Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

This had better be false, b/c if it isn't CJ then we don't need a WR

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

I tried to warn everyone on three different forums that this was a strong possibility

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

What is the deal with Ian Scott anyway? Has he visited Redskin Park?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=GMScud;300589]But what if we found a trading partner in the mid-late first round and also scored a 2nd and 3rd or 4th rounder? We could get Bowe and also end up with a D-lineman like Tim Crowder, Charles Johnson, or Turk McBride, or a safety like Meriweather.

I do think that Cooley, Sellers, Portis, and Betts can put together good red zone effeciency. If friggin' Lloyd can step up he'd help too....

Argghhh, I just wish tomorrow was the 28th, not the 21st. I am SO tired of speculation at this point.[/quote]

Seems reasonable to think that if the skins are considering CJ, then they would have to compare him against the next best receiver in the draft. It is just the smart way to evaluate players. There could be a trade senario that nets us a later 1st round pick where Bowe is the best available player on the board. In that case, the skins would have to consider him. Regardless, the skins are rating players at every position so I'm sure Bowes name has come up.

Speaking of trades, with the draft 1 week away, how much longer do you guys think Rosenhaus lets it go before he starts up the Briggs rumors again?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=GMScud;300559]You weren't disrespectful. It was funny.:food-smil

You say from what you are reading Dwayne is our man. Two questions:
1) You mean Dwayne Bowe, not Dwayne Jarret, right?
2) Where are you reading it? Anywhere other than Pasquerelli?[/quote]


I did not mean to infer that we were getting Dwayne. I meant from the original post that if skins are looking at him he might be the better man. Who know maybe not.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;300573]they always say i am too young to know all that i know when I know nothing at all, just like all youngsters.

and for the record am i the youngest one on this site[/QUOTE]

You being youngest explains a lot about your posts.

(Your original quote is now corrected!)

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=Southpaw;300491]Either Campbell or Portis along with the #6 pick. Not likely, but it's not out of the realm of possibility with this organization.[/quote]


For the seven billionth time, Portis will not be traded. It cannot happen.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

the idea of using our first round pick on a WR is absolutely the most ridiculous rumor i have seen this offseason.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=FRPLG;300458]Other than CJ there is NO WAY WE TAKE A WR. That would be worse than taking a QB.[/quote]
Not in the first round that is, unless we trade with NE and have two first round selections...

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

Doesn't matter who we get(unless it is a punter/kicker) they will probably make a positive impact regardless. I can't see us getting a WR, with what we acquired last season, and the crop of definsive linemen is top notch. Then again, rarely have the Skins' FO addressed the needs of the team in the draft. For all we know they will draft a QB at #6, which to be honest in the long run isn't such a bad idea. Even if JC works out, I rather see us have a young QB as a backup than Brunell. Remember Schuler/Frerotte? Jury is still out on JC, and we know what Brunell can/can't do. BOttom line is nobody knows what the Skins' want to do. I would even bet that the FO is still trying to decide what to do. Remember last year when they picked up 3 RBs in the mid to lower rounds? Wasted picks in my opinion as they could have drafted the best available defensive linemen left. I am sure they could have had at least one or maybe two future starters if they would have done that.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

I think you guys dont realize why the Skins are thinking WR. As of now we have Moss, El, and Trash(Lloyd is ify). But if you look at El's contract and even Moss, I think they both get heavy in a couple years and it is gonna get really expensive to have all the current WRs. We have eventually look for receivers.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;300860]I think you guys dont realize why the Skins are thinking WR. As of now we have Moss, El, and Trash(Lloyd is ify). But if you look at El's contract and even Moss, I think they both get heavy in a couple years and it is gonna get really expensive to have all the current WRs. We have eventually look for receivers.[/QUOTE]

"Eventually" is the key word. Not this year, and especially not in the first round

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300860]I think you guys dont realize why the Skins are thinking WR. As of now we have Moss, El, and Trash(Lloyd is ify). But if you look at El's contract and even Moss, I think they both get heavy in a couple years and it is gonna get really expensive to have all the current WRs. We have eventually look for receivers.[/quote]We have a lot of eventual needs. Some of them are also current needs. We have to address the defensive eventual needs. Worse case scenario, we can sign a guy to replace Moss in the offense.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300868]"Eventually" is the key word. Not this year, and especially not in the first round[/quote]

I understand, but some will argue an athlete like CJ will not come around for another 10 years. If the Skins could lock him up with a better contract that even for each year it might not be bad.

