Re: Pacman suspendened for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;295956]I'm not arguing the personal conduct code. my argument is that there have been a ton of football players in the past that have been arrested, and suffered little or no punishment. why now?[/QUOTE]

There's a new sheriff in town....

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I think the CBA has a personal conduct policy that leaves it up to the Commissioner to determine how a player should be punished. The NFLPA can appeal a punishment, but I think the ultimate decision rests with the Commissioner. While that leaves the Commish with a lot of discretion, I think the Commissioners have been judicious (some would say too judicious) about handing out tough punishments and haven't abused their authority.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I don't care if there was precedence in place or not. This is a harsh consequence for acting like a douchebag. In one word, this is justice.

I know I'd have been fired for a lot less.

Re: Pacman suspendened for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=dmek25;295944]to play devils advocate( i really think Jones deserves his punishment) what grounds does the NFL have for the suspension? there were no policies in place when all the thuggery had taken place[/quote]
He represents the NFL just as you represent your employer and they really don't need a writen policy just use sound judgement. I'm sure there are writen guide lines players have to follow and that the NFL reserves the right to suspend a player as they see fit.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

This new commish is not playing around. What people are forgetting is that three people were shot at this strip club and a guy that Pac Man was with most likely did the shooting. Becasue of this a man will never walk again. People need to remember that. What if that was one of us, or it was a friend of ours? I think the punishment was very fair. Pac Man needs to learn that hanging around bad people will get you nowhere in life.

Chris Henry's punishment was also fair. He constantly gets in trouble. It's like he just can't avoid being arrested. Dude needs to learn how to be a man. No excuse for driving around with a suspended license. Pay your ticket like everyone else does. Grow the f--k up and learn how to be a man.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

Good moves. These lowlife thugs need to be taught a lesson, along with anyone else who thinks they are above the law in the future.

The NFL is better off without these guys.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I'm no lawyer, but in a lot of ways, the law has "common sense" and "sound judgment" written into it.

For example, when it comes to determining if you were assaulted, one of the conditions for the charge is that "a reasonable person" would feel threatened by another's actions.

Or on self-defense, if "a reasonable person" would feel his life was in danger, he could use lethal force to defend himself.

Nobody is going to quarrell with this suspension, because it just feels reasonable to 95% of the population. You get in this much trouble, you get spanked. And spanked hard.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I say that the union agrees with this decision and does nothing. If they fight the issue it will be interesting to see how they defend a guy with this type of record. It won't happen!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;295987]I'm no lawyer, but in a lot of ways, the law has "common sense" and "sound judgment" written into it.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. Not to threadjack, but a lot of people who criticize X, Y, or Z aspect of the legal system generally don't understand that there is a common-sense reason why the system is the way it is.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;295973]damn those hillbillies[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree with you more.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;295992]Totally agree. Not to threadjack, but a lot of people who criticize X, Y, or Z aspect of the legal system generally don't understand that there is a [B]common-sense reason[/B] why the system is the way it is.[/quote]
i really disagree. i think this is why our legal system is such a mess. if someone kills someone, throws the gun on the floor of their car, and gets pulled over for speeding, does the officer have probable cause to pick up the gun? this should be common sense, but alot of times its inadmissible in court

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;295992]Totally agree. Not to threadjack, but a lot of people who criticize X, Y, or Z aspect of the legal system generally don't understand that there is a common-sense reason why the system is the way it is.[/QUOTE]

Like the laws against Marijuana?

I'm struggling to find any common sense there.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Beemnseven;296010]Like the laws against Marijuana?

I'm struggling to find any common sense there.[/quote]

I'll second that

:cool-smil

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;296011]I'll second that

:cool-smil[/QUOTE]


I'll third.

:Smoker:

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

James thrash is one of the players sitting on the board working with the Comish on these issues. I don't think any of the six had anything to do with this but just read he was on the board.
[url=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=3359]Thrash Named to Advisory Council[/url]

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;296011]I'll second that

:cool-smil[/quote]

Damn, your startin to look like Pacman? Maybe you need a little suspension?? 1 YEAR?????

Got kids? Thats a no brainer.
I hope we aren't going to debate what's legal and what's not?

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;296015]Damn, your startin to look like Pacman? Maybe you need a little suspension?? 1 YEAR?????

Got kids? Thats a no brainer.
I hope we aren't going to debate what's legal and what's not?[/quote]

no worse than booze, only difference is one is legal and one isn't.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;296010]Like the laws against Marijuana?

I'm struggling to find any common sense there.[/QUOTE]

He didn't say ALL laws.

