Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[QUOTE=riggoraider;264074]...I may be wrong but if you can give me a starter that has not fumbled more than once this year please do so and I will, gladly, eat my words.[/QUOTE]

When did I say anything about Betts getting benched? And yes, 5 fumbles in one season most definitely gets you the fumbler identity in my book.

Anyhoo, as to your challenge, get ready to eat up...

Minimum 75 rushes, running backs in '06 without any fumbles:

Marion Barber (DAL)
Clinton Portis
Jerius Norwood (ATL)
Cedric Benson (CHI)
Lamont Jordan (OAK)

Those with just one in '06:

Joseph Addai (IND)
Brian Westbrook (PHI)
Thomas Jones (CHI)
Maurice Jones-Drew (JACK)
Julius Jones (DAL)
Warrick Dunn (ATL)
DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
Lawrence Maroney (NE)

The list goes on and on. Again, the term means different things to different people. "Fast" Willie Parker has 5 fumbles for the year. And there were many RBs that had 2 or 3 fumbles. To me, Betts just hasn't had enough carries over his career to be labelled either way, but I think he's getting there.

Is he the worst fumbler ever? No. Does he fumble? Yes. Take that any way you want.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=Beemnseven;264076]When did I say anything about Betts getting benched? And yes, 5 fumbles in one season most definitely gets you the fumbler identity in my book.

Anyhoo, as to your challenge, get ready to eat up...

Minimum 75 rushes, running backs in '06 without any fumbles:

Marion Barber (DAL)
Clinton Portis
Jerius Norwood (ATL)
Cedric Benson (CHI)
Lamont Jordan (OAK)

Those with just one in '06:

Joseph Addai (IND)
Brian Westbrook (PHI)
Thomas Jones (CHI)
Maurice Jones-Drew (JACK)
Julius Jones (DAL)
Warrick Dunn (ATL)
DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
Lawrence Maroney (NE)

The list goes on and on. Again, the term means different things to different people. "Fast" Willie Parker has 5 fumbles for the year. And there were many RBs that had 2 or 3 fumbles. To me, Betts just hasn't had enough carries over his career to be labelled either way, but I think he's getting there.

Is he the worst fumbler ever? No. Does he fumble? Yes. Take that any way you want.[/quote]

LOL...out of all those guys that you named only about 5 are starters so besides those 5 the rest of the league starters are fumblers in your opinion? ....NO he has not been starting all year but he has probably the most carries of almost anyone in the past 6 weeks. Carrying the load with absolutely no pass offense is not as easy as it may seem defenses knows that he is going to be THE guy.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=hesscl34;263977]This is sarcasm, right??

Truly Yours,
Mrs. Brunell[/quote]

What's really sad is that someone had to check to be sure. :spank:

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264028]How much worse would the D have to be for you to place the majority of the blame on them for this miserable season??

The D has hit rock bottom. They have been gashed by just about every back they've faced, and they've given up a ton of big plays in the passing game. Outside of about 2-3 solid performances they've been downright awful, the worst overall D we've seen here in years.

I have no problem saying they are the main reason we are 5-10. No problem at all.[/quote]

Allow me to join the not-quite-consensus-but-growing-mob who also have no problem saying the D is the reason we are 5-10.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264028]How much worse would the D have to be for you to place the majority of the blame on them for this miserable season??

The D has hit rock bottom. They have been gashed by just about every back they've faced, and they've given up a ton of big plays in the passing game. Outside of about 2-3 solid performances they've been downright awful, the worst overall D we've seen here in years.

I have no problem saying they are the main reason we are 5-10. No problem at all.[/quote]

Okay, you don't have a problem saying the defense is the main reason the team is 5-10. I don't have a problem with you saying it either, even if I don't think it's entirely true.

I have acknowledged the the defense has been awful. It's certainly part of the equation...but come on. The Redskins have failed to score at least 20 points [I]9 times[/I] this season, and it would have been 10 if not for a garbage time touchdown against the Colts. That's bad, but what's worse is that they lost 7 of those 9 games. In three of them (first Giants game, first Cowboys game, first Philly game) the offense didn't score a touchdown. In two others, they only scored one.

This is the NFL. 20 points per game isn't a good offense, it's an average one. Now if you want to get into reasons [I]why[/I] the offense hasn't been consistantly effective- Portis, Campbell, Saunders, poor execution, inept playcalling, whatever you like- that's an entirely seperate matter. But the bottom line is that week after week, drives have stalled and critical points have been lost.

