Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;287611]I must be the only one left (beside Lloyd's mama) who thinks Lloyd still has upside and potential. I wouldn't give up on him just yet[/QUOTE]

You're not alone.

Count me in the 5% of Warpathers who don't hate this guy.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;287611]I must be the only one left (beside Lloyd's mama) who thinks Lloyd still has upside and potential. I wouldn't give up on him just yet[/QUOTE]

I'm with you, I like Lloyd and Patten. I like the receiving corps, I don't see the need to unload either of those guys. I think Lloyd needs an attitude adjustment, but he can play this game. He just needs to stop acting like such a prick when the team is playing poorly. As for Patten, the guy isn't bad. He wasn't bad for the Pats, I think the problem is over here, not with him. I don't think he was the answer at #2, but when you can put him in at #4, then you're doing pretty well. James Thrash is useful because he's a serviceable receiver and can play teams. The Skins need to worry about other positions than releasing receivers so that they can go get others to take their place.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;287613]we are not going to replace lloyd just yet invested to much in him and all those guys will be much better next year and recievers who can play special teams would be all right i guess but jimoh sellers and khary campbell are great special team players[/quote]Well, given Lloyd v Patten, you have two backups who don't play special teams. By virtue of age, I guess I'd keep Lloyd of the two, but it's really hurting us to be tying up two roster spots with crappy WRs who don't run down on teams and hit anyone.

You only keep 46 players active which means theres only 19 non specialist (K, P, QB, LS) backups active every week. If those 19, there needs to be 11 on kickoff cover teams, 10 on punt, punt return, and kick return teams, and 9 on FG/PAT. Last year we had starting safeties running down covering kicks (It ended Prioleau's season) because we can't get a damn receiver who doesn't play much offense to do it. That's a problem.

We need to fix this problem. I think Patten will be gone, and I'm not so sure about Lloyd, but if we have the cap space, I'd advocate his departure also.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;287611]I must be the only one left (beside Lloyd's mama) who thinks Lloyd still has upside and potential. I wouldn't give up on him just yet[/quote]


nah i still love brandon lloyd

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

I think with El, Thrash, and Espy you'd have three receivers who play teams. Then the remaining receivers would be Moss and Lloyd. Three out of five WRs who play teams ain't bad.

I like Patten, but I'd let him go. Injuries and age are not playing in his favor.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;287611]I must be the only one left (beside Lloyd's mama) who thinks Lloyd still has upside and potential. I wouldn't give up on him just yet[/quote]Well, he's still young, which is his advantage over Patten. I'm just not one to believe that the ability to block, run good routes, go fearlessly over the middle, and be a good special teams player can be developed at age 26.

I [U]DO[/U] believe that his attitude problems will improve with age. But even if they do, and he becomes an outstanding person/citizen, you are still left with a below average NFL receiver.

I'm worried that my predjudices with the idiotic trade that brought him here may be affecting my perception of Lloyd the receiver, but I just can't see him improving to the point where he deserves a roster spot.

Archuleta's only issue is health. Lloyd's best case scenario is a glorified third wideout. If I'm going to hope for one guy to free up cap space for the future, why wouldn't it be Lloyd?

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;287624]I think with El, Thrash, and Espy you'd have three receivers who play teams. Then the remaining receivers would be Moss and Lloyd. Three out of five WRs who play teams ain't bad.

I like Patten, but I'd let him go. Injuries and age are not playing in his favor.[/quote]I would say to deserve a roster spot, a receiver who isn't starting must be able to play teams. At least, if I was building a roster, I'd take the player who could play teams over a slightly better WR would couldn't.

3/5 isn't horrible, and I wouldn't bet the farm that the 5th guy would be Espy.

But by virtue of age and contract, Patten probably has to go. I thought he was a great signing when we brought him in, but things just didn't work out.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;287609]

Archuleta simply has to prove to me that he can still tackle. If he comes back next year and starts popping some heads, we don't have a better second safety option on this team. Worst case scenario, give the job to Prioleau and have an experienced backup.

