Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Sammy Baugh Fan;311784]Want to learn fact? Read.
Don't let someone like this "teach" you about issues.
If you need this guy to tell you your opinion or what to think or what is "right"...you need serious help.

Problem is folks listen to this jerk and take it as truth because he has a big budget.[/quote]

That's the problem, most people don't seek out the facts in regard to issues like this. I'm not saying people should take his word as fact, but if it helps make someone curious and seek out more information then mission accomplished.

I don't see any difference between what he does and the lies that are fed to us by our own government. In the end both sides are on the far extreme side of things.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;311787]That's the problem, most people don't seek out the facts in regard to issues like this. I'm not saying people should take his word as fact, but if it helps make someone curious and seek out more information then mission accomplished.

I don't see any difference between what he does and the lies that are fed to us by our own government. In the end both sides are on the far extreme side of things.[/QUOTE]

So I wouldn't go see a Government movie about what I am looking for as facts.
His movies are one sided propoganda to gain HIM cash only.

Watch them as such
peace

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

its up to the people to do something. the way that happens is thru the vote. the people have given us a democratic majority for the first time since 1992. Michael Moore's job is not to fix what is broken, its just him shedding light on our great nations biggest problems. his movies are the real issues, not Iraq and illegal aliens

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Sammy Baugh Fan;311788]
His movies are one sided propoganda to gain HIM cash only.
[/quote]

If that was the case I doubt he'd give 60% to charity but whatever. Believe what you will.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Keep in mind the 60% that was given to charity was part of a negotiating tactic that Disney "forced" upon Miramax when they were arguing over distribution rights to the movie, to keep Miramax and Moore from really cashing in.

It wasn't some benevolent gesture by Moore

But you're right Matty, the idea is to use Moore's films to learn more about the issue at hand. Maybe you come out of it, after thoroughly researching through mediums other than Moore, that Moore is completely off-base in his assestment. But to Moore's credit, he at least gets you thinking

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

40% of multi millions is still money for lies bro and cashing in on the weak, poor and dying. Does that make it right he gives away 60% on 1/2 truths and "other" peoples pain and suffering?

Go make a movie on Darfur and give 60% away then feel good about yourself.

Go make a movie about rape victims and give 60% away.

Dewd, you could make a 60 minute movie pointing fingers with 1/2 facts and give 60% away. Does it make it worth merit?

peace

I know...3 months

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

I see your points Matty re: Moore's films making people learn more about whatever he shines his light on. I, however, am a skeptic and tend to think that Moore's movies only make those people who are already reading the papers to do additional thinking. I believe, perhaps incorrectly, that most people who see his films don't do a lick of additional research and simply take him at his word.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

I can definitely see how people dislike Moore, and while you shouldn't take everything he says to heart he gets a rise out of some big names which if nothing else is worth it. My main gripe is when people refuse to watch or read anything Michael Moore does then hate on him. At least know what you're hating on instead of blindly following Hannity.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Sammy Baugh Fan;311796]40% of multi millions is still money for lies bro and cashing in on the weak, poor and dying. Does that make it right he gives away 60% on 1/2 truths and "other" peoples pain and suffering?

Go make a movie on Darfur and give 60% away then feel good about yourself.

Go make a movie about rape victims and give 60% away.

Dewd, you could make a 60 minute movie pointing fingers with 1/2 facts and give 60% away. Does it make it worth merit?

peace

I know...3 months[/quote]

60% of net profits is a very generous donation. He shouldn't have to apologize for making money... people/companies capitalize at the expense of others every day, let's not make Moore out to be the devil here for making money off a movie he made.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;311798]My main gripe is when people refuse to watch or read anything Michael Moore does then hate on him. At least know what you're hating on instead of blindly following Hannity.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Can I get a waiver, however, for his new film? I've seen three of his films and feel competent to predict what his fourth film will look like. Hyperbole...blah, blah, blah...incoherent statement...blah, blah...funny joke...blah, blah...manipulation of facts...blah, blah...omission of key facts...blah, blah. By now, I think I can safely assume that he is good at making films that have a lot of laughs, but are very short on substance.

As for Moore making money off of his films, it's his right and I don't think he should be knocked for it. I think he can be knocked for basically churning out crappy, but funny, films that raise some interesting issues but make few noteworthy points. He can also be knocked for being the very thing he rails against (i.e., a person who believes that the ends justify the means, even if the means entail manipulation, lies, and deceit to attain widespread support among the public).