I personally want someone on the Dline first round, but I can understand why the front office might be interested in a WR. Everyone on this site thinks the office is full with a bunch of illogical people who dont know anything, but I think the idea of getting a good WR isnt irrational.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

What if CJ turns out to be one of the best receivers of all time? Would you not want to roll the dice and take a chance with one of the receivers with the highest potential in a while?

This is the same reason why Oakland is having such a hard time committing to Russell. You cant always draft for needs, because it makes you pass extremely talented individuals that will help your team in the long run.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;300870]I understand, but some will argue an athlete like CJ will not come around for another 10 years. If the Skins could lock him up with a better contract that even for each year it might not be bad.

I personally want someone on the Dline first round, but I can understand why the front office might be interested in a WR. Everyone on this site thinks the office is full with a bunch of illogical people who dont know anything, but I think the idea of getting a good WR isnt irrational.[/QUOTE]

I'd love to have CJ on this team, it'd be awesome to watch JC and CJ on the field. HOWEVER, that's only if the other pieces of our team are in place. And they're not. I think the positive impact of a good (even great) WR on the rest of the team is not as high as that of a good DT/DE.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;300871]What if CJ turns out to be one of the best receivers of all time? Would you not want to roll the dice and take a chance with one of the receivers with the highest potential in a while?

This is the same reason why Oakland is having such a hard time committing to Russell. You cant always draft for needs, because it makes you pass extremely talented individuals that will help your team in the long run.[/QUOTE]

Who's to say Landry won't be one of the best safeties of all time? Or Anderson one of the best DEs. Or Okoye one of the best DTs?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300874]Who's to say Landry won't be one of the best safeties of all time? Or Anderson one of the best DEs. Or Okoye one of the best DTs?[/quote]

I think you are missing my point. As for talent, I think CJ is considered to be one of the best WRs to enter the draft, based on college potential. I dont think you can say the same thing for any other player in the draft.

What I am trying to say is, it is hard to pass on someone who is expected to be amazing and very rare.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300872]I'd love to have CJ on this team, it'd be awesome to watch JC and CJ on the field. HOWEVER, that's only if the other pieces of our team are in place. And they're not. [B]I think the positive impact of a good (even great) WR on the rest of the team is not as high as that of a good DT/DE.[/B][/quote]

Ok, I understand your point, but I dont think a good DT/DE has a better impact than an amazing WR, like CJ.

I still want a defensive player, and I am just trying to argue the reasoning behind the interest in CJ. That being said, I would not be very upset if we get CJ instead of a DT/DE.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300874]Who's to say Landry won't be one of the best safeties of all time? Or Anderson one of the best DEs. Or Okoye one of the best DTs?[/quote]Exactly.

Hoo, I get where your coming from, but if you remove all the hype from Johnson for a second, is he really anything more than another successful college WR with good character? That's what the team that drafts him will be getting; a guy who had a good college career (if not short), with good character.

Honestly, for a team with a pathetic DL and guys like Moss and Cooley already on the team, why is Johnson even a topic of discussion?

You can't make a pick expecting historical greatness. SmootSmack is 100% correct in his assessment that Okoye, Adams, Quinn, Patrick Willis, LaRon Landry have just as good of a chance to be the best ever at their position as Johnson does.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

GTripp, you get knighted by Sir SmootSmack

Hooskins, enjoy your vacation in Goa. See you in 3 months, in the meantime review the rules

Rule XVII. Article XXII. Section XXVI: Thou shalt not not disagree with a mod on consecutive posts or thou shalt be smote

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=GTripp0012;300878]

You can't make a pick expecting historical greatness. SmootSmack is 100% correct in his assessment that Okoye, Adams, Quinn, Patrick Willis, LaRon Landry have just as good of a chance to be the best ever at their position as Johnson does.[/quote]


I think you can. The way you are wording it, makes it seem like teams draft to make history. Teams draft to [B]win, [/B]and the only way to figure out who to draft is based on college performance and potential.

I think you underplaying CJ skill and potential. He is fast, big, and smart. Receivers that are strong, big and skilled as him do not come around much. And yes Quinn has the potential of being an amazing QB too but not all those other guys. To me Quinn and CJ are the two best players coming out of the draft.

The point is you have to judge a player based on college and potential. If they are one of the best players to come in years(based on those predictions) then you have to draft them. What else can you use to judge a player?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300879]GTripp, you get knighted by Sir SmootSmack

Hooskins, enjoy your vacation in [B]Goa[/B]. See you in 3 months, in the meantime review the rules

Rule XVII. Article XXII. Section XXVI: Thou shalt not not disagree with a mod on consecutive posts or thou shalt be smot e[/quote]

I have always wanted to go to Goa. Thanks Warpath Mod IV!

