Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=Hog1;276664]While I certainly dignify your right to any opinion you wish to have, do you consider yourself an optimist?

noun
def. a person disposed to take a favorable view of things

It does not appear that your post falls in this area?

pessimist

A tendency to stress the negative or unfavorable or to take the gloomiest possible view

It does seem to fall in this group?

Just an observation, but I cannot believe the things you detail will happen. And, the Skins don't "owe" me anything. I don't really expect them to worry about "showing" me anything, to garner my support. I choose to follow them for better, for worse. I can un-choose that at any time[/quote]

I'm not claiming to be an optimist or a pessimist. I don't think those labels can be assigned to anyone based on an opinion held on a lone topic (a football team) at one single point in time.

Also, if you will re-read my post I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm simply stating what I think about the Redskins short-term prospects here in February of 2007. I could feel much differently a year from now or even in July for that matter. Or not. And I'm not sure where I said the Redskins "owed" anybody anything. I said only that I could understand fans who had shifted into a "show me" mode in light of the team's history of what appeared to be key offseason aquisitions failing to alter the team's overall fortunes. Last year was just the most recent example; I'm sure you are familar enough with the team's recent history (last 10 years or so) to know that.

I'm also not sure what you are implying about choosing to support the team (or maybe I'm just looking at it from the vantage point of thirty-plus years of following old D.C.). Over the long haul, one's support the Redskins has nothing to do with how you feel about their playoff prospects for 2007.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

Point well taken! HTTR

Re: Well Well Now The Superbowl Over. Its Time For The Skins Superbowl Staring With F
 

[quote=canthetuna;276329]i think we shouldn't go after any talent at all, but field a team of coaches only... since they know the position better than the players and we have enough of them... AND they don't count against the salary cap...

who's with me??[/quote]

i,m with ya..keep the team together.....let,s go after some coaches..

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

I don't see the issue w/ giving my opinion on the redskins, their coaches, players, plays, FO, etc. This is a skins website right?

Now, their are some who change their stance every week of the season. One week we are SB champions the next we are the worst team ever. You kinda get sick of seeing that.

We haven't exactly lit it up since Snyder became owner. So, I for one, will always be CAUTIOUSLY optimistic, until the skins prove otherwise.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=The Huddle;276660][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]I agree with you to a point, but I don't think it's unreasonable for some normally optimistic fans to sit back in "show me" mode at this point. It's fine to get excited about off-season acquisitions if you want to- God knows I've done it often enough -but with the franchise there really hasn't been any record of splashy spring signings leading to success on the field.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]In fact, there hasn't been any record of any [I]sustained[/I] success in a decade and half.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Also, while Joe Gibbs status as one of the most beloved figures in franchise history is in no way in jeopardy, I have no problem with open skepticism toward Gibbs II at this point. There's simply nothing impressive about a three year record of 21-27 with just one trip to the playoffs (1-1). Also, it's not at all hard to understand why a 5-11 record three years into a five year deal would bring harsh criticism. I suppose all sorts of analysis can be done to explain how W-L record doesn't accurately reflect the progress that's been made, blah, blah, blah, but at the end of the day it is what it is. If we're going to lavish Gibbs with praise when things go well, it's perfectly fair to hold him accountable when they don't. It's not a one-way street.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]I am hopeful that every year will bring success for the Redskins, a hope that has taken root and grown every off season since the George Allen days. I will follow the team's moves in the upcoming months with great interest. But when I separate my hopes from what my best guess is based on the evidence, do I think they will actually field playoff team in 2007? No. Do I think Gibbs II will ultimately be successful? No. Does that make me less of a fan, or a "hater"? I don't think so. It's not a declaration of loyalty/disloyalty; it's just an opinion, no more or less valid than anyone else's. If I turn out to be wrong, great! I'm thrilled! We can toast a Super Bowl championship while I happily listen to others tell me just how wrong I was. On the other hand, if I'm right it doesn't mean I'll be happy about it.[/COLOR]
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Good points. And I agree. I'm off the group that says this team can win and here's why and this what they need to improve upon. And I think you're of the group that says this team can't win UNLESS they change this and that and here's how they need to accomplish that. And I think both sides are what make the site great. But it's the "there's no hope ever" group that I just don't understand.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;277063]Good points. And I agree. I'm off the group that says this team can win and here's why and this what they need to improve upon. And I think you're of the group that says this team can't win UNLESS they change this and that and here's how they need to accomplish that. And I think both sides are what make the site great. But it's the "there's no hope ever" group that I just don't understand.[/QUOTE]

