Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=wolfeskins;267717]without going into details, every evolutionary belief has been proved to be nothing more than theorys[/quote]

The only reason the theories can't be proven was because we weren't around to record history over the course of billions of years. I'd love for you to go into details, because all of the arguments against the theory of evolution are scientifically flimsy at best.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;267726]

People believe it because deep down they don't want to face the alternative: that when you die you go nowhere, your life is simply over. And that your life was not part of some grand scheme; you simply lived and died.

Those alternatives are scary, but they're the truth. Religion is just a crutch humans use to go about their daily lives in false comfort.[/QUOTE]


But how do you know that? Again, I'm pretty much on your side with that, I think pretty much when you die, you just die just like you. But how do you know? Thats the best part about the whole thing, is you really dont know. How do you explain people "leaving their bodies and then coming back to life". Just some of the things that happen in this world just seem to weird to me to not belive there is some type of a god, and then at the same time it sounds rediculous to me. But I'm with Matty, I really dont belive in much, but I really cant disprove anything. I find myself praying to god somtimes when I want somthing, ya know? Unforunatley we'll all find out the truth one way or the other lol.

PS: Saden, you're right. When you posted this I was just waiting for the war, maybe if you just put Civil in front of anything touchy, we'll all behave lol.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=jsarno;267720]Hold on a sec...we, as humans, love to lump in evolution and the bible. The fact is the bible does not speak of evolution. This does not mean that since we believe in evolution the bible is incorrect, or that if we beleive in the bible that evolution is incorrect. Again I say, the bible is to answer the question of who, not how.
I don't mean to sound as if I don't beleive in evolution, cause I do, but waaay back everyone KNEW the world was flat, and there was plenty of evidence to convince everyone that it was true. OVERWHELMING evidence. So yes, evolution is a belief adopted by the scientific world. It can't really be proven 100%, just like the existance of God can't be proven 100%. Nor can either be disproven 100%. I am a Christian, and believe that God does exist, but I would not go so far as to say that it is FACT (not that you said that word) when it is opinion. Theory is just that...an opinion. However it is widely recognized throughout the science community that they are unsure of how everything first started. They can go back to the big bang time (or so) and have theories of how it all started. When you ask them where the rocks came from, they don't know, in fact a lot of scientists became Christians due to the fact that they can't figure it out and that it is obviously a design from a higher being. You can keep going farther and farther back until you can't go back anymore, then ask yourself what is left. In my opinion, it can only be God...but if you choose to believe there is none, [B]then what is the answer?[/B][/quote]

The limits of the human mind, that's the answer. Why is it that everything had to be created by someone or something? Is there a law that says all matter had to come from somewhere? Why did it have to be created? Why couldn't it just exist?

The concept that everything was somehow created comes from the book of Genesis. Deep down, people believe somehow the Earth, world, universe, whatever, was created. Then they try to apply that belief to the Big Bang and everything else, asking "well if the universe came from a Big Bang, then where did all the matter come in the first place?"

The true question: was matter created by someone/something? Or does it just exist?

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=Gmanc711;267729]But how do you know that? Again, I'm pretty much on your side with that, I think pretty much when you die, you just die just like you. But how do you know? Thats the best part about the whole thing, is you really dont know. How do you explain people "leaving their bodies and then coming back to life". Just some of the things that happen in this world just seem to weird to me to not belive there is some type of a god, and then at the same time it sounds rediculous to me. But I'm with Matty, I really dont belive in much, but I really cant disprove anything. I find myself praying to god somtimes when I want somthing, ya know? Unforunatley we'll all find out the truth one way or the other lol.

PS: Saden, you're right. When you posted this I was just waiting for the war, maybe if you just put Civil in front of anything touchy, we'll all behave lol.[/quote]

You're absolutely right, nobody knows for sure what happens when we die. A lot of scientists theorize that your brain stores a lifetime of memories, kind of like a computer. When you're alive, there's a system in place to suppress all of your memories from coming to the forefront of your attention, so that you can focus on learning and doing tasks. But when you die, that system begins to fail and all of your stored memories come to the forefront of your attention.

They theorize that when people have had near death experiences and have seen images of loved ones, they're actually hallucinating because of a combination of 1) the lack of oxygen to the brain (hence a change in chemical balance) and 2) memories surfacing in the brain.

You're right, these theories have not been proven, hence we call them theories. I find those explanations a lot more plausible then the existence of a heaven and a God. But you're right, I do not know for sure.

