Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=angryssg;300029]Da Skins![/quote] ??

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=hooskins;300032]??[/quote]

Exactly. That is what goes through my mind on alot of these posts.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

this draft is very deep with defensive linemen. now is the time to address that problem. both golston and carter are still young, adding a rookie to the mix could give us a solid line for the next couple of years

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but I'm wondering if the Skins could be concerned about losing Taylor to free agency when his contract is up so that's why Landry is on their radar.

I really wouldn't hate this pick, but it still would leave the d-line a big question mark.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;299997]I do not like the idea of the Skins drafting for need. [B]So many people are calling for drafting a d-lineman because the team will implode if we don't get one[/B] this year, it concerns me that the Skins will reach for someone not desrving of the 6 th pick. IF we keep # 6 pick we need to draft an elite player like Landry.
Not a single defensive lineman in this draft seems to be an elite player. There are a couple that come close but none of them are in the "can't miss" status like Landry.[/QUOTE]

The team imploded last year due in large part to the fact that we had major weaknesses on the D-line.

Still, I have to say that the more I hear and see about Landry the less upset I'd be if we wind up taking him. But like Matty said, we'd still have to get help on the front four somewhere -- maybe Kris Jenkins or Ian Scott.

I do like the idea of guys like Terrell Owens, Jason Witten, and Plaxico Burress watching out for their heads going over the middle against a lineup like Taylor and Landry. Assuming Landry is everything people say about him, we would have one of the most feared secondaries in the league at that point.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=Mattyk72;300078]Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but I'm wondering if the Skins could be concerned about losing Taylor to free agency when his contract is up so that's why Landry is on their radar.

I really wouldn't hate this pick, but it still would leave the d-line a big question mark.[/quote]

I'm really hoping that we're planning for the future by this point. We made all that space recently and if we keep value shopping like we have this year, I think we can make it to where we can sign both Cooley AND Taylor when the time comes.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=Beemnseven;300086][I][B]The team imploded last year due in large part to the fact that we had major weaknesses on the D-line.[/B][/I]

Still, I have to say that the more I hear and see about Landry the less upset I'd be if we wind up taking him. But like Matty said, we'd still have to get help on the front four somewhere -- maybe Kris Jenkins or Ian Scott.

I do like the idea of guys like Terrell Owens, Jason Witten, and Plaxico Burress watching out for their heads going over the middle against a lineup like Taylor and Landry. Assuming Landry is everything people say about him, we would have one of the most feared secondaries in the league at that point.[/quote]

Again, while I do feel we should address the defensive line, I was just wondering why you think we were effective in 2004 and 2005 with basically the same front four? If you think about it, really the only switch has been at LB. There has been the loss of Pierce, the shift of Marshall and each time the defense has gone down each year with basically the same personnel along the defensive line.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

Having a good front seven is more beneficial than having a good back seven. This is evident by examining the best defense's from last year.

1.Baltimore 2.Jacksonville 3.Oakland 4.Miami 5.Chicago 6.New England
Baltimore has talent at every postion
We all know everything on the Jaguars defense stats with the two big [B]DT[/B] up front
Oakland, miami, chicago and New england all have BAD secondaries if you ask me. However, they are able to disguise this with excellent dlines. For the love of god pick Omobi!

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;300091]I'm really hoping that we're planning for the future by this point. We made all that space recently and if we keep value shopping like we have this year, I think we can make it to where we can sign both Cooley AND Taylor when the time comes.[/quote]

I agree but part of planning for the future also includes being realistic about who we may be able to re-sign and who we may not be able to re-sign.

