Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=coggs;265202]Today, was the first time I saw him play. Although he is not a better ATHLETE than Vick or Young, I think he can definitely be a better QB than Vick. Not sure about Young.[/quote]

Kid's got potential, and offseason of work will make him that much better!

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

Given the way the defense once again blew the game, we need to evaluate Gregg Williams' value to the team. I mean, how many coordinators who finish 31st or 32nd at what they do keep their jobs?

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=Twilbert07;265209]Given the way the defense once again blew the game, we need to evaluate Gregg Williams' value to the team. I mean, how many coordinators who finish 31st or 32nd at what they do keep their jobs?[/quote]


Not many have as many injuries and made so many mistakes in the free agency picking at fools gold as he has. After 2 fantastic seasons you want his head after one bad one, GL with that.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Twilbert07;265209]Given the way the defense once again blew the game, we need to evaluate Gregg Williams' value to the team. I mean, how many coordinators who finish 31st or 32nd at what they do keep their jobs?[/QUOTE]Fear not, Giants ownership will be blinded by the "play-off appearance" and give Coughlin an extension. Coughlin will then "con" the 'skins into allowing Williams to come be a co-defensive coordinator to work with Tim "as soon as Pittsburgh fires me they finally win the Super Bowl" Lewis, for next season.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Redskin;265211]Not many have as many injuries and made so many mistakes in the free agency picking at fools gold as he has. After 2 fantastic seasons you want his head after one bad one, GL with that.[/QUOTE]

Every team has inuries - look at the Giants. And, Williams' previous two years mean absolutely nothing tonight as we end the season with Gibb's worst record EVER.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=coggs;265202]Today, was the first time I saw him play. Although he is not a better ATHLETE than Vick or Young, I think he can definitely be a better QB than Vick. Not sure about Young.[/quote]

I was on the fence about Campbell until after tonight but the way he played tonight has me just about to be a believer especiallyhow he showed his toughness by continuing to run the ball after being cheap-shotted...This kid might just be a keeper

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=riggoraider;265215]I was on the fence about Campbell until after tonight but the way he played tonight has me just about to be a believer especiallyhow he showed his toughness by continuing to run the ball after being cheap-shotted...This kid might just be a keeper[/quote]

And he's also got that cool demeanor too! He might be the best young QB in the division now. Manning is too inconsistent and Romo's an attention seeking goof who's off-field escapades might really end up hurting him (plus he's highly overrated!).

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=Twilbert07;265214]Every team has inuries - look at the Giants. And, Williams' previous two years mean absolutely nothing tonight as we end the season with Gibb's worst record EVER.[/quote]


And the giants defense was nothing special tonight, Also who the f*** do you think got us to the playoffs last year becuase it certaintly wasent the offense, yep looked like williams D to me. So honestly the 2 previous season show that the man can coach a defense if he is given th eplayer, now lets give him the players and stop calling for everones head on the whole god damn planet.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=steveo395;265185]way to forget marcus washington...he was on IR, he didnt die[/quote]

fuck. well screw marshall

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=Redskin;265220]And the giants defense was nothing special tonight, Also who the f*** do you think got us to the playoffs last year becuase it certaintly wasent the offense, yep looked like williams D to me. So honestly the 2 previous season show that the man can coach a defense if he is given th eplayer, now lets give him the players and stop calling for everones head on the whole god damn planet.[/quote]

LMAO...I agree with you the man can coach a defense before he came to DC he had the Buffalo Bills defense right there at the top of the league but if you keep expressing yourself like that you are going to get high blood pressure and will not be able to see when he fixes ours because you are going to have a stroke or something

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=Twilbert07;265214]Every team has inuries - look at the Giants. And, Williams' previous two years mean absolutely nothing tonight as we end the season with Gibb's worst record EVER.[/quote]

Williams is good D coordinator, not a great one like we thought when he first got here. The fact of the matter is, statistically, his defenses have gotten worse every single year.