But an examination of human nature sure does point in one direction: humans are scared, fragile creatures. The fact that we are self-aware and conscious, combined with the fact that we will all die, combined with the fact that we feel so much grief when a loved one dies, creates a great deal of anxiety and defines the human condition. We search for an explanation of what life means and what death is like, but we find none. In the absence of explanation, we fall back on faith. Because without it, we're too scared to face what is most likely the truth:

That when a loved one dies, you will never see them again. That when you die, you will cease to exist. And that your life was just that, a life, nothing more.

When you read those words there, did you get a chill up your spine? Did you feel a little scared or even a little depressed? That's why religion was created: people just don't want to believe it. And they'd much rather go through life believing something else.

I can't knock it. Anything that makes you feel less scared is probably a good thing.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;267731]You're absolutely right, nobody knows for sure what happens when we die. A lot of scientists theorize that your brain stores a lifetime of memories, kind of like a computer. When you're alive, there's a system in place to suppress all of your memories from coming to the forefront of your attention, so that you can focus on learning and doing tasks. But when you die, that system begins to fail and all of your stored memories come to the forefront of your attention.

They theorize that when people have had near death experiences and have seen images of loved ones, they're actually hallucinating because of a combination of 1) the lack of oxygen to the brain (hence a change in chemical balance) and 2) memories surfacing in the brain.

You're right, these theories have not been proven, hence we call them theories. I find those explanations a lot more plausible then the existence of a heaven and a God. But you're right, I do not know for sure.

But an examination of human nature sure does point in one direction: humans are scared, fragile creatures. The fact that we are self-aware and conscious, combined with the fact that we will all die, combined with the fact that we feel so much grief when a loved one dies, creates a great deal of anxiety and defines the human condition. We search for an explanation of what life means and what death is like, but we find none. In the absence of explanation, we fall back on faith. Because without it, we're too scared to face what is most likely the truth:

That when a loved one dies, you will never see them again. That when you die, you will cease to exist. And that your life was just that, a life, nothing more.

When you read those words there, did you get a chill up your spine? Did you feel a little scared or even a little depressed? That's why religion was created: people just don't want to believe it. And they'd much rather go through life believing something else.

I can't knock it. Anything that makes you feel less scared is probably a good thing.[/QUOTE]

Thats pretty much exactly what I think. I think alot of religions are so people feel better somtimes, and you know what good for them. I mean I tend to have the faith that there is a heaven, and when someone dies they have a spirt somewhere...but do I really belive it? Not really. But it makes me feel better about it, so it's what people do. But that post is pretty much 100% spot on what I belive. And you're right, you can't knock it because dying is a scary thing to think about, so whatever you need to do to face it is what you should do.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;267726]
Those alternatives are scary, but they're the truth. Religion is just a crutch humans use to go about their daily lives in false comfort.[/QUOTE]

Maybe so, but what is the harm in that?
Do you tell your kids that life sucks? Or do you tell them they are special and they can acheive anything they set their mind to, and guard them from violent images on TV etc?

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;267730]The limits of the human mind, that's the answer. Why is it that everything had to be created by someone or something? Is there a law that says all matter had to come from somewhere? Why did it have to be created? Why couldn't it just exist?

The concept that everything was somehow created comes from the book of Genesis. Deep down, people believe somehow the Earth, world, universe, whatever, was created. Then they try to apply that belief to the Big Bang and everything else, asking "well if the universe came from a Big Bang, then where did all the matter come in the first place?"

The true question: was matter created by someone/something? Or does it just exist?[/QUOTE]

That's a very interesting question. I look at patterns and find my own conclusions...this is why I am an outstanding roulette player...the whole world has a way of evening itself out, you just need to find the patterns. You came from you parents, and their parents, and their parents before them. Everything has a beginning...think about that...everything you know in this world had a beginning, so why would something like the pre earth rocks not have a beginning?

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=jsarno;267736]That's a very interesting question. I look at patterns and find my own conclusions...this is why I am an outstanding roulette player...the whole world has a way of evening itself out, you just need to find the patterns. You came from you parents, and their parents, and their parents before them. Everything has a beginning...think about that...everything you know in this world had a beginning, so why would something like the pre earth rocks not have a beginning?[/quote]

OK not to get off topic, but do you honestly believe someone can be a good or bad roullette player? I don't know how many statistics classes you've taken over your lifetime, but basically, if you flip a fair and balanced coin, what are the chances it will land on heads? 50% right? Everyone knows that one. OK, so let's say the coin just landed on heads. Flip it again. What are the chances it will land on heads this time? 50% right? Again, an easy one. Now, imagine it has landed on heads 5 times in a row. Now flip it again. What are the chances it lands on heads this time?