Is the defense awful? Sure- but I'm still not buying the idea that this team's woes are due to the defense any more than the offense.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=The Huddle;264091]This is the NFL. 20 points per game isn't a good offense, it's an average one. Now if you want to get into reasons [I]why[/I] the offense hasn't been consistantly effective- Portis, Campbell, Saunders, poor execution, inept playcalling, whatever you like- that's an entirely seperate matter. But the bottom line is that week after week, drives have stalled and critical points have been lost.

Is the defense awful? Sure- but I'm still not buying the idea that this team's woes are due to the defense any more than the offense.[/quote]

We're 5 or potentially 6 games worse than last year, and yet, with 1 game to go, are only 500 yards below last season's offensive output. We have put up ~40 yards less than the 13-2 Chicago Bears.

I just don't buy your argument. Of course we don't have a juggernaut offense this year. Didn't have one last year, either. Neither does Chicago have one. The big difference is that this year we don't have a defense that can make plays to help the offense. That IS a legitimate way to win in the NFL. I think you'll find a nearby team proved that strategy successful in 2000, with an offense just as average as this one.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=Longtimefan;264065]The defense played very well last year (9th overall) without Pierce, Smoot, and very little by way of contribution from LaVar for the last two seasons. Lemar Marshall was an overachiever at the MLB position, and this season played after having offseason shoulder surgery. The loss of Pierson Prioleau and Ryan Clark, coupled with the injuries to Shawn Springs really hurt the secondary, but not to the extent we go from 9th in the league to last. The defense this year did not play with the same disposition it did the past two seasons. They were not attacking the ball in the same fashion which in many ways explains their lack of take-a-way's. I'm inclined to agree with Phillip Daniels when he said he felt it was overconfidence. "We thought we could just roll our helmets out there and get a win".[/quote]

You are right there was definitely a change in the defense this year. Earlier in the year we would blitz AA constantly and he was not getting anywhere near the QB and when we did not blitz him he was getting burned on deep passes. His partner Sean Taylor, who has the same talents as a Ed Reed, Palamalou and Roy Williams, does not know when and when not to go for the big hit so often times he whiffs and the receiver/ running back that he is trying to kill is running untouched down the field. Carlos Rogers can not defend a #1 receiver so he is better when Springs is not hurt...

Linebackers: The past couple of years I could almost count on Washington or Marshall to make a big play in a game but this year it was not happening and Warrick Holdman was just taking up space on the field.

Defensive Line: Andre Carter was probably our best aquisition this year and I think that his great play will carry over to next year. Golston played well early in the year but I think that he hit a rookie wall or something and he did not produce in the back part of this season but I think that he and Salave'a can do alright at the tackle positions ( I love Salave'as' aggresiveness when he is not hurt) but the other DE position has to be addressed in the offseason, neither Daniels nor Wynn is going to make this defense any better.

all and all we have lots of work to do to this squad

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=The Huddle;264091]Okay, you don't have a problem saying the defense is the main reason the team is 5-10. I don't have a problem with you saying it either, even if I don't think it's entirely true.

I have acknowledged the the defense has been awful. It's certainly part of the equation...but come on. The Redskins have failed to score at least 20 points [I]9 times[/I] this season, and it would have been 10 if not for a garbage time touchdown against the Colts. That's bad, but what's worse is that they lost 7 of those 9 games. In three of them (first Giants game, first Cowboys game, first Philly game) the offense didn't score a touchdown. In two others, they only scored one.

This is the NFL. 20 points per game isn't a good offense, it's an average one. Now if you want to get into reasons [I]why[/I] the offense hasn't been consistantly effective- Portis, Campbell, Saunders, poor execution, inept playcalling, whatever you like- that's an entirely seperate matter. But the bottom line is that week after week, drives have stalled and critical points have been lost.

Is the defense awful? Sure- but I'm still not buying the idea that this team's woes are due to the defense any more than the offense.[/quote]

So we have an average offense - fine.

But the defense is horrible.

Therefore it's very easy to place more blame on the defense.

The defense is on pace for some quite dubious records, another indicator how just how piss poor they are.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=dgack;264093]We're 5 or potentially 6 games worse than last year, and yet, with 1 game to go, are only 500 yards below last season's offensive output. We have put up ~40 yards less than the 13-2 Chicago Bears.