.[/QUOTE]

The problem with AA as I remember it was not tackling. He was actually leading the team in tackles at the time of his demotion. Maybe he wasn't showing up regularily on you got jacked up but he was bringing guys down.

The problem was coverage. Not only could he not cover any TE's, but receivers routinely blew by him in the cover 2 set, where the safety's job is basically to not let anyone get behind him. That's why he got demoted. You can argue that the team wasn't using him right, and that's probably true, but it was his ability to zone cover in the cover 2 that was chiefly responsible for his removal from the starting lineup.

At least that's how I remember it.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=djnemo65;287635]The problem with AA as I remember it was not tackling. He was actually leading the team in tackles at the time of his demotion. Maybe he wasn't showing up regularily on you got jacked up but he was bringing guys down.

The problem was coverage. Not only could he not cover any TE's, but receivers routinely blew by him in the cover 2 set, where the safety's job is basically to not let anyone get behind him. That's why he got demoted. You can argue that the team wasn't using him right, and that's probably true, but it was his ability to zone cover in the cover 2 that was chiefly responsible for his removal from the starting lineup.

At least that's how I remember it.[/quote]Either way, it seems to be a product of an undisclosed injury. It will come together if he's healthy. If he's never going to be healthy again, thats a different story.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;287643]Either way, it seems to be a product of an undisclosed injury. It will come together if he's healthy. If he's never going to be healthy again, thats a different story.[/QUOTE]

So does that mean that we signed this guy before making sure he was 100% healthy? If we gave him that contract without knowing if he was healthy or not would make our FO look bad (Not like it hasn't already).

I hope its simply because he doesn't fit the scheme.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

This dude is gettin burnt by FB's and Blocking TE's. Good riddens. We should dump the chump and draft Landry, or tell Fox To crap or get off the pot. We know Fox is crazy fast, and hes a hammer. We dont need AA. Doesnt he always look like he just got finished crying? His eyes all red.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=Redskins_P;287645]So does that mean that we signed this guy before making sure he was 100% healthy? If we gave him that contract without knowing if he was healthy or not would make our FO look bad (Not like it hasn't already).

I hope its simply because he doesn't fit the scheme.[/quote]Schemes can help hide weaknesses and promote strengths, but it wont turn a top 10 safety into a worthless player. An injury can.

Many league figures believe that Arch was banged up pretty bad at the conclusion of 2005, so I'm guessing our medical staff ran a physical on him, but didn't find what was so wrong with his back that it hurt his ability to run and tackle.

The Fins made a similar mistake with Culpepper, but the differerence was that they didn't invest the house into that one.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=djnemo65;287635]The problem with AA as I remember it was not tackling. He was actually leading the team in tackles at the time of his demotion. Maybe he wasn't showing up regularily on you got jacked up but he was bringing guys down.

The problem was coverage. Not only could he not cover any TE's, but receivers routinely blew by him in the cover 2 set, where the safety's job is basically to not let anyone get behind him. That's why he got demoted. You can argue that the team wasn't using him right, and that's probably true, but it was his ability to zone cover in the cover 2 that was chiefly responsible for his removal from the starting lineup.

At least that's how I remember it.[/quote]Additionally, since the biggest problem with the team was tackling, if he WAS leading the team in tackles at the time of his benching, then we made a big mistake by benching him. Let's face it, we didn't exactly get a great cover guy in Fox to replace him, in fact our pass D got even worse.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

when is david patten due hus bonis?theu have to cut him!

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=offiss;287567]AA want's out just as bad as we want him out, that is why they have an agreement to extend his bonus, I would be fairly sure that he is willing to kick back money if it lands him with the right team, he knows he's going to get a big check regardless, I just think he was so humilited last season that he has something to prove and knows he can't do it in Williams system, he knows his strengths and weakness's and wasen't used to his strength and from what I can remember he flat out called us liers about the condition of how he would be used when he signed. I think something will get done I just don't think he will bring back anything but some cap relief.[/quote]

Offiss, you make so much sense. A large part of this thread has been spent around the notion that Archuleta sucked, which he did, as did the WHOLE DEFENSE! However, I think the defensive coaches (starting with G. Williams) needs to be held accountable, too.