Let's face it, ST is going to be looking for big money, especially considering the rather paltry rookie deal he signed.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;300095]Again, while I do feel we should address the defensive line, I was just wondering why you think we were effective in 2004 and 2005 with basically the same front four? If you think about it, really the only switch has been at LB. There has been the loss of Pierce, the shift of Marshall and each time the defense has gone down each year with basically the same personnel along the defensive line.[/QUOTE]

I think the changes in the front seven from 2005 to 2006 IS what hurt us last year. While our pass rush from the front four was not good in 2005, we had a good run stopping line with Griiffen/Salavea at DT and Daniels/Wynn at DE. I still am not convinced that A. Carter is an everydown DE. He is a very small 265 pounds. The one game I attended, @ Texans, I was on the sidelines and Carter was getting pushed off the ball on a consistent basis. He could not hold his ground.
I do not care how many sacks he brings if he gives up ten yard runs several times a game. Our D-linemen have to stop the run first. If they can't they should not be on the field. I do not care how much we overpaid him, if he can't stop the run, get him out.
As much as I hate to admit it, I think we also missed Lavar Arrington or at least a Lavar type LB that could bring the hammer down and be very physical. Oher than LB Washington, we did not have another diffrence maker at LB last year.
Injuries to our other defensive players also played a big role in our bad year in 2006. If everyone is healthy, our talent at d-Line is not terrible to the point of crisis situation. there is a big investment in picking at # 6, lets not reach for need. I am not sure that another one dimensional pass rush end is the answer to all of our problems.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

I agree, even though I think that winning will make that cost come down a bit. A lot of winning teams are able to resign their players if they're about to turn the corner for a Super Bowl run. I think we field a winning team the next two years and Taylor resigning is a probability.

Not only that, if we actually begin to emphasize the draft, we'll have plenty of money leftover from not blowing the bank on FAs, we should have a good amount of cap space.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

There are a few ways we could go in this draft. I like a few D linemen and the idea of trading down only if thier is a cooley type player on the draft board in the 3rd or even 2nd round. Picking Landry I am not against if he is a sure thing. I am getting use to the thought that even with Landry or a D linemen this team is another draft away[for a Super Bowl or deep play-off run] along with free agent signing[in 08] before all the holes will be filled anyway. So with the six pick get a big time player or two if you can trade down while not trading away any of 08 picks!

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=Mattyk72;300103]I agree but part of planning for the future also includes being realistic about who we may be able to re-sign and who we may not be able to re-sign.

Let's face it, ST is going to be looking for big money, especially considering the rather paltry rookie deal he signed.[/quote]

and i say give him the big money i have no problem signing him to a 6 year 35-40 million dollar deal if we gave it to arch why not taylor and colley 6 year 25-30 milliion would be great hey daniel graham got it and so did brandon lloyd

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;300095]Again, while I do feel we should address the defensive line, I was just wondering why you think we were effective in 2004 and 2005 with basically the same front four? If you think about it, really the only switch has been at LB. There has been the loss of Pierce, the shift of Marshall and each time the defense has gone down each year with basically the same personnel along the defensive line.[/QUOTE]

Very simply, age and injuries caught up with them. When players are nearing the twilight of their careers, they can get old seemingly overnight.

In 2004 and 2005, guys like Griffin, Brandon Noble, and Philip Daniels were experienced veterans who were brought in for the “win now” philosophy. People forget that Joe Salave’a expected to be a back-up. They couldn’t have been looked upon to anchor the line for years to come. All along, the team should have planned for an infusion of youth – – but as we all know, this front office is exactly known for thinking for the future especially on defense.

Last year, father time caught up with them. Now, it looks like we may actually have to ask them to step up for another year to plug up the run.

But just to show that my mind isn’t completely closed, I think a good case has been made for drafting Landry. But they would still have to bring in someone to help out the front four.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

If we pick Landry it will immediately free Taylor up to play up in the box (like having an extra LB). That will give teams trouble scheming for the defense. That is exactly the kind of thing that Greg Williams loves. We addressed and drafted DL last year. I don't doubt that Williams wants Landry.

We will know in about a week.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=Beemnseven;300139]Very simply, age and injuries caught up with them. When players are nearing the twilight of their careers, they can get old seemingly overnight.