50%.

The point is the odds don't change based on whatever patterns you're observing. Same goes for roullette, except instead of the coin resulting in two different outcomes, the ball can land on 38 different outcomes. So what are the chances that it will land on 00? 1/38.

Now imagine it has landed on 00 three times in a row. Now bet again. What are the chances it will land on 00 this time? 1/38.

There are no such things as patterns in roullette. The results are completely random. That's why in Vegas they say "if you think you have a roullette system, you've lost already."

Any success you've had in the past is purely the result of blind luck. You just happened to hit on the odds. If you're so good at it, and can predict the patterns, then why aren't you in Vegas now making a living off your prowess?

And that's the human condition in a nutshell. The need to search for patterns or meaning in completely random, unrelated, and meaningless events.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=jsarno;267735]Maybe so, but what is the harm in that?
Do you tell your kids that life sucks? Or do you tell them they are special and they can acheive anything they set their mind to, and guard them from violent images on TV etc?[/quote]

Well first off, we're not discussion what we tell our kids, we're discussing what adults believe. But no, there is no harm in having faith in something if it makes you feel better (provided you're not organizing against other faiths).

I'm not arguing whether religion makes you feel better. It certainly does. I'm just arguing what is most likely the truth: there is no God. People just believe in him to feel better about their mortality, and all else that they cannot explain.

I do the same thing as GManc. When my grandmom died I tried to think of her as living on in heaven. Or at least living on in my heart and in my memories. Did I believe it was the truth? Hell no. But I told myself that, and it got me through a rough time.

And if religion can do that for you, even if it's bunk, then it's a well-guided thing.

Like I said, I don't think Jesus was the son of God, or even that God exists. But nevertheless, the stories and lessons in the Bible are a great way to live your life. Whether you believe or not, that's not the point. It's a great example, fact or fiction.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=Schneed10;267727]The only reason the theories can't be proven was because we weren't around to record history over the course of billions of years. I'd love for you to go into details, because all of the arguments against the theory of evolution are scientifically flimsy at best.[/quote]

the reason they cannot be proven is becaue they are just theoies. why is it people need scientific proof to know if something exists ? i believe some poeple who are non believers use science as a crutch. they are fearfull of what happens after death and they say to themselves "well i can't see god and there's not enough scientific evidence to prove he is real, so i'll just continue to not believe".

can you see the wind ? no, but you can see and feel the effects of the wind. what is your reasoning for believing there is a thing called wind? is it because some scientists created a way to measure the speed of it.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins;267750]the reason they cannot be proven is becaue they are just theoies. why is it people need scientific proof to know if something exists ? i believe some poeple who are non believers use science as a crutch. they are fearfull of what happens after death and they say to themselves "well i can't see god and there's not enough scientific evidence to prove he is real, so i'll just continue to not believe".

can you see the wind ? no, but you can see and feel the effects of the wind. what is your reasoning for believing there is a thing called wind? is it because some scientists created a way to measure the speed of it.[/QUOTE]

I can conduct observable scientific studies on wind, i can feel it as my hair hair reacts to it. I know better than to go outside when wind speed is 150 mph because the likelihood of getting hurt is very high. That's the difference. God requires only faith and by definition faith is:

[QUOTE]Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.[/QUOTE]

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

I am not scared of death. In fact, I look forward to it, in a way, because I am SO curious -- and completely fed up with the world.

I once read that humans are best at destruction. That seems pretty accurate to me. With that in mind, I don't see any positive outcome to the human race, and civilization at large.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;267896]I am not scared of death. In fact, I look forward to it, in a way, because I am SO curious -- and completely fed up with the world.

I once read that humans are best at destruction. That seems pretty accurate to me. With that in mind, I don't see any positive outcome to the human race, and civilization at large.[/quote]

I recommend the movie "The Fountain" to you...

It's directed by the same guy that did "Requium for a dream", so it's kinda trippy, but interesting.

It talks alot about how humans try and treat death like it's a disease. Finding a cure for this and that, but in the end we can't escape our fate.

It's not a bad movie, but some people don't have the patience for it. I think about half the theatre walked out cause they didn't know what was going on when I saw it.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;267915]I recommend the movie "The Fountain" to you...

It's directed by the same guy that did "Requium for a dream", so it's kinda trippy, but interesting.

It talks alot about how humans try and treat death like it's a disease. Finding a cure for this and that, but in the end we can't escape our fate.

