Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

One of my greatest childhood memories was driving to the Hall from D.C. to Ohio with my childhood friend and his dad. I'll never forget it.

I think every year that Monk doesn't get in, it just further dimishes what the HOF is all about. To me, the HOF is becoming less relevant every year.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

Mike Florio's Editorial on PFT on Monk v Irvin:

IRVIN OVER MONK SENDS A BAD MESSAGE

Now that Cowboys receiver Michael Irvin has leap-frogged Redskins/Jets/Eagles receiver Art Monk into Canton, we think it's high time for everyone who appreciates the talents of someone who does their job, does it well, keeps his mouth shut, and stays out of trouble to stand up and shout: "Why!?!"

Monk made it through 16 NFL seasons, and finished with 940 catches, 12,721 yards, and 68 touchdowns. He won three Super Bowl rings with three different quarterbacks (none of whom are or ever should be in the Hall of Fame) throwing the passes.

Irvin played 12 years, and caught 750 passes for 11,904 yards and 65 touchdowns. He won three Super Bowls with Hall of Famer Troy Aikman distributing the pill.

The only real difference between the two? Irvin was a loudmouth on the field, and a turd off of it. Monk was neither.

We know. We know. A player's off-the-field exploits are not to be considered, per Hall of Fame bylaws. Well, why hasn't it occurred to someone to change the damn bylaws?

What message does it send to kids out there when a receiver who acts responsibly and humbly on and off the field gets passed over by a guy with lesser career stats? And what happens if/when Irvin (who from time to time appears to be incoherent on the air) dishonors the assembly of busts (which per John Madden come to life at night and talk to each other) if/when Irvin gets arrested again?

We've been to Canton, and it's weird to see O.J. Simpson's bust among those of all of the non-murderers. In his case, though, no one had an inkling that he might someday treat his ex-wife and her friend like a couple of Thanksgiving turkeys. For guys like Irvin, will anyone be surprised if/when he does something that will tarnish the entire body of players who represent true excellence in the sport?

When a team drafts a guy with a history of misconduct and the player commits further misconduct after joining the team, the team that selected him rightly is criticized. We think that the organization and its selection committee fairly should face the same scrutiny if/when Irvin casts shame on the Hall of Fame.

[url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm]ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet[/url]

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

Character and class aside, Art Monk was a great reciever!

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

Just went to ESPN's website. The poll asks, Which player are you surprised was omitted? An overwhelmingly 39% of America said Art Monk. Now all of them are not Redskins fans. They are informative football fans. No good bastards at ESPN.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[quote=GTripp0012;274694]Mike Florio's Editorial on PFT on Monk v Irvin:

IRVIN OVER MONK SENDS A BAD MESSAGE

Now that Cowboys receiver Michael Irvin has leap-frogged Redskins/Jets/Eagles receiver Art Monk into Canton, we think it's high time for everyone who appreciates the talents of someone who does their job, does it well, keeps his mouth shut, and stays out of trouble to stand up and shout: "Why!?!"

Monk made it through 16 NFL seasons, and finished with 940 catches, 12,721 yards, and 68 touchdowns. He won three Super Bowl rings with three different quarterbacks (none of whom are or ever should be in the Hall of Fame) throwing the passes.

Irvin played 12 years, and caught 750 passes for 11,904 yards and 65 touchdowns. He won three Super Bowls with Hall of Famer Troy Aikman distributing the pill.

The only real difference between the two? Irvin was a loudmouth on the field, and a turd off of it. Monk was neither.

We know. We know. A player's off-the-field exploits are not to be considered, per Hall of Fame bylaws. Well, why hasn't it occurred to someone to change the damn bylaws?

What message does it send to kids out there when a receiver who acts responsibly and humbly on and off the field gets passed over by a guy with lesser career stats? And what happens if/when Irvin (who from time to time appears to be incoherent on the air) dishonors the assembly of busts (which per John Madden come to life at night and talk to each other) if/when Irvin gets arrested again?