I just don't buy your argument. Of course we don't have a juggernaut offense this year. Didn't have one last year, either. Neither does Chicago have one. The big difference is that this year we don't have a defense that can make plays to help the offense. That IS a legitimate way to win in the NFL. I think you'll find a nearby team proved that strategy successful in 2000, with an offense just as average as this one.[/quote]

No question that strategy has been sucessful elsewhere. And if we hadn't gone out and spend a huge wad of dough on Saunders' playbook and some new wideouts I'd be more inclined to believe that was the stretegy here all along. Implying that was the intended model at this point is a pretty tough sell.

Forget yards. Last year's team scored 359 points, or roughly 22 per game.
This year's team is only averaging about 18. That's notable for a team that's lost four games by a field goal or less. There's your difference between this year and last- or at least as much of a difference as your arguement makes in the other direction.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

No denying the scoring is down, and I'd wager a great deal of that gap is missing from Santana's statline from this year as compared to last, no?

I don't disagree with your re: Saunders and the legendary 700 pager, though to be fair, even he said it would take a year before everyone had it down. I don't think any of us expected to be this bad in the meantime, though.

Also wasn't intending to say that was our goal, just that it's how we got by last season, and the absence of those big plays on D surely accounts for a large chunk of why we haven't kept games close enough to win and won close ones this year with a similarly mediocre offense as last year's.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264098]So we have an average offense - fine.

But the defense is horrible.

Therefore it's very easy to place more blame on the defense.

The defense is on pace for some quite dubious records, another indicator how just how piss poor they are.[/quote]


Yes, I'm saying the offense is statistically average (slightly below, actually). However, it's failure at critical junctures during the season has been no less a factor in the team's record than the poor defensive play.
Football is as much a game of momentum as statistics, and this offense has never achieved any momentum.

This team is a mess top to bottom and front to back. It's certainly your prerogitive to blame the defense if you so chose, but I strongly dispute the "everyone knows the defense is to blame" (or words to that effect) sentiment that elicited my original post.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=dgack;264112]No denying the scoring is down, and I'd wager a great deal of that gap is missing from Santana's statline from this year as compared to last, no?

I don't disagree with your re: Saunders and the legendary 700 pager, though to be fair, even he said it would take a year before everyone had it down. I don't think any of us expected to be this bad in the meantime, though.

Also wasn't intending to say that was our goal, just that it's how we got by last season, and the absence of those big plays on D surely accounts for a large chunk of why we haven't kept games close enough to win and won close ones this year with a similarly mediocre offense as last year's.[/quote]

You make an excellent point re the offense benifitting from more big plays by the defense last year. Coming at it from that angle does indeed make a more compelling arguement against the defense. I'm just not prepared to throw the defense overboard while the offense watches, especially since I am having a hard time shjaking the feeling that hiring Saunders may ultimately turn out to be the single worst coaching decsion Joe Gibbs ever made. It's not that Saunders isn't a great offensive mind, but what sort of effect does it have when you come into the locker room of a team that just went 10-6 and advanced a round in the playoffs and tell them, essentially, that you're wiping the board and starting from scratch?

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=The Huddle;264118]Yes, I'm saying the offense is statistically average (slightly below, actually). [B]However, it's failure at critical junctures during the season has been no less a factor in the team's record than the poor defensive play.[/B]
Football is as much a game of momentum as statistics, and this offense has never achieved any momentum.

This team is a mess top to bottom and front to back. It's certainly your prerogitive to blame the defense if you so chose, but I strongly dispute the "everyone knows the defense is to blame" (or words to that effect) sentiment that elicited my original post.[/quote]We have been pretty crappy in the red zone and on the fringe of field goal range. If you look at our [URL="http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats.php"]drive stats[/URL], we are #20 or better in every per drive statisitc (yards per, points per, TDs per, turnovers per, INTs per, Fum Lost per) except punts per where we are 27th, and average starting field position where we are 23rd starting from the 29 yd line on average this season. So you have a point, but its incomplete.

Do you think we would have failed at so many juntures if we had been given better field position by the D? Face it, we don't force three and outs very often, most of the time we give up a score, or allow a drive that goes many times to midfield, and the ensuing punt pins us deep.