I don't care what anyone says, the departure of Pierce, Clark, and Smoot came back to bite us in the ass.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=riggoraider;265225]LMAO...I agree with you the man can coach a defense before he came to DC he had the Buffalo Bills defense right there at the top of the league but if you keep expressing yourself like that you are going to get high blood pressure and will not be able to see when he fixes ours because you are going to have a stroke or something[/quote]


Ill take that into consideration :food-smil

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

IMO, Campbell did well. He showed poise in leading those second half drives. We should be set next year at QB.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=Crat92;265247]IMO, Campbell did well. He showed poise in leading those second half drives. We should be set next year at QB.[/quote]

Haha, wow, when's the last time a Redskin fan has said THAT!?

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=dall-assblows;265176]cut holdman
move marshall to weak side
move rocky to strong side
get lance briggs and put him at MLB[/QUOTE]



What do you do with Marcus Washington?

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=riggoraider;265145]I agree with everything that was written here especially the part about our classless fans who attended the game. The sad part about that is most of them will be on this forum tonight or tomorrow pretending to be Redskins fans....I say "pretending" because if they were real Redskins fans [U]they would root for anyone who is in any game at anytime[/U][/quote]

I don't agree with that as an absolute statement - there would always be exceptions. MB, however, is about as far from one of those exceptions as you can get. Say what you want about his skills, but he has been nothing but a core Redskin since the day he got here.

That said, I was at the game and I cheered for MB. My wife asked why people were booing, and I told her that they were just being classless. It [U]was[/U] embarrassing.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=cpayne5;265150]Defense -Tiki. Why in the world has he absolutely torched us the past 3-5 years? IMO, he's not that great.
.[/quote]

Yet he was last night. The Skins played a good game all they need to do is develope their younger players,which is something the Giants need to do .

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=coggs;265213]Fear not, Giants ownership will be blinded by the "play-off appearance" and give Coughlin an extension. Coughlin will then "con" the 'skins into allowing Williams to come be a co-defensive coordinator to work with Tim "as soon as Pittsburgh fires me they finally win the Super Bowl" Lewis, for next season.[/quote]




I agree with you . The Giants need to dump "all" their coachs and start new.I'll take Gibbs(joke) but Ty Willingham would be my pick or Norm Chow.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=dall-assblows;265149]yea brandon was talking smack and it annoys me. then the finn buy went after ST while downing th ball.[/quote]


NO ONE in the league talks more crap or is as dirty as ST.(fact)

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Redskin;265220]And the giants defense was nothing special tonight, Also who the f*** do you think got us to the playoffs last year becuase it certaintly wasent the offense, yep looked like williams D to me. So honestly the 2 previous season show that the man can coach a defense if he is given th eplayer, now lets give him the players and stop calling for everones head on the whole god damn planet.[/QUOTE]

You're right. The defense was critical in getting us to the playoffs last year. And this year, they cost us the season. So, it's a scratch for Gregg Williams. I'd rather have someone whose team will be consistent. Worst yet, Williams' star players such as Sean Taylor and top picks such as Carlos Rogers seem to get worse. From Top 10 to last or near-last is the one of the worst dropoffs I've ever seen.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts = [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Our defense rea[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]lly does suck.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[/B]

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;265279]I agree with you . The Giants need to dump "all" their coachs and start new.I'll take Gibbs(joke) but[b]Ty Willingham[/b] would be my pick or Norm Chow.[/QUOTE]are you serious? I am sure glad you will have no say in the matter.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=Giantone;265280]NO ONE in the league talks more crap or is as dirty as ST.(fact)[/quote]

The first part may be true, but the second part about him being the dirtiest is a load of hooey, notwithstanding you backing it up with the ever-persuasive "(fact)" argument. Roy Williams is the dirtiest, hands down.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;265280]NO ONE in the league talks more crap or is as dirty as ST.(fact)[/QUOTE]

Unless you have a statistic or some data to back that statement up it's purely an opinion. Just saying something is a fact doesn't make it so. (fact)

Ha.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

First of all, I don't put all of the blame Gregg Williams for the plummet we've seen this year -- according to accounts, he was the one who really wanted Adam Archuleta, so he takes a big hit for that one. But his scheme is fine -- what happened was that his players got old.

Apart from Golston and Carter, the defensive line is old. Even Griffin's days of wowing all of the fans is over. Salave'a can't stay healthy, and he was put in a full-time starting position this year -- he simply can't be expected to do that for 16 games. Renaldo Wynn and Philip Daniels may be great locker room leaders, but they're just not getting it done on the field anymore. Time to say goodbye.

