Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=70Chip;317065]You've stated it simply enough. What I don't understand is why there isn't a greater effort to explain it to the masses. You would think that since this ignorance causes so much chagrin in the scientific community that there would be a more user friendly approach. Sometimes I think they prefer to have something to rail against.

Here's a question I always had: Cell theory says that all cells are derived from other cells. There is no spontaneous generation. What about the first instance?[/quote]

really not my field, sorry :(. the beginning of everything is still VERY hypothetical and there are plenty of ideas, but not so much certainty.

natural selection, selective breeding, etc have been studied in the very long term though and are well understood.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=That Guy;317106]really not my field, sorry :(. the beginning of everything is still VERY hypothetical and there are plenty of ideas, but not so much certainty.

natural selection, selective breeding, etc have been studied in the very long term though and are well understood.[/quote]


Thanks anyways. BTW, long time no see post. Welcome Back.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;316907]Yup, I read the article. In fact, that's where I learned that the U.S. attracts more immigrants than all of the other nations on the earth ... combined.

You also made a good point about the lies, spying, etc. not being anything novel. I'm a strong advocate of civil rights, but, as a history major and history buff, I am very much aware that the lies, spying, etc. are nothing new. Crazyhorse, I don't think your assertion that Bush's actions (e.g. lying) are unprecedented is accurate. In fact, Bush's "trangressions against the Constitution" are relatively mild.

Consider, for a second, (1) The Alien & Sedition Acts made it unlawful to speak out against the government; (2) where blacks were 30 years ago, (3) that women were not allowed to vote or (in some states) own property until this century, (4) that FDR interned thousands of Japanese in prison camps during WWII (which makes Gitmo look like nothing), (5) FDR authorized the creation of military tribunals to try and execute Nazi terrorists, (6) FDR tried to "pack" the Supreme Court to get his policies approved by the Court (which makes the AUSA scandals look mild), (7) Lincoln [I]suspended habeas corpus [/I] to jail guys who simply spoke out against the civil war (See Ex Parte Milligan), and I could go on. I would think that, as a professor in a liberal arts school, you would know that Bush's actions aren't so unprecedented.

For some reason, when railing a agaist Bush, people pretend as though no politicians have ever lied to them, our history is spotless, and everything would be paradise but for Bush. It takes the word exaggeration to new levels. In fact, it kind of reminds me of Kim Jong-Il speeches about the "imperialist, capitalist, pure-evil, blood-sucking" United States."[/quote]

Your point is well taken and I am forced to agree that a case can be made that many of Bush's violations of Oath of Office, the Constitution, and international law, as well as his serial lying are not unprecedented. The McCarthy era, the Civil War (during which the City of New York actually fought a war against the United States over the draft), the Nixon era, Jefferson's nearly successful attempt at empire, Manifest Destiny, the Robber Barron era, etc. were all a threat to freedom and principles, as well as the desidera of irrational national phenomena.
Our country as conceived has teetered on the precipice a number of times. However, none of the above should make us easier on Bush, but rather harder. Nixon, FDR, Kennedy, Jefferson, Johnson and others got away with their crimes, which has only encouraged the tyranical behavior of present and furture Presidents.
The message we've continued to send chief executives and others in high office is that they can do whatever they want without paying for their crimes. Would there have been a Bush if Nixon had spent the jail time he deserved or FDR had to answer in court for imprisioning innocent people. I don't think so.
It's much worse to let top government officials get away with violating the law than other people. The guys at the top can hurt millions of people and plunge the nation into chaos, just the way this set of immoral lame brains has. They simply must obey the law and protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They are not kings, Dukes, or Earls.
There seems to be a lot of people who do not support the principles of America, its Bill of Rights, Constitution, its Democratic idealism and notions of equality before the law and open government, yet claim to love America. How can anyone love America without loving what America is and stands for. Worse, how can anyone love America without opposing those who do not support all of the above?
Is George Bush America? No, he is not. He does not support what America is all about; he opposes it. Right now, in fact, American is not America; it is something else. Until this criminal conspiracy that currently calls itself America is driven from America's body, there is no America. To support this thing that calls itself America is not patriotic. Patriots are busy trying to drive the demon out so the real America can return to consciousness.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[URL="http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Gallup_Majority_of_Republicans_doubt_evolution_0611.html"]http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Gallup_Majority_of_Republicans_doubt_evolution[/URL]
[URL="http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Gallup_Majority_of_Republicans_doubt_evolution_0611.html"]_0611.html[/URL]

