Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

[quote=Beemnseven;283993]The problem is that we have depth-quality players in starting roles.

Don't kid yourself, this defensive line is atrocious. As someone else pointed out, 16 sacks -- by far the worst in the league -- and #27 against the run? Come on, what more proof do you need that these guys are old and ineffective? Griffin is probably OK as long as a young, pocket-collapsing renegade lines up next to him. But Salave'a might as well cash in his chips, the man can't hold up for 16 games anymore. Golston and Montgomery are long-term projects for #3 rotation spots at best. They aren't taking us anywhere.

Darrell Green in his prime, along with Champ, Smoot on his best day, and Rogers finally living up to his #9 overall billing won't matter one bit when the QB has all day to throw. Not to mention when those guys in the secondary are forced to make the tackle on a running play 10-15 yards past the line of scrimmage.

The defensive line is dreadful. Witness Tiki Barber's final performance at Fed Ex Field for proof positive of that.[/quote]



I guess for me the big thing is that a year ago most people felt that our d-line was solid and that the addition of carter would only make it better. Then with injuries in secondary we were forced to back our defense off the line and blitz less so teams were able to gash us with the running game and we werent able to generate as much of pass rush. Suddenly we have a terrible d-line with no one worth keeping. Has our line really aged that much in one year? Or maybe was it the broader circumstance of the whole defensive scheme having to shift to cover our vunerability in the secondary. If we dont try to add young depth secondary we will be in the same situation as soon as springs leaves. Plan for the future and draft a corner. Dropping down in the draft to get both seems ideal but if not i think corner is still a more pressing long term problem than our d-line.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;283994]Why do you think Branch will be the next Big Daddy?[/quote]

The big knock on him is he takes plays off and lack a high motor. He's huge though and takes up space, sounds like another Big Daddy to me.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

I really like our secondary now with Smoot coming home. Now I think we need to focus on the Dline and Oline we need more pics and can get a couple of good players later in the first round, second round, and possibly the third.

Will we get an extra draft pick for losing Dock to free agency this year or next? I would think it would be at the end of the third round. I like where we are going from here. I like the FO not going crazy.

I have another interesting question for you guys if we clear out some of the front office why not brimg Charlie Casserly back to Washington. He's not doing much right now.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

It's too late in the offseason to be thinking about a GM, we would have needed to make that move back in January.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

[QUOTE=Misterbillysells;284030]I guess for me the big thing is that a year ago most people felt that our d-line was solid and that the addition of carter would only make it better. Then with injuries in secondary we were forced to back our defense off the line and blitz less so teams were able to gash us with the running game and we werent able to generate as much of pass rush. Suddenly we have a terrible d-line with no one worth keeping. Has our line really aged that much in one year? Or maybe was it the broader circumstance of the whole defensive scheme having to shift to cover our vunerability in the secondary. If we dont try to add young depth secondary we will be in the same situation as soon as springs leaves. Plan for the future and draft a corner. Dropping down in the draft to get both seems ideal but if not i think corner is still a more pressing long term problem than our d-line.[/QUOTE]

Well, I didn't feel the D-line was solid last year. I didn't think it was solid in 2005 either, but it turned out to be enough. This franchise has feverishly avoided upgrading the defensive line for years. Kenard Lang was the last high pick at that position back in 1997 -- with a completely different front office. And nothing impressed me about Andre Carter -- he was a dud on a really bad San Fransisco team. I don't know what anyone should have expected from him.

The injuries you refer to was chiefly Shawn Springs. When he went down, we couldn't blitz because none of the other guys in the secondary couldn't hold things down on their own. When your entire pass rush hinges on a cornerback then you had big problems to begin with.

And yes, I do believe this line got old and bad in a hurry. That's not uncommon in this league. Neglecting to plant some seeds along the D-line was like setting the clock on a ticking time-bomb. And in 2006 that time- bomb went off. We couldn't stop anybody, and we couldn't get near the quarterback. Hell, we couldn't do that in 2004 or 2005 either, we had to blitz linebackers and safeties in order to do that! It was like lightening striking twice if one of our defensive lineman was able to sack the quarterback.

Some will say that Gregg Williams system is set up that way. Maybe so. But we saw what happens when the secondary can't cover anybody and the linebackers are forced to make the tackle 6 or 7 yards after the line of scrimmage. If you had any sort of pressure up front, your bad secondary could concentrate on staying with their receivers. Last year we had to lay off the blitz and there was ZERO pressure on the quarterback.

Result: #31 overall in defense. We can't count on Griffin, Salave'a, Golston and Montgomery for another year anymore than we could with another year of Mike Rumph, Kenny Wright, or Adam Archuleta. If we do nothing with the D-line, expect more bad defense for 2007.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

[quote=chrisl4064;283971]ummmm we did find another corner like darrel green, he was even better, his name was champ bailey. and like idiots we traded him away for a fan favorite (i hate that term) in portis. check out the signature below.[/quote]
Dude you have no idea.. Bailey is not better than DG. Maybe cuz you only saw a short part of DGs career There is a big gap between the 2 and DG is better.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

okoye hes the answer he's a beast at the tender age of 19 hes only going to get bigger and better trade down or pick him...

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

yeah, kinda thinking okoye might be the safer pick at DT than branch. I would like to see how many 225 reps adams does though, since there are a lot of concerns with his weight.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

Guys like Branch (massive DTs) ALWAYS see their stock tank. That shouldn't surprise anyone. The point is that guys like him are rare and can only be found in the quantity of approx. one per draft. Guys like Anderson and Adams--theres going to be pass rushing ends available in the draft next year and every year after that.