And as bad as these starters are, the depth is even worse, and they won't take us anywhere. There was a shot of somebody named "Sykes" on the field last night. I have no idea who that was. But he, Demetric Evans, Ryan Boschetti and whoever else there is leave us no hope for the future.

We failed this year at two critical positions -- the line, and the secondary. No one could have predicted Kenny Wright's abyssmal showing, Archuleta's implosion, or Rogers' continuing fall from first round status (if he ever had it). We SHOULD have prepared for Springs' susceptability to injury, but most probably thought we did that by drafting Rogers.

Bottom line is, the bones that make up this defense were deteriorating for awhile, and this year they finally cracked. And it's not going to get fixed in one year, so don't get your hopes up.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;265124]#1 I'm not sure what is wrong with the defense, but I hope Williams is starting to find some humility. I have not seen a worse Redskins defense in my entire life (and that includes Coach Edwards' defense). They can't tackle, force turnovers, stop the run, rush the passer, and they get penalties to boot.

#2 Betts is a very good back who could start for a lot of teams, but as long as he is careless with the football I'd prefer to see him remain a change-of-pace back. His fumble resulted in a 6-10 point swing.

#3 Andre Carter has been playing like a pass rushing stud for over a month now. Carter has racked up 4 sacks and a heckuva lot of pressures and tackles in the last 5 games. If only he were 15 pounds heavier and stouter against the run.

#4 Those who booed Mark Brunell's appearance on the field are classless. I'm ashamed to be lumped in together with them as a Redskins fan.

#5 Jason Campbell looks pretty solid. He is as elusive as any QB not named Michael Vick, Vince Young or Donovan McNabb. How many tackles did he shed to gain yards when pressure forced him out of the pocket? Moreover, he is as good at play-action and pump-fakes as any QB I've seen in the league.[/QUOTE]

It's like you read my mind Sheriff. I must say I was genuinely ashamed to be a Redskins fan when the crowd started booing Brunell. Classless.

If I hear Williams blaming this season on anyone but himself I'll be calling for his head. This guy should be on his knees begging for a job right now.

He's had some great seasons prior to this, but this year he proved his scheme can get absolutely torched once teams figure it out. He's proved he can be an absolutely lousy judge of talent (AA) and also proved that he has a pretty crappy management style when it comes to dealing with his players, coaches, and the overall organizational structure of his unit.

The only reason this guy is even still employed at this point is his track record up until this season. In a "what have you done for me lately" kind of league, Williams should be on VERY thin ice.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;265301]First of all, I don't put all of the blame Gregg Williams for the plummet we've seen this year -- according to accounts, he was the one who really wanted Adam Archuleta, so he takes a big hit for that one. But his scheme is fine -- what happened was that his players got old.

Apart from Golston and Carter, the defensive line is old. Even Griffin's days of wowing all of the fans is over. Salave'a can't stay healthy, and he was put in a full-time starting position this year -- he simply can't be expected to do that for 16 games. Renaldo Wynn and Philip Daniels may be great locker room leaders, but they're just not getting it done on the field anymore. Time to say goodbye.

And as bad as these starters are, the depth is even worse, and they won't take us anywhere. There was a shot of somebody named "Sykes" on the field last night. I have no idea who that was. But he, Demetric Evans, Ryan Boschetti and whoever else there is leave us no hope for the future.

We failed this year at two critical positions -- the line, and the secondary. No one could have predicted Kenny Wright's abyssmal showing, Archuleta's implosion, or Rogers' continuing fall from first round status (if he ever had it). We SHOULD have prepared for Springs' susceptability to injury, but most probably thought we did that by drafting Rogers.

Bottom line is, the bones that make up this defense were deteriorating for awhile, and this year they finally cracked. And it's not going to get fixed in one year, so don't get your hopes up.[/QUOTE]

Very good assessment of the reasons for the defense's disastrous season. And you're right; it won't be a quick fix. I guess we'll see whether Gregg really is a genius based on how long he takes to right the ship.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;265301]First of all, I don't put all of the blame Gregg Williams for the plummet we've seen this year -- according to accounts, he was the one who really wanted Adam Archuleta, so he takes a big hit for that one. But his scheme is fine -- what happened was that his players got old.