I remember reading that some scouts around the league were surprised we even picked up Archuleta (and then puzzled at the way we utilized him). As Offiss pointed out, Archuleta seemed to have been lied to in how he was or would be used. It was very clear around the league that Archuleta is a great safety when used in "run support" and NOT in "pass" defense.

One thing I've always taken and remembered from John Madden that he said back in the late 80s (or perhaps 90s) was that (paraphrasing) "[I]...a good coach always finds a way to utilize the talent that he has[/I]". A new coach, for example, can't come to his new team and institute a run and shoot offense when the personnel on the team are more structured around a smash mouth running style of team. He just doesn't have the wide receiver talent and conditioning to go pass, pass, pass. So, I say all this to say that I think Gregg Williams either misjudged Archuleta's talents in the pass defense or Williams simply forced something that just wasn't going to work. So again, I think accountability needs to be looked at by the defensive coaches as well.

Also, those (alleged) reports from [I]The Washington Post [/I]about Steve Jackson moping on the sidelines during games because the secondary (safeties) was struggling, and then him and Jerry Gray having different meetings and philosophies with regard to defensive secondary strategies going on didn't help the matter either with the players on the field during game days.

This also points to the fact that Gregg Williams publicly said that (paraphrasing) "... [I]NOW that Jerry Gray is here [/I](since secondary coach Dwayne Smith moved on)[I], we can employ even more packages because Jerry knows what I expect since we worked together back in Buffalo[/I]".

Those statements by Williams would suggest that he is very [B]comfortable[/B] with Jerry Gray, and [B]IF[/B] Steve Jackson is not getting the job done then perhaps Jerry Gray should be running the whole show in regard to the secondary; in an event like that, there would only be one consistent voice back there with no conflicting stuff being said to the players.

Some fans including myself were surprised that Steve Jackson wasn't also dismissed (again, based upon [I]The Washington Post [/I]article)when Kirk Olivadotti was let go. Though I am under no illusion that it was Olivadotti's fault that the defense didn't play well, it was collectively all the defensive players and coaches that failed last season.

Anyway, that's my 200-cents!

[B]ROD[/B]

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;287611]I must be the only one left (beside Lloyd's mama) who thinks Lloyd still has upside and potential. I wouldn't give up on him just yet[/quote]

I think Lloyd isn't all bad. He was hurt by rubber arm MB most of the season. He's a deep threat who never got deep balls. When I watched most of our big runs Lloyd was throwing great blocks down field. He got some bad PR towards the end of the season when he was wide open for a TD and Campbell missed him. We actually were not eliminated from Playoffs until then........

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

I don't think Lloyd is as bad as everyone wants to make him appear to be, sure he could be better, but he isn't real bad. He helped us beat the Jaguars, and almost won us the game against the Titans, untill Brunell did his nice throw into quad coverage on Moss.


I was listening to ESPN radio the other day, and they said they already made a deal to get rid of Archuletas 5million in bonuses, so all we'll have now is a 9 million cap hurt.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

i think we're going to trade aa and get either landry or merriweather in the draft.we seem to like players from the U.so merriweather would work.
HAIL SKINS 4 LIFE!!! oh yea dont count out us getting bly just yet.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

If we wanted Bly, didnt we have to trade Portis?

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

na adam archuletta for bly would be good.besides they got henry now.archy's an ass anyway. i went to trainin camp last year and a fan told him he was there to get archys autograph and archy said the fan was lucky that he even came over there to sign.archy must have forgot the fans overpay his sorry ass!!!!!!

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

trading arch for bly? trading portis for bly? taking a safety at #6?

what alternate reality did i just walk into :/.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

i didnt say take a safety with the 6th pick.trade the 6the pick and springs for more picks.take a safety with one pick,a dt with another cause salevea sucks, and take a de with another pick charles johnson is good!

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

Why would we draft a safety? We already have like 5....