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=dmek25;311754]first off, what exactly is the cost of running an insurance company? it only takes a handful of non trained professionals to deny a claim. managed health care was thought up by a group of insurance companies to control costs, and make sure the profit margin is at its greatest. there should be no way an insurance company can deny someone coverage on a claim that is needed. but it happens all the time. when these companies start dictating to the medical profession what they can do, and what they can charge, thats the problem. i am for national healthcare. it cant possibly be any worse then it is now, and it will be cheaper[/quote]

Your knowledge of the industry is severely lacking, Dmek. Everything FRPLG said in response to you is true.

Directing your bitterness at the HMOs is misplaced anger. They are not the problem.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

all i know is that my brother in law went years never going to the doctor, never using any of his insurance " benefits". now, he gets very sick, to the point he undergoes a heart transplant. my sister and their family and now thousands in the hole, money owed to doctors because of squabbling over what gets paid, and what they owe. i might not have my facts in order, but i can still see whats right and whats wrong

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=dmek25;311811]all i know is that my brother in law went years never going to the doctor, never using any of his insurance " benefits". now, he gets very sick, to the point he undergoes a heart transplant. my sister and their family and now thousands in the hole, money owed to doctors because of squabbling over what gets paid, and what they owe. i might not have my facts in order, but i can still see whats right and whats wrong[/quote]

This is where things get personal, and I'm absolutely not going to take it there, only to say that a good portion of the problem stems from people not understanding the coverage provided by their healthcare plans. Many HMOs won't cover the most expensive procedures, and that's spelled out in their plan literature.

I certainly get that it feels "wrong." But the blame lies with the healthcare system in general, not with the HMO. The HMO is simply trying to operate within the flawed system. If the HMO paid the claim for the heart transplant procedure, they'd either have to charge a higher premium (one resembling a PPO's premium, which defeats the whole purpose of your bro having the HMO in the first place) or they'd go out of business.

It feels "wrong" because the fundamental belief at work here is that healthcare is a "right" as opposed to a "privelege." But the HMO isn't trying to deny someone their "right." They're simply trying to pay the bills. And no, their profit margins are not very high, just take a look at the trend in their stock prices.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Sammy Baugh Fan;311673]Subject matter aside that guy makes me sick. He's a jerk.
My Humble opinion.

You may now continue OnTopic.

peace[/quote]


couldnt agree more

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;311811]all i know is that my brother in law went years never going to the doctor, never using any of his insurance " benefits". now, he gets very sick, to the point he undergoes a heart transplant. my sister and their family and now thousands in the hole, money owed to doctors because of squabbling over what gets paid, and what they owe. i might not have my facts in order, but i can still see whats right and whats wrong[/QUOTE]

I can sympathize with this situation. My family has faced similar circumsatnces. But I feel what you are saying is basically this, and please correct me if I am wrong:

That because your brother was insured for years and rarely if ever used medical services,he had 'banked' services, or he deserved to have coverage since he had not used the insurance. Hein lies the problem. Insurance is not a fungible product. You don't bank it and you can't trade it for something. In this case simply being insured IS THE SERVICE. Whether you use the benefits of the service is irrelevant. He got exactly what he was supposed to get through the years. A big well funded company sitting there willing and able to pay for his policy defined covered benefits. The company being there is the service. Apparently his policy did not cover a needed heart transplant, which sucks beyond belief. That is the problem. Not that the insurance did not pay for the heart transplant but that the heart transplant is so damned expensive that the insurance company simply CANNOT cover heart transplants and provide affordable insurance. See the problem isn't with the insurance companies. Sure they have issues just like any multinational billion dollar industry but their problems are small and rather insignificant to this discussion. The problem is that healthcare is so damned expensive. That is not insurance industry's fault.

Now I'd love to discuss why healthcare is so expensive. I suspect we'd jive pretyy well on that. Or at least we'd be in agreement on some things.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Published on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 by Agence France Presse
US Health System Ranks Last Compared to Other Countries: Studies
WASHINGTON - The US health care system ranks last among other major rich countries for quality, access and efficiency, according to two studies released Tuesday by a health care think tank.

The studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that the United States, which has the most expensive health system in the world, underperforms consistently relative to other countries and differs most notably in the fact that Americans have no universal health insurance coverage.

“The United States stands out as the only nation in these studies that does not ensure access to health care through universal coverage and promotion of a ‘medical home’ for patients,” said Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis.

“Our failure to ensure health insurance for all and encourage stable, long-term ties between physicians and patients shows in our poor performance on measures of quality, access, efficiency, equity, and health outcomes.”