Not a shock, merely the obvious, which backs up my view that the religious right, churchgoers or not, are very much driving the GOP, which has driven this war. 68% of Republicans doubt evolution. Same guys and gals who support torture, the Iraq invasion and occupation, doubt global warming, hate the U.N., think cluster bombing for children is OK, believe gays are unnatural, used to believe that slavery was supported by the Bible, equate the President with America and think liberals are unAmerican, in spite of the fact that the liberal creed is almost a celebration of the philosophy of Christ..

The religious right in America is as dangerous to freedom in America as the Islamic religious right continues to be in the Middle East. Further, the religious right in America is the spear carrier for the GOP and as such is at odds with Christian philosophy in regard to war, the poor, kindness, generousity, loving one's neighbors, the corrupting power of riches, the arrogance of punishment, the illusion of worldly success and temporal power, etc.

Bush is both a warning and a proof that this is true.

Just so you know: I've gone to almost very evangelical church in my area a number of times. I really enjoy the music and the whole energy of the scene. I like it. I was raised in it, and I enjoy it, as well as know it very well. I do not believe in it, since there's no reason to. I do, however, believe in the morality and wisdom of Christ's teachings. They weren't particularly original, of course, but I embrace most of them anyway.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=70Chip;317118]Thanks anyways. BTW, long time no see post. Welcome Back.[/quote]

yeah, joined the USAF... they, uh, don't give you a lot of free time or any kind of access the first few months. things should be a bit better now though.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;317481]yeah, joined the USAF... they, uh, don't give you a lot of free time or any kind of access the first few months. things should be a bit better now though.[/QUOTE]

The Air Force? Wow!

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;317481]yeah, joined the USAF... they, uh, don't give you a lot of free time or any kind of access the first few months. things should be a bit better now though.[/QUOTE]

that's pretty crazy TG... didn't see that one coming. was it something you were thinking about or was it spontaneous? not like joining up for a four year commitment is something most people do out of the blue, but my buddy did with the marines (at 27 years of age).

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=That Guy;317481]yeah, joined the USAF... they, uh, don't give you a lot of free time or any kind of access the first few months. things should be a bit better now though.[/quote]


Well Done. Now it's up, up and away into the wild blue yonder...

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

I get this thread now. The misperception that needed to be rooted out was that TG walked away from the game. Good to have ya back on board.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

been thinking about it for a bit. I'm be fixing/maintaining computer and electrical systems on planes in the near term, then we'll see what's next.

I did get a slingbox setup though, so i shouldn't miss any games.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

thatguy, welcome back. and thanks

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=70Chip;317065]Here's a question I always had: Cell theory says that all cells are derived from other cells. There is no spontaneous generation. What about the first instance?[/quote]
That is one reason why evolution is impossible.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;317711]That is one reason why evolution is impossible.[/QUOTE]


Here's a link to a Scientific American article from 2002 addressing a range of complaints/arguments against the theory of evolution. Check it out:

[URL="http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF&pageNumber=1&catID=2"]Sci American answers the creationists[/URL]


Welcome back, That Guy! Or is it Airman That Guy? That Air Guy?

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;317711]That is one reason why evolution is impossible.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it makes evolution impossible at all. It just doesn't explain how the first cell was "born." Do you reject evolution on scientific or religious grounds?

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=steveo395;317711]That is one reason why evolution is impossible.[/quote]

Evolution has nothing to do first cause and doesn't address the issue. Evolution kicks in after first cause or tenth cause or whatever.

Evolution, however, had been scientifically shown to be operative for hundreds of thousands of years and still operative today.

Creationism, on the other hand, is rendered ridiculous by arguments for first cause. If all things have to have a creator, who created the creator?

There are hypotheses about first cause but no "scientic" Theories about first cause because no "hypothesis" of first cause meets the criteria of the scientific method.