It's not a bad movie, but some people don't have the patience for it. I think about half the theatre walked out cause they didn't know what was going on when I saw it.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty bad when it comes to movies. There are SO many classics that I haven't seen, and many more that I have and can't remember. It kinda sucks, but I get a kick out of it. My cousin, and old roommate, is a pretty big movie buff and he would always refer to movies in conversation and I could never relate. He would get so frustrated. :)

Anyways, everyone always tells me about a movie I should see and I basically say, "Oh, I might have seen it already -- I don't know -- but I'll check it out." However, I never actually DO watch the movie because I really only watch movies based on circumstance -- and not desire. I have a DVD from a co-worker which I've had for about 8 months. He wanted me to watch it, but I could never commit. Then he told me to just keep it. :doh:

I don't know what it is. There are many movies that I LOVE, but I just don't focus on watching movies much. In a way I'm somewhat disappointed in myself, because movies are a HUGE part of modern history and culture.

Sorry for the long and stupid post. I gotta good buzz right now. Why else would I post at 3 am? :D

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins;267714]did you laugh because you thought it was funny or because you think i'm a hypocrit(sp).

just because you're a christian does'nt mean you have to stop joking around and having fun.[/QUOTE]

It was freakin hilarious. It was no way intended as a dig on you.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

I'm a nonbeliever. My mother is a Scientologist and my dad is a Christian, although he doesn't go to church. I was raised around Scientology in my younger years, but I grew out of it, because it wasn't helping me make my life any better. I'm still not sure of whether or not God exists, simply because if he does exist, why does he just sit around and watch all the time instead of helping people. If people think, hey i just saw a sign from God that showed me to believe in him, how do they just know it wasn't some random occurence? Religion is too deep for me, and I do think organized religion is just a money-making industry. If a person chooses to believe in God, that's their choice, if believing in God makes them a better person, so be it. But it's not my choice.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=saden1;267751]I can conduct observable scientific studies on wind, i can feel it as my hair hair reacts to it. I know better than to go outside when wind speed is 150 mph because the likelihood of getting hurt is very high. That's the difference. God requires only faith and by definition faith is:[/quote]
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence

Like when people still insist Joe Gibbs will turn the Redskins around?

(sorry, couldn't resist):)

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;267739]OK not to get off topic, but do you honestly believe someone can be a good or bad roullette player? I don't know how many statistics classes you've taken over your lifetime, but basically, if you flip a fair and balanced coin, what are the chances it will land on heads? 50% right? Everyone knows that one. OK, so let's say the coin just landed on heads. Flip it again. What are the chances it will land on heads this time? 50% right? Again, an easy one. Now, imagine it has landed on heads 5 times in a row. Now flip it again. What are the chances it lands on heads this time?

50%.

The point is the odds don't change based on whatever patterns you're observing. Same goes for roullette, except instead of the coin resulting in two different outcomes, the ball can land on 38 different outcomes. So what are the chances that it will land on 00? 1/38.

Now imagine it has landed on 00 three times in a row. Now bet again. What are the chances it will land on 00 this time? 1/38.

There are no such things as patterns in roullette. The results are completely random. That's why in Vegas they say "if you think you have a roullette system, you've lost already."

Any success you've had in the past is purely the result of blind luck. You just happened to hit on the odds. If you're so good at it, and can predict the patterns, then why aren't you in Vegas now making a living off your prowess?

And that's the human condition in a nutshell. The need to search for patterns or meaning in completely random, unrelated, and meaningless events.[/QUOTE]

Glad to see you got my point. :rolleyes:

However, I will tell you this, I have NEVER lost in roulette. In fact I have paid for my cruises with my system...and I have written a short "book" on how anyone can do it. I've won my mother (a complete idiot in gambling) lots of money. There are several keys, like never bet a ton of money, but what I bank on is that the wheel will always right itself. Just because you can't understand how I win, doesn't mean it is not possible. Also, you never stay at the wheel more than approximately 5 minutes at a time...I will not divulge my system, especially to such a person that only wants to pick it apart without looking at it...but I will give my basics to anyone that wants them via private message. (please only people that have played it before, it takes too long to explain the entire table)

You ask why I don't live in Vegas?
1- Since I figured out that the world will right itself somehow / equal the field, I have won over 10k in 4 years. (hope the tax man isn't watching) However, it comes at a price. It takes time and energy.
2- It's not fun. I had fun when I started, but inevitably, you will lose some and then have to gain it back to win overall. It's work.
3- There ARE people that make a career out of it, and make a very good living. It's not your fault you don't know, you're just skeptical.

ps- flipping a coin is not like playing roulette, you have 38 options in roulette, only 2 with flipping a coin. But I will say this, try flipping a coin 100 times and always use more or less umph when flipping (like a roulette dealer will use more or less umph to toss the ball on the wheel) and keep track of how many times it hits heads or tails. If you flip the same way every time, it will hit one more than the other, but if you change it up the coin will hit heads anywhere from 40-60% of the time, so why does it not hit say 10% of the time? Or 15% of the time?
I actually did a long study of how many numbers were hit and how often..I did over 10,000 rolls on the roulette system, and I noticed patterns. Like, don't EVER pick the actual numbers, you will lose.