In “Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: An International Update on the Comparative Performance of American Health Care”, the study focused on interviews with physicians and patients in Australia, Britain, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and the United States who were asked to speak about their experiences and views on their health systems.

The US ranked last in most areas, including access to health care, patient safety, timeliness of care, efficiency and equity. Americans were also last in terms of whether they had a regular physician.

“The US spends twice what the average industrialized country spends on health care but we’re clearly not getting value for the money,” Davis told AFP.

She also noted that 45 million Americans, or 15 percent of the US population, have no health insurance, which contributes to the country’s medical woes.

The United States is also far behind in adopting modern health information technology, which translates into spiralling costs and poor care.

“We pride ourselves on being advanced on so many areas of technology but it’s not the case on health information technology,” Davis said. “Other countries have just moved ahead.”

Britain got the top score in overall ranking among the countries in the study, followed by Germany. New Zealand and Australia tied for third followed by Canada and the United States.

The second study delves into why health costs in the United States are so much higher than in eight other countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development: Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands and New Zealand.

The study, “Multinational Comparisons of Health Systems Data,” found that even though the US spends the most on publicly and privately financed health insurance, its citizens had the most potential years of life lost due to circulatory and respiratory diseases as well as diabetes.

“This study blows a lot of myths about the US health system,” Davis said. “We spend three times what the average country spends on a day of hospital care and we also spend twice what the average country spends on prescription medication.”

Health care is likely to be a prominent issue in the 2008 US presidential elections with various candidates already promising to tackle rising costs and the burden placed on big business to provide health insurance.

Copyright © 2007 Agence France Presse.

It seems to me that the larger issue is that we as Americans - who have the most expensive health care system in the history of the world - get less value for our dollar then other countries.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Regarding Moore, I don't understand why he is held to different standards of objectivity then any other mainstream media polemicist. It's not like he is trying to be Peter Jennings. Of course he selectively uses evidence to make his case. So do lots of people. If you wish to disagree with these arguments, do that, don't just say that you hate him and accuse him of being corrupt.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Regarding the above France Presse story, I am amazed that Britain ranks first. Anyone who watches Prime Minister's questions knows that complaints about the National Health are incessant. They have ridiculously long waits for common procedures and I suspect that the outcome of this study was fore-ordained. Think tanks and the like have agendas and their "studies" should be taken with a grain of salt.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

its not that i think he banked anything. it just seems like when you and your family are NOT in need of any care, everything is fine with the insurance company. but once you need them, they run and hide. New Orleans is a perfect example of this. and to say they cant pay for a procedure like a heart transplant is just plain crazy. if they cant, who can? now my sister and their family are probably going to be financially burdened for maybe the rest of their lives

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;311956]Regarding Moore, I don't understand why he is held to different standards of objectivity then any other mainstream media polemicist. It's not like he is trying to be Peter Jennings. Of course he selectively uses evidence to make his case. So do lots of people. If you wish to disagree with these arguments, do that, don't just say that you hate him and accuse him of being corrupt.[/QUOTE]

The problem with Moore is that he started out by presenting his arguments as authoratative "documentaries" - not "fact based", but "factual" documentaries.

Sure everybody now knows that he is simply a demagogue in the vein of Sharpton, who has an agenda (including his own aggrandizement) and who resorts to half truths, omissions and hyperbole. Originally, however, Moore presented himself, and allowed himself to be presented, as honestly portraying the facts of the subjects of his "documentaries". Go look up the Fahrenheit 911 thread - As I recall their were several defenders of Moore's "truth".

Sorry, Moore played the "I honestly portraying the facts" card and has since been called on it. He is in the same class as Sharpton, Limbaugh and others of that ilk and deserves to be reviled by any one who values honesty in approaching and solving the problems that confront us as a society.

As for being corrupt, I am not so much accusing him of being corrupt as dishonest in both his method and in his motives.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;311977]its not that i think he banked anything. it just seems like when you and your family are NOT in need of any care, everything is fine with the insurance company. but once you need them, they run and hide. New Orleans is a perfect example of this. and to say they cant pay for a procedure like a heart transplant is just plain crazy. if they cant, who can? now my sister and their family are probably going to be financially burdened for maybe the rest of their lives[/QUOTE]

The HMO can't b/c it didn't collect premiums for years based on supplying it or other catastrophic losses like that. If the HMO had rated its premium for those types of costs, your brother would have had [I]significantly[/I] higher premiums through the years. I pay for the most expensive family plan (a PPO) that my employer offers. It is significant expense BUT (having read the plan) it covers just about everything under the sun. The HMO offered by my employer costs about one-fifth the premium but simply doesn't provide enough coverage to make feel comfortable.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;311980]The problem with Moore is that he started out by presenting his arguments as authoratative "documentaries" - not "fact based", but "factual" documentaries.