We've been to Canton, and it's weird to see O.J. Simpson's bust among those of all of the non-murderers. In his case, though, no one had an inkling that he might someday treat his ex-wife and her friend like a couple of Thanksgiving turkeys. For guys like Irvin, will anyone be surprised if/when he does something that will tarnish the entire body of players who represent true excellence in the sport?

When a team drafts a guy with a history of misconduct and the player commits further misconduct after joining the team, the team that selected him rightly is criticized. We think that the organization and its selection committee fairly should face the same scrutiny if/when Irvin casts shame on the Hall of Fame.

[URL="http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm"]ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet[/URL][/quote]

PFT has been my favorite NFL site for awhile now, many people dont like it but I normally look at it everyday. They are pretty unbias and say the things that other places refuse too, what a great group of guys they have over there, kudos to Pro Football Talk for staying true to themselves.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[quote=irish;274683]I feel bad for Monk but like I've said in the past he was a good receiver but not HoF material. I think us Redskins fans are just going to have to accept the fact that Monk is not going into the HoF.[/quote]



Your an Idiot, you dont know what you are talking about.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[QUOTE=Monk-Fan;274701]Your an Idiot, you dont know what you are talking about.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the intelligent insight.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

we need to get rid of these writers who know less than most of us about football and put retired hall of fame coaches and players on a board to vote them in or not. who better to judge the worthiness or unworthiness of someone to enter the hall than one who is in there. what idiot put these know nothings never played game gum shoes in charge of who enters and who doesn't. they have proven again incapable of making wise choices. putting captian push off in before mr monk is beyond rediculous it's an insult.the hall will no longer matter to me as long as these people are allowd to make choices that they are not qualified to make.being a writer and or going to college doesn't impress me or make one more able to pick someone to enter the hall.the sheen is off the hall in my book.well, mr monk, you have been and always will a HALL OF FAMER to me and millions of others.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

I know a lot of people are pissed about today's vote and perhaps Irish might have wanted to wait a day or two to post something saying Monk doesn't deserve to be in, but Irish IS entitled to his opinion and DOES deserve respect. So, please do not enage in personal attacks.

That being said, Irish, what the hell are you thinking! (j/k). But seriously, how can you possibly say that Monk doesn't deserve to be in? Because he didn't make a memorable catch? If that is actually a criterion of yours, then Brandon Lloyd should start getting ready to have his bust made. What does a memorable catch have to do with anything? What, if anything else, are your reasons why you don't think he should be in?

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;274707]I know a lot of people are pissed about today's vote and perhaps Irish might have wanted to wait a day or two to post something saying Monk doesn't deserve to be in, but Irish IS entitled to his opinion and DOES deserve respect. So, please do not enage in personal attacks.

That being said, Irish, what the hell are you thinking! (j/k). But seriously, how can you possibly say that Monk doesn't deserve to be in? Because he didn't make a memorable catch? If that is actually a criterion of yours, then Brandon Lloyd should start getting ready to have his bust made. What does a memorable catch have to do with anything? What, if anything else, are your reasons why you don't think he should be in?[/QUOTE]

IMO the one of the biggest reasons Monk did not get the votes is because in the Super Bowls he just was not any kind of factor. I know he cant help how he was used (or not used) in the game plan but thats just the way it is. Also as I have said in the past his numbers while good when he retired are just not that outstanding now. He needed to get in within the first couple of years he was eligible, now that thats passed his numbers and memory keep fading. Unfortunately I just dont see him ever getting in.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

Tremendous crock of steaming horseshit. DALLAS SUCKS!
I hate Michael Irvin. He sucks too.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[quote=irish;274709]IMO the one of the biggest reasons Monk did not get the votes is because in the Super Bowls he just was not any kind of factor. I know he cant help how he was used (or not used) in the game plan but thats just the way it is. Also as I have said in the past his numbers while good when he retired are just not that outstanding now. He needed to get in within the first couple of years he was eligible, now that thats passed his numbers and memory keep fading. Unfortunately I just dont see him ever getting in.[/quote]

Now you are starting to get to me. You say while his numbers were good when he retired????????? He was th NFL all time leader in receptions when he retired. Take a look at the word good in the dictionary because you don't know what it means.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

I think its hard for [B][U]anyone[/U][/B] (Black, White, Asian, Rich, Poor, Religious, Non-believing, Cowboys Fan, intelligent football analyst, ignorant sportswriter) to say that Michael Irvin is clear cut better than Art Monk was. Their stats are pretty similar, Monk was better for longer, and Irvin has the better yards per catch (He also has nearly 200 fewer catches).