So how many consecutive 3rd downs can an offense be [U][I]expected[/I][/U] to convert? They, by nature, get progressively harder as the D gets less and less field to cover. So when the drive fizzles after 2-3 first downs, has the offense failed? That's opinional, but very few offenses can consistently get TDs when forced to go 80 yards.

Right now our O is right around where it was last year, but right now it has more direction than it did pre Saunders. Get a blocking TE, and either resign or replace Dock, and the offense is complete. The D needs a lot more work.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

How many extra possessions has the defense given the offense by way of turnover?

I don't think anyone really needs to answer that question, we all know the pathetic answer.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

leave it to matty to be the voice of reason

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

Certainly both sides of the ball were miserable in a few games - Dallas, NYG, Colts - but isn't the real question here, which side of the ball deserves more attention in the offseason?
I think this is pretty easy - the D. I've said before that we really need to groom some young O linemen & a backup qb, but by far our glaring personnel issues are on D.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

If I had to break down the reasons for the team's failure this year percentage-wise, I'd say it's about 60% defense's fault to 40% for the offense.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;264181]If I had to break down the reasons for the team's failure this year percentage-wise, I'd say it's about 60% defense's fault to 40% for the offense.[/QUOTE]

Just to be an ass, I say it's 67% defense, 33% offense.

I'll explain my precise percentages at a later date.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

I could go 65% to 35%, but I'll be damned if I budge from that.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

I'd rank it 75% on the D, 25% on the offense.

If the D was just middle of the pack in terms of yardage and turnovers I think we'd easily have another 3-4 wins at least.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;264187]I could go 65% to 35%, but I'll be damned if I budge from that.[/QUOTE]

If I threw in a mini-fridge could I talk you into 66% - 34%?

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264189]I'd rank it 75% on the D, 25% on the offense.

If the D was just middle of the pack in terms of yardage and turnovers I think we'd easily have another 3-4 wins at least.[/quote]

Or if we had 3-4 more touchdowns instead of field goals the right places, we'd also have 3-4 more wins.

Just for the hell of it I'll sat 58% offense, 42% defense but I really think this is missing the point. I know my opinion is in the minority, and I'll likely get flamed for saying this, but I think the idea that this team is just some defensive tinkering away from being a legit contender is flat out laughable. However, I do agree that the team should and will spend most of its off season addressing defensive personnel issues. My concern is that they will likely go about this in the same ham-handede manner as they have approached other issues the last decade or so no matter who the coach has been- by throwing gobs of money at overpriced free agents who are either past their prime or were never actually that good to begin with. This is the same approach that brought such spectacles as the spectacular failure of the 2000 Redskins, not to mention this year's woefully disappointing offense.

I guess I'm pretty far off topic now, but one of the things about we Redskins fans is that we have been perpetually guilty of deluding ourselves as to how close our team is to actually returning to the top of the NFL heap. I think the Redskins are structurally flawed as an organization, and until significant changes are made in the way this team is assembled (GM or some significant counterweight to Gibbs) then Gibbs II will continue to sputter in the "one step foward, one step back" manner we'vce seen so far. There's nothing especially impressive about one playoff appearance in three years (come on- was last year's team really [I]that[/I] good?), much less a 21-27 record, or suddenly being forced to start a neophyte at quarterback halfway through year three of what presumably was a five year plan, or expensive wideouts who put up pedestrian numbers, or exalted offensive "gurus" whose unit can't manage a paltry 20 points per game.

I think there is a lot more wrong with the Redskins than needing a few new faces on defense.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=The Huddle;264208]Or if we had 3-4 more touchdowns instead of field goals the right places, we'd also have 3-4 more wins.

Just for the hell of it I'll sat 58% offense, 42% defense but I really think this is missing the point. I know my opinion is in the minority, and I'll likely get flamed for saying this, but I think the idea that this team is just some defensive tinkering away from being a legit contender is flat out laughable. However, I do agree that the team should and will spend most of its off season addressing defensive personnel issues. My concern is that they will likely go about this in the same ham-handede manner as they have approached other issues the last decade or so no matter who the coach has been- by throwing gobs of money at overpriced free agents who are either past their prime or were never actually that good to begin with. This is the same approach that brought such spectacles as the spectacular failure of the 2000 Redskins, not to mention this year's woefully disappointing offense.

