Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

and good point by irish. if Betts starts fumbling again, Gibbs will have him carry less and less

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=hooskins;323537]I think the key to having Portis lead our team in rushing is to rush Betts more often. If Portis gets 30+ touches a game I am pretty sure he will go down half way through the season, but if you keep Portis around 15-20 carries and Betts at about 5-10 I think that is a good formula for a successful and injury free season.

Thoughts?[/quote]On a single season basis, it doesn't make a huge difference.

But this is becoming absolutely critical to extending Portis' career. Keep him under 350 carries this year. At age 26 now, if Portis continues to be used at 2005 levels, hes going to continue to have 2006 kind of health.

You still want him to touch it about 20 times every week, but you definatly want to use some other players when the situation isnt as crucial.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Before CP got the freakish injury in preseason last year, how many of us truly thought that he would break down during the season? Had he shown that in 2005 when he carried the team on his back late in the season right to the 2nd round of the playoffs? Or in 2004? Can't seem to remember that being the general consensus around 'Skin fans. Now all of a sudden, CP is injury prone, and is not able to handle the load. Are you serious? Cp is going to return to form and dominate. My prediction is we'll be riding his 1600+ yds from scrimage to the playoffs

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Portis will gain more, say maybe 500-600 more yards IMHO. I saythat as I can see CP go down with an injury around week 10-11.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Portis definitely should see the ball less than in 05. The good thing about that is Betts earned some carries this year for 07- he deserves to get the ball at least 10 times a game.
I wonder if Blalock can earn some time as the 3rd down back? If Portis & Betts split a lot of carries, I wouldn't be surprised to see Blalock used a bit even if LB & CP are healthy, since he knows the offense well & I recall reading that he's a decent pass protector.

However they do it, I don't care, just don't overwork any one of these guys till crunch time.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Since I don't have a magic ball. I'm hoping both have a REALLY STRONG SEASON.

CP needs to make this a statement season,being this COULD be his last IMO! LB coming off a GREAT year, needs to hold on to the football, and I believe he will.

What a great position to be in at RB if both can stay healthy. Let's not forget about the addition of Blaylock, nice depth at RB and Teams.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

I hope that we limit Portis's carries the first 1/2 of the season, lower then he has ever had.

I would be thrilled to see Portis enter the next offseason injury-free...

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=Mattyk72;323530]Seems strange to predict injuries... but hey whatever gets you through the offseason I guess.

I think CP will come back strong this year. I think he'll be determined to get back on track, and Saunders will ease his workload by giving Betts more work.[/quote]

I also think that CP will come on strong this year, but I have disagree.

It isn't strange to predict injuries.

I can say right now that I expect Shawn Springs to get hurt some time during the year. Outside of the Skins, I expect that Donavan McNabb goes down at some point this year.

Do I think that Portis will avoid the injury bug all year? No. As a matter of fact, I think that it should be easy to predict that. He is coming off of shoulder surgery and is the kind of guy who loves to slam his shoulders into other guys without regard for his own health. That is why I love him, but that is what scares me. I see him playing most of the games, but playing a hurt a lot and missing a couple. With some luck, next year he will be full strength for the whole season IMHO.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Just joined the board. Good to be here.

CP is one of the five best backs in the league IMO. He was a slasher in Denver, and then he basically reinvented himself when he arrived in Washington. He became a power back who still has the speed to get to the outside. Clinton will have a monster season this year. I'm guessing he and Ladell will be used much like Holmes and Johnson were. Clinton gets two series, then Ladell gets one.

Alot of what happens with CP and LB will depend on Jason Campbell. People talk about how great Betts was last year, but the running game didn't really take off until Gibbs put Campbell in. Nobody respected Brunell's ability to push the ball downfield, and as a result neither Portis nor Betts really put up great numbers behind him. (Except for CP's dominance against Jacksonville.) Campbell comes in, they're going deep four or five times a game, and all of a sudden Betts is running wild. I get goosebumps when I think of the kind of numbers a healthy Clinton Portis could have put up in the 2nd half last year. Here's to him doing it in 07.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=81+83+84=Posse;323719]Just joined the board. Good to be here.

CP is one of the five best backs in the league IMO. He was a slasher in Denver, and then he basically reinvented himself when he arrived in Washington. He became a power back who still has the speed to get to the outside. Clinton will have a monster season this year. I'm guessing he and Ladell will be used much like Holmes and Johnson were. Clinton gets two series, then Ladell gets one.