Sure everybody now knows that he is simply a demagogue in the vein of Sharpton, who has an agenda (including his own aggrandizement) and who resorts to half truths, omissions and hyperbole. Originally, however, Moore presented himself, and allowed himself to be presented, as honestly portraying the facts of the subjects of his "documentaries". Go look up the Fahrenheit 911 thread - As I recall their were several defenders of Moore's "truth".

Sorry, Moore played the "I honestly portraying the facts" card and has since been called on it. He is in the same class as Sharpton, Limbaugh and others of that ilk and deserves to be reviled by any one who values honesty in approaching and solving the problems that confront us as a society.

As for being corrupt, I am not so much accusing him of being corrupt as dishonest in both his method and in his motives.[/QUOTE]

I think that sums it up excellently

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Being that I have Tri-care, and I'm in the Military, I can't judge on the Health care in the Nation. However, Michael Moore is no better than any other conman. But, what everyone seems to be forgetting is that he's making a movie about this, not taking it to court, not challenging anyone directly which tells me he's out to make a couple bucks doing this. Take it with a grain of salt. If our Health Care is that jacked up, this isn't the way to fix it.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[IMG]http://frontierwebdesign.com/passtheammo/images/temp/fat-bastard-michael-moore-s.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=hagams;312051]Being that I have Tri-care, and I'm in the Military, I can't judge on the Health care in the Nation. However, Michael Moore is no better than any other conman. But, what everyone seems to be forgetting is that he's making a movie about this, not taking it to court, not challenging anyone directly which tells me he's out to make a couple bucks doing this. Take it with a grain of salt. If our Health Care is that jacked up, this isn't the way to fix it.[/quote]

Well, making movies is what he does, he's not an attorney.

I really disagree that no change can come from a movie. Look at what 'Supersize Me' did to McDonald's. That movie put a lot of heat on McDonald's (even though they don't acknowledge it). Soon after that movie they cut the supersized meals from their menu and introduced healthier offerings. While I don't think that movie was soley responsible for the changes, it certainly had an impact.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Sammy Baugh Fan;312061][IMG]http://frontierwebdesign.com/passtheammo/images/temp/fat-bastard-michael-moore-s.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Nice, rather than debating the issues let's just cut to the lowest common denominator. Classy.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Mattyk72;312063]Well, making movies is what he does, he's not an attorney.

I really disagree that no change can come from a movie. Look at what 'Supersize Me' did to McDonald's. That movie put a lot of heat on McDonald's (even though they don't acknowledge it). Soon after that movie they cut the supersized meals from their menu and introduced healthier offerings. While I don't think that movie was soley responsible for the changes, [B]it certainly had an impact[/B].[/quote]

I have to disagree. I guarantee you McDonalds performed a business plan analysis on the healthier menu items, and projected out a pro forma financial projection, and it showed a positive bottom line. They made that move for one reason: money. They thought that adding those items would result in incremental revenue and profits to the firm. Adding apples and milk to the menu didn't cut into revenues from burgers, fries, and shakes. It added onto the existing cash flow.

Now, they may have spun the move as taking an active interest in the obesity epidemic in America, but as always, the real motivation was money.

Business is business. Michael Moore can shine all the light on things that he wants, but in the end, companies are going to do what's in the best interests of their shareholders.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Schneed10;312095]I have to disagree. I guarantee you McDonalds performed a business plan analysis on the healthier menu items, and projected out a pro forma financial projection, and it showed a positive bottom line. They made that move for one reason: money. They thought that adding those items would result in incremental revenue and profits to the firm. Adding apples and milk to the menu didn't cut into revenues from burgers, fries, and shakes. It added onto the existing cash flow.

Now, they may have spun the move as taking an active interest in the obesity epidemic in America, but as always, the real motivation was money.

Business is business. Michael Moore can shine all the light on things that he wants, but in the end, companies are going to do what's in the best interests of their shareholders.[/quote]

The timing of them pulling the supersize menu items is curious. Perhaps it had nothing to do with the movie, but I really doubt it. McDonald's obviously took notice of the movie and it's success, issuing press releases denouncing the film and they went as far as taking out full page newspaper ads and placing 30 second ad spots in the opening movie trailer section of the movie.