Re: Pacman suspendened for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=airsoftking;295921]I think it's the right descision![/quote]

me too.. I meant I think PacMan is STUPID.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I'll agree that marijuana laws are kinda dumb[I] to me[/I], but the fact is that they represent community standards. They can be repealed as soon as enough people apply pressure to their state legislatures to do so. Moreover, the penalties for possession of marijuana are really light and typically involve paying a relatively small fine. Almost no one does "time" for simple possession.

Dmek, with regard to the suppression of evidence, the law is pretty fair and evidence usually will not be suppressed without a damn good reason. In your hypo, the gun would be admissible in any jurisdiction with which I'm familiar.

I'm no legal scholar, but my limited experience with the law has led me to believe that it's getting a bad rap. Matty, you probably feel the same way about the insurance industry.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

Here we go..... sheesh..

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;296016]no worse than booze, only difference is one is legal and one isn't.[/quote]


Right Pacman, I mean Mat, they both make your smarter to I'm quite sure.......LOL

1 YEAR!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296023]I'll agree that marijuana laws are kinda dumb[I] to me[/I], but the fact is that they represent community standards. They can be repealed as soon as enough people apply pressure to their state legislatures to do so. Moreover, the penalties for possession of marijuana are really light and typically involve paying a relatively small fine. Almost no one does "time" for simple possession.

Dmek, with regard to the suppression of evidence, the law is pretty fair and evidence usually will not be suppressed without a damn good reason. In your hypo, the gun would be admissible in any jurisdiction with which I'm familiar.

I'm no legal scholar, but my limited experience with the law has led me to believe that it's getting a bad rap. Matty, you probably feel the same way about the insurance industry.[/quote]


Actually, whether or not the penalites for pot possession are light depends on where you are. In my state, first offense of <15 grams of pot is automatic probation. After that, first "freebie" a simple possession charge is not less than 90 days, no more than 6 months in jail regardless if its pot, coke, whatever. If you throw in an intent to deliver, now we have a felony. So, whether or not pot is penalized depends on your jurisdicition, but there are people that do time for possession. Dmek, the gun would come into evidence.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I'm not going to try to defend anything Pacman Jones has done. However, I think his conduct is an indictment of the way young athletes are treated throughout their lives. Pacman's problems are not new...he was getting into trouble at WVU. Everyone knew it then, he has a problem. He can't stay outta trouble. No one ever did anything about it at West Virginia, all they did was enable him. All so they could make their millions of dollars by exploiting their players, but that's another topic. Pacman had trouble with the law at WVU and everyone around the university did everything they could to keep him on the field so they could make money. All he's ever learned is that as long as he performs on the field, his problems will go away off of it. As much as he made his own decisions, I feel sorry for a lot of the kids who grow up without the advantages most of the people judging them have enjoyed. Especially since, if they didn't have a father, the only males they really see are their coaches and they're too busy trying to figure out how to keep him on the field, rather than out of trouble. It's a little disturbing. I'm not condoning any of Pacman's actions, but I think there's a problem with this society, just as much as with him.

Another thought, Henry and Jones were both disciplinary problems in college. They also went to the same college, West Virginia. Why isn't Rich Rodriguez held accountable in any way? He did nothing about this when they were there. Where the hell was he? He just made sure they kept making the university money by taking them to a bowl game, it's bullshit.

Somehow, I don't think taking a troubled kid and making him a millionaire is the best way to solve people's problems. People should have seen this coming. I feel sorry for Pacman Jones.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;296025]Right Pacman, I mean Mat, they both make your smarter to I'm quite sure.......LOL

1 YEAR![/quote]

Regardless, killing brain cells should be a personal choice.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;296036]Regardless, killing brain cells should be a personal choice.[/quote]


Oh and it is. Just not legally.........kill on

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

If Sean Taylor got suspended for 1 year by the NFL would we be happy?

Pacman is a thug but hasn't been convicted of any crime, yet?

Suspension is a political one for the media. Total Bullshit and way too long!

What about Jamal Lewis? Why didn't the NFL suspend him?

Herb should be legal though.......that's not bullshit!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;296024]Here we go..... sheesh..[/QUOTE]

Nothing like a woman to ruin a man's sad attempt to pontificate on top of his soap box. :)

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

What does a conviction have to do with anything? He makes the league look bad by getting in all this trouble. To rely on our justice system to create the proper scenario where he can be suspended is naive. He has behaved very badly and should be punished for it whether he gets off legally or not.