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300881]I think you can. The way you are wording it, makes it seem like teams draft to make history. Teams draft to [B]win, [/B]and the only way to figure out who to draft is based on college performance and potential.

I think you underplaying CJ skill and potential. He is fast, big, and smart. Receivers that are strong, big and skilled as him do not come around much. And yes Quinn has the potential of being an amazing QB too.

The point is you have to judge a player based on college and potential. If they are one of the best players to come in years(based on those predictions) then you have to draft them. What else can you use to judge a player?[/quote]Well you certainly can't use hype.

Johnson is big and fast, but in the NFL, that simply isn't going to seperate him from his competition. Everyone is big, everyone is fast. You have to be smart to seperate from your competition consistently.

Is Johnson a smart, wily receiver who can give himself an edge over any opponent? Maybe he is. But we don't know that for sure. All we know from the draft process is that he's big, strong, fast, and can jump, just like every other player he will be going up against.

I don't believe that theres anyway that Johnson will just take over this league physically. The average player in the NFL today is a physical beast. Having elite physical tools no longer makes a player special. Therefore, in my estimation, there is no reason to expect Johnson to be special.

He should be expected to be good, because thats what he was in college, very good. But how much is a very good WR worth when you already have two very good recievers? Certainly not a first round pick.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;300881]I think you can. The way you are wording it, makes it seem like teams draft to make history. Teams draft to [B]win, [/B]and the only way to figure out who to draft is based on college performance and potential.

I think you underplaying CJ skill and potential. He is fast, big, and smart. Receivers that are strong, big and skilled as him do not come around much. And yes Quinn has the potential of being an amazing QB too but not all those other guys. To me Quinn and CJ are the two best players coming out of the draft.

The point is you have to judge a player based on college and potential. If they are one of the best players to come in years(based on those predictions) then you have to draft them. What else can you use to judge a player?[/QUOTE]

I'm changing your destination to the Easter Islands.

Let me ask you this before you go. Do you think CJ is considerably better than Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Roy Williams or Andre Johnson?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300884]I'm changing your destination to the Easter Islands.

Let me ask you this before you go. Do you think CJ is considerably better than Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Roy Williams or Andre Johnson?[/quote]I know this question wasn't directed at me, but my answer would be that these players would be a reasonable high end expectation for Johnson. He could conceivably be better, but he could very easily be worse.

We don't want to be the team to find out he can't hold Larry Fitzgerald's jock.

And even if he can, wouldn't our offense become a classic example of too many cooks (talented WRs) in the kitchen?

Calvin Johnson has hype selection written all over him, and correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that the type of acquisition that put us in this poor cap, win depreived situation that we are in today?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

I agree he isnt a need, but as of now I see 3 positions we might go for.

1)DT/DE
2)WR-CJ
3)FS-Landry

I want a DT, but I could see the Skins going for those other guys based on talent. I wouldnt be surprised if we get CJ or Landry. Teams dont always draft on need, unless it is a QB they need.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300884]I'm changing your destination to the Easter Islands.

Let me ask you this before you go. Do you think CJ is considerably better than Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Roy Williams or Andre Johnson?[/quote]

I think CJ has the potential to be a much better version of Boldin if he stays healthy.

I think he will be better than Roy Williams without a doubt.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300886]I agree he isnt a need, but as of now I see 3 positions we might go for.

1)DT/DE
2)WR-CJ
3)FS-Landry

I want a DT, but I could see the Skins going for those other guys based on talent. I wouldnt be surprised if we get CJ or Landry. Teams dont always draft on need, unless it is a QB they need.[/quote]And I'm not saying we draft for need and turn a blind eye to logic.

I'm saying we should [I]keep[/I] our eye on logic, and not take a player who would either prevent us from resigning Cooley, or otherwise be our third target for the first 4 years of his career.

There are a bunch of prospects that would make our team better than Johnson would that aren't on the DL. Theres also a bunch of receiver prospects who project to the NFL just as well as Johnson of whom we could trade way down for.

Outside of trading up for JaMarcus Russell, trading up for Calvin Johnson is the single worst possible use of the 2006 draft.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300887]I think CJ has the potential to be a much better version of Boldin if he stays healthy.

I think he will be better than Roy Williams without a doubt.[/quote]That's a really high bar you have for him.