I agree. There are some people who see everything as broken and the sky is falling. Football, for most of us, is sports entertainment for us. I think we as fans tend to get so caught up in the fine details that we lose track of just sitting back, rooting for the team we love, and just watching the game in general. For me, it isn't about how we win so much as us winning and doing the things that make us a good team. That is what is important to us. I don't care if our "stars" come from free agency or the draft. Heck, I don't care if our star players are 22, 32, 42, or even 52...as long as they get the job done...that is what matters the most to me.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

I think they should forget Clements and Samuel and go for A. Thomas. He is a difference maker and is versatile. If they sign a big time corner and neglect the front seven they are setting themselves up for another bust.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=TAFKAS;277063]Good points. And I agree. I'm off the group that says this team can win and here's why and this what they need to improve upon. And I think you're of the group that says this team can't win UNLESS they change this and that and here's how they need to accomplish that. And I think both sides are what make the site great. But it's the "there's no hope ever" group that I just don't understand.[/quote]

Nice summation of the differences in how the two groups see things. And I agree with you that negativity for negativity's sake is pointless. For the most part I think there's a civil and spirited debate coming from both sides on this site, but there is a certain element that thinks simply saying "The Redskins suck" or "Snyder is a loser" is somehow advancing an arguement of some sort. I don't understand that either.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

I believe I hope to have hope.

What category of fan does that get me into?

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

According to Jason LaCanfora's latest blog entry about the Redskins' free agency plans, Jason hasn't heard any indication that the Redskins are going to attempt to re-structure Wynn or Daniels' contracts. Jason speculates that this might not bode well for either Wynn or Daniels, whose cap figures exceed their levels of production.

Re: Well Well Now The Superbowl Over. Its Time For The Skins Superbowl Staring With F
 

[quote=ncskinsfanec;276508]I couldn't agree more with your comments! I think we'll lay low during this offseason, and hopefully the good things that happened toward the end of this past season will carry over into this coming season. I know almost everyone has given up on Gibbs around here, but I think he'll do all he can to make sure that 5-11 never happens again under his watch! The man is unquestioned when it comes to making adjustments![/quote]

Gibbs 1 was unquestioned when it comes to making adjustments. Not Gibbs 2.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;277243]According to Jason LaCanfora's latest blog entry about the Redskins' free agency plans, Jason hasn't heard any indication that the Redskins are going to attempt to re-structure Wynn or Daniels' contracts. Jason speculates that this might not bode well for either Wynn or Daniels, whose cap figures exceed their levels of production.[/quote]

Good. It's time to move on and get some young blood in there. Daniels blames his poor play on the off season program. So let him train on his own and invite him to camp to see if he can win a spot. Wynn just does not have it anymore.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;277100]I think they should forget Clements and Samuel and go for A. Thomas. He is a difference maker and is versatile. If they sign a big time corner and neglect the front seven they are setting themselves up for another bust.[/quote]

Do you suggest we give big $ to a player who is going into his 8th year and will be 30 by the time next season comes around? Aren't we trying to get away from this type of quick fix football?

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=Hog1;276651]Amen, brother Wolfe!
I love this time of year. I love the way the Skins go after players. The whole Redskin One treatment is very impressive. I would like to see somewhat more conservatism here and there, but it's great. I can't wait to see who they go after.[/quote]

Are you serious? The FA way does not work. It never works. But I guess even some of the fans are buying into it.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=skinsfan69;277255]Do you suggest we give big $ to a player who is going into his 8th year and will be 30 by the time next season comes around? Aren't we trying to get away from this type of quick fix football?[/quote]

They are going to spend big money on someone. Why not a guy who was the consensus best player on a defense that some were comparing to the best ever?

