevin Jones, Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Edgerrin James, Chester Taylor, Reuben Droughns, Carnell Williams, Tatum Bell, Zack Crockett, DeShaun Foster, Dominic Rhodes, Jamal Lewis, Brian Westbrook, Mack Strong, Shaun Alexander, Reggie Bush, Sammy Morris, Larry Johnson, Jameel Cook, Corey Dillon, Ronnie Brown, Fred Taylor, Ahman Green, Travis Henry, Rudi Johnson

Yeah, he sucks. He's a fumble machine.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=dgack;263460]Betts has fumbled 5 times and lost 2, according to NFL.com.

Other RB's who have fumbled as much or more than Ladell this year: Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Shaun Alexander, Kevin Jones, Chester Taylor, Rudi Johnson.

Other RB's who have LOST as many or more fumbles than Ladell this year: Kevin Jones, Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Edgerrin James, Chester Taylor, Reuben Droughns, Carnell Williams, Tatum Bell, Zack Crockett, DeShaun Foster, Dominic Rhodes, Jamal Lewis, Brian Westbrook, Mack Strong, Shaun Alexander, Reggie Bush, Sammy Morris, Larry Johnson, Jameel Cook, Corey Dillon, Ronnie Brown, Fred Taylor, Ahman Green, Travis Henry, Rudi Johnson

Yeah, he sucks. He's a fumble machine.[/quote]

He has played less games then the others listed on that list, he is a fumble machine.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=jdlea;263391]Oh...that makes it okay? He has less chance to fumble and still becomes the second most prominent fumbler in the NFL, but who gives a shit if he fumbles all the time...

5 times he has fumbled as the primary back this season![/quote]

I don't know how you figure he's the "second most prominent fumbler in the NFL", but you're wrong.

Okay, you don't like the guy. Fine, we get it. He fumbled. Yep, it's a fact. But let's not pass off your dislike for the guy as some kind of validated proof that he sucks, because there's plenty of actual demonstrable evidence that he in fact doesn't.

It's totally fine to say you think his numbers are good because the line is good, and that he isn't anything special. But if you're going to say he sucks because of something on a stat sheet, you can't then use the defense that on the other side of the stat sheet, his yardage the past 5 games, gaudy 4.8 yards per carry, and other solid numbers are bogus.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=Redskin;263463]He has played less games then the others listed on that list, he is a fumble machine.[/quote]

He has started in less games, but he has played in every game this season. Nice try though.

Shaun Alexander only played in 9 games this season and fumbled 5 times, so you're looking in the wrong division for the fumble machine.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=dgack;263465]He has started in less games, but he has played in every game this season. Nice try though.

Shaun Alexander only played in 9 games this season and fumbled 5 times, so you're looking in the wrong division for the fumble machine.[/quote]


Yea but a lot of those guys get almost double the carries he gets. Give me a fumble to carry ratio and i bet hes pretty close to the top of the list.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=Redskin;263467]Yea but a lot of those guys get almost double the carries he gets. Give me a fumble to carry ratio and i bet hes pretty close to the top of the list.[/quote]

You'd be wrong, again. Ladell has 196 carries in 14 games, with another 29 today. There is only one guy in the NFL who has "almost double" the carries of Ladell, and that's Larry Johnson (at 383 in 15 games). There are about 10 backs who have 250-280 carries in 14-15 games.

I don't really have the time nor feel the need to do further number crunching to "prove" that he doesn't "totally sux0r!!1!11" but at least I backed up my points with actual stats. You're more than welcome to do the math and show me fumble per carry numbers, I'd invite you to also calculate yards per carry and give me a more useful stat of fumbles per yard gained, and let me know where Ladell shows up.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=jdlea;263449]That's a point I agree with 100%. However, I would assert that you know that the D is bad, so why wouldn't you play as close to perfect as possible? You know the D can't pick you up. Also, the D got you the football with a chance to win the ballgame and you proceeded to give them the ball right back. That's what gets me about this one. Everyone blames the D, it's hard to get a stop after they feel as though they've snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.[/quote]

Why are you making excuse after excuse for the D, Ladell made one mistake today, but hes also a back up pressed into starting duty and hes absolutely shined. I really dont understand your argument, you say the offense should play as close to perfect as possible, do you not understand thats what they intend to do every sunday, things change those scenarios. I really cant believe that people are saying its Betts fault we lost, I honestly cant believe it, he gave us a 2 TD lead he wasnt the one who gave it back, and he damn near won the game for us, how much more do you want from a back up, how many teams do you think would line up for Betts services? Sure he fumbled, but who put him into the position he was in, to have to try and win it again?