If this gives you comfort by offering the possibility that God was the first clause by a means yet unknown to science, then be comforted. There are myriad possibilities and science is young.

By its nature, science refuses to rule out possibilities. It's not your enemy. It's a tool. To take it as an enemy shows a misunderstanding of its nature and its utility.

If the rules of science and logic had been adhered to there would not now be a war in Iraq, nor would the principles of our country currently be under attack, which is my consistent point in this thread.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

Crazyhorse:

1. Would you like me to retitle this thread "Let's Impeach God"?

2. Will your next thread be obstensibly about the season finale of LOST, but in actuality you'll talk about how Jack's fragile relationship with his father is/was an allegory to the war in Iraq

3. Do you ever plan on actually discussing the Redskins here on this site?

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

With this whole subject between religion and science, I agree with Mr. Albert Einstein on the whole subject. He said, "[B]Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.[/B]" I agree I think that both kinda go hand in hand...

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

crazyhorse, why i share the same dislike for this administration( and bush in particular) this is a football site, first and foremost. its a turnoff to alot of us to high jack every thread and turn it into a bush should be in jail thread. if you are not interested in the football side of things, stick to the parking lot, and stay on topic

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;317785]crazyhorse, why i share the same dislike for this administration( and bush in particular) this is a football site, first and foremost. its a turnoff to alot of us to high jack every thread and turn it into a bush should be in jail thread. if you are not interested in the football side of things, stick to the parking lot, and stay on topic[/QUOTE]

Well said D. I would go one step further and say that I personally see no place here on this site for anyone who doesn't want to talk Redskins at all. I don't go to a Simpsons message board and start a bunch of "Should We Trade Betts?" threads. It makes no sense. I understand it's the off-season, and we do have the Parking Lot to expand our discussions beyond the Redskins. But, as dmek pointed out, this is a "Redskins Fan Forum." That is why we joined this site, that is why this site exists.

To act or think otherwise is, well...a misconception that should be rooted out.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;317788]Well said D. I would go one step further and say that I personally see no place here on this site for anyone who doesn't want to talk Redskins at all. I don't go to a Simpsons message board and start a bunch of "Should We Trade Betts?" threads. It makes no sense. I understand it's the off-season, and we do have the Parking Lot to expand our discussions beyond the Redskins. But, as dmek pointed out, this is a "Redskins Fan Forum." That is why we joined this site, that is why this site exists.

To act or think otherwise is, well...a misconception that should be rooted out.[/QUOTE]

Clever you are!

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=dmek25;317785]crazyhorse, why i share the same dislike for this administration( and bush in particular) this is a football site, first and foremost. its a turnoff to alot of us to high jack every thread and turn it into a bush should be in jail thread. if you are not interested in the football side of things, stick to the parking lot, and stay on topic[/quote]

I didn't high jack this thread. I started it. Also, check it out. This is the parking lot.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

have you ever joined a thread about the redskins? i hate bush also. everyone around here knows it. i just don't have to preach it every chance i get

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=JWsleep;317715]Here's a link to a Scientific American article from 2002 addressing a range of complaints/arguments against the theory of evolution. Check it out:

[URL="http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF&pageNumber=1&catID=2"]Sci American answers the creationists[/URL]


Welcome back, That Guy! Or is it Airman That Guy? That Air Guy?[/quote]

yeah its airman whatever, but i don't really care too much about that ;) I just want to stop running 4-5miles every other day in the mississippi heat. 95 with 95% humidity is harsh. I won't be here in august, but when the saints start playing you can get round trip bus fare and a game ticket etc for under 60$ through the base (keesler, in biloxi, 90minutes away from NO).

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;317737]I don't think it makes evolution impossible at all. It just doesn't explain how the first cell was "born." Do you reject evolution on scientific or religious grounds?[/quote]
both

[quote=Crazyhorse1;317769]Evolution has nothing to do first cause and doesn't address the issue. Evolution kicks in after first cause or tenth cause or whatever.[/quote]
You still need a first cause for evolution to work.

[quote=Crazyhorse1;317769]Evolution, however, had been scientifically shown to be operative for hundreds of thousands of years and still operative today.[/quote]
There are so many holes in the theory of evolution.