Apart from Golston and Carter, the defensive line is old. Even Griffin's days of wowing all of the fans is over. Salave'a can't stay healthy, and he was put in a full-time starting position this year -- he simply can't be expected to do that for 16 games. Renaldo Wynn and Philip Daniels may be great locker room leaders, but they're just not getting it done on the field anymore. Time to say goodbye.

And as bad as these starters are, the depth is even worse, and they won't take us anywhere. There was a shot of somebody named "Sykes" on the field last night. I have no idea who that was. But he, Demetric Evans, Ryan Boschetti and whoever else there is leave us no hope for the future.

We failed this year at two critical positions -- the line, and the secondary. No one could have predicted Kenny Wright's abyssmal showing, Archuleta's implosion, or Rogers' continuing fall from first round status (if he ever had it). We SHOULD have prepared for Springs' susceptability to injury, but most probably thought we did that by drafting Rogers.

Bottom line is, the bones that make up this defense were deteriorating for awhile, and this year they finally cracked. And it's not going to get fixed in one year, so don't get your hopes up.[/QUOTE]

I see no reason to believe that the scheme is perfectly fine. Schemes can get figured out by the opposition, and from the looks of it this year, every team had us figured out to a T.

You are absolutely right - players do get old, and that impacts a team. But that's a coaching problem. The player's ages are not a secret. It's not like, WHAM, all of a sudden the defensive line is ancient. Williams knew that was happening, knew it was coming, and failed to provide appropriate depth and young talent, instead choosing to blow piles of cash on a washed up, useless DB in Archuleta.

Players getting old and a lack of depth is a coaching problem, plain and simple. It's an inability to prepare in the offseason for the potential pitfalls of the next season. It appears that Williams pathlogical and epic arrogance pretty much blinds him to the fact that anything is really his responsibility. Blaming the players for getting old is a pretty sad excuse, but it would fit right in with someone like Williams who always manages to blame somebody else.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

Beem, all those guys were healthy last night. And since Golston has taken over, Salave'a has taken a breather and gotten relatively healthy. And by all accounts, 30-31 isn't really old, even by football standards. I agree with you on Daniels and Wynn - they are back ups at best. But what are our options??

If it isn't the scheme, then we're really in trouble because we don't have much leverage to upgrade during the offseason.

Too often guys are getting jammed inside, not shedding blocks, and backs are simply cutting back against the grain, it seems.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[quote=mheisig;265305]I see no reason to believe that the scheme is perfectly fine. Schemes can get figured out by the opposition, and from the looks of it this year, every team had us figured out to a T.

You are absolutely right - players do get old, and that impacts a team. But that's a coaching problem. The player's ages are not a secret. It's not like, WHAM, all of a sudden the defensive line is ancient. Williams knew that was happening, knew it was coming, and failed to provide appropriate depth and young talent, instead choosing to blow piles of cash on a washed up, useless DB in Archuleta.

Players getting old and a lack of depth is a coaching problem, plain and simple. It's an inability to prepare in the offseason for the potential pitfalls of the next season. It appears that Williams pathlogical and epic arrogance pretty much blinds him to the fact that anything is really his responsibility. Blaming the players for getting old is a pretty sad excuse, but it would fit right in with someone like Williams who always manages to blame somebody else.[/quote]


Agreed. In Williams first year his defense finished 3rd in the league, second year we finished 9th, and gave up a ton of big plays still. This year, well we know the stats.

It seems that offenses have figured out his schemes, couple that with key departures with no upgrades along the way, and this is how you fall from 3rd to 30 or 32nd in the NFL.

Do we need upgrades at corner, DT, and linebacker..absolutely. But good coordinators find a way to compensate for lack of talent. If we think we're going to just waltz into FA and ink Nate Clememts to a nice deal or whomever, and voila, we're back...we had better think again.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

Players CAN get ancient over night. I've heard them say as much. Charles Mann admitted that once on a post game show. I'm paraphrasing, but he said that as quick as the flight from Washington to San Fransisco, where he ended his career, he got old. It can happen that quick.

And no, players getting old is not the coaches fault. That falls to the front office and player-personnel. Now, if Williams is making personnel decisions he's not qualified to make, then that's the fault of the system which puts him in charge of making those decisions -- so, back to the structure of this organization we go.