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=skinsfan69;277260]Are you serious? The FA way does not work. It never works. But I guess even some of the fans are buying into it.[/quote]

At this point this is their only chance. Gibbs is probably gone after this year whether they have a good year or not. He isn't coaching in '07 to rebuild.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

I remember reading that Daniels and Wynn were both big locker room presences, and that it would be resultantly difficult to cut both of them, at least from a morale perspective. It was interesting to hear Portis's interview with John Thompson, in which he mentioned the importance that players like James Thrash aｎｄ Robert Royal had had for team chemistry. Here you had the biggest star on the team talking about guys who were (are) at best role players being true core Redskins. I have heard that both Daniels and Wynn fit that mold as well.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

well they kept wynn as a 2.4mill BACKUP last year, which is an insane number, though, if they want to spend this year, they're going to have to make the room somewhere.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;277264]At this point this is their only chance. Gibbs is probably gone after this year whether they have a good year or not. He isn't coaching in '07 to rebuild.[/quote]

So I guess what the FA office is trying to do is win one for Joe.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=djnemo65;277282]I remember reading that Daniels and Wynn were both big locker room presences, and that it would be resultantly difficult to cut both of them, at least from a morale perspective. It was interesting to hear Portis's interview with John Thompson, in which he mentioned the importance that players like James Thrash aｎｄ Robert Royal had had for team chemistry. Here you had the biggest star on the team talking about guys who were (are) at best role players being true core Redskins. I have heard that both Daniels and Wynn fit that mold as well.[/quote]

Wasn't our defense last in the NFL in sacks? Do either of these guys put any type of pressure on the QB? It's time to move on already. New leaders need to develop. I think it's time for Sean Taylor to take more of a leadership role.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;277297]Wasn't our defense last in the NFL in sacks? Do either of these guys put any type of pressure on the QB? It's time to move on already. New leaders need to develop. I think it's time for Sean Taylor to take more of a leadership role.[/QUOTE]

I'm not advocating either way, I'm just saying the front office seems to have sown a lot of animosity in the locker room by letting some liked guys go. Given that, it will be interesting to see how they handle this kind of situation.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

As a long-time 'Skins fan (since '66), I've experienced the gamut of emotions in following this team (exilerating highs in '82, '83, '87 and '91) and humbling lows (most of the Norv Turner years). And yes, it appears that, at least under the current FO structure, the coming months are our time of year!

That being said, is it too much to hope for that we'd begin to take a more measured approach towards FA! Let's review for a moment, shall we, last years key signings ...

[B]Andre Carter, DE [/B]- had some ??? regarding his skills as a full-time DL, and durability was an issue. But as the year wore on, AC became more of a force.
I go back and watch the tapes of the last month or so of the season, and he's making more and more plays, on a consistant basis. And he's still young enough to be a solid pick-up. He's not a feature DE, but he's a very good complimentary DE, if we had a real "stud" DE across from him.

[B]Brandon Lloyd, WR [/B]- What, in the name of Vince Lombardi, were we thinking here? BL's reputation was well known around the league (a poor man's TO), and he's always been shy about running the crossing routes. He basically runs two routes ... a go route, and a 12 to 15 yd. curl ... and he made enough drops in crucial situations once JC got in the game (the drop to open the Tampa game was just brutal) to get his rear-end sent to the bench.
IMO, a boneheaded move by whoever is making the personel decisions here.

That said, can he rebound and be a viable part of this emerging offense in '07? It's all up to him ... perehaps he can take a few pointers from SM on how to be a team guy. He came here known as a guy who could make the spectacular catch ... uh, next year would be a good time to start makin' some.

[B]Antuan Randle-El, WR/KR[/B] - I was on board with this signing from the start. ARE is, IMO, the consumate team guy, and made some nice plays down the stretch. His biggest value to the team is in the return game, but he acquited himself nicely once we had to go to him more in the passing game.
He's not a true #2, but he's serviceable, and would be a really dangerous #3
(ala Ricky Sanders). And he's probably got the second best arm on the team, after JC. I think we see him more comfortable in the offense next year.

[B]Adam Archuletta, S[/B] - Can someone please explain to me how, after all of the alledged "hours of film study that he did with GW prior to signing here, we could so totally mis-use a player?? Here again, a players rep was well documented and known prior to coming here, and yet, when PP went down in the opener, we had no idea how to maximize AA's skills with our shemes and pkgs.??