I don't have a big problem with Irvin getting in before Monk, but I have a huge problem with anyone who thinks that Irvin DID deserve to get in and also thinks that Art Monk DOESNT deserve it. That person owes me a personal explination.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

Hold on now, guys. It actually seems to me that irish thinks he should have gotten in at one time but now that more and more receivers are becoming eligible with greater numbers, his chances are greatly diminishing.

I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong, irish) that he's saying Art is not HOF worthy, it's just that he's going to keep dropping down the list of NFL receiving stats, which is a primary focus of the election process.

By the way, I totally believe and always will believe that Art Monk should be in so don't take this post as me saying the opposite. I just didn't want this day to turn into one where fellow Redskins fans attack one another.

United we stand!

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

Just another example of how even negative press is better than no press. A crackhead loudmouth gets in before Monk. I don't know which was worse Irvin or Carson.

I swear that the negative bias by the media towards Snyder is a factor.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

"... but Irish IS entitled to his opinion ..."

I agree with this

"...and DOES deserve respect. So, please do not enage in personal attacks. "

But not this. Irish purposely tries to instigate trouble and therefore does not deserve to be shielded from abuse. His comments are akin to shouting "fire" in a crowded movie theatre.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;274717]Just another example of how even negative press is better than no press. A crackhead loudmouth gets in before Monk. [B]I don't know which was worse Irvin or Carson.[/B]

I swear that the negative bias by the media towards Snyder is a factor.[/quote]

Irvin. I told my wife earlier this morning "the only way this day could be worse if Monk doesn't get in was if Irvin gets in first."

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

**** IRVIN! I cant believe that coke-addled retarded piece of no count garbage got in b4 MONK! What the flying HELL! I am SOOOOOO mad.....i feel ya 724 skinsfan...i said the same thing...it could only get worse if Irvin gets in first. Screw that foolish HOF commitee. They have no clue WTF they are doing. Monk didnt make memorable catches my ASS! I agree sheriff gonna getcha, they should have a voting commitee of eother people who played with him or against him during his years, or other HOF players/coaches.

This is a sad day not in just Redskins history, but in the history of mankind. The f-ing world has lost its godddam mind Putting Irvin in there first.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[IMG]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41502000/jpg/_41502582_monk416.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;274718]"... but Irish IS entitled to his opinion ..."

I agree with this

"...and DOES deserve respect. So, please do not enage in personal attacks. "

But not this. Irish purposely tries to instigate trouble and therefore does not deserve to be shielded from abuse. His comments are akin to shouting "fire" in a crowded movie theatre.[/QUOTE]

I didn't notice it before, but then again my memory sucks. Perhaps he did or did not antagonize people in other posts, but his post in this thread probably didn't warrant personal attacks, even if it was ill-timed.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

My reaction to the anouncement on NFL Films earlier today:

[URL="http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9iby4KaQ8VFvh4BvQOJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjcXBoZjEwBHBvcwMzBHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=1h98fjho3/EXP=1170642202/**http%3A//images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view%3Fback=http%253A%252F%252Fimages.search.yahoo.com%252Fsearch%252Fimages%253F_adv_prop%253Dimages%2526imgsz%253Dall%2526imgc%253D%2526vf%253Dall%2526va%253Dprincess%252Bbride%2526fr%253Dvz-web%2526ei%253DUTF-8%26w=501%26h=480%26imgurl=www.peachstapler.com%252Fbride.jpg%26rurl=http%253A%252F%252Fforums.cgsociety.org%252Fprintthread.php%253Ft%253D123527%2526pp%253D50%26size=36.6kB%26name=bride.jpg%26p=princess%2Bbride%26type=jpeg%26no=3%26tt=15,795%26oid=231a434dbb1103e8%26ei=UTF-8"][IMG]http://re3.mm-a6.yimg.com/image/3576583711[/IMG][/URL]