In 2004 and 2005, guys like Griffin, Brandon Noble, and Philip Daniels were experienced veterans who were brought in for the “win now” philosophy. People forget that Joe Salave’a expected to be a back-up. They couldn’t have been looked upon to anchor the line for years to come. All along, the team should have planned for an infusion of youth – – but as we all know, this front office is exactly known for thinking for the future especially on defense.

Last year, father time caught up with them. Now, it looks like we may actually have to ask them to step up for another year to plug up the run.

But just to show that my mind isn’t completely closed, I think a good case has been made for drafting Landry. But they would still have to bring in someone to help out the front four.[/quote]

While I definitely see your point that they're another year older and another year slower, reason just refuses to let me believe their play would decline THAT part in just one season. Unless there is a significant injury, I just feel like it's more of a gradual decline and not a total drop off. Again, let me reiterate by saying that Okoye is still my top choice. I just think with our middle held down by Fletcher this year, our run defense (even if we're stuck with the same guys in the middle) will be much improved.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

I really think our poor LB and corner play had a big part to do with the run D's collapse last year.

Marshall was dinged with his shoulder and never got on track, Holdman sucked period, and Washington was also dinged up. Same issues with the secondary, poor play and injuries.

GW's defense is heavily predicated on the LBs and CBs providing strong run support and neither unit was very productive last year.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=Daseal;299920]How well, minus one year, has our defense played with virtually no defensive line? Pretty well. Greg Williams depends on his corners to allow other players to attack the quarterback. While I'm not opposed to defensive linemen, I don't think we're handcuffed to any. I will have a huge grin on my face come draft day the second I hear Landry or Okoye called. I think, in my eyes, Landry has a slight edge.[/quote]

Daseal, this isn't directed at you - so take no offense.

But I'm sick and tired of hearing how Greg Williams' defense depends so much on his corners or the defense can't do this or that. This guy is supposed to be one of the great defensive minds in the game today. To suggest that everything crumbles if the corners don't play within the scheme is beyond me. I don't buy it. It might be a misguided opinion, but I don't buy it.

I understand football, okay. But....what about making adjustments? If he needs every little component in place, and every player healthy, and every player on his 'A' game to be successful, then he's not the coach everyone pretends he is; That goes for any coach in any sport for that matter!

The great ones get it done consistently with all types of talent. I think Gregg Williams is perhaps a good defensive coach, but by no means great.

I remember back in the day Richie Pettibon won with a lot of different players. By many standards, he did it with average to good talent.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=Beemnseven;300139]Very simply, age and injuries caught up with them. When players are nearing the twilight of their careers, they can get old seemingly overnight.

In 2004 and 2005, guys like Griffin, Brandon Noble, and Philip Daniels were experienced veterans who were brought in for the “win now” philosophy. People forget that Joe Salave’a expected to be a back-up. They couldn’t have been looked upon to anchor the line for years to come. All along, the team should have planned for an infusion of youth – – but as we all know, this front office is exactly known for thinking for the future especially on defense.

Last year, father time caught up with them. Now, it looks like we may actually have to ask them to step up for another year to plug up the run.

But just to show that my mind isn’t completely closed, I think a good case has been made for drafting Landry. But they would still have to bring in someone to help out the front four.[/quote]


this i how i feel right now the redskins will take landry with pick number 6 the guy is a monster ran a 4.35 can hit hard as hell great coverage he is a ballhawk perfect compliment to taylor and then witgh the fifth round pick ifeel they will take CJ Ah Oyu from oklahoma at de if anyone watched this guy in colege he could really be a sleeper pick

could someone please post up his scouting report and maybe dan bauzin from central michigan he can play both inside and outside he could be the next mark anderson who the bears got in the 5th round and produced 12 sacks we missed out on him and drafted anthony montgomery what the hell was that

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

Man, like we always say, hindsight is 20/20. Who REALLY would have thought Anderson would turn out like that?

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=GoSkins!;300142]If we pick Landry it will immediately free Taylor up to play up in the box (like having an extra LB). That will give teams trouble scheming for the defense. That is exactly the kind of thing that Greg Williams loves. We addressed and drafted DL last year. I don't doubt that Williams wants Landry.