Alot of what happens with CP and LB will depend on Jason Campbell. People talk about how great Betts was last year, but the running game didn't really take off until Gibbs put Campbell in. Nobody respected Brunell's ability to push the ball downfield, and as a result neither Portis nor Betts really put up great numbers behind him. (Except for CP's dominance against Jacksonville.) Campbell comes in, they're going deep four or five times a game, and all of a sudden Betts is running wild. I get goosebumps when I think of the kind of numbers a healthy Clinton Portis could have put up in the 2nd half last year. Here's to him doing it in 07.[/quote]


Welcome to the board... very cool name... you must have been on this type of thing before.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Fact: regardless of rushing yardage last season, the few games that CP did play in, he was in the top three in the league in scoring and they almos all came on the big play. He is still the man. Betts has had 1 count it 1 healthy season. He is nothing more than a breath of fresh air for CP until he can prove that he can do it week in and week out, season in and season out.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Yeah, it is a total crap shoot. I hope I am wrong about CP and the week 10-11 thing, but I just see him getting brutally punished this season. I mean we do play 9 playoff teams this year, and the prognosticators aren't showing any love. I just got a look at Lindy's Pro Football preseason issue.. WE get 3rd in the division. Street and Smith also has us 3rd. Sporting News and Athlons both have us last. I sure hope Saunders offense clicks with our guys, so we can show all these sportswriters up.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;323523]why is that a big if.[/quote]

Cause his knee is already bothering him and it's not even training camp. I don't think CP is going to play all 16 games and that is why I am sooooo glad we hung on to Betts.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=81+83+84=Posse;323719]Just joined the board. Good to be here.

CP is one of the five best backs in the league IMO. He was a slasher in Denver, and then he basically reinvented himself when he arrived in Washington. He became a power back who still has the speed to get to the outside. Clinton will have a monster season this year. I'm guessing he and Ladell will be used much like Holmes and Johnson were. Clinton gets two series, then Ladell gets one.

Alot of what happens with CP and LB will depend on Jason Campbell. People talk about how great Betts was last year, but the running game didn't really take off until Gibbs put Campbell in. Nobody respected Brunell's ability to push the ball downfield, and as a result neither Portis nor Betts really put up great numbers behind him. (Except for CP's dominance against Jacksonville.) Campbell comes in, they're going deep four or five times a game, and all of a sudden Betts is running wild. I get goosebumps when I think of the kind of numbers a healthy Clinton Portis could have put up in the 2nd half last year. Here's to him doing it in 07.[/quote]

Welcome to the board and you bring up a great point. Did anyone else notice that once JC took over the running game just totally took off? I think some of it was better blocking but I would bet that we no longer had 9 guys lurking around the LOS. I can remember very well the 1st games against Dallas, NYG and Philly and we just could not back guys off the line. The defenses just did not respect our deep passing game and would just dare us to throw it deep. I think if CP had been healthy he would have just exploded towards the end of last year.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Did I miss something? When did Portis become brittle?

I guess that everyone has forgotten that a freak hand injury ended Portis' season. I don't label someone as injury prone when they were extremely productive with a bad shoulder and were shut down because their hand was broken.

Clinton Portis is by far the best runningback on the team. He runs harder than Betts and he holds onto the ball.

Case closed.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

I always liked how Betts ran but he just seems to be one of those guys that will never get his big chance.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;323893]Did I miss something? When did Portis become brittle?

I guess that everyone has forgotten that a freak hand injury ended Portis' season. I don't label someone as injury prone when they were extremely productive with a bad shoulder and were shut down because their hand was broken.

Clinton Portis is by far the best runningback on the team. He runs harder than Betts and he holds onto the ball.

Case closed.[/quote]


Thank you Grim.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Portis is definitely the number one back and should get majority of the carries and touchdowns. But Sanders needs to find a way to allow Betts to contribute to the offense. He is a very good back and can exploit the opponent in ways Portis cannot. Betts is a better receiver than Portis and runs some of the power running plays better than Portis.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Hopefully they complement each other, Betts is quicker to the hole and hits it with more power, Portis is more of a finesse type back, and a home run hitter, Portis needs to shed some weight and get back the agility he has lost since he decieded to bulk up he will never be a power back.

I could see at some point Betts becoming a first and second down back depending on what we do first down, and allow Portis to be more of a third down back, although he would be more than your usual third down type back because his running abilities are better than the usual 3rd down speedster. Perhaps the sharing of the work load will serve to keep the both of them healthy, remember Betts has had a history of injuries before last season, which is IMO opinion the only thing that has held him back from being a top back in the league.

All said and done, I feel Betts will get more yards I believe the coaches will stick with Portis early, but Betts will eventually force their hand for his ability to move the chains on a cinsistant basis.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Although i hate the problem of having countless number of threads about which of our talented RBs is better, it is still a very good problem to have.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

My numbers are:

Portis 280 ATT 1300 YDS 8TD 15 REC 175 YDS

Betts 135 ATT 650 YDS 8TD 40 REC 400 YDS

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=70Chip;324069]My numbers are:

Portis 280 ATT 1300 YDS 8TD 15 REC 175 YDS

Betts 135 ATT 650 YDS 8TD 40 REC 400 YDS[/quote]


add 250 yards rushing and 6 tds to Portis.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=offiss;324022]Hopefully they complement each other, Betts is quicker to the hole and hits it with more power, Portis is more of a finesse type back, and a home run hitter, Portis needs to shed some weight and get back the agility he has lost since he decieded to bulk up he will never be a power back.