Heres the production from our back up:
car.-225-yards-1062-TD-4-fumb.-5 fum. lost-2

Ill take that production from my back up all day, your argument has no legs to stand on, you just keep bitching about how he sucks and we should play perfect because we now the D sucks, you cant be serious

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=dgack;263469]You'd be wrong, again. Ladell has 196 carries in 14 games, with another 29 today. There is only one guy in the NFL who has "almost double" the carries of Ladell, and that's Larry Johnson (at 383 in 15 games). There are about 10 backs who have 250-280 carries in 14-15 games.

I don't really have the time nor feel the need to do further number crunching to "prove" that he doesn't "totally sux0r!!1!11" but at least I backed up my points with actual stats. You're more than welcome to do the math and show me fumble per carry numbers, I'd invite you to also calculate yards per carry and give me a more useful stat of fumbles per yard gained, and let me know where Ladell shows up.[/quote]


Fumble per yards gained would be pointless to this talk about how much he fumbles (we are looking for how often he fumbles not apointless comparison between yards and fumbles what would that show?),and no one is saying betts suxs, he just has a fumble problem. Tiki Barber had a major fumbling problem but you would never catch me saying he sux.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=Redskin;263473]Fumble per yards gained would be pointless to this talk about how much he fumbles (we are looking for how often he fumbles not apointless comparison between yards and fumbles what would that show?),and no one is saying betts suxs, he just has a fumble problem. Tiki Barber had a major fumbling problem but you would never catch me saying he sux.[/quote]


What more does the man have to prove to you guys, he shows stat after stat backing up his argument and you still keep it up, look the point is he fumbled, RB do that, but by no means did he lose the game like many narrow minded fans are saying, there just upset and need something to blame this loss on. The fact that that other guy can not understand that its the D fault we lost today is pretty funny, he keeps saying we should know the D sucks already and with that in mind Ladell should choose not to fumble, yep its true, hes a moron!

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=Redskin;263473]Fumble per yards gained would be pointless to this talk about how much he fumbles (we are looking for how often he fumbles not apointless comparison between yards and fumbles what would that show?),and no one is saying betts suxs, he just has a fumble problem. Tiki Barber had a major fumbling problem but you would never catch me saying he sux.[/quote]

What's pointless about comparing how much yardage a guy gains versus how often he coughs it up? You're the one who wants to look at fumbles per carry, so you obviously want to find some way to show that per capita, he's an awful ball carrier.

Interestingly if you sort NFL rushers by average yards per carry, you'll see guys like Frank Gore, Tiki Barber, LT, Willie Parker, Freddy Taylor, and yes, Ladell Betts (9th in the league at 4.8). Guess what, all of those guys but LT also have 3 or more fumbles on the season. My point is, there is a positive correlation between higher yards per carry averages and higher fumble numbers.

My hypothesis: guys who run for more yard per carry have a greater chance of being "ridden" and "stripped", and those types of fumbles are often hard to prevent. I'll take that over guys who average 3 yards per carry and fumble a lot just because they suck at holding onto the ball in the backfield. *cough*ReubenDroughns*cough*

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;263475]What more does the man have to prove to you guys, he shows stat after stat backing up his argument and you still keep it up, look the point is he fumbled, RB do that, but by no means did he lose the game like many narrow minded fans are saying, there just upset and need something to blame this loss on. The fact that that other guy can not understand that its the D fault we lost today is pretty funny, he keeps saying we should know the D sucks already and with that in mind Ladell should choose not to fumble, yep its true, hes a moron![/quote]


Im not saying the D did not lose us thios game becuase there is no doubt they did im saying Betts blew our last chance at a critical moment. Im not blaming Betts for the loss the man had a great game, just speculating if he held on to that ball what would have happened.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

TODAY WAS MY FIRST REDSKINS GAME!!!!!!! I live in southern Illinois and this was my first chance to get to see the Skins. I had 3rd row tickets behind the bench. (Unfortunately they were right behind the RAMS bench.) The game was a thriller with the wrong team winning.