We will know in about a week.[/quote]


yes we will 8 days we will hear: "With the 6th pick in the 2007 NFL draft the Washington Redskins select LaRon Landry Safety, LSU

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

Any great secondary can be destroyed by a good QB with no Pass rush on him. Landry would be awesome for our team but there are a few concerns I have if we were to pick him vs.our need (DL).

1. ST regressed this year and from all accounts I've heard and Williams defensive scheme for safeties is very complex. So do you neccesrily want a player who regressed and a rookie in the backfield calling coverages?

2. Who will play SS? FS?

3. Which position if filled with talent and youth would have a greater effect on the team as a hole, Seriously how long do u think of our dline could last with the age and history of injuries that it has on it?

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;300162]Any great secondary can be destroyed by a good QB with no Pass rush on him. Landry would be awesome for our team but there are a few concerns I have if we were to pick him vs.our need (DL).

1. ST regressed this year and from all accounts I've heard and Williams defensive scheme for safeties is very complex. So do you neccesrily want a player who regressed and a rookie in the backfield calling coverages?

2. Who will play SS? FS?

3. Which position if filled with talent and youth would have a greater effect on the team as a hole, Seriously how long do u think of our dline could last with the age and history of inuries that it has on it?[/quote]


To answer you're questions in order

1. yes i do taylor regressed mainly and he said this himself " I really need help in the defensive backfield no pierson, no ryan, no sean" landry perfect player to ply opposite taylor

2. They will switch off but Landry will play Free Safety most often for 2 reasons one: he is faster than taylor 2. taylor would be a better player in the box although they both would be great

3. safety cause once again youy can find a gem in the later rounds or if we would just sign ian scott already but i would prefer the safety our players will be healthy by opening day and i think that the d line will be back to the 2005 form at the end

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

What did you think of Ian Scott's play last year or in 2005 EARTHQUAKE?

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

Something is up with Ian Scott. The Bengals have canceled his visit. I think I heard the Falcons were going to as well. The Bears have said they will not bring him back unlesss he signs for the minimum. It's all very strange

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;300178]What did you think of Ian Scott's play last year or in 2005 EARTHQUAKE?[/quote]

ian scott's play last year was pretty good seeing as he played sparingly i am saying we should sign him cause he would be good depth and i dont understand why we havent tried to sign a defensive lineman yet

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300201]Something is up with Ian Scott. The Bengals have canceled his visit. I think I heard the Falcons were going to as well. The Bears have said they will not bring him back unlesss he signs for the minimum. It's all very strange[/quote]


i am starting to feel that but the bengals signed his visit cause they signed michael myers and the falcons are reportedly more interested in amobi okoye than scott that's why they cancelled butifhe came for a minimum value wouldnt you want him

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;300201]Something is up with Ian Scott. The Bengals have canceled his visit. I think I heard the Falcons were going to as well. The Bears have said they will not bring him back unlesss he signs for the minimum. It's all very strange[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I figured there was a good reason why he wasn't swallowed up by somebody at this point.

Still, he's got to be better than Joe Salave'a.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

Although I have been an Okoye backer from way back, I would be more than fine with Landry. As has been pointed out, top safeties have been a pretty safe pick the last few years. Teaming Landry with Taylor would create also sorts of options for the coaching staff. While Landry is faster, Taylor is no slouch and I am fine with him in coverage and that would create a real guessing game for opposing offenses.

(The times ST blew coverages, it looked to me be a mental mistake that may have occurred b/c he was trying to do too much; I rarely saw him "beat" from a purely physical point of view. Perhaps with someone he trusts on the other side, ST would not need to think so much and just play.)

