Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

We will find out this year . The team had an off year , we learned a new offence and the Qb's had to work out timing with the wr's . With that said , Moss got open and made big plays ? I think that Loyd is one dimensional , he has good top speed , but I do not see explosiveness from him . I believe that many teams know they can put a fast corner on him , Loyd will not beat him on slants , comebacks , nor does Loyd seem to run double move that well . Hopefully we run the ball very well this year and can get him on a safety more often so he will be more productive . Any receiver can get deep a few times a year , maybe he has a breakout season ,,,,, lets hope !

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

If Brandon Lloyd is all that good and all that talented and all that important to a team, why did the 49ers actively go and trade him when he had time left on his contract? Surely, they were not overloaded with great talent at WR...

Brandon Lloyd cost the Skins two draft picks and then the geniuses in the FO here gave him a $10M signing bonus. That wasn't his fault; the FO did that. However, that gives Brandon Lloyd a standard to be measured against. He didn't ask for it; but that's the way life goes.

Against the standard set here in DC, he's a bust.

And as far as the 49ers staff is concerned, he wasn't worth keeping around.

Anyone here is free to pick a set of adjectives and adverbs to describe Brandon Lloyd. Until I see a whole lot more success on the field next year, I'd say he was over-rated, over-paid and marginally useful.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

I THINK we are married to this guy for at least one more year??

But his performance up to this point has been all but NULL AND VOID!

I personally would love to see this guy get a one way ticket outta DC.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

he stinks unfortually we are stuck with him. Its bad enough we had to give up a 3 n a 4th round picks. Is that the guy still had year left on his contract and we torn and gave him a 10 million signing bonus. Should have let lloyd prove he could play first. Thats why bly want to come here he know we will tear up his contract and give him a big bonus.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

Was Lloyd due to be a free agent at the end of the 2006 season? Or the 2007 season?

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[quote=SBXVII;284254]I'll say it was awsome but with todays standards thats not a catch.
1. did he have control before his feet slid out of bounds?
2. this is the big one: if you look closely when he lands the ball moves/bounces when it hits the ground between his forearms. I belive this would be ruled no catch.
I know this seems like I'm being picky but I'm not. I do belive he had a great catch at the beginning of our season as well. but one catch does not make a great player. Hopefully this year with Jason at the helm and everyone knowing Saunders offense better the ball will be spread around better.[/quote]

true but that was a good catch and i think he will rebound this year

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

B Lloyd will be straight this year. He can now concentrate on building timing, and chemistry with JC. He'll get his chance to make plays down field. Especially with the ROCKET Campbell has! As for me I think the jury is still out on this one.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[quote=wbecker999;284257]1. Thats a catch
2. The link was just to show he has some sick skills. Isn't it common sense that one catch doesn't make a player great?[/quote]

Thats his signature catch, does that mean hes a sure fire hall of famer now?

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

at the end of this last season

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;284728]at the end of this last season[/QUOTE]

What?

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

his contract was up after this season when we traded for him. Like your icon,

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;284732]his contract was up after this season when we traded for him. Like your icon,[/QUOTE]

Thanks. So help me understand something here. Why is it not ok to try to lock in Lloyd, a young receiver who has shown promise in this league (Granted I understand he had a disappointing 2006), but we should have locked in Dockery?

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

i think it more important to keep a good oline together like the hogs in the 80's. If you a good oline you can control the line of scrimmage like we did at the end of last year. I would have made lloyd play the last year out of his contact to see what he had. He had some problems in SF and we found out here he had some too with GIbbs. If lloyd would have produced and had a big year sure sign him to a good contract, maybe if we didnt give him 10 million right away he might have been hungry for a new contract. Instead of being fat and happy. Also dock bled for this team for 3 yrs before lloyd came here and got the big bucks without playing a down for us.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

dont blame lloyd he didnt make the skins pay him it just as of right now its a mistake like AA and carter and randel el that we paying for right now. But hey maybe next hopefully they will prove me wrong. Trust me that what i want im tired of losing.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;284746]i think it more important to keep a good oline together like the hogs in the 80's. If you a good oline you can control the line of scrimmage like we did at the end of last year. I would have made lloyd play the last year out of his contact to see what he had. He had some problems in SF and we found out here he had some too with GIbbs. If lloyd would have produced and had a big year sure sign him to a good contract, maybe if we didnt give him 10 million right away he might have been hungry for a new contract. Instead of being fat and happy. Also dock bled for this team for 3 yrs before lloyd came here and got the big bucks without playing a down for us.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

I just would like to take care of our first that all. I would extent their contracts when they have a year left. I think it would be cheaper in the long run. Like philly does with their young talent. And keep our draft picks please lol.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=wbecker999;284277]My original thread should have stated

Brandon Lloyd is not a bust! [COLOR="Magenta"]YET[/COLOR]

All I'm saying is give him a chance with a good system and quarterback before we call him a bust.[/QUOTE]Any receiver in the NFL would be successful given a good QB and a good system. However, if there was any exception to this rule, it would be Lloyd.

