Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;302975]I don't hate Vick. I'm a long time VT fan (14 years). I too want to see him successfull, but I will not ignor his mistakes.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, I am pretty liberal when it comes to forgiving athletes. My argument is that I shouldnt expect more from those guys then I expect from my friends, and my friends are a bunch of degenerates. I actually kind of root for the bad guys.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=djnemo65;302983]Fair enough, I am pretty liberal when it comes to forgiving athletes. My argument is that I shouldnt expect more from those guys then I expect from my friends, and my friends are a bunch of degenerates. I actually kind of root for the bad guys.[/quote]
I was a military brat as a child, and joined as an adult. I have high standards for personal conduct.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;302960]Why do people hate Vick so much? I always wanted him to succeed, and think it's sad that he hasn't become the player we all hoped he would be. I still remember watching him during the 02 season with my jaw on the floor.[/QUOTE]

It's not that i hate Vick, I hate the way everyone tabbed him as such a GREAT QB. He's not. When are people going to understand that just because you can run does not mean you can throw.
I remember him having a good game last year and then getting all upset in an interview saying "well that should shut everyone up about me not being able to throw well". The next game he passed for like 50% and sucked again. Vick is a faster Kordell Stewart, and Vince Young is cut from the exact same mold.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;302990]It's not that i hate Vick, I hate the way everyone tabbed him as such a GREAT QB. He's not. When are people going to understand that just because you can run does not mean you can throw.
I remember him having a good game last year and then getting all upset in an interview saying "well that should shut everyone up about me not being able to throw well". The next game he passed for like 50% and sucked again. Vick is a faster Kordell Stewart, and Vince Young is cut from the exact same mold.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but you have to admit, back in 02 when he went into Lambeau and beat the Pack for the first time in history in the playoffs, it looked like we were watching the dawn of something special.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;302990]It's not that i hate Vick, I hate the way everyone tabbed him as such a GREAT QB. He's not. When are people going to understand that just because you can run does not mean you can throw.
I remember him having a good game last year and then getting all upset in an interview saying "well that should shut everyone up about me not being able to throw well". The next game he passed for like 50% and sucked again. Vick is a faster Kordell Stewart, and Vince Young is cut from the exact same mold.[/quote]
I believe that we had a similar discussion about Vince Young. While I agree that they are good athletes and exciting players, the actually take their teams style of play back to before the foreward pass was popular.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;302997]I agree, but you have to admit, back in 02 when he went into Lambeau and beat the Pack for the first time in history in the playoffs, it looked like we were watching the dawn of something special.[/QUOTE]

I just never beleived it. I'm telling you the truth. I have always noticed a flaw in his game, and I beleive that you can have a good game once in a while and still be not very good. Look at Danny Weurfful? (sp?) He had some 300+ passing yard games. He sucked.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;302998]I believe that we had a similar discussion about Vince Young. While I agree that they are good athletes and exciting players, the actually take their teams style of play back to before the foreward pass was popular.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, we did.
I don't care how good of an athlete you are, being a QB is a different breed. You have to have quick reflexes, strong, accurate arm, good decision making ability, and of course, Talent. Having legs helps...sure...but not required. See Manning and Brady.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;302918]Having a problem with reading? They went there for DRUGS! A NON-ISSUE, not sure what planet your from.....?

However, in most civilized rural/non-rural areas that I know of , this a HUGE ISSUE! You can pick which drug dealing family member thug lives at your house and be aware of whats going on (DOG-FIGHTING, COCK-FIGHTING, DOG RAPE STALLS,DRUG DEALING, etc.), as he WAS due to being seen at this home of his frequently.

Oh......but I'm sure he had NO idea...right?[/quote]

No i am not having a problem reading and unless I missed something, they did not find the drugs they were looking for and that is why this hasn't been a bigger story...During the course of that investigation they found these neglected dogs. Now lemme reiterate, I am not condoning the treatment that the dogs received BUT as far as VICK goes unless there is a direct link to him and the dogs I consider it a non-issue on his record. It's more likely that his idiot relative ran this thing, b/c lets face it that family doesn't have a stellar record (see Marcus Vick). Athletes these days are already targets and I don't think there should be a witch hunt for Vick b/c of this. Someone earlier made the point that its unfair to expect that an athlete's entire family will be model citizens and if they are caught in some sh*t its not fair to try to pin it on the athlete (even if it was his house). Innocent til proven guilty

Btw don't try to be condescending, its f*ckin pathetic passive aggressive BS.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303006]Yeah, we did.
I don't care how good of an athlete you are, being a QB is a different breed. You have to have quick reflexes, strong, accurate arm, good decision making ability, and of course, Talent. Having legs helps...sure...but not required. See Manning and Brady.[/quote]

See also Palmer, Brees, and Rivers.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;303013]See also Palmer, Brees, and Rivers.[/QUOTE]

I pointed out Manning and Brady cause they have rings.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303014]I pointed out Manning and Brady cause they have rings.[/quote]