[quote=Crazyhorse1;317769]Creationism, on the other hand, is rendered ridiculous by arguments for first cause. If all things have to have a creator, who created the creator? [/quote]
I hate when people say this. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or evolution, something had to always be there. All matter in the entire universe would have to have always been there if you don't believe in God.

[quote=Crazyhorse1;317769]There are hypotheses about first cause but no "scientic" Theories about first cause because no "hypothesis" of first cause meets the criteria of the scientific method.

If this gives you comfort by offering the possibility that God was the first clause by a means yet unknown to science, then be comforted. There are myriad possibilities and science is young.

By its nature, science refuses to rule out possibilities. It's not your enemy. It's a tool. To take it as an enemy shows a misunderstanding of its nature and its utility.[/quote]
If it doesn't rule out possibilities, why are you ruling out God?

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=steveo395;317711]That is one reason why evolution is impossible.[/quote]

evolution has nothing to do with first instance, and flying spaghetti monster can be argued to be just as valid as creationism since neither relies on science, making it a pretty hard debate to argue.

unless everyone's playing out of the same rulebook there's really nothing to say. But the implied "i'm right because i said so" thing that happens here so often doesn't really advance the conversation.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=steveo395;317836]both


You still need a first cause for evolution to work.[/quote]

says who? you? and why is your "theory" superior? why should we assume you're right until proven wrong without seeing any evidence for your opinion? what if we flip it and give you the burden of proof?


[quote]There are so many holes in the theory of evolution.[/quote]generic and vague. do you have any examples?

[quote]
I hate when people say this. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or evolution, something had to always be there. All matter in the entire universe would have to have always been there.[/quote]says who? your "theory" of the world and everything in it? what research have you done to come to this conclusion, and why does is all the other work based on real science automatically get discounted just because you're not happy with their best guess?


hope that doesn't come off too harsh, it's not intended to, but they are fair questions to ask.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;317808]I didn't high jack this thread. I started it. Also, check it out. This is the parking lot.[/QUOTE]

Well, first of all I blame myself as a mod for not locking this thread down right away. You had already started an anti-Bush thread with "Let's Impeach the President" then you started this one under the guise of it being about creationism vs. evolution (though I think that thread has been done before) yet really all you meant it to be was another Bush bashing/anti War in Iraq thread. And for the record, this has nothing to do with the fact that you started two separate threads about Bush, it has to do with the fact that you started two separate threads with the same theme.

Furthermore, on behalf or all the mods I'd like to make it clear to everyone that "This is the Parking Lot" "It's off topic" are increasingly tired excuses. The rules of this site apply to every forum, not just the locker room.

Would any mod care to expand?

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=That Guy;317838]says who? you? and why is your "theory" superior? why should we assume you're right until proven wrong without seeing any evidence for your opinion? what if we flip it and give you the burden of proof?[/quote]
So your saying that you don't need a first organism for evolution to work? It had to start somewhere. At some point, life had to start from non-life.

[quote=That Guy;317838]generic and vague. do you have any examples?[/quote]
Many holes in the fossil record and natural selection has never been shown to create a different species

[quote=That Guy;317838]says who? your "theory" of the world and everything in it? what research have you done to come to this conclusion, and why does is all the other work based on real science automatically get discounted just because you're not happy with their best guess?[/quote]
Ok, then I guess matter just appeared from nowhere, which goes against the laws of physics. Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed. They can only change forms.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

And there has already been a thread about creationism vs. evolution and I really don't feel like going through the same thing over again. I'm going to bed.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

I hate when people say this. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or evolution, something had to always be there. All matter in the entire universe would have to have always been there if you don't believe in God.

This does not take into account, anti-matter............illogical
--Mr. Spock

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=steveo395;317840]So your saying that you don't need a first organism for evolution to work? It had to start somewhere. At some point, life had to start from non-life.[/quote]

and you've decide not to show any proof that you're opinion has any more merit than anyone else's. i'll respond to the rest in a bit, but why are you so convinced scientific study is clearly 100% wrong here?