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

yea and all but taylor and fox suck.plus we like U players

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[QUOTE=rvd420;288247]yea and all but taylor and fox suck.plus we like U players[/QUOTE]

Ok. So, we like U players, but Taylor sucks? You're not making much sense.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

taylors good but he cant cover and v.fox is good,but the rest of our safeties suck.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

trade our 6th pick and springs for more picks take landry or de with first pick a dt or merriweather with second salavea sucks and take a tall reciever with the third pick.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[QUOTE=rvd420;288257]trade our 6th pick and springs for more picks take landry or de with first pick a dt or merriweather with second salavea sucks and take a tall reciever with the third pick.[/QUOTE]

Ok. :Smoker:

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

your an undercover dallas fan arent you?HAIL SKINS!!!!

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

oh god i hope so........this boy makes more money than sean taylor........now that a bargin...........i have something to sell to........

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

what are you TALKING about? holy s... taylor can cover, especially for a safety, when he's not out of position. CJ WILL NOT fall to #6, we DO NOT need another safety unless it's depth. talyor sucks but vernon fox (roster trash) is good? on what planet?

you of all people, should not be calling people dallas fans.

Why do i feel like the board's collective IQ dropped 20 points overnight? Is someone linking this site over as ES again? if so, STOP.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;287569]I don't think an average starting caliber safety has the ability to cover the athletic TE in man to man coverage. Lord knows Sean Taylor doesn't.

The reason Archuleta sucked last year was because he was brought in to be a defensive enforcer and he couldn't make a damn tackle. Obviously the dude didn't forget everything he knew about tackling that offseason, so it was very clearly a physical ailment that kept him from doing his job. It's won't be hard for our coaching staff to find out in camp if this ailment is going to create similar problems this year.

I say we don't risk cutting a guy who very plausibly could have been healed by the lack of PT he got down the stretch of the season so he can go somewhere else and be the player he was in STL. We have guys like Lloyd and Patten on the roster who aren't going to improve at all,we should get their salaries off the books while we have a chance.[/quote]


I don't recall too many tight ends making Taylor look bad. I think people are putting too much stock into last year regarding Taylor. Personally, I think he could play corner if he wanted to.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=rvd420;288256]taylors good but he cant cover and v.fox is good,but the rest of our safeties suck.[/quote]


The 4:20 in your name is very telling.

Prieleau is better than Fox and I think Arch would be alright as a FS inside the box.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;288383]Why do i feel like the board's collective IQ dropped 20 points overnight? Is someone linking this site over as ES again? if so, STOP.[/QUOTE]

LOL. That exactly what I was thinking.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=That Guy;288383]what are you TALKING about? holy s... taylor can cover, especially for a safety, when he's not out of position. CJ WILL NOT fall to #6, we DO NOT need another safety unless it's depth. talyor sucks but vernon fox (roster trash) is good? on what planet?

you of all people, should not be calling people dallas fans.

Why do i feel like the board's collective IQ dropped 20 points overnight? Is someone linking this site over as ES again? if so, STOP.[/quote]

A - effing - men!

What the hell is going on around here?

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P;288250]Ok. So, we like U players, but Taylor sucks? You're not making much sense.[/QUOTE]


When you said we had 5 other safeties, he said "yea, and all [B][I]BUT[/I][/B] Taylor and Fox suck."

For the record, a safety opposite Sean Taylor should be WAY down the priority list.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

:benched: this is what i think of archy!!!i forgot prio was still on the team.oops!!!

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

Yikes. This is first thread I looked at today, just a few minutes ago. And one of the first things I read is "taylor sux." ?????

Maybe I'll just come back tomorrow.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;288520]Yikes. This is first thread I looked at today, just a few minutes ago. And one of the first things I read is "taylor sux." ?????

Maybe I'll just come back tomorrow.[/QUOTE]That was just an early April Fools joke.

Re: Have We Seen The Last of Archuleta in a Skins Uniform?
 

[quote=That Guy;288383]Why do i feel like the board's collective IQ dropped 20 points overnight? Is someone linking this site over as ES again? if so, STOP.[/quote]

Seriously... It seems like the Warpath has had a huge influx of outspoken individuals with very low football IQ's this offseason. It makes it tough to participate in an intelligent conversation when you have to comment on dumb shit like Archuleta for Bly, straight up...