I made this way too long...especially since you likely will not listen.

After thinking about it, I don't think a PM could explain the system since it doesn't have enough room, I'd need to e-mail the system.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;267740]Well first off, we're not discussion what we tell our kids, we're discussing what adults believe. But no, there is no harm in having faith in something if it makes you feel better (provided you're not organizing against other faiths).[/quote]

You made a comment, I responded with a valid arguement, so while we here are not discussing what we tell our kids, it was used as an argument to help you understand my point.

[quote]I'm not arguing whether religion makes you feel better. It certainly does. I'm just arguing what is most likely the truth: there is no God. People just believe in him to feel better about their mortality, and all else that they cannot explain.[/quote]

Actually you are not arguing what is "most likely the truth". You are arguing what is "most likely your opinion". Because what is most likely the truth is that there is a higher being of some sort, and science proves that. Like I said before, science goes as far back as it can, then scientists say that something had to have started it all. Everything has a beginning, everything, the only thing (in theory) that doesn't, is a "devine" being. Also, ask a doctor how the human body was made, and he / she will say it's too complex to be by accident. Does this prove the existance of God? Not definitively, no. But it certainly would lean more towards the truth being that there is a God, not that there isn't.
If you want to feel that everything that happened to us and everything around you is just one giant coincidence, that's your choice. I will just never understand why someone would willingly choose a path that would never ever give them a chance of a positive effect, when the other path at the very least has a 50/50 shot of bringing them a positive effect. It's playing the odds...it's like you flipping a coin and choosing sofa instead of heads or tails. At least I take a shot at heads or tails. Could I be wrong? Yes. But I still have a shot...when you bet sofa, you won't / can't win.

[quote]I do the same thing as GManc. When my grandmom died I tried to think of her as living on in heaven. Or at least living on in my heart and in my memories. Did I believe it was the truth? Hell no. But I told myself that, and it got me through a rough time.[/quote]

If you truly don't beleive in it, then why lie to yourself? Or does your subconscious beleive, it's just your conscious that refuses to let it due to something that happened to you as a youngster. (I realize that sounds rude, and I assure you that is not my intent)

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;267978]Glad to see you got my point. :rolleyes:

However, I will tell you this, I have NEVER lost in roulette. In fact I have paid for my cruises with my system...and I have written a short "book" on how anyone can do it. I've won my mother (a complete idiot in gambling) lots of money. There are several keys, like never bet a ton of money, but what I bank on is that the wheel will always right itself. Just because you can't understand how I win, doesn't mean it is not possible. Also, you never stay at the wheel more than approximately 5 minutes at a time...I will not divulge my system, especially to such a person that only wants to pick it apart without looking at it...but I will give my basics to anyone that wants them via private message. (please only people that have played it before, it takes too long to explain the entire table)

You ask why I don't live in Vegas?
1- Since I figured out that the world will right itself somehow / equal the field, I have won over 10k in 4 years. (hope the tax man isn't watching) However, it comes at a price. It takes time and energy.
2- It's not fun. I had fun when I started, but inevitably, you will lose some and then have to gain it back to win overall. It's work.
3- There ARE people that make a career out of it, and make a very good living. It's not your fault you don't know, you're just skeptical.

ps- flipping a coin is not like playing roulette, you have 38 options in roulette, only 2 with flipping a coin. But I will say this, try flipping a coin 100 times and always use more or less umph when flipping (like a roulette dealer will use more or less umph to toss the ball on the wheel) and keep track of how many times it hits heads or tails. If you flip the same way every time, it will hit one more than the other, but if you change it up the coin will hit heads anywhere from 40-60% of the time, so why does it not hit say 10% of the time? Or 15% of the time?
I actually did a long study of how many numbers were hit and how often..I did over 10,000 rolls on the roulette system, and I noticed patterns. Like, don't EVER pick the actual numbers, you will lose.

I made this way too long...especially since you likely will not listen.