You're right about the money, the movie threatened to hit them where it hurts, the wallet, and they acted accordingly.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Mattyk72;312100]The timing of them pulling the supersize menu items is curious. Perhaps it had nothing to do with the movie, but I really doubt it. McDonald's obviously took notice of the movie and it's success, issuing press releases denouncing the film and they went as far as taking out full page newspaper ads and placing 30 second ad spots in the opening movie trailer section of the movie.

You're right about the money, the movie threatened to hit them where it hurts, the wallet, and they acted accordingly.[/quote]

That's true about pulling the supersize items. They saw ridiculous class action suits on the horizon, and rather than fight them, they eliminated the supersize items, thereby eliminating that income stream. But they compensated by offering the healthy items (milk, fruit) to add incremental revenue streams. Net effect of the moves as a whole was positive to the bottom line.

Good movie. But don't you find it curious that since that move by McDonald's, Burger King has pounced, adding more and more unhealthy choices to the menu? The BK Stacker, which came out recently, (oh my God that thing is so good) is advertised as simply MEAT AND CHEESE. It's a friggin heart attack on a bun. And yet Burger King is somehow getting off scott free for being so unhealthy for consumers.

That film was good, but seeing people go after McDonald's for it was completely unfair. McDonalds certainly felt it was unfair, but rather than fight the tide, they went with it and summoned the ingenuity to maintain their revenue stream in other ways. Meanwhile, Burger King is capitalizing on the opportunity to capture market share amongst consumers who want to eat a buttload of fries, regardless of how bad it is for you. You can't blame Burger King, they're not caught in the crosshairs of this movie, and there's an opportunity in front of them to make money. The real root problem? Americans simply have unhealthy eating habits. You shouldn't blame McDonald's, it's not their fault that people like to eat a buttload of french fries. The demand for unhealthy food is the problem, not the supply.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

JoeRedskin,

We're on the same page about Moore. I don't hold Michael Moore to a higher standard than that which I subject guys like Rush Limbaugh to. I think a lot of people who disdain Limbaugh for his political views harp on his dishonest protrayal of various issues, yet adore Michael Moore because they love his politics even though he is equally dishonest. I disdain both Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore for their political views and their dishonesty.

Matty,

I tend to agree with you that films can have a powerful impact on society and "documentaries" are no exception to that rule. If anything, I believe that documentaries can have a more powerful impact on people and society than mainstream feature films. BUT, that is what scares me. Instead of debating issues civilly and honestly, Americans politics (including Moore's films or Limbaugh's talk radio) are becoming highly partisan and devolving into mudslinging and intellectually dishonest monologues. Guys like Moore and Limbaugh polarize people and turn complex issues into very simple ones at the expense of full disclosure and honest examinations of important issues.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=dmek25;311740]ALL insurance companies have big time profit margins. should i start by posting links to the salaries of the ceos? insurance is almost bordering the pyramid schemes, where they want your money, but you play hell getting yours if something happens. if your looking for pity for the mega money insurance giants, your looking the wrong way. and this lies the problem. why should the same procedure have 3 different costs, for 3 different people/ its how they balloon their profits. no one in that business goes hungry. and the lobbyists in Washington are some of the richest, most powerful in the world.[/quote]
We all would probably admitt that CEO's pay is excessive in most industries and not just insurance. Why not post the profitts of the insurance co which would tell the true story. The Chinees have purchased some of the best Co's in Americia and there's a reason that they do not buy Ins. Co.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=djnemo65;311955]Published on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 by Agence France Presse
US Health System Ranks Last Compared to Other Countries: Studies
WASHINGTON - The US health care system ranks last among other major rich countries for quality, access and efficiency, according to two studies released Tuesday by a health care think tank.

The studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that the United States, which has the most expensive health system in the world, underperforms consistently relative to other countries and differs most notably in the fact that Americans have no universal health insurance coverage.

“The United States stands out as the only nation in these studies that does not ensure access to health care through universal coverage and promotion of a ‘medical home’ for patients,” said Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis.

“Our failure to ensure health insurance for all and encourage stable, long-term ties between physicians and patients shows in our poor performance on measures of quality, access, efficiency, equity, and health outcomes.”

In “Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: An International Update on the Comparative Performance of American Health Care”, the study focused on interviews with physicians and patients in Australia, Britain, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and the United States who were asked to speak about their experiences and views on their health systems.