First of all Betts is great. Taylor had some BAD plays today. Did anyone see how good Champ Bailey looked today and has looked all season. Looking back can anyone imagine what the difference in our team would be with Champ Bailey back and Betts as our starting RB? Plus that extra draft pick we gave away.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=LINEBACKER;263490]TODAY WAS MY FIRST REDSKINS GAME!!!!!!! I live in southern Illinois and this was my first chance to get to see the Skins. I had 3rd row tickets behind the bench. (Unfortunately they were right behind the RAMS bench.) The game was a thriller with the wrong team winning.

First of all Betts is great. Taylor had some BAD plays today. Did anyone see how good Champ Bailey looked today and has looked all season. Looking back can anyone imagine what the difference in our team would be with Champ Bailey back and Betts as our starting RB? Plus that extra draft pick we gave away.[/quote]

Trust me, I know what you mean, but Champ begged his way out of DC, Gibbs didnt really want to get rid of him, he just didnt want to be here anymore

Re: Defense let us down!
 

OUr defense sucks. They cost us the game, unable to hold onto a multiple-TD lead again. Gregg Williams had his chance, and he's getting worse. I guess Gibbs will keep him around, but I hope he's never referred to as a defensive genius again. Today was the worst effort in a long time by the D.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[QUOTE=GiantsSuck703;263472]Why are you making excuse after excuse for the D, Ladell made one mistake today, but hes also a back up pressed into starting duty and hes absolutely shined. I really dont understand your argument, you say the offense should play as close to perfect as possible, do you not understand thats what they intend to do every sunday, things change those scenarios. I really cant believe that people are saying its Betts fault we lost, I honestly cant believe it, he gave us a 2 TD lead he wasnt the one who gave it back, and he damn near won the game for us, how much more do you want from a back up, how many teams do you think would line up for Betts services? Sure he fumbled, but who put him into the position he was in, to have to try and win it again?

Heres the production from our back up:
car.-225-yards-1062-TD-4-fumb.-5 fum. lost-2

Ill take that production from my back up all day, your argument has no legs to stand on, you just keep bitching about how he sucks and we should play perfect because we now the D sucks, you cant be serious[/QUOTE]


I'm not really trying to make excuses for the D. I'm not denying they screwed up. I'm not denying that they were a large reason why the game was lost. However, the offense got the ball with a chance to win the football game. It looked as though they would and Betts coughed it up. The horrid D did let the Rams score. However, let's say Betts doesn't fumble...who do you think wins? I'm not trying to absolve the D by any means. They're bad. However, Betts certainly didn't help matters and he certainly contributed to the loss in a big way.

All that said, I don't think Ladell Betts is a bad football player. He made a bad play and it cost the team the chance to win the game. You can't argue that. He didn't give the Rams the game, but he give them the Redskins' chance to win the game. He gave away the Skins shot at the win. I'm less disappointed in the D because I know they're bad, that doesn't make it okay, and it doesn't make it excusable, but when he fumbled I knew it was over, OT or not. The D isn't good and they helped lose the game, but they weren't the only ones, Ladell helped too.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

This was just another in a long line of demorilizingly close losses this season. It just makes me sick, we are so close to being really good but we always seem to stub our toe at the very worst times. I think we'll at least get a very good draft pick from this mess of a season. Hopefully next season will be better, I know it couldn't be any worse. I guess we'll find out in about nine months.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

Please draft Lamar Woodley from Michigan! The pass rush is awful!

Re: Defense let us down!
 

i think we need secondary help, first

Re: Defense let us down!
 

People can sit here and bitch and moan about Betts fumble all they want. But I have news for all of you. EVERY RB FUMBLES!!!!!!!!! GET OVER IT AND LOOK AT THE REAL PROBLEM!!!!!!!! Any Reskin fan who knows anything about football knows that you can't give up 37 points and almost 600 yards of offense and win. The team has no quality depth at all on defense and that's a glaring problem. Hell some of the starters are not any good to begin with. I guess our sorry ass front office does not think of bringing in quality depth. I guess our sorry ass front office thinks no one is ever going to get hurt. When Springs goes out the secondary is just not capable of holding up. Carlos Rogers and Sean Taylor got their asses toasted yesterday. I hate to say it but I love the way the Eagles are balling right now. They are missing Kearse and McNabb and playing great football. Where is our Trent Cole coming off the bench, rushing the passer and causing havoc? We don't have anyone like that becasue OUR FRONT OFFICE SUCKS ASS.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=Twilbert07;263636]OUr defense sucks. They cost us the game, unable to hold onto a multiple-TD lead again. Gregg Williams had his chance, and he's getting worse. I guess Gibbs will keep him around, but I hope he's never referred to as a defensive genius again. Today was the worst effort in a long time by the D.[/quote]