I think whether or not he is a bust is a pretty irrelivant argument. He's just not very good. He's servicable in the way that he can run, jump, and catch (sometimes acrobatically), so he'd probably put up yards in a great situaiton. That doesn't make him good though.

He's been very inconsistent for 4 seasons now, so either we keep waiting for him to break out, or we get the ball to players more likely to do something with them instead of sacrificing offensive potential in a attempt to ressurect the otherwise hopeless career of a scrub WR.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;284751]I just would like to take care of our first that all. I would extent their contracts when they have a year left. I think it would be cheaper in the long run. Like philly does with their young talent. And keep our draft picks please lol.[/QUOTE]

I think we have been for the most part-Betts, Jansen, Thomas, Sellers. But it's also up to the player to want to stay and you have to think of what's best for the entire team. For the money Dock was asking for, it just didn't make sense to keep him. Loyalty is one thing, but at what price?

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

Not saying break the bank on anyone but if the redskins only offered 3 for 12 with no signing bonus as the post said yesterday that a joke.I think if the skins would have offered something like they paid lloyd or AA with a 1o million bonus it would have been a good deal for both sides. he was our youngest olineman never missed a game. And with Jansen on the downside and the lineman getting around or over 30 we need young good lineman. Unfortually we wont be able to that in the draft.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;284751]I just would like to take care of our first that all. I would extent their contracts when they have a year left. I think it would be cheaper in the long run. Like philly does with their young talent. And keep our draft picks please lol.[/QUOTE]I and I'm sure many others on this board are behind you here. It's beating a dead horse though.

Our front office has been relatively good with the moves they've made in the sense that we really dont make many more misakes than most teams do. The problem is that the nature of our business forces us to invest a ton of guarenteed money in our players. So when we do make our mistakes, they are very, very costly to us.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

That really kills our flexability. FA should be use to fill a hole here or there. We need to use the draft instead of throwing away picks like on duckett. That was a killer trade there.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

What kills me i know Daniel Synder is a very smart man. Especially in business, you would think he would see how the other succesfull teams are being run and try to the same. Use the draft,GM etc. Instead of just mainly using FA. Believe me i was so jacked when he got the skins. Thinking damn we have a young JKC here. Love what he did his first year when we had the Playoff game in TB and getting flights down there so we could get as many fans as we could down there.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;284761]What kills me i know Daniel Synder is a very smart man. Especially in business, you would think he would see how the other succesfull teams are being run and try to the same. Use the draft,GM etc. Instead of just mainly using FA.[/QUOTE]

But a lot of teams don't have GMs. He uses the draft more than given credit for, and we're not the only team going after FAs

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

Yea but i think Vinny has to go he stunk in SF. Was good at ND. Yea but we seen to always to go crazy after we make the Playoffs like in 2000 and last year. Signing way to many FA or paying them way to much. Instead with a tweak here or there we would be ready to roll. But we lose our minds sometimes. The good teams like indy,chi,phil use the draft and fill in with FA. Not the other way around.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

I think 2000 and last offseason don't really compare. 2000 was clearly a quick fix, looking for that instant ring. Archuleta turned out to be a mistake, and the Duckett deal completely backfired. But I think AC, El, and even Lloyd can be mainstays here for many years to come.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

I'm sorry, but I don't think the Redskins' offer to Dock was ridiculous. Let's face it, we all liked Dockery, but he was the 5th best lineman on the team and is a slightly-above average guard with some [I]unrealized[/I] potential to be well-above average. Prior to this offseason, most great guards could be had for $4M per year with a signing bonus of about $1M for every contract year. Hutchinson is, of course, the exception to this rule, but Dockery is no Hutchinson and Hutchinson's contract shocked the hell out of everyone even though he was and is regarded as the best overall guard in the league.