A good example: He had marijuana possession charges dropped because his mom magically claimed it was all hers. Even though the stuff was in his bedroom in his house. So because he didn't get convicted for this he shouldn't be punished by the league?

The legal system in this country is far too faulty and often far too permissive to use it as anything more than part of the equation.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=JDALY27;296076]
What about Jamal Lewis? Why didn't the NFL suspend him? [/QUOTE]

They did, albeit only for 4 games. I think things just reached the tipping point, where there had been so many highly publicized arrests that something dramatic had to be done to send out a warning shot.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=FRPLG;296088]What does a conviction have to do with anything? He makes the league look bad by getting in all this trouble. To rely on our justice system to create the proper scenario where he can be suspended is naive. He has behaved very badly and should be punished for it whether he gets off legally or not.

A good example: He had marijuana possession charges dropped because his mom magically claimed it was all hers. Even though the stuff was in his bedroom in his house. So because he didn't get convicted for this he shouldn't be punished by the league?

The legal system in this country is far too faulty and often far too permissive to use it as anything more than part of the equation.[/quote]



It sets a dangerous standard of suspension. What is obviously bad PR for the league can change depending on how the NFL interprets those actions. No legal conviction is required so its based on the NFL's opinion. Don't think that Paul Tagli would have handed out such harsh punishments.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=JDALY27;296092]It sets a dangerous standard of suspension. What is obviously bad PR for the league can change depending on how the NFL interprets those actions. No legal conviction is required so its based on the NFL's opinion. Don't think that Paul Tagli would have handed out such harsh punishments.[/QUOTE]

The Commish isn't dumb, he's not going to start suspending players left and right and booting guys outta clubs because that would simply hurt the NFL's image even more and its bottom line. I wouldn't be too fearful that things will get out of control.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

the thing about pacman is even if the union fights this and gets the suspension shortened, the Titans can suspend him based on the fact he didn't disclose two arrests that happened in another state. So either way, he is done for the year. The titans suspension can not be challenged due to Pacman failure to disclose those arrests.

Henry on the other hand could get his shortened if the union fought it. I dont think they will though. They would get huge backlash from every direction if they did.

Both of these idiots played at WVU (sorry to say I am a WVU guy at this point) so most of their issues were swept under the rug while they were in college. Both got into some trouble but never paid the price for it. Now they are learning their actions do have consequences.

Good job commish!!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=JDALY27;296076]If Sean Taylor got suspended for 1 year by the NFL would we be happy?

Pacman is a thug but hasn't been convicted of any crime, yet?

Suspension is a political one for the media. Total Bullshit and way too long!

What about Jamal Lewis? Why didn't the NFL suspend him?

Herb should be legal though.......that's not bullshit![/QUOTE]

You make a valid point. As long as the NFL and Goodell apease the media waving Jones around like a mascot for everything that 's wrong with NFL, and never addressing the solution to the problem which lies in the rookie orientation seminars that should have been emphasized to every player coming out of college. Instead Goodell, met with Jones to show how fair and concerned he is about this lingering situation making up rules as he goes along. Hypocrisy has become the order of the day when it comes to young players and out of touch commissoners! (i.e., Stern, Goodell)

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=JDALY27;296092]It sets a dangerous standard of suspension. What is obviously bad PR for the league can change depending on how the NFL interprets those actions. No legal conviction is required so its based on the NFL's opinion. Don't think that Paul Tagli would have handed out such harsh punishments.[/QUOTE]

The NFL's opinion is the only thing that should matter. It is their league and these are their employees. I maintain that using thr US justice system as anything other part of the equation is much too lenient. Guys like Henry and Pacman are bad for the league, the other players, the teams and the union. But by your standard no one should do anything about Pacman since he hasn't been convicted. That is silly.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296094]The Commish isn't dumb, he's not going to start suspending players left and right and booting guys outta clubs because that would simply hurt the NFL's image even more and its bottom line. I wouldn't be too fearful that things will get out of control.[/QUOTE]

Good point.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=jdlea;296030]I'm not going to try to defend anything Pacman Jones has done. However, I think his conduct is an indictment of the way young athletes are treated throughout their lives. Pacman's problems are not new...he was getting into trouble at WVU. Everyone knew it then, he has a problem. He can't stay outta trouble. No one ever did anything about it at West Virginia, all they did was enable him. All so they could make their millions of dollars by exploiting their players, but that's another topic. Pacman had trouble with the law at WVU and everyone around the university did everything they could to keep him on the field so they could make money. All he's ever learned is that as long as he performs on the field, his problems will go away off of it. As much as he made his own decisions, I feel sorry for a lot of the kids who grow up without the advantages most of the people judging them have enjoyed. Especially since, if they didn't have a father, the only males they really see are their coaches and they're too busy trying to figure out how to keep him on the field, rather than out of trouble. It's a little disturbing. I'm not condoning any of Pacman's actions, but I think there's a problem with this society, just as much as with him.