Branch and Okoye both have unique qualities about them (Branch=size, Okoye=age). If we pass on them, we won't necessarily have a chance to get a player like them in the future. We can get an end in 2008 most likely, maybe even one who is bigger and better for our system than the guys available now.

Draft stock means everything for the next 2 months, but nothing come May. Keep that in mind.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

[quote=Crat92;284019]Good people that's all well and good, but how does that translate to the NFL? How good was he against competition? What did the Buckeyes do against that no.1 rated rush D? [B]The Chris Wells run alone was longer than their per game average![/B] People there are no Northwesterns or Indianas in the NFL. All I'm sayin is the guy is okay.[/quote]I think you are failing to grasp the concept of an average. Long runs happen to everybody. Giving up a lot of long runs only makes a low YPC or YPG average even more impressive.

The whole season of data is infinately more valuble than one game.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

[quote=GTripp0012;284183]Guys like Branch (massive DTs) ALWAYS see their stock tank. That shouldn't surprise anyone. The point is that guys like him are rare and can only be found in the quantity of approx. one per draft. Guys like Anderson and Adams--theres going to be pass rushing ends available in the draft next year and every year after that.

Branch and Okoye both have unique qualities about them (Branch=size, Okoye=age). If we pass on them, we won't necessarily have a chance to get a player like them in the future. We can get an end in 2008 most likely, maybe even one who is bigger and better for our system than the guys available now.

Draft stock means everything for the next 2 months, but nothing come May. Keep that in mind.[/quote]

DTs tend to be around the 10-15 range, so yes, they will be there every year (though the true 3-4 NT types come slightly less than once a year). this is an especially weak class, which might actually boost their stock. almost every position comes out every year, and ngata (who came out last year) was/is a much better player than branch (imo).

I agree though that while the DEs are deep this year, none of them are extremely unique from the yearly rotation, but saying we can't get a DT if we don't get one now is wrong though. every year these guys get hyped up as the best ever, and every year there's free agency.

branch is a bit unique, but the most unique and hardest to find guy in this class is CJ by far. that's about it. branch has knocks for being lazy, and having almost no pass rushing skills. he is good at what he does though and can play as a run stopping DE too if needed.

btw, even though branch tries to compare himself to richard seymour, he's probably closer to a shaun rogers or henderson in what he does.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;283990]Branch seems like the next Big Daddy to me.

There's alot of depth along the defensive line in this draft, I'm hoping we can trade down, get more picks, and still fill needs.[/QUOTE]

My problem with Branch is simple. He isn't a pressure guy. He is a block eater and run stuffer. Those guys are far easier to find(and cheaper too) than a good or better pass rusher. There are only several big time DTs in the league and really not a one of them is big time for being a run stopper. I am not minimizing what a run stopper does but looking at which position offers more scarcity; pass rushing DE wins by a big margin. The question becomes: Are either Adams or Anderson good enough DEs to be a better value pick than the more surefire Branch? I am not good enough of an evaluator to know.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;284183]Guys like Branch (massive DTs) ALWAYS see their stock tank. That shouldn't surprise anyone. The point is that guys like him are rare and can only be found in the quantity of approx. one per draft. Guys like Anderson and Adams--theres going to be pass rushing ends available in the draft next year and every year after that.

Branch and Okoye both have unique qualities about them (Branch=size, Okoye=age). If we pass on them, we won't necessarily have a chance to get a player like them in the future. We can get an end in 2008 most likely, maybe even one who is bigger and better for our system than the guys available now.

Draft stock means everything for the next 2 months, but nothing come May. Keep that in mind.[/QUOTE]

See I'd totally disagree. Quality run stopping DTs are far more prevalent in the league than quality pass rushing DEs. Sure there are lots of highly ranked pass rushers every year but how many pan out? As far as DTs there are just more of them. Hell even Joey Sal was a monster for us if only for a year. His age and health have betrayed him some and now he is just average or worse.

To me it comes down to whether Adams or Anderson is the real deal. If one is then we have to take him if we can. Branch will be good but we can find another more easily.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

okoye is a much better all around DT (can pressure, athletic to get to the ball carrier etc) and may actually be the better pick at DT.

for a DE, i'd really like to see tape on anderson... he's got the size and stats, but not a long track record.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;284063]Dude you have no idea.. Bailey is not better than DG. Maybe cuz you only saw a short part of DGs career There is a big gap between the 2 and DG is better.[/quote]


Thank you. Darrell Green was the BEST, ABSOLUTE BEST corner in the game for close to 15 years. He slowed a bit the last 2 or 3 years, and the first year he had to develop. Even with screws in his ankles, he was the NFL's Fastest Man for 5 straight years. Thank you for clearifying my point. Oh, BTW lets see if Champ Bailey can run a 4.25 40 when he's 41. If he can last that long, that is. Learn your stuff and quit posting trash [B]chrisl4064[/B]. Bashing Darrell Green is like a one legged man, in an ass kicking contest. Better find a prosthetic leg.

Re: The Return Of Cb Stability
 

I agree with you giantssuck703, we have to get more youth on that d-line. A good d-line can make an average corner look good. Also with the new rules for d-backs it makes it more difficult for a d-back to cover a receiver, with that said d-line help is crucial to a defensive backfields success. You can get all of the db's you want, if your line doesnt get pressure, the scoreboard operator is going to be very busy.