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;274730]My reaction to the anouncement on NFL Films earlier today:

[URL="http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9iby4KaQ8VFvh4BvQOJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjcXBoZjEwBHBvcwMzBHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=1h98fjho3/EXP=1170642202/**http%3A//images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view%3Fback=http%253A%252F%252Fimages.search.yahoo.com%252Fsearch%252Fimages%253F_adv_prop%253Dimages%2526imgsz%253Dall%2526imgc%253D%2526vf%253Dall%2526va%253Dprincess%252Bbride%2526fr%253Dvz-web%2526ei%253DUTF-8%26w=501%26h=480%26imgurl=www.peachstapler.com%252Fbride.jpg%26rurl=http%253A%252F%252Fforums.cgsociety.org%252Fprintthread.php%253Ft%253D123527%2526pp%253D50%26size=36.6kB%26name=bride.jpg%26p=princess%2Bbride%26type=jpeg%26no=3%26tt=15,795%26oid=231a434dbb1103e8%26ei=UTF-8"][IMG]http://re3.mm-a6.yimg.com/image/3576583711[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]

Hilarious. Gotta love that movie.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;274707]I know a lot of people are pissed about today's vote and perhaps Irish might have wanted to wait a day or two to post something saying Monk doesn't deserve to be in, but Irish IS entitled to his opinion and DOES deserve respect. So, please do not enage in personal attacks.

That being said, Irish, what the hell are you thinking! (j/k). But seriously, how can you possibly say that Monk doesn't deserve to be in? Because he didn't make a memorable catch? If that is actually a criterion of yours, then Brandon Lloyd should start getting ready to have his bust made. What does a memorable catch have to do with anything? What, if anything else, are your reasons why you don't think he should be in?[/quote]

I aggree, isnt the majority of Monk's stats better than Irvin's? so stats dont matter the amount of drugs and hookers one screws counts? then i see why monk didnt make it , its just because he stayed quiet and you didnt hear about any off the field issues involving him.. as why i see the forbidden T.O. make it. just cuz hes in the media alot. like i said before I lost all respect for the Ballot casters that didnt vote him in. Who held all the records that Rice had to break? . guess that doesnt count either.. as i say F**K them

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

it's all political bullshit!if they put in 8 ball irvin and andre reed before monk,that just shows me that all the assholes who vote in the hof balloting,are voting because they just can't kiss a guy like irvin,or howie long's enough.i was gonna try to go this summer,but i'll doubt i'll ever go now!!!!!

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

This is a crock of shit, The NFL hall of Fame is getting more commercial then the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Art Monk should have been in a long time ago much like Kiss should have been in the RR HOF a long time ago. All just a bunch of BS.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

Michael Irvin clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame. The crime that is being perpetrated by keeping Monk out has nothing to do with Irvin's admission. What has happened, in my opinion, is that the anti-Monk spin originally created by King and the coalition he built to keep Monk out has now taken root and is becoming more difficult to dislodge with each passing year.

There was a time when I thought Monk was a first-ballot no-brainer. Now, for the first time I am seriously worried that he may not make it in. This was an [I]extremely[/I] weak class- if not this year, when?

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

I mean, Charlie Pride made it in. Wasn't he a singer?

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

If you want to do something about this, let's stop thinking small and annoying like spamming the hacks who snubbed Art, or writing letters to Canton (who clearly don't care).

See my thread:

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/16959-lets-do-something-art.html[/url]

And let's get something going. I've already contacted Tom K. of Monk4TheHall.com (the guy who put the great YouTube video campaign together) and he's in. Who else is with me?