[quote]Many holes in the fossil record and natural selection has never been shown to create a different species[/quote]wow, i asked for something that's not vague, and i get a vague and cryptic response. which holes in the fossil record are these? and who said anything about different species. Natural selection is more about adaptation, evolution is about separating species... but in the current issues of sciam ([URL="http://www.sciam.com%29"]www.sciam.com)[/URL], it talks about recovered collagen from a T-Rex being identical to that found in chickens, helping further aid the already widely accept thought that some species (not necessarily T-Rex) evolved along that path. That's just the most recent example, but there are thousands of others.

[quote]Ok, then I guess matter just appeared from nowhere, which goes against the laws of physics. Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed. They can only change forms.[/quote]look, a hammer is a great tool, but it's not meant to be used with screws. evolution and origin are completely separate ideas. not only are you mixing up theories, you're arguing a point that no one ever made, unless you care to show me where anyone said anything about evolution breaking the laws of physics.

It seems like you're trying to debate theories you've never bothered to read, since the big bang, string theory, etc etc don't have matter coming from out of nowhere, so i have no idea what you're even trying to argue with that.

first origin is mainly thought to have occurred through somewhat random chance by either the replicator or membrane theory, both of which are fully explained, along with possible limitations in great depth on SciAm ( [URL="http://www.sciam.com"]Science and technology information from Scientific American[/URL] -- great magazine, btw) if you care to learn more about them.


"Popular, palatable views of the world and how it came to be do not constitute science or truth. But decent science education requires that we share the truth we find -- whether or not we like it." ---Lynn Margulis, Distinguished Professor, University of Massachusetts Amherst.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

Evolution is a simple and elegant. It's that simple. There are no holes in it and the reason it can't be proven without a doubt is because of the time scale it operates on. It most certainly makes more sense than, say, being created from mud.

If you take a bunch of mice into a lab for 25 years and intrude mutations to successive generation's gene pool you would almost certainly have a different breed of mice. And while these mutation might not drastically alter the mice to the extent that they become a different species they would most certainly be different from the mice that were not in the control group. Now if you do this over 1000 years they would most certainly be classified as different species. This is evolution, this is real and can not be dismissed so easily.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=That Guy;318084]and you've decide not to show any proof that you're opinion has any more merit than anyone else's. i'll respond to the rest in a bit, but why are you so convinced scientific study is clearly 100% wrong here?[/quote]
What are you talking about? Are you saying that evolution never had a start. It had to start somewhere. I know that how the first organism formed doesn't really have anything to do with with organisms evolving, but at some point, that first organism had to form where there was no life. That is not my opinion. That would have to be a fact for evolution to be true.

[quote=That Guy;318084]wow, i asked for something that's not vague, and i get a vague and cryptic response. which holes in the fossil record are these? and who said anything about different species. Natural selection is more about adaptation, evolution is about separating species... but in the current issues of sciam ([URL="http://www.sciam.com%29"]www.sciam.com)[/URL], it talks about recovered collagen from a T-Rex being identical to that found in chickens, helping further aid the already widely accept thought that some species (not necessarily T-Rex) evolved along that path. That's just the most recent example, but there are thousands of others.[/quote]
I already debated all this crap [URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/redskins-warpath-parking-lot/16682-civil-discussion-about-religion.html?highlight=evolution"]here[/URL]. I don't feel like doing it again.

[quote=That Guy;318084]look, a hammer is a great tool, but it's not meant to be used with screws. evolution and origin are completely separate ideas. not only are you mixing up theories, you're arguing a point that no one ever made, unless you care to show me where anyone said anything about evolution breaking the laws of physics.

It seems like you're trying to debate theories you've never bothered to read, since the big bang, string theory, etc etc don't have matter coming from out of nowhere, so i have no idea what you're even trying to argue with that.

first origin is mainly thought to have occurred through somewhat random chance by either the replicator or membrane theory, both of which are fully explained, along with possible limitations in great depth on SciAm ( [URL="http://www.sciam.com"]Science and technology information from Scientific American[/URL] -- great magazine, btw) if you care to learn more about them.