After thinking about it, I don't think a PM could explain the system since it doesn't have enough room, I'd need to e-mail the system.[/QUOTE]


Will your system work in Russian Roulette? :food-smil

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins;267750]the reason they cannot be proven is becaue they are just theoies. why is it people need scientific proof to know if something exists ? i believe some poeple who are non believers use science as a crutch. they are fearfull of what happens after death and they say to themselves "well i can't see god and there's not enough scientific evidence to prove he is real, so i'll just continue to not believe".

can you see the wind ? no, but you can see and feel the effects of the wind. what is your reasoning for believing there is a thing called wind? is it because some scientists created a way to measure the speed of it.[/QUOTE]

Very, very good post.
I also noticed the same thing. Evolution can't be proven, but it is universally beleived by athiests / agnostics etc. God can not be proven, but He is universally dismissed by the same people. Why is God dismissed, but evolution embraced? Niether can be proven 100%. Doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=saden1;267986]Will your system work in Russian Roulette? :food-smil[/QUOTE]

hahaha,
no...but it would work better if you were the first to pull the trigger. AT least then you have a 1 in 8 shot of it not getting you. I would just personally rather play with money..I can make more of that, I can't create another life. Not worth the odds.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=Schneed10;267727]The only reason the theories can't be proven was because we weren't around to record history over the course of billions of years. I'd love for you to go into details, because all of the arguments against the theory of evolution are scientifically flimsy at best.[/quote]
The arguments against evolution are a lot stronger than the arguments for it. Evolution has basically been proven to be false. The scientists just have no other ideas against a creator, so they are sticking with evolution.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=steveo395;267990]The arguments against evolution are a lot stronger than the arguments for it. Evolution has basically been proven to be false. The scientists just have no other ideas against a creator, so they are sticking with evolution.[/quote]

Can you please provide a link to some information that has proven evolution to be false?

Because now you're just making things up.

That's not even close to being true.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=jsarno;267978]Glad to see you got my point. :rolleyes:

However, I will tell you this, I have NEVER lost in roulette. In fact I have paid for my cruises with my system...and I have written a short "book" on how anyone can do it. I've won my mother (a complete idiot in gambling) lots of money. There are several keys, like never bet a ton of money, but what I bank on is that the wheel will always right itself. Just because you can't understand how I win, doesn't mean it is not possible. Also, you never stay at the wheel more than approximately 5 minutes at a time...I will not divulge my system, especially to such a person that only wants to pick it apart without looking at it...but I will give my basics to anyone that wants them via private message. (please only people that have played it before, it takes too long to explain the entire table)

You ask why I don't live in Vegas?
1- Since I figured out that the world will right itself somehow / equal the field, I have won over 10k in 4 years. (hope the tax man isn't watching) However, it comes at a price. It takes time and energy.
2- It's not fun. I had fun when I started, but inevitably, you will lose some and then have to gain it back to win overall. It's work.
3- There ARE people that make a career out of it, and make a very good living. It's not your fault you don't know, you're just skeptical.

ps- flipping a coin is not like playing roulette, you have 38 options in roulette, only 2 with flipping a coin. But I will say this, try flipping a coin 100 times and always use more or less umph when flipping (like a roulette dealer will use more or less umph to toss the ball on the wheel) and keep track of how many times it hits heads or tails. If you flip the same way every time, it will hit one more than the other, but if you change it up the coin will hit heads anywhere from 40-60% of the time, so why does it not hit say 10% of the time? Or 15% of the time?
I actually did a long study of how many numbers were hit and how often..I did over 10,000 rolls on the roulette system, and I noticed patterns. Like, don't EVER pick the actual numbers, you will lose.

I made this way too long...especially since you likely will not listen.

After thinking about it, I don't think a PM could explain the system since it doesn't have enough room, I'd need to e-mail the system.[/quote]

You're right, I definitely am not listening. Your system is full of crap. If you really believed that strongly in it, you'd be in Vegas making tons of money. You actually mean to tell me that betting roullette in Vegas is hard work?

Find me one mathemetician or one expert on gaming that would agree that patterns exist in roullette.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=wolfeskins;267750]the reason they cannot be proven is becaue they are just theoies. why is it people need scientific proof to know if something exists ? i believe some poeple who are non believers use science as a crutch. they are fearfull of what happens after death and they say to themselves "well i can't see god and there's not enough scientific evidence to prove he is real, so i'll just continue to not believe".

can you see the wind ? no, but you can see and feel the effects of the wind. what is your reasoning for believing there is a thing called wind? is it because some scientists created a way to measure the speed of it.[/quote]

I wasn't going to respond to this, but since Jsarno actually bought this crap, now I feel the need.