Another thought, Henry and Jones were both disciplinary problems in college. They also went to the same college, West Virginia. Why isn't Rich Rodriguez held accountable in any way? He did nothing about this when they were there. Where the hell was he? He just made sure they kept making the university money by taking them to a bowl game, it's bullshit.

Somehow, I don't think taking a troubled kid and making him a millionaire is the best way to solve people's problems. People should have seen this coming. I feel sorry for Pacman Jones.[/quote]



This is exactly why the athletes are the way they are. Or any troubles kids now. people want to point the blaim in so many different directions instead of where they belong. Pacman and Henry are adults. They know whats right and whats wrong. carrying weed, beating up strippers and shooting guns, going 100 MPH while drinking!! any adult should know those are things that will get you in trouble. I dont feel sorry or believe this blaim the environment they lived in crap. They used their athletic gifts to get out of those situations. Now, they have all the money in the world and end up making the same stupid mistakes they made before. you have all the money in the world, that doesn't give you a pass to act like the biggest dumb ass in the world. These guys should pay for their crimes. Too many athletes get off with a slap on the wrist. If pacman is convicted of all the charges from the Vegas thing, being suspended from the NFL for 1 year will look like nothing compared to the jail time he will face. People need to stop making excuses for these idiots and hold them accountable for their actions. Do you think if any of us had all these run ins with the cops we would be sitting here typing on the Warpath.net?? HELL NO! we would be in jail or where ever. At somepoint when do they get treated as a person.. a normal person like everyone else in the country.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA;296100]You make a valid point. As long as the NFL and Goodell apease the media waving Jones around like a mascot for everything that 's wrong with NFL, and never addressing the solution to the problem which lies in the rookie orientation seminars that should have been emphasized to every player coming out of college. Instead Goodell, met with Jones to show how fair and concerned he is about this lingering situation making up rules as he goes along. Hypocrisy has become the order of the day when it comes to young players and out of touch commissoners! (i.e., Stern, Goodell)[/QUOTE]

You honestly think that the rookie seminar is the magic bullet here? How naive.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=FRPLG;296101]The NFL's opinion is the only thing that should matter. It is their league and these are their employees. I maintain that using thr US justice system as anything other part of the equation is much too lenient. Guys like Henry and Pacman are bad for the league, the other players, the teams and the union. But by your standard no one should do anything about Pacman since he hasn't been convicted. That is silly.[/quote]


It is "their" league, whatever that really means. The NFL is nothing without the players and fans who love to watch the most exiting sport in the world. Who would really watch a league with subpar performers but stand up citizens in the community? Granted in a perfect world the NFL gets both. Just seems like all of a sudden a new commissioner is trying to make a name for himself when nobody gives a shit about him. I'd rather see Pacman on sportscenter running for a 90 yard touchdown.....that's just me though. I understand everyone else's opinion and can't argue for a guy like Pacman too hard. Just hate the Uncle Sam approach of the NFL lately.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA;296100]You make a valid point. As long as the NFL and Goodell apease the media waving Jones around like a mascot for everything that 's wrong with NFL, and never addressing the solution to the problem which lies in the rookie orientation seminars that should have been emphasized to every player coming out of college. Instead Goodell, met with Jones to show how fair and concerned he is about this lingering situation making up rules as he goes along. Hypocrisy has become the order of the day when it comes to young players and out of touch commissoners! (i.e., Stern, Goodell)[/QUOTE]

IMHO it is some of the players (e.g., Pacman) who are out of touch with reality. There was an ESPN article a year or two ago about how rookie seminar sessions about being tolerant of other ethnic groups, homosexuals, etc. were considered a joke. You can't honestly believe that a rookie seminar is going to make a guy like Pacman think, "Gee, no one ever told me this crime stuff is bad and I should stop hanging out with felons. By golly, I'll change my ways now." Sorry for the sarcasm, but I[I] just can't see how the Commissioner is to blame for Pacman and other players being idiots[/I].

These players are grown men and should be treated as though they know the difference between right and wrong. To shift the blame from the perpetrators of crime onto the Commissioner is just wrong. Adults are accountable for their actions and, as adults, players are accountable for what they do and do not do.