If people have a problem with Dock's contract numbers, go look at other guards' contracts prior to this offseason and you will be SHOCKED at how little guards were paid.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;284765]I'm sorry, but I don't think the Redskins' offer to Dock was ridiculous. Let's face it, we all liked Dockery, but he was the 5th best lineman on the team and is a slightly-above average guard with some [I]unrealized[/I] potential to be well-above average. Prior to this offseason, most great guards could be had for $4M per year with a signing bonus of about $1M for every contract year. Hutchinson is, of course, the exception to this rule, but Dockery is no Hutchinson and Hutchinson's contract shocked the hell out of everyone even though he was and is regarded as the best overall guard in the league.

If people have a problem with Dock's contract numbers, go look at other guards' contracts prior to this offseason and you will be SHOCKED at how little guards were paid.[/QUOTE]

How pissed must Seattle fans be now that Hutch's deal is the norm? Last year they could at least console themselves with "Well, who would pay that kind of money for a guard anyway"

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[quote=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;284763]Yea but i think Vinny has to go he stunk in SF. Was good at ND. Yea but we seen to always to go crazy after we make the Playoffs like in 2000 and last year. Signing way to many FA or paying them way to much. Instead with a tweak here or there we would be ready to roll. But we lose our minds sometimes. The good teams like indy,chi,phil use the draft and fill in with FA. Not the other way around.[/quote]

He won a Super Bowl in San Fran

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;284795]He won a Super Bowl in San Fran[/quote]

Well.........................there's that

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;284766]How pissed must Seattle fans be now that Hutch's deal is the norm? Last year they could at least console themselves with "Well, who would pay that kind of money for a guard anyway"[/quote]

And next year after free agency ,we will be sitting hear thinking Doc's and these other deals where not that expensive after all.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=redskin37;284815]And next year after free agency ,we will be sitting hear thinking Doc's and these other deals where not that expensive after all.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, that is unless the salary cap doubles overnight.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

(SCENE: B. Llyod has just missed a potential touchdown catch against the Saints)

Al Saunders: Looks like you lost it in the lights

Lloyd: What?

Al Saunders: Looks like you lost it in the lights

Lloyd: I didnt' F*$*#G loose it, go talk to your F$*#(G Quarterback.

NOTE: this script is paraphrased

This is the type of shit Lloyd tries to pull with his crappy attitude. Saunders tried to give him a don't worry about it pat on the back when the play was clearly his fault and Lloyd tries to blame it on the Campbell.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;285252](SCENE: B. Llyod has just missed a potential touchdown catch against the Saints)

Al Saunders: Looks like you lost it in the lights

Lloyd: What?

Al Saunders: Looks like you lost it in the lights

Lloyd: I didnt' F*$*#G loose it, go talk to your F$*#(G Quarterback.

NOTE: this script is paraphrased

This is the type of shit Lloyd tries to pull with his crappy attitude. Saunders tried to give him a don't worry about it pat on the back when the play was clearly his fault and Lloyd tries to blame it on the Campbell.[/QUOTE]

Wow thats not good.
where did you get this info?

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[quote=wbecker999;285311]Wow thats not good.
where did you get this info?[/quote]

washingtonpost.com and post game. he also had sideline spats with randle-el. this isn't new info.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;285252](SCENE: B. Llyod has just missed a potential touchdown catch against the Saints)

Al Saunders: Looks like you lost it in the lights

Lloyd: What?

Al Saunders: Looks like you lost it in the lights

Lloyd: I didnt' F*$*#G loose it, go talk to your F$*#(G Quarterback.

NOTE: this script is paraphrased

This is the type of shit Lloyd tries to pull with his crappy attitude. Saunders tried to give him a don't worry about it pat on the back when the play was clearly his fault and Lloyd tries to blame it on the Campbell.[/QUOTE]

I remember that game .That was Lloyds fault all the way. Nobybody's perfect
I'll cut him some slack for not making the catch , But own up to your mistakes.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=wbecker999;285319]I remember that game .That was Lloyds fault all the way. Nobybody's perfect
I'll cut him some slack for not making the catch , [B]But own up to your mistakes[/B].[/QUOTE]

Apparently Lloyd doesn't. As stated by ThatGuy, this is not new info. Perhaps this is why people were skeptical about your "not a bust" opinion from the beginning. Maybe next time before you go jumping down people's throats for disagreeing with you, you'll cut em some slack before calling them out.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;285324]Apparently Lloyd doesn't. As stated by ThatGuy, this is not new info. Perhaps this is why people were skeptical about your "not a bust" opinion from the beginning. Maybe next time before you go jumping down people's throats for disagreeing with you, you'll cut em some slack before calling them out.[/QUOTE]

Hey -When I jumped down peoples throats
The only rebuttal I was getting was along the lines of
"one catch doesn't define a career" [COLOR="Red"]witch was not implied in my message [/COLOR]anyway.
Can anyone see how that was frustrating?