"Popular, palatable views of the world and how it came to be do not constitute science or truth. But decent science education requires that we share the truth we find -- whether or not we like it." ---Lynn Margulis, Distinguished Professor, University of Massachusetts Amherst.[/quote]
I never said evolution breaks the laws of physics. I said matter forming from no where breaks the laws of physics. You asked who created God. I said he has just always been there and that matter would have had to have always been there if God didn't exist. And if it hasn't always been there, which I guess is what your saying since you were disagreeing with me, then something had to have created it. Matter does not appear out of nothing. That breaks the laws of physics.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;318123]I never said evolution breaks the laws of physics. I said matter forming from no where breaks the laws of physics. You asked who created God. I said he has just always been there and that matter would have had to have always been there if God didn't exist. And if it hasn't always been there, which I guess is what your saying since you were disagreeing with me, then something had to have created it. Matter does not appear out of nothing. That breaks the laws of physics.[/QUOTE]

So you don't dispute the theory of evolution, you just think that God created the universe?

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;318238]So you don't dispute the theory of evolution, you just think that God created the universe?[/quote]

According to all the "laws" of physics I know, matter can spring from nothing as easily as God can spring from nothing. However, evolution doesn't address itself to the evolution of God (if there is such a thing as an evolving God) anymore than it has anything to say about how something evoluted from nothing.

Darwin didn't know how something sprang from nothing and never said he did. Nor do any of us know the answer to that question, for sure. Nor do we know or have any accepted theories about how evolution relates to first cause or not. Was first cause a sudden event or did first cause involve a process of what we now call "nothing" evolving into something?

To expect the theory of evolution to explain the origin of life or matter is asking way too much for a fairly modest theory that explains how species evolve, not how things come into existence. Creationists , being concerned with creation, tend to think evolutionists have the same concern. They don't.

Thus it appears to Creationists that there holes in the Theory. There aren't. The so called "holes" in evolution are only answers about God and Creation that they think should be there and aren't. Properly understood, there is absolutely nothing in evolution that indicates whether there's a God or not, or even speculates about how matter or life came into existence. The major problem is one of education. Creationists don't seem to know what they're talking about when they're talking about science.

The result of the above is one worth remarking on. For the most part, only Creationists who are looking for final answers have their faith tested by the Theory of Evolution. On the other hand, most people I know who accept evolution find enough room in it to accommodate God.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;318238]So you don't dispute the theory of evolution, you just think that God created the universe?[/quote]
When did I say I didn't dispute the theory of evolution?

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

I believe in flying spaghetti monsters

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[quote=steveo395;318123]What are you talking about? Are you saying that evolution never had a start. It had to start somewhere. I know that how the first organism formed doesn't really have anything to do with with organisms evolving, but at some point, that first organism had to form where there was no life. That is not my opinion. That would have to be a fact for evolution to be true.


I already debated all this crap [URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/redskins-warpath-parking-lot/16682-civil-discussion-about-religion.html?highlight=evolution"]here[/URL]. I don't feel like doing it again.


I never said evolution breaks the laws of physics. I said matter forming from no where breaks the laws of physics. You asked who created God. I said he has just always been there and that matter would have had to have always been there if God didn't exist. And if it hasn't always been there, which I guess is what your saying since you were disagreeing with me, then something had to have created it. Matter does not appear out of nothing. That breaks the laws of physics.[/quote]


did you even read my post? I mean any of it? evolution SAYS NOTHING about first origin. Evolution isn't concerned about it and was never meant to address it, so, once again, i have no idea why you keep trying to harp on that.

As for theories of first origin, i'm not an expert on it, but i linked the two main theories about the creation of first life, and the theories on the creation of everything are numerous but trivial to find, and once again, NONE of them insist on matter coming out of nowhere even though you seem to think they do (even after being corrected), which means you either haven't read them, don't understand them, or don't care. Either way, mis-stating facts repeatedly really drops credibility.

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;318342]When did I say I didn't dispute the theory of evolution?[/QUOTE]

You didn't, I just noticed the dispute was about how life started and not really about evolution. After reading your other posts in the other thread you hyperlinked, I know that you dispute the theory of evolution.

I do have to ask a few questions, especially since I did not have the chance to participate in the other thread. First, do you dispute the fact that the earth is more than a few thousand years old? Second, do you believe that every species that is alive today was alive at "the" beginning? Or, do you believe that X species did not exist one day and then poof...it appeared by the hand of God in an instant.