I guess I'm pretty far off topic now, but one of the things about we Redskins fans is that we have been perpetually guilty of deluding ourselves as to how close our team is to actually returning to the top of the NFL heap. I think the Redskins are structurally flawed as an organization, and until significant changes are made in the way this team is assembled (GM or some significant counterweight to Gibbs) then Gibbs II will continue to sputter in the "one step foward, one step back" manner we'vce seen so far. There's nothing especially impressive about one playoff appearance in three years (come on- was last year's team really [I]that[/I] good?), much less a 21-27 record, or suddenly being forced to start a neophyte at quarterback halfway through year three of what presumably was a five year plan, or expensive wideouts who put up pedestrian numbers, or exalted offensive "gurus" whose unit can't manage a paltry 20 points per game.

I think there is a lot more wrong with the Redskins than needing a few new faces on defense.[/quote]

I can't argue w/the general summary of this post, but I think the intent of this thread is not that we're a "few new faces on defense" away from being a "contender," rather the D is our biggest issue & given limited resources, i.e. cap space, that's what the offseason will focus on.
I also agree that many seem to overestimate the Skins' potential every year, even Jurgensen & Huff do. But on this site I think the majority understand that the O is a work in progress, could make great strides next year, and we DEFINITElY need some new blood on D. That said, I'll think of this offseason as just improving to the best of the team's ability, not making those aquisitions that will get us to the super bowl, as we thought last offseason. This team can be a playoff team next year w/some tweaking of the D, IMO. Not talking super bowl (yet!). If I'm one of those fans w/unrealistic expectations, so be it, I have to have something to look forward to & be positive about this offseason.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=freddyg12;264216]I can't argue w/the general summary of this post, but I think the intent of this thread is not that we're a "few new faces on defense" away from being a "contender," rather the D is our biggest issue & given limited resources, i.e. cap space, that's what the offseason will focus on.
I also agree that many seem to overestimate the Skins' potential every year, even Jurgensen & Huff do. But on this site I think the majority understand that the O is a work in progress, could make great strides next year, and we DEFINITElY need some new blood on D. That said, I'll think of this offseason as just improving to the best of the team's ability, not making those aquisitions that will get us to the super bowl, as we thought last offseason. This team can be a playoff team next year w/some tweaking of the D, IMO. Not talking super bowl (yet!). If I'm one of those fans w/unrealistic expectations, so be it, I have to have something to look forward to & be positive about this offseason.[/quote]

Yeah, I know- I wandered pretty far off topic there, but I guess the whole "it's the defense's fault we're 5-10" thing just led me into going off a bit about where I think the real problems with the Redskins lie. This is not a solid football team on either side of the ball, nor is it well structured in the front office. Pinning the dismal state of this team solely on the defense doesn't make much sense to me. I would like to be optimistic but I'm tired of getting my hopes up. I will of course continue to support the team but I find it hard to be optimistic at the moment. My respect for Gibbs' past accomplishments and my admiration for what I know of him as a person are all that are keeping me from being even harsher in my assessment.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=The Huddle;264232]Yeah, I know- I wandered pretty far off topic there, but I guess the whole "it's the defense's fault we're 5-10" thing just led me into going off a bit about where I think the real problems with the Redskins lie. This is not a solid football team on either side of the ball, nor is it well structured in the front office. Pinning the dismal state of this team solely on the defense doesn't make much sense to me. I would like to be optimistic but I'm tired of getting my hopes up. I will of course continue to support the team but I find it hard to be optimistic at the moment. My respect for Gibbs' past accomplishments and my admiration for what I know of him as a person are all that are keeping me from being even harsher in my assessment.[/quote]

yeah, sorry - you even said in that post that you were off topic!
Understood about the FO, let's just hope that we've seen the worst of Gibbs' learning curve as Team Prez, and he'll adjust some things accordingly. I don't like the way he spends draft picks like pocket change, but I'll continue to have faith in him. This will be an interesting offseason, but as a Skins fan you have to always expect such!

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[QUOTE=mheisig;264186]Just to be an ass, I say it's 67% defense, 33% offense.