Well these guy are the just below that caliber and without the rings, but still solid. But, yeah I see what you're saying.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;303017]Well these guy are the just below that caliber and without the rings, but still solid. But, yeah I see what you're saying.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure they will have a ring eventually. But throughout history, the only good scrambling QB to win a super bowl was Steve Young. But he was one of the best qb's EVER (i think he's THE best). He could knock a can off someone's head at 50 yards away.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=Rajmahal33;303011]No i am not having a problem reading and unless I missed something, they did not find the drugs they were looking for and that is why this hasn't been a bigger story...During the course of that investigation they found these neglected dogs. Now lemme reiterate, I am not condoning the treatment that the dogs received BUT as far as VICK goes unless there is a direct link to him and the dogs I consider it a non-issue on his record. It's more likely that his idiot relative ran this thing, b/c lets face it that family doesn't have a stellar record (see Marcus Vick). Athletes these days are already targets and I don't think there should be a witch hunt for Vick b/c of this. Someone earlier made the point that its unfair to expect that an athlete's entire family will be model citizens and if they are caught in some sh*t its not fair to try to pin it on the athlete (even if it was his house). Innocent til proven guilty

Btw don't try to be condescending, its f*ckin pathetic passive aggressive BS.[/quote]





Well then HE shouldn't let these relatives live in HIS house

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303023]I'm sure they will have a ring eventually. But throughout history, the only good scrambling QB to win a super bowl was Steve Young. But he was one of the best qb's EVER (i think he's THE best). He could knock a can off someone's head at 50 yards away.[/quote]

Yes, I believe that he was the most complete QB.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;303028]Yes, I believe that he was the most complete QB.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you're scaring me. We see almost everything eye to eye.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303046]Dude, you're scaring me. We see almost everything eye to eye.[/quote]

UH, drugs are bad. Is that better?

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;303023]I'm sure they will have a ring eventually. But throughout history, the only good scrambling QB to win a super bowl was Steve Young. But he was one of the best qb's EVER (i think he's THE best). He could knock a can off someone's head at 50 yards away.[/QUOTE]

What about Elway? IMO, Elway is much better than Young...

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=Redskins8588;303067]What about Elway? IMO, Elway is much better than Young...[/quote]

yeah tjhat is bullshjit

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;303051]UH, drugs are bad. Is that better?[/QUOTE]

Did you take the place of Mr. Mackey? "Ummm, drugs are bad mmm kay."
Drugs are bad...I agree. Just not all of them are bad.
But that doesn't mean I won't dabble in a couple. haha. But yes, that's better.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;303067]What about Elway? IMO, Elway is much better than Young...[/QUOTE]


Nope, young was the best ever IMO.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303023]I'm sure they will have a ring eventually. But throughout history, the only good scrambling QB to win a super bowl was Steve Young. But he was one of the best qb's EVER (i think he's THE best). He could knock a can off someone's head at 50 yards away.[/quote]

I've had too many beers to make a good argument here, but there are several scrambling quarterbacks to win the superbowl and steve young isn't a top ten ever quarterback. best ever. no way.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

I raided your moms house...ohhh snappp

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;303077]I've had too many beers to make a good argument here, but there are several scrambling quarterbacks to win the superbowl and steve young isn't a top ten ever quarterback. no way.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with him on this...

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=Redskins8588;303080]I have to agree with him on this...[/quote]

You are both on the crazy horse!

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=angryssg;303092]You are both on the crazy horse![/quote]

Before I go to bed let me ask you to make your case that Steve Young is the greatest QB ever???? I doubt you will post a response because it's not possible without making a fool of yourself.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;303077]I've had too many beers to make a good argument here, but there are several scrambling quarterbacks to win the superbowl and steve young isn't a top ten ever quarterback. best ever. no way.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's the beer. Cause I'd like for you to name 10 QB's better.
Also, please name other scrambling qb's that have won a SuperBowl.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

Elway and Favre are scrambling quarterbacks just to start with recent champions.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=wilsowilso;303098]Before I go to bed let me ask you to make your case that Steve Young is the greatest QB ever???? I promise you will not post any response because it's not possible without making a fool of yourself.[/quote]

Never said best ever. I said most complete. Because he had the rare ability to read the defense make accurate throws both long and short. And had the ability to scramble. He has also won the big one. All of those make him the most complete. He could do it all. Is he the best ever? No, but he is up there.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=wilsowilso;303103]Elway and Favre are scrambling quarterbacks just to start with recent champions.[/quote]

They were not! Steve Young was in the same category speed wise as VY, and MV. I said same category, not as fast as.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

Vick is a lamer

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;303105]They were not! Steve Young was in the same category speed wise as VY, and MV. I said same category, not as fast as.[/QUOTE]