I apologize for offending anyone
I was trying to raise the level of this debate.

As for the topic it got peoples attention and turned out to have some pretty good arguments on each side.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;285324]Apparently Lloyd doesn't. As stated by ThatGuy, this is not new info. Perhaps this is why people were skeptical about your "not a bust" opinion from the beginning. Maybe next time before you go jumping down people's throats for disagreeing with you, you'll cut em some slack before calling them out.[/QUOTE]

When I jumped down peoples throats
The only rebuttal I was getting was along the lines of
"one catch doesn't define a career" [COLOR="Red"]witch was not implied in my message [/COLOR]anyway.
Can anyone see how that was frustrating?

I apologize for offending anyone
I was trying to raise the level of this debate.

As for the topic it got peoples attention and turned out to have some pretty good arguments on each side.

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[QUOTE=wbecker999;285510]When I jumped down peoples throats
The only rebuttal I was getting was along the lines of
"one catch doesn't define a career" [COLOR="Red"]witch was not implied in my message [/COLOR]anyway.
Can anyone see how that was frustrating?

I apologize for offending anyone
I was trying to raise the level of this debate.

As for the topic it got peoples attention and turned out to have some pretty good arguments on each side.[/QUOTE]

No problem. Just as a suggestion though, before venting frustration by jumping down people's throats, try to make sure that they understand your point and vice versa. That Guy's take on your original statement was certainly reasonable given prior debate by the board ON THIS VERY SUBJECT. In general, people here are pretty open to discussion and the type of misunderstanding involved here can be resolved without the need to get bent out of shape.

Unless, of course, offiss is involved in the debate. : )

Re: Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!
 

[quote=wbecker999;285510]When I jumped down peoples throats
The only rebuttal I was getting was along the lines of
"one catch doesn't define a career" [COLOR=Red]witch was not implied in my message [/COLOR]anyway.
Can anyone see how that was frustrating?

I apologize for offending anyone
I was trying to raise the level of this debate.

As for the topic it got peoples attention and turned out to have some pretty good arguments on each side.[/quote]

that's a lie and compeltely untrue. you called me out for "not having any insight" (which you have yet to provide), and YOU made up that retarded argument so YOU could use it as a straw man. (i said one good catch doesn't cancel the fact that he goes mia for entire games at a time. if you can't see how warped you're making that, you really need to go back and try to read more carefully or get some help). it's total BS that you keep trying to put those words in my mouth when i NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE THAT. then you only use that one BS argument which YOU MADE UP AND EXISTS ONLY IN YOUR HEAD and ignore all the other points that were brought up.

that's doing nothing to raise the level of debate... in fact, you've pretty much refused to debate anything since i have yet to see a response to any of the points that have been mentioned or anything insightful that could possibly prove he's not a bust. if anything, you've been actively trying to avoid or lower the level of debate. oh yeah, and then you play off some stupid victim routine.

That's frustrating.

*worst stats for any starting WR in the super bowl era - no response.

*his ypc is NOT NEAR the best in the league like you said - no response.

*he's made multiple spats on the sidelines, a bad history in SF, and andre carter (when asked about lloyd's character) basically said "no comment" - you're only response is to cut him some slack, even though he's shown no improvement and refuses to accept blame for anything that goes wrong (and even said he sees absolutely no reason to ever change that kind of attitude).

*he's never had a 1,000 yard season, and the 49ers definitely didn't think he was worth keeping around at the vet min - no response

*goes mia for games - your response - what's backing that up - my response - look at the stats and box scores, it's pretty obvious, or watch the games.
"Like you went to a game and watched him and never got separation."
- like you went and saw him open by 20 yards every play.
that's another bullshit strawman and an amazing appearance of the "i'm right cause i said so" argument yet again. but that's useless cause there's no proof at all for what your saying or anything that rebuffs those stats. moss and cooley and even el produced just fine, so what?, was lloyd the victim of a vast right wing conspiracy? it makes no sense - he was even on the field for more snaps than el as a WR.

*plenty of good WRs put up stats with crappy QBs (in response to your "well, it's campbell's fault for not being peyton argument). check joe horn, check randy moss, check boldin and fitzgerald, check torry holt with a 3rd string QB, and i'm sure there's tons of other examples. - no response

if you're going "to raise the level of debate" how about responding to criticism of your position instead of shadowboxing strawmen and playing the victim?

i'm still waiting for that "insightful" reply.