I'll explain my precise percentages at a later date.[/QUOTE]

I'd rank the defense with a bigger portion...but our biggest failure is our coaching. We have an all-star cast, we should have all star results and we don't.
Do I blame Saunders for the offense, and Williams for the defense? You bet I do...and I blame Gibbs for the overall performance.
Only Joe Bugel has done his job well. The rest have failed.
I am OK with giving them another shot because of their track records. Saunders warned us that it would take a full year to learn the offense. We didn't agree at the time, but now we agree. Williams had the Skins defense being a strong standard to the point that teams knew when they came to fed ex they had to face a good d. He's had injuries and poor play from areas, so he gets a mulligan on this season. Gibbs has yet to prove he can coach in the salary cap era, but he gave us a sniff last year, and he's worth giving another shot for the point that he's a hall of fame coach and he's done wonders for the Skins.
So let's put the blame where it needs to be...the coaches.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=jsarno;264277]
So let's put the blame where it needs to be...the coaches.[/quote]
whatever. this is a players league, and if you dont have the horses, or they dont execute, 6-10 happens

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

The D has been the problem.

Because nobody figured out that Springs needed surgery after last season he got surgery during preseason. So the D stank while he was out. Then he was rushed back; not that his original injury didn't have time to heal, but he wasn't able to build up a good strength base for the rest of his body. So after he came back he had hamstring problems. And I wouldn't be surprised if muscle weakness impacted his ability to adjust on the play when he broke his shoulder. In the NO game they finally had the rhythm of having Springs in the lineup.

For the person who thinks the offense is the problem, I remember a case (maybe the most extreme) where the opposing team didn't have to punt until the 4th quarter. If that happens and your defense gets less than one turnover a game, please explain to me
(1) how to win the game, and
(2) how many points you expect your offense to get given the length of time the opposing team has the ball and the implied start positions of your drives.

I think if we can get a good (healthy) corner we can go places. All the rest is "gravy".

I also feel there was some poor playcalling. If Gibbs told Saunders what he wanted I think it's OK. I imagine Saunders has seen how its worked and will find a way to use it to improve playcalling for next year. Then there's the red zone...

If CP and Moss are both healthy next year...

PS (to avoid starting a new thread): Did anyone notice Fox's stat line last week? (Don't forget to include special teams tackles.)

PPS: Taylor Jacobs sighting: 1 catch for 9 yards.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=dmek25;263937]i don't need any of those stats to remind me how much we have sucked defensively this season[/quote]

Huh? What team are you watching?

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=dgack;264093]We're 5 or potentially 6 games worse than last year, and yet, with 1 game to go, are only 500 yards below last season's offensive output. We have put up ~40 yards less than the 13-2 Chicago Bears.

I just don't buy your argument. Of course we don't have a juggernaut offense this year. Didn't have one last year, either. Neither does Chicago have one. The big difference is that this year we don't have a defense that can make plays to help the offense. That IS a legitimate way to win in the NFL. I think you'll find a nearby team proved that strategy successful in 2000, with an offense just as average as this one.[/quote]
You do NOT get pionts in the NFL for yardage . We are terrible at getting the ball in the endzone , and unless you have a very stout defence , you will lose most of your games . I do agree the Defence is a bigger a problem , as they have no strength at all . poor vs the run , very little pass rush , poor coverage , poor tackling and very little quality depth . You are correct saying you can win with a Ravens 2000 offence , but only if you have a DOMINATING DEf. Most teams winning it all have great defences , but also score TD's .

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=mike340;264407]The D has been the problem.

Because nobody figured out that Springs needed surgery after last season he got surgery during preseason. So the D stank while he was out. Then he was rushed back; not that his original injury didn't have time to heal, but he wasn't able to build up a good strength base for the rest of his body. So after he came back he had hamstring problems. And I wouldn't be surprised if muscle weakness impacted his ability to adjust on the play when he broke his shoulder. In the NO game they finally had the rhythm of having Springs in the lineup.

For the person who thinks the offense is the problem, I remember a case (maybe the most extreme) where the opposing team didn't have to punt until the 4th quarter. If that happens and your defense gets less than one turnover a game, please explain to me
(1) how to win the game, and
(2) how many points you expect your offense to get given the length of time the opposing team has the ball and the implied start positions of your drives.

I think if we can get a good (healthy) corner we can go places. All the rest is "gravy".

I also feel there was some poor playcalling. If Gibbs told Saunders what he wanted I think it's OK. I imagine Saunders has seen how its worked and will find a way to use it to improve playcalling for next year. Then there's the red zone...

If CP and Moss are both healthy next year...

PS (to avoid starting a new thread): Did anyone notice Fox's stat line last week? (Don't forget to include special teams tackles.)