But call me nuts, but I want to keep him here and make this work. And that task falls squarely on the broad, large shoulders of one Greg Williams. Haven't heard much out of Redskins Park from the coach's as to what they've taken from their review of last season's train wreck, and that's a good thing ... I prefer the quiet approach, for a change. GW needs to go back and take a cold, hard look at how the schemes were drawn up, how AA coould have been better utilized, how things could have been adjusted to allow AA, and others, to play to their respective strengths. A truely great coach accurately assesses his players' skills, and comes up with ways to get as much out of everyone as possible. When we were winning consistantly back in the '80's, the one thing that was always a trademark of this team was how well the coaches made adjustments to fit the personel available.

If I left anyone out, sorry ... it's early and I've gotta' get to work.

I remain optomistic that we will get this thing turned around, and we will be a solid, play-off caliber team in short order. Watching JC play last season, and with the skills he brings to the position, has to excite anybody who saw him play ... the kid has "onions"! A healthy CP, a more confident LB, a determined RC, a solid (and hopefully healthy) OL, and a re-dedicated WR corp, and this offense could be fun to watch. And the defense will rebound, because I believe that they were embarrassed last year, and now somebody's gonna' pay!!

Hail !!

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=skinsfan69;277260]Are you serious? The FA way does not work. It never works. But I guess even some of the fans are buying into it.[/quote]

Several points:
Yes, I'm serious
Because they have not had the intended success they wanted yet, does not mean they won't.
I don't believe I suggested the FA works or does not. FA is DEFINATELY a useful tool.
I do think I made a call for more conservative choices.
Basically, I just stated, I like the excitement generated by the whole thing.
I'm not sure what you think I am "buying" in to?.............Do you?

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=Hog1;277308]Several points:
Yes, I'm serious
Because they have not had the intended success they wanted yet, does not mean they won't.
I don't believe I suggested the FA works or does not. FA is DEFINATELY a useful tool.
I do think I made a call for more conservative choices.
Basically, I just stated, I like the excitement generated by the whole thing.
I'm not sure what you think I am "buying" in to?.............Do you?[/quote]

I just hope it's ALOT more conservative. It's not useful the way we do it. Overpay for guys who don't deserve to be paid and let what we call core guys play elsewhere.

But what pisses me off most is when March 1st hits a plane will be sent to Buff. and a big signing bonus will be offered to Nate C. And while we are there we are going to pick up Fletcher too. Meanwhile Dock is sitting on the outside and is not signed yet. Always chasing other teams players when one of our core guys is not signed yet. Sends are real bad message in the locker room.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=skinsfan69;277354]I just hope it's ALOT more conservative. It's not useful the way we do it. Overpay for guys who don't deserve to be paid and let what we call core guys play elsewhere.

But what pisses me off most is when March 1st hits a plane will be sent to Buff. and a big signing bonus will be offered to Nate C. And while we are there we are going to pick up Fletcher too. Meanwhile Dock is sitting on the outside and is not signed yet. Always chasing other teams players when one of our core guys is not signed yet. Sends are real bad message in the locker room.[/quote]

on the brighter side, anyone who's been here the last few years has already gotten that message loud and clear.... oh wait.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

So should the team just hold off on all free agents until Dockery is signed?

I'm sure negotiations will continue regardless of what we are doing in free agency. It's not a situation of since we are chasing free agents we can't also keep working on Dockery's deal.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;277260]Are you serious? The FA way does not work. It never works. But I guess even some of the fans are buying into it.[/QUOTE]

Are you serious? Of course free agency works. Dallas used it in their glory years, St. Louis, New England, Denver......all of these teams have won Super Bowls using free agents.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=skinsguy;277488]Are you serious? Of course free agency works. Dallas used it in their glory years, St. Louis, New England, Denver......all of these teams have won Super Bowls using free agents.[/quote] Dallas built its team with draft picks , Emmit , Irvin , Aikman , harper , johnson ,,, the d line < traded for Haley > the lb's and the DB's ,,, minus prime rib sanders . Not sure about the Rams , but the Pats were built through the draft , except for a few players like Harrison and dillon < won 2 SB's without dillon > . FA is a tool , but it will be very hard to win year in and out without strong drafts most years .