If we had healthy players last night, and I'm not sure we did, then that only strengthens the argument that the players we have aren't right for the system anymore. By the 16th game of the season, everybody's playing with some nagging problem. Was Griffin out there? I didn't see him too much -- but a guy can be healhy and still not get it done anymore.

It's like the design of a house -- if the plans are drawn up right, all the measurements are correct, everything works. But if the materials that make up the construction of the house are faulty, it all falls to the ground. The system was fine for the first two years -- and years before by Buddy Ryan who ran it for years and tutored Williams. Any system can be figured out when the players for that system suck.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

Campbell really looked great in the 2nd half and overall with his 7 starts he really solidified himself as the guy to commit to as our QB. I now have no doubts about the kid. I really can't wait to see his development continue, I think next season he's really going to take off.

The defense is a big concern and should be priority #1, #2 and #3 this offseason. Tiki just like every other back we faced this season just shredded the defense. The tackling was atrocious all season, very embarrassing.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;265317]Campbell really looked great in the 2nd half and overall with his 7 starts he really solidified himself as the guy to commit to as our QB. I now have no doubts about the kid. I really can't wait to see his development continue, I think next season he's really going to take off.

The defense is a big concern and should be priority #1, #2 and #3 this offseason. Tiki just like every other back we faced this season just shredded the defense. The tackling was atrocious all season, very embarrassing.[/QUOTE]

We're on the same wavelength. Campbell is the best thing to happen to the Skins during the lousy 2006 season.

The defense by far was the biggest disappointment. Just when it seemed the defense was set and we could focus on the offense, the defense imploded. I hope the defense can get better - and fast.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

Totally agree Matty with your assessment that defense is priority #1, 2, and 3 this offseason. The defense looks atrocious, is aging, and showing how little talent we have on that side of the ball. The offense, however, is showing signs of life and is built around a core of solid, young players (e.g., Cooley, Portis, Moss, ARE, Lloyd, Campbell, Betts).

One other note I took from the game......I love ARE. That guy always looks excited and is definately the most versatile player on the team. He runs, throws, catches, and returns punts. Is there anything he can't do on offense?

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;265447]One other note I took from the game......I love ARE. That guy always looks excited and is definately the most versatile player on the team. He runs, throws, catches, and returns punts. Is there anything he can't do on offense?[/QUOTE]

After that amazing catch of Campbell perfect lob, I was thinking...man, they under-utilized him on offense this year. I'm not ready throw Lloyd out, but maybe ARE is the better fit at #2.

Offense is the only thing that gives me hope for '07.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

Am I the only one that noticed Betts didn't get the team record last night because he only ran for 92 yards? Personally, I'm glad he didn't break the record after those fumbles he had that cost us. He needs to work on his hands this offseason so whenever a helmet hits the ball it's not gonna be jarred loose.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=mooby;265493]Am I the only one that noticed Betts didn't get the team record last night because he only ran for 92 yards? Personally, I'm glad he didn't break the record after those fumbles he had that cost us. He needs to work on his hands this offseason so whenever a helmet hits the ball it's not gonna be jarred loose.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, let's see. Who was I debating with the other night on the question of whether Betts really is a "fumbler" ??

Oh yes, it was riggoraider. Where are you now? Still think all is fine and dandy with Betts hanging on to the ball?

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

he will not be carrying the ball alot next season if he cant hang on to it.that is one thing coach gibbs will not tolerate, turnovers

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;265480]After that amazing catch of Campbell perfect lob, I was thinking...man, they under-utilized him on offense this year. I'm not ready throw Lloyd out, but maybe ARE is the better fit at #2.

Offense is the only thing that gives me hope for '07.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. ARE always seems to make plays when he gets the ball. I prefer seeing him at #2 and Lloyd at #3. Lloyd has all the makings of a bust, but he's young and hopefully he will mature.

Re: Redskins-Giants Postgame Thoughts
 

[QUOTE=mooby;265493]Am I the only one that noticed Betts didn't get the team record last night because he only ran for 92 yards? Personally, I'm glad he didn't break the record after those fumbles he had that cost us. He needs to work on his hands this offseason so whenever a helmet hits the ball it's not gonna be jarred loose.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Just because this week's fumble was at the beginning of the game makes it no less significant than last week's. That was a great drive that could have put us up 7-0 right off the bat and been a big difference in the game.