PPS: Taylor Jacobs sighting: 1 catch for 9 yards.[/quote] The defence is the " bigger " problem , but it works both ways . It really is simple , when you have the ball score , when you are on defence , stop them . Not that I think that any team can score all day or stop the other team all night .

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

On the other hand, I find that if I score all night I am stopped all the NEXT day. :-)

[QUOTE=budw38;264422]The defence is the " bigger " problem , but it works both ways . It really is simple , when you have the ball score , when you are on defence , stop them . Not that I think that any team can score all day or stop the other team all night .[/QUOTE]

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[QUOTE=mike340;264407]I think if we can get a good (healthy) corner we can go places. All the rest is "gravy".[/QUOTE]

Your assessment of Springs was spot on, but this defense needs help at other places too. Apart from Carter and Golston, the D-line is officially old -- they aren't getting sufficient penetration, and we're going to break the record for lowest number of sacks in a season.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=jsarno;263992]It's amazing how everyone jumps on, then off bandwagons. When the cowboys were winning, everyone said how great the team was, they are the most solid team in the NFC. Now they lose one game and get exposed, and they are horrendous.
If this was the Skins, I'd say, "we have some top notch coaches, and they will figure out a way to win". WHy? Because I have faith in my team...maybe you should too.

That being said, I'd be surprised too! :D[/quote]

I for one am not (like those sport commentator dummies) never thought the defense was solid. Dallas is not horrendous when you look at the level of play in the NFC by other teams.

I have faith that they will beat the Lions but the postseason looks grime with the defense level of play. If Dallas doesnt get to the big one this year there is even more hope to look to next season as a promising one. I can not say the same for Washington.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264028]How much worse would the D have to be for you to place the majority of the blame on them for this miserable season??

The D has hit rock bottom. They have been gashed by just about every back they've faced, and they've given up a ton of big plays in the passing game. Outside of about 2-3 solid performances they've been downright awful, the worst overall D we've seen here in years.

I have no problem saying they are the main reason we are 5-10. No problem at all.[/quote]

me neither matty...the offense has come together and the special teams has been solid but the defense ,why bother right.....
and they certainly have stunk up the joint this season.
so this whole offseason should be spent on the defense and resigning our own players and please use the draft get some picks and actually pick up some people. we don,t need another free agency fenzy offseason.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[quote=gibbs4life;264634]me neither matty...the offense has come together and the special teams has been solid but the defense ,why bother right.....
and they certainly have stunk up the joint this season.
so this whole offseason should be spent on the defense and resigning our own players and please use the draft get some picks and actually pick up some people. we don,t need another free agency fenzy offseason.[/quote]

I agree with your ideas about the approach to the off-season- for once let's not pull a glitzy free agent shopping spree.

Can't see where the offense has "come together". St. Louis was the first time in eight games they've managed to break 20 points.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[QUOTE=Blue Star;264558]I have faith that they will beat the Lions but the postseason looks grime with the defense level of play. If Dallas doesnt get to the big one this year there is even more hope to look to next season as a promising one. I can not say the same for Washington.[/QUOTE]

With the exception of your RBs and TEs, your offense is old. Your defense is overrated. Romo is as consistent as the Redskins defense. Parcells might leave. ......So tell me again why you are so hopeful about your Cowboys.

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

Wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago that we had Skins fans on here lamenting how Dallas is superior because they build through the draft and we ruined our team with overpriced free agency busts?

Do we need any more proof of just how much rides on the shoulders of an NFL QB?

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;264655]With the exception of your RBs and TEs, your offense is old. Your defense is overrated. Romo is as consistent as the Redskins defense. Parcells might leave. ......So tell me again why you are so hopeful about your Cowboys.[/quote]



thats right on target my friend, i would say the future of the skins looks more promising than the future of the cowboys right now.

the skins offense is improving every week and with the return of a healthy portis and a full off-season of campbell learning, i'd say the offense is in good shape

the defense will bounce back. they might not be in the top 5 next season but they will be much improved. a new safety,(springs) another cb (nate clements) and a new pass rushing d-lineman (first draft pick)

Re: Worst Defense in the NFL
 

[QUOTE=The Huddle;264646]I agree with your ideas about the approach to the off-season- for once let's not pull a glitzy free agent shopping spree.[/QUOTE]

But how else are we to fix the defense? Can't do it with draft picks. And we know we can't stand pat with the secondary.

As much as I hate it when this team goes berzerk in the offseason with free agent signings, I don't know how else they can do it.