I could see at some point Betts becoming a first and second down back depending on what we do first down, and allow Portis to be more of a third down back, although he would be more than your usual third down type back because his running abilities are better than the usual 3rd down speedster. Perhaps the sharing of the work load will serve to keep the both of them healthy, remember Betts has had a history of injuries before last season, which is IMO opinion the only thing that has held him back from being a top back in the league.

All said and done, I feel Betts will get more yards I believe the coaches will stick with Portis early, but Betts will eventually force their hand for his ability to move the chains on a cinsistant basis.[/quote]


How is Betts quicker than Portis? Portis is a home run threat. Last year was a tale of two running games. Betts was able to run in the downhill offense. Portis ran in the poodle offense.

If the roles were reversed last year (meaning Betts started the year and Portis finished it) Betts would have struggled big time. Portis would have scored at least twice as many TD's as Betts. One, Portis is much better in space and two, he wouldn't have fumbled as many times and would have finished off those drives instead of handing the ball (and games) away.

I also disagree that Betts is a more powerful runner than Portis. He does not get as low. Portis isn't a power back? Rewind to the last 6 games of '05 and try again.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;324376]How is Betts quicker than Portis? Portis is a home run threat. Last year was a tale of two running games. Betts was able to run in the downhill offense. Portis ran in the poodle offense.

If the roles were reversed last year (meaning Betts started the year and Portis finished it) Betts would have struggled big time. Portis would have scored at least twice as many TD's as Betts. One, Portis is much better in space and two, he wouldn't have fumbled as many times and would have finished off those drives instead of handing the ball (and games) away.

I also disagree that Betts is a more powerful runner than Portis. He does not get as low. Portis isn't a power back? Rewind to the last 6 games of '05 and try again.[/QUOTE]

I will explain it for you, there is a difference between speed and quickness, Betts gets the ball full speed and drills the hole faster than Portis, making life easier for the guys blocking up front they don't have to hold their blocks as long.

As far as power between the 2, your delusional if you think Portis is as strong as Betts.

I am pretty tired of all these excuses for Portis, like the only reason Betts outperformed him is because he was allowed to run downhill? That is a big joke! We ran downhill with Betts because we could with him, because of the reasons I stated above, we didn't with Portis because he is to slow looking for the hole, and to weak to run people over. The running game didn't change because we called different play's, it changed because we put a back in there that could handle a downhill running game which Portis is not, a downhill runner.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

I'll make no excuses for Portis. has Betts ever had a 1500 yard season? has Betts ever had a double digit season of touchdowns? Betts is a decent back up. period. has Portis ever had a fumble that has cost us a game? has Betts ever had a run of longer then 20 yards? Portis is by far the quicker of the 2 backs. and Betts isn't the power back that some around here think he is.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

the next you will be saying is that mike espy is as good as santana moss. come on, wake up alittle

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Betts quicker than Portis at what? Fumbling? Yes fumbling.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=offiss;324382]I will explain it for you, there is a difference between speed and quickness, Betts gets the ball full speed and drills the hole faster than Portis, making life easier for the guys blocking up front they don't have to hold their blocks as long.

As far as power between the 2, your delusional if you think Portis is as strong as Betts.

I am pretty tired of all these excuses for Portis, like the only reason Betts outperformed him is because he was allowed to run downhill? That is a big joke! We ran downhill with Betts because we could with him, because of the reasons I stated above, we didn't with Portis because he is to slow looking for the hole, and to weak to run people over. The running game didn't change because we called different play's, it changed because we put a back in there that could handle a downhill running game which Portis is not, a downhill runner.[/quote]


Like I said before. Look at the end of the '05 season and then come talk to me.

Excuses for Portis? What was Betts' excuse for fumbling multiple games away? It was a miracle that none of his [B]three[/B] fumbles agains Carolina were recovered or that would have been another game that he lost for us.

Great backs don't fumble three times in a season let alone one game.

I have said it before. If Betts is our starter for the majority of this upcoming season we will be staring 6-10 right in the face.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Fumbling can be corrected (hopefully). The thing that seperates Portis from Betts is tenacity. Portis runs like that extra inch is going to save his life. Betts runs hard and fast but seems to let the play die just a little bit before it's actually over.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Make Betts hold the ball like Tiki.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;324388]I'll make no excuses for Portis. has Betts ever had a 1500 yard season? has Betts ever had a double digit season of touchdowns? Betts is a decent back up. period. has Portis ever had a fumble that has cost us a game? has Betts ever had a run of longer then 20 yards? Portis is by far the quicker of the 2 backs. and Betts isn't the power back that some around here think he is.[/QUOTE]

It's this simple all you have to do is take a look at yards per carry, Betts is much better than Portis, Betts would have easily surpassed 1500 yds last season if he started the whole year, he hasen't had the carries, but when he has had the carries he has been better than Portis.

Betts has averaged 4.3 yds as a skin, Portis is 4.0.

Keep in mind