You can see and feel the effects of the wind because it has been scientifically proven to exist. Wind is caused by the movement of air molecules (oxygen, nitrogen, etc.) which moves due to differences in high and low barometric pressure. Those molecules are gaseous matter. They move towards low pressure pockets in the atmosphere. You can measure the wind's velocity - our weathermen can tell us when wind gusts hit 50 mph. This isn't voodoo. It's science.

And pretty simple science at that.

This post of yours makes me feel very disappointed in the American education system, specifically the math & science departments. You don't have to see something to know it exists. There are other ways to prove it. However, there is no proof that God exists.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

to say that you have NEVER lost in roulette, either you have only played a handful of times, or are full of it. because sooner or later, its always about the money

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=jsarno;267984]Actually you are not arguing what is "most likely the truth". You are arguing what is "most likely your opinion". Because what is most likely the truth is that there is a higher being of some sort, and science proves that. Like I said before, science goes as far back as it can, then scientists say that something had to have started it all. Everything has a beginning, everything, the only thing (in theory) that doesn't, is a "devine" being. Also, ask a doctor how the human body was made, and he / she will say it's too complex to be by accident. Does this prove the existance of God? Not definitively, no. But it certainly would lean more towards the truth being that there is a God, not that there isn't.
If you want to feel that everything that happened to us and everything around you is just one giant coincidence, that's your choice.[/quote]

Science proves that there's a divine being? Please provide a link.

Doctors say life is too complex to be made by accident? Please provide a link.

I don't believe a word you're telling me. It makes it very difficult to have a serious debate when someone just makes things up.

If you can substantiate it, then I'll continue this discussion. If you can't, well then you've wasted enough of my time already.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=Schneed10;267996]Can you please provide a link to some information that has proven evolution to be false?

Because now you're just making things up.

That's not even close to being true.[/quote]
[url=http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/top.htm]Top Evidences Against the Theory of Evolution[/url]
[I][QUOTE]
[I]It can be noted that natural selection as a driving mechanism for evolution is totally inadequate. Natural selection (along with mutation) is said to have caused organisms to evolve from one basic kind (animals which can reproduce with one another) into another basic kind. This is prohibited genetically since all of the information for the development of an organism has already been encoded in the DNA of its parent. Variation to organisms must remain within its basic kind. For example, genetically, a wide variety of dogs can come to exist, but a dog can never become anything other than a dog. It remains in its kind. It does not have the genetic ability to become anything more. Admitting this, evolutionists have tried to explain that natural selection happened in conjunction with mutations to the genetic code. This could not produce evolution, however, since mutations do not create new genetic potential, they just alter what is already there. Furthermore, mutations are small, random, and harmful alterations to the genetic code. This also makes evolution from mutations impossible. For example, a working wristwatch does not improve but is harmed when its inside parts are randomly altered. Natural selection also contradicts the second law of thermodynamics which states that, left to themselves, all things tend to deteriorate rather than develop, while evolution wants to go in the opposite direction. "Survival of the fittest" demonstrates only how an organism has survived, not how it has evolved.[/I]
[/QUOTE]
Just click on the link. It will tell you even more.[/I]

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=Schneed10;267999]I wasn't going to respond to this, but since Jsarno actually bought this crap, now I feel the need.

You can see and feel the effects of the wind because it has been scientifically proven to exist. Wind is caused by the movement of air molecules (oxygen, nitrogen, etc.) which moves due to differences in high and low barometric pressure. Those molecules are gaseous matter. They move towards low pressure pockets in the atmosphere. You can measure the wind's velocity - our weathermen can tell us when wind gusts hit 50 mph. This isn't voodoo. It's science.

And pretty simple science at that.

This post of yours makes me feel very disappointed in the American education system, specifically the math & science departments. You don't have to see something to know it exists. There are other ways to prove it. However, there is no proof that God exists.[/quote]

thank you, you are actually proving my point when you say "you don't have to see something to know it exists". that's the exact reason i know god does exist. just like the wind, i've never seen him but also just like the wind, i have seen and felt the effects of him.
we can debate this until we're both blue in the face but the fact is god has changed me, he has made me into a different person, that is a fact you can never argue against. i'm living proof that god does exist.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

Losing in the context of gambling is not equivalent to losing 1 single game. Losing is simply a matter of coming out with less money than you went in with. Like with everything else in life you can mitigate risk. I mean, If you drink too much you're chance of liver/kidney problems are higher. The less you do anything the more you stand a chance of coming out on top. jsarno has said he only plays for 5 min which mitigates the chance of losing tremendously. Take a look at the game of poker. That game requires discipline, patience and the ability to know when to quit.