While a safety generally is not going to make up for lack of pressure, perhaps with two elite safeties, their can be greater use of the safety as an extra player at one level of the field (as an extra pass rusher, lb, or cb given the skill sets involved). Last year Baltimore used Adalius Thomas all over the field, I think ST is a more gifted athelete than Thomas and could be used in a similar manner AS LONG AS there is a good safety who has the final line of defense covered. Landry seems to be that kind of safety.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;300147]While I definitely see your point that they're another year older and another year slower, reason just refuses to let me believe their play would decline THAT part in just one season. Unless there is a significant injury, I just feel like it's more of a gradual decline and not a total drop off. Again, let me reiterate by saying that Okoye is still my top choice. I just think with our middle held down by Fletcher this year, our run defense (even if we're stuck with the same guys in the middle) will be much improved.[/QUOTE]

Well, I can only tell you what Charles Mann said on a Redskin postgame show last year. He said he got old in as short a time span as the flight from Washington to San Fransisco when he left to play for the 49ers in 1994. He said it can happen that quick.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

According to Mel Kiper, Landry's only glitch is pass coverage. Would that be enough to dissuade the love for Landry knowing we just got rid of a safety like that?

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=Beemnseven;300247]According to Mel Kiper, Landry's only glitch is pass coverage. Would that be enough to dissuade the love for Landry knowing we just got rid of a safety like that?[/quote]


mel kiper is a dumbass for saying that he must have not seen the landry i was watching

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

roy williams sucks. let's keep him out of any comparisons.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=sbaughone;300281]roy williams sucks. let's keep him out of any comparisons.[/quote]


landry and taylor doesnt it sound great

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=Beemnseven;300247]According to Mel Kiper, Landry's only glitch is pass coverage. Would that be enough to dissuade the love for Landry knowing we just got rid of a safety like that?[/quote]

I'd find it hard to believe he could be as bad as AA.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=Mattyk72;300288]I'd find it hard to believe he could be as bad as AA.[/quote]


hes not even close

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=skins009;300099]Having a good front seven is more beneficial than having a good back seven. This is evident by examining the best defense's from last year.

1.Baltimore 2.Jacksonville 3.Oakland 4.Miami 5.Chicago 6.New England
Baltimore has talent at every postion
We all know everything on the Jaguars defense stats with the two big [B]DT[/B] up front
Oakland, miami, chicago and New england all have BAD secondaries if you ask me. However, they are able to disguise this with excellent dlines. For the love of god pick Omobi![/quote]Oakland's secondary was really really good. Tops in the league maybe.

But they wouldn't have made it to the top ten without Burgess and Sapp playing great football on that DL.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=GTripp0012;300311]Oakland's secondary was really really good. Tops in the league maybe.

But they wouldn't have made it to the top ten without Burgess and Sapp playing great football on that DL.[/quote]


true but i still like landry prob cause i m such a huge lsu fan

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;300326]true but i still like landry prob cause i m such a huge lsu fan[/quote]Well, for your sake, I'm going to agree with you that he's a great safety prospect. Best in a few years.

But you can get a lot of quality safeties later in the draft. The bust rate among day 1 safeties is very low. And when you have Sean Taylor on the other side, the difference between Landry in his prime...and Eric Weddle in his prime (for example) probably isn't going to change your teams record any.

But the difference between Amobi Okoye in his prime and a player of Saleve'a current caliber could be the difference in 2-3 wins in the standings per season.

Landry will be a good to great player at the next level, but if your team already has an investment in the safety position (Sean Taylor), the smart play would be to look elsewhere.

Re: My final argument for Drafting LaRon Landry
 

[quote=GTripp0012;300337]Well, for your sake, I'm going to agree with you that he's a great safety prospect. Best in a few years.

But you can get a lot of quality safeties later in the draft. The bust rate among day 1 safeties is very low. And when you have Sean Taylor on the other side, the difference between Landry in his prime...and Eric Weddle in his prime (for example) probably isn't going to change your teams record any.

But the difference between Amobi Okoye in his prime and a player of Saleve'a current caliber could be the difference in 2-3 wins in the standings per season.

Landry will be a good to great player at the next level, but if your team already has an investment in the safety position (Sean Taylor), the smart play would be to look elsewhere.[/quote]

yeah but i dont care who we get anymore