And for his sake, I hope he meets his expetations so he doesn't have to deal with daily media criticism for the rest of his life.

But theres not a big chance that he will exceed your expectations. Possible, of course. Likely, no.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

I am not making a personal claim for CJ, I am just trying to explain drafting CJ would not be all too bad.

I mean I am sure you understand you why the Skins will even consider him, right?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=GTripp0012;300889]That's a really high bar you have for him.

And for his sake, I hope he meets his expetations so he doesn't have to deal with daily media criticism for the rest of his life.

But theres not a big chance that he will exceed your expectations. Possible, of course. Likely, no.[/quote]

You dont think he will be better than Roy Williams? If he isnt better than Williams then CJ will be considered a bust. You cannot think he will be a bust.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

Ok, but hooskins would you agree that the four receivers I mentioned are all among the best, if not the best, wide receivers in the NFL? And CJ, at best, would be among those receivers (even if he's at the top of that list)?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300890]I am not making a personal claim for CJ, I am just trying to explain drafting CJ would not be all too bad.

I mean I am sure you understand you why the Skins will even consider him, right?[/quote]Well, I understand the reasoning. It's the same reasoning that every other team is using.

That doesn't make it good reasoning or even acceptable.

I think theres a perfectly logical reason that so many high picks end up being busts and thats due to a series of thousands of fallacies in the way the draft process is executed.

And until things change in the way people think about the draft, this trend will continue.

There is a 99.9% someone will reach for Calvin Johnson because they will hear what people are saying and assume that he's going to be something different than what they see from him. I think it's safe to say at this point that if someone trades up for Calvin Johnson, they are making a mistake.

1st round receivers in general are good picks for teams without any elite target, TE or WR. And only about 4-5 teams fit into this category. But some team is going to draft CJ with the expectation to redefine the position.

If the expectation for you at the highest level of the game is to redefine the position, how can you possibly live up to expectations? What evidence do we have the Calvin Johnson is even physically capable of redefining the way the WR position is played?

Calvin Johnson is in an impossible position.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300892]Ok, but hooskins would you agree that the four receivers I mentioned are all among the best, if not the best, wide receivers in the NFL? And CJ, at best, would be among those receivers (even if he's at the top of that list)?[/quote]

Yes, I agree with that. I also agree that I have high expectations for CJ.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300891]You dont think he will be better than Roy Williams? If he isnt better than Williams then CJ will be considered a bust. You cannot think he will be a bust.[/quote]So, according to Hooskins...0% chance that CJ will be worse than Roy Williams?

I mean, I'm not sure how that claim can be made with such certainty.

I'll say theres a 35% chance that he's not as good as Roy Williams, which means that I think theres a 35% chance that he will be deemed a bust.

To me, if he holds a starting role in this league for 10 years, he's not a bust. He just will be incapable of living up to unprecidented expectations.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;300894]Yes, I agree with that. I also agree that I have high expectations for CJ.[/QUOTE]

That's the thing though. They're all great receivers, phenomenal even, but they aren't making their teams any better. Like I said, CJ would be great for this team if he was a final piece.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300896]That's the thing though. They're all great receivers, phenomenal even, but they aren't making their teams any better. Like I said, CJ would be great for this team if he was a final piece.[/quote]Even in that case, you'd have to be wondering why the Moss/Cooley combination would be considered inadequate, to the point where we would need to use a precious 1st rounder at the position. Seems to me that if you need to improve the passing attack, both those guys are capable of more responsibility.

I can't ever remember a situation where the hype ran this rampant before. I mean what you saw from CJ on Saturday's last year was pretty good. What these draft experts saw makes you wonder if theres a perception barrier or something. Theres just no way we were watching the same guy they were.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300896]That's the thing though. They're all great receivers, phenomenal even, but they aren't making their teams any better. Like I said, CJ would be great for this team if he was a final piece.[/quote]

Yeah but what about all the good receivers on good in the present and past?
Holt, R. Moss with the Vikings, etc.

And who is to say that team will not be better in the LR by getting a WR? They can work on their other pieces later, but get the best WR option right now.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;300900]Yeah but what about all the good receivers on good in the present and past?
Holt, R. Moss with the Vikings, etc.

And who is to say that team will not be better in the LR by getting a WR? They can work on their other pieces later, but get the best WR option right now.[/QUOTE]

You're wrong. I'm right. End of discussion. Locking this thread

Seriously though, it comes down to a difference in philosophy I suppose. I believe in buidling from the inside out as much as possible. Meaning build the trenches then work your way out to the skill players.