The US ranked last in most areas, including access to health care, patient safety, timeliness of care, efficiency and equity. Americans were also last in terms of whether they had a regular physician.

“The US spends twice what the average industrialized country spends on health care but we’re clearly not getting value for the money,” Davis told AFP.

She also noted that 45 million Americans, or 15 percent of the US population, have no health insurance, which contributes to the country’s medical woes.

The United States is also far behind in adopting modern health information technology, which translates into spiralling costs and poor care.

“We pride ourselves on being advanced on so many areas of technology but it’s not the case on health information technology,” Davis said. “Other countries have just moved ahead.”

Britain got the top score in overall ranking among the countries in the study, followed by Germany. New Zealand and Australia tied for third followed by Canada and the United States.

The second study delves into why health costs in the United States are so much higher than in eight other countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development: Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands and New Zealand.

The study, “Multinational Comparisons of Health Systems Data,” found that even though the US spends the most on publicly and privately financed health insurance, its citizens had the most potential years of life lost due to circulatory and respiratory diseases as well as diabetes.

“This study blows a lot of myths about the US health system,” Davis said. “We spend three times what the average country spends on a day of hospital care and we also spend twice what the average country spends on prescription medication.”

Health care is likely to be a prominent issue in the 2008 US presidential elections with various candidates already promising to tackle rising costs and the burden placed on big business to provide health insurance.

Copyright © 2007 Agence France Presse.

It seems to me that the larger issue is that we as Americans - who have the most expensive health care system in the history of the world - get less value for our dollar then other countries.[/quote]
they state this "its citizens had the most potential years of life lost due to circulatory and respiratory diseases as well as diabetes" which is due to over weight which Americia has one of the biggest problems. They say our health care is failing. It seems as they only looked at raw numbers and did not figure in weight and those issue. Not a good source.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Schneed10;312112]That's true about pulling the supersize items. They saw ridiculous class action suits on the horizon, and rather than fight them, they eliminated the supersize items, thereby eliminating that income stream. But they compensated by offering the healthy items (milk, fruit) to add incremental revenue streams. Net effect of the moves as a whole was positive to the bottom line.

Good movie. But don't you find it curious that since that move by McDonald's, Burger King has pounced, adding more and more unhealthy choices to the menu? The BK Stacker, which came out recently, (oh my God that thing is so good) is advertised as simply MEAT AND CHEESE. It's a friggin heart attack on a bun. And yet Burger King is somehow getting off scott free for being so unhealthy for consumers.

That film was good, but seeing people go after McDonald's for it was completely unfair. McDonalds certainly felt it was unfair, but rather than fight the tide, they went with it and summoned the ingenuity to maintain their revenue stream in other ways. Meanwhile, Burger King is capitalizing on the opportunity to capture market share amongst consumers who want to eat a buttload of fries, regardless of how bad it is for you. You can't blame Burger King, they're not caught in the crosshairs of this movie, and there's an opportunity in front of them to make money. The real root problem? Americans simply have unhealthy eating habits. You shouldn't blame McDonald's, it's not their fault that people like to eat a buttload of french fries. The demand for unhealthy food is the problem, not the supply.[/quote]

BK is definitely snubbing their nose at the whole health movement. Sad enough, there's a market for that.

I agree that fast food places shouldn't be the one taking the majority of the blame. They are part of the problem, but we need to place more responsibility with the individual who chooses to make these poor decisions.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Mattyk72;312144]BK is definitely snubbing their nose at the whole health movement. Sad enough, there's a market for that.

I agree that fast food places shouldn't be the one taking the majority of the blame. They are part of the problem, but we need to place more responsibility with the individual who chooses to make these poor decisions.[/quote]

Oddly enough that ties right into the original topic of this thread... healthcare. If more Americans ate healthily, the cost of care would be lower for everybody.

Gotta love it when a tangent comes full circle.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Ahhh I feel complete now.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

time for a big mac?

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Who is it that offers the Lard-bowl? It's like a full bowl of mashed potato's, fried mystery meat, other asundry items in the Trans-fat Bonanza.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Hog1;312191]Who is it that offers the Lard-bowl? It's like a full bowl of mashed potato's, fried mystery meat, other asundry items in the Trans-fat Bonanza.[/quote]

Sounds like KFC.

I feel bloated just watching those commercials.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

I been trying to lose a little weight myself, and try not to look at that stuff

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Michael Moore is a waste of air