I don't think GW all of a sudden forgot how to coach. Sometimes you have to look at the players. The players just are not any good. Marshall and Holdman just can't get off blocks. Both need to be replaced. Or move Marshall back to weakside cause he's just too small for MLB. Daniels can't get any pressure at all. Rogers is looking like a total bust. Taylor just want's to do his own thing and hit people. Move his ass to LB cause he doesn't want to cover anybody. Fox can't play. I love Jimoh on teams but DO NOT let him cover anybody. Need I go on?

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=dmek25;263665]i think we need secondary help, first[/quote]
Good point, but it all starts up front. If we had a pass rush, opposing QBs wouldn't have all damn day to "find" recievers to expose our terrible secondary.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

anytime a team scores 31 points and loses...problem has to start with the defense...

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;263349]I unquestionably put more of the blame on the defense than Betts. The defense was pathetic. But, as good as Betts was playing, he has an uncanny knack for fumbling when it really hurts.[/quote]


amen again the defense couldn,t come thru again,great job guys...
being up by 2 TDs man this defense stinks..

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=rotahe39;263699]anytime a team scores 31 points and loses...problem has to start with the defense...[/quote]

Totally, see how many playoff teams allow 30 plus points?? It should be a short search. That has always been the knock against Betts. He coughs up the rock at the WORST moment.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=gibbs4life;263701]amen again the defense couldn,t come thru again,great job guys...
being up by 2 TDs man this defense stinks..[/quote]I agree about our D given up that many points but after our score early in the 3rd our O did nothing to held our team until late into the game. Betts almost had as many yards as our entire O.

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=ncskinsfanec;263326][LEFT]The offense looked great today, but the defense was just terrible. Please don't blame Betts for the loss, if the defense could've held up to its end of the bargain we would have won big![/LEFT]
[/quote]

Sean Springs is obviously a true leader on our D. As soon as he got hurt it was like out D didn't know what to do... they lost there way.....

There are some leaders on this team that we cannot do without and Springs is one of them, Portis is another....

Re: Defense let us down!
 

[quote=Skins4Eva;263371]I am forced to agree...lets be serious for a second...defensively we are a joke...Although Andre Carter is looking like a real player...however, anyone who can't stop this mindboggling support of Betts needs to look at their football knowledge...I dont know how many of you played Division I Football but I have (which is probably why I dont post a lot here because I thinkthat there are only a few of you I read who regularly make any football sense). Betts has cost us another game...first, if I had the holes he had I could run for 1000, not one of those 1000 yards goes to him it is his offensive line...when have you ever seen Betts put a move on someone. Second, he is the most fragile runner I've ever seen who goes down at the slightest bit of contact. Third, he can't pass block to save his butt. Fourth, can all of that "should we move portis crap" if he was healthy with the way the offensive line was playing he'd have 3, 000 yards. Fifth, if we were smart we would have traded Betts butt and tried like hell to sign a beast in Duckett; for real, who gives a crap if Betts can catch out of the backfield if someone ain't open with the damn recievers we have everyone should be cut...we shouldn't NEED a pass catching back!!! Betts should have beed traded!!!![/quote] So , with the same OL , why didn't portis run for 3,000 yds last year or in 04 when he averaged less than 4 yds per carry ? Portis is a better player , better picking up the blitz , more explosive , but he is not even close to 4.5 yds a carry . Honestly who cares if some fans like Betts as much or more ? I just hope they can score some damn tds on a regular basis next year . maybe fans should be asking why our Wr's have done nothing this year , not bash the one guy carrying the load every week .

Re: Defense let us down!
 

The defense has been a letdown all season. We shouldn't be surprised at this point, I'm just numb from disappointment.