In the long run though you will lose...everyone loses.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins;268008]thank you, you are actually proving my point when you say "you don't have to see something to know it exists". that's the exact reason i know god does exist. just like the wind, i've never seen him but also just like the wind, i have seen and felt the effects of him.
we can debate this until we're both blue in the face but the fact is god has changed me, he has made me into a different person, that is a fact you can never argue against. i'm living proof that god does exist.[/QUOTE]

What were you doing when god was changing you? Sit idle? My take is that you made the necessary changes, god just inspired you.

I am glad for you but the fact of the matter is your "transformation" is not something you can scientifically study to prove the existence of god. In hard sciences anyways but perhaps psychologically and philosophically.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=saden1;268013]What were you doing when god was changing you? Sit idle? My take is that you made the necessary changes, god just inspired you.

I am glad for you but the fact of the matter is your "transformation" is not something you can scientifically study to prove the existence of god. In hard sciences anyways but perhaps psychologically and philosophically.[/quote]

thank you for being glad for me. hopefully, one day, you'll understand and then i can be glad for you as well.

god bless

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

Roulette 101: Pick a number, put down a wager, like $5. If the ball does not land on your #, you lose $5. Since you are down $5 you need to make the original wager plus your total loss. So place a $10 bet on the same number. If you lose the $10 dollars you must put in (at least) $15. You have to have sufficient funds to continue with this way of wagering until eventually your number is the one that the ball lands on. It may take a thousand dollars or more but that's about the only (and simplest) way of making cash in roulette. The key is picking the same number (or group of numbers) until you win AND you always bet more than your total loss thus far.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;268018]Roulette 101: Pick a number, put down a wager, like $5. If the ball does not land on your #, you lose $5. Since you are down $5 you need to make the original wager plus your total loss. So place a $10 bet on the same number. If you lose the $10 dollars you must put in (at least) $15. You have to have sufficient funds to continue with this way of wagering until eventually your number is the one that the ball lands on. It may take a thousand dollars or more but that's about the only (and simplest) way of making cash in roulette. The key is picking the same number (or group of numbers) until you win AND you always bet more than your total loss thus far.[/quote]

Wrong again, Flanders. There are 38 squares on the board (including 0 and 00), but you only get paid 36 times your money for hitting a number.

Do that over time and you're going to lose, guaranteed.

Gambling wins and losses come from repeating the bets over the short run. Over the short run, luck rules the game. Over the long run, the math always wins.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=wolfeskins;268008]thank you, you are actually proving my point when you say "you don't have to see something to know it exists". that's the exact reason i know god does exist. just like the wind, i've never seen him but also just like the wind, i have seen and felt the effects of him.
we can debate this until we're both blue in the face but the fact is god has changed me, he has made me into a different person, that is a fact you can never argue against. i'm living proof that god does exist.[/quote]

You need to check your definition of "know" and "believe". Nobody knows for sure if God exists or not. You believe it.

The difference between the wind and God is that there is logical and scientific evidence to prove the existence of wind.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=steveo395;268002][URL="http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/top.htm"]Top Evidences Against the Theory of Evolution[/URL]
[I]
Just click on the link. It will tell you even more.[/I][/quote]

You call this "proof"???

"There are no transitional links and intermediate forms in either the fossil record or the modern world. Therefore, there is no actual evidence that evolution has occurred either in the past or the present."

That doesn't prove anything. All that says is that evolution has not been proven. It definitely does not say that evolution has been disproven.

PS Don't give me a link to a ridiculous site done by some hack named Doug LaPointe and pass it off as scientific proof.

What a fucking joke. Give me a scientific journal or some other source with credibility. I mean give me an effing break, the Vatican can't even put out anything that disproves the theory of evolution.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

LOL this thread is hilarious

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;268073]LOL this thread is hilarious[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you find it funny. I'm not really sure how gambling and wind entered the conversation.

Folks, this tread is about me and god and whether I'm going to hell for no longer having faith in him/her/it. A poll is perhaps in order?

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=saden1;268077]I'm glad you find it funny. I'm not really sure how gambling and wind entered the conversation.

Folks, this tread is about me and god and whether I'm going to hell for no longer having faith in him/her/it. A poll is perhaps in order?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I was wondering when someone would point out this went way off what the original question was.

If you have no faith, then I suppose you don't think there's a hell in which case why would you worry about going to a place that doesn't exist? Or something like that