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

well, its about price/performance, and the draft is much better at that and allows many many more mistakes, since they're cheap. FA only works well when you don't make any big money mistakes.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

Skinsfan69 has a point that, rightly or wrongly, there is a perception in the Redskins locker room that the front office does not reward its home-grown players (e.g., Smoot and Pierce) and has a "the grass is greener on the other side" mentality. Losing Dockery would certainly contribute to that perception and frustrate many Redskins players and fans.

Where I differ with Skinsfan69 is when he says that "free agency does not work." EVERY team in the league uses free agency to build its roster. So, free agency can "work." Moreover, I wouldn't pin the Redskins losses all on free agent acquisitions for several reasons. One, some of our best players in recent memory have been free agents (e.g., Coles, Thomas, Griffin, Washington, Springs). Two, some of our biggest offseason busts have been draft picks (e.g., Ramsey, Jacobs, Arrington). Three, we had some poor coaching staffs (e.g., Spurrier). The list goes on and on. I agree that our free agent acquisitions haven't solved all of our problems, but they haven't created all of them either.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

Still, if you look at the big picture it is tough to idenfity a team since the 94 niners who built a championship team primarily through free agency. Moreover, there wasn't one succesful team this year that I can think of that employed the strategy. I think Washington this year was the big test case and it failed.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[quote=djnemo65;277607]Still, if you look at the big picture it is tough to idenfity a team since the 94 niners who built a championship team primarily through free agency. Moreover, there wasn't one succesful team this year that I can think of that employed the strategy. I think Washington this year was the big test case and it failed.[/quote]We didn't fail [I]because[/I] we signed free agents, we failed because we [I]stupidly[/I] signed free agents (and traded).

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

the saints signed a ton of new FAs this year and they worked out, though outside of brees, most were pretty cheap (stoutmire, etc). the browns signed a lot of FAs and it didn't affect their W/L record too much, but they had a serious talent deficiency going into the year.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=budw38;277591]Dallas built its team with draft picks , Emmit , Irvin , Aikman , harper , johnson ,,, the d line < traded for Haley > the lb's and the DB's ,,, minus prime rib sanders . Not sure about the Rams , but the Pats were built through the draft , except for a few players like Harrison and dillon < won 2 SB's without dillon > . FA is a tool , but it will be very hard to win year in and out without strong drafts most years .[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that built their teams soley on FA, but they did pick up some key players through FA, which means that to say FA never works would be an inaccurate statement.

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

here an idea; trade both betts and portis for JV and Bly then draft Adrian peterson lol

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[COLOR=black]I think a more accurate statement would be that FA works best when complimented by a solid draft strategy. In order to be successful you need to combine the two. If you solely focus on only one of these you will not be successful at least you won't consistently be successful. I just hope that our FO will someday soon come to understand this concept.[/COLOR]

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

no offense diehardredskin but that is just stupid everyone seems to forget that we had the 4th best run game and PORTIS MISSED HALF OF THE SEASON!!!!!! when they are both healthy for 16 games they will combine for at least 2300 yards on the ground 1500 from portis aqnd 800 from betts now that would be gibbs style football

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;277678]no offense diehardredskin but that is just stupid everyone seems to forget that we had the 4th best run game and PORTIS MISSED HALF OF THE SEASON!!!!!! when they are both healthy for 16 games they will combine for at least 2300 yards on the ground 1500 from portis aqnd 800 from betts now that would be gibbs style football[/QUOTE]

it sarcastic bud :)

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

yeah i got that man

Re: It's Time For The Skins' Super Bowl Starting With Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=Skinz4life;277677][COLOR=black]I think a more accurate statement would be that FA works best when complimented by a solid draft strategy. In order to be successful you need to combine the two. If you solely focus on only one of these you will not be successful at least you won't consistently be successful. I just hope that our FO will someday soon come to understand this concept.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Yes. Build your team with youthful, promising draft picks. Augment your team with free agents.

The Redskins do just the opposite.