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

this is unbelieveable...have the folks who do the voting not seen the video clips of some of his catches...this blows my mind. art monk deserves to be in the hall...not to sound like a homer...but as far as i am concerned is a hall of famer in my book.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

the more i read everyone elses posts the madder i get. micheal irvin before art monk you have got to be kidding me. getting elected to the hall is more of a popularity contest than anything else these days...what a joke. I am gonna mass email the video i saw here to all the voters whose email address i can find.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

The hall is officially a joke. I would love to see thousands of Redskins fans show up at the ceremony wearing Monk jerseys. I also think Irvin should be booed heavily during his speech.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[quote=Lady Brave;274766]The hall is officially a joke. I would love to see thousands of Redskins fans show up at the ceremony wearing Monk jerseys. I also think Irvin should be booed heavily during his speech.[/quote]


Jesus! That what be great....or instead of booing, someone could bust out a boombox with the "White Lines" song right before he starts speaking....**** the HOF voters....they wouldnt know greatness if it kicked their teeth in!

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

If you really want to honor Art, let's stop acting the way Irvin did in his career, and start acting the way Art did.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[quote=dgack;274770]If you really want to honor Art, let's stop acting the way Irvin did in his career, and start acting the way Art did.[/quote]


I feel pwned.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

Art will get in someday, but it will have to be when there aren't any other reputable receivers to compete with. He should be in.

That said, I think Irish has a point in that Monk wasn't the game-breaking playmaker that Michael Irvin was. That's not saying he was a better receiver than Monk, it's just that he was more visible. It's kind of like how offensive linemen are compared with running backs or wideouts. They're just as vital to the success of a team, but they are the unsung heroes. That was Art Monk. I knew from the very beginning that if it were Monk vs. Irvin for the hall, Irvin would win hands down. Not saying it's right -- it's just the way it is.

I actually believe Gary Clark was more of a dominant threat -- why isn't he ever mentioned for the hall?

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

does anyone have Gary Clark's career stats? and that theory is baloney, because we can say that Emmitt Smith was more of a threat then Irvin. and what memorable catch does Irvin have? i really cant see any justification for monk not being elected

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;274714]Hold on now, guys. It actually seems to me that irish thinks he should have gotten in at one time but now that more and more receivers are becoming eligible with greater numbers, his chances are greatly diminishing.

I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong, irish) that he's saying Art is not HOF worthy, it's just that he's going to keep dropping down the list of NFL receiving stats, which is a primary focus of the election process.

By the way, I totally believe and always will believe that Art Monk should be in so don't take this post as me saying the opposite. I just didn't want this day to turn into one where fellow Redskins fans attack one another.

United we stand![/QUOTE]

You are correct. At the time he retired I thought he was a shoe-in for the HoF. Now in 2007 he has been gone for quite some time so he slips from memory and his stats keep slipping. When one looks at him in comparision to those that came after his stats are decent but just dont stand out as an obvious HoF choice. If he didnt get in within 2 or 3 years of his becomming eligible then I just see no way he's getting in now.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

I can see where Irish is coming from with this. It is more of an argument of popularity....staying in the publics eye and reminding them of who you are, rather than to let your actions as a player and a person speak for themselves. If Monk got into the broadcast both Sunday in and Sunday, he would have been selected years ago. But, because he chose to take the road of being a normal person, walking away from the game completely and enjoying his life with his family, that isn't as impressive looking to the media. Until that changes, the selection process of the Hall of Fame will always be broken.

In a perfect world, players are chosen according to how they were as a player AND how they were as a person. By selecting players to the HoF, we are basically saying, these are the greatest players/persons to ever play the game of football. These guys are worthy of your worship. Now of course, I don't believe anybody is worthy of worship except for Jesus Christ, but you get the picture. Those who select these HoFer's don't consider substance abuse, violent and/or homicidal tendencies, being arrested......I believe a true Hall of Fame does look at the personal factors. I think is should be so selective, that only a very few should get in. Heck, there might only be one person who gets in per year, but that is the only way the HoF would be credible in my opinion.

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

i am the opposite of this. i think players should be judged solely on the ability to play whatever sport they are talented in. but going strictly by stats alone, how is monk not in?

Re: Art Monk Denied Admission to the HoF
 

Mark Schlereth (sp) (former Skin) just totally ripped the voters on ESPN for not voting Art Monk in. He said he was personally dumbfounded and called the 39 voters "clowns".

He was so livid, he referred to Monk as James Arthur Monk,...hillarious! He said no wide receiver deserves to be in the Hall before Monk, Irvin included. I was suprised that he called out Irvin like that.