I wouldnt put Favre in that category but I most certainly would put Elway there. Again like you said not fast as but in the same category.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;303104]Never said best ever. I said most complete. Because he had the rare ability to read the defense make accurate throws both long and short. And had the ability to scramble. He has also won the big one. All of those make him the most complete. He could do it all. Is he the best ever? No, but he is up there.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention that he was throwing to the best WR ever to step foot on the field. That alone makes any average QB look good. Not saying that Young is average, he is above average but I just dont buy into his hype.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=Redskins8588;303108]I wouldnt put Favre in that category but I most certainly would put Elway there. Again like you said not fast as but in the same category.[/quote]

Was Elway ever the highest paid player in the league? I don't know I am just asking. Young was.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=angryssg;303110]Was Elway ever the highest paid player in the league? I don't know I am just asking. Young was.[/quote]

Welcome to when an argument turns to dust.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;303098]Before I go to bed let me ask you to make your case that Steve Young is the greatest QB ever???? I doubt you will post a response because it's not possible without making a fool of yourself.[/QUOTE]

How about the fact that Steve Young is the ALL TIME career leader in passer rating with a 96.8. He also had the single season record until Peyton beat him in 04.
By the way, Peyton's career passer rating is 93.5.
He led the league in completion percentage for 4 consecutive years. (94-97) Only Len Dawson with 6 consecutive years, did better.
He also had the 3rd best ever single season completion percentage 70.28 in 94.
He holds the record (tied) for most consecutive games with 300 or more passing yards. 6.
Tied for best all time in most seasons leading the league in touchdowns. 4. Including 3 consecutive seasons which is 2nd best all time.
2nd all time in most seasons leading the league in average gain. 5. And most consecutive seasons. 4.

How many qb's put up numbers like him...especially when you figure in he ran for 4239 yards, and 43 Rushing tds over his career?

Not including Tampa, the first year he was a full fledged starter in SF, he was an all pro...and went on to be an all pro for 7 consecutive seasons. (92-98) He played 3 games in 99 and retired. It's a shame he lost the majority of 5 seasons in SF as a backup, and started his career in tampa (2 years), otherwise his numbers would be astronomical.
He has all the tools. He is extremely accurate, had a strong arm, was very fast and could scramble with the best of them, and he found the endzone frequently. What more could you want...the man was a winner. Best ever.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303101]Yeah, it's the beer. Cause I'd like for you to name 10 QB's better.
Also, please name other scrambling qb's that have won a SuperBowl.
[/quote]


Roger Staubach. Two Super Bowl Victories. SI names him the 4th best scrambling QB of all time just behind Young at #3. That's 2 super bowl wins. Elway has two wins as well and yes he is also in SI's top ten scrambling QB's of all time.

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/30/gallery.scrambling/content.1.html]SI.com - Photo Gallery - Top 10 Scrambling QBs of the Modern Era[/url]

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=jsarno;303117]How about the fact that Steve Young is the ALL TIME career leader in passer rating with a 96.8. He also had the single season record until Peyton beat him in 04.
By the way, Peyton's career passer rating is 93.5.
He led the league in completion percentage for 4 consecutive years. (94-97) Only Len Dawson with 6 consecutive years, did better.
He also had the 3rd best ever single season completion percentage 70.28 in 94.
He holds the record (tied) for most consecutive games with 300 or more passing yards. 6.
Tied for best all time in most seasons leading the league in touchdowns. 4. Including 3 consecutive seasons which is 2nd best all time.
2nd all time in most seasons leading the league in average gain. 5. And most consecutive seasons. 4.

How many qb's put up numbers like him...especially when you figure in he ran for 4239 yards, and 43 Rushing tds over his career?

Not including Tampa, the first year he was a full fledged starter in SF, he was an all pro...and went on to be an all pro for 7 consecutive seasons. (92-98) He played 3 games in 99 and retired. It's a shame he lost the majority of 5 seasons in SF as a backup, and started his career in tampa (2 years), otherwise his numbers would be astronomical.
He has all the tools. He is extremely accurate, had a strong arm, was very fast and could scramble with the best of them, and he found the endzone frequently. What more could you want...the man was a winner. Best ever.[/quote]

Get em!

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;303103]Elway and Favre are scrambling quarterbacks just to start with recent champions.[/QUOTE]

Favre has never been a scrambling QB. In his CAREER he has 1774 yards, and only 13 rushing td's. He only averaged 3.37 yards per carry. Not a scrambler at all. Young averaged 5.87 yards per carry.
Elway was a good scrambler. Not what Young was, but he was good. 3407 career rushing yards, 33 tds rushings...of course he did it over more years than Young. He had a 4.40 rushing average which is respectable.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

I always thought FAVRE was more of a scrambling QB than I guess he was. He is great moving out of the pocket.

Re: One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police
 

[quote=wilsowilso;303120]Roger Staubach. Two Super Bowl Victories. SI names him the 4th best scrambling QB of all time just behind Young at #3. That's 2 super bowl wins. Elway has two wins as well and yes he is also in SI's top ten scrambling QB's of all time.

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/30/gallery.scrambling/content.1.html"]SI.com - Photo Gallery - Top 10 Scrambling QBs of the Modern Era[/URL][/quote]
I noticed that S Young was No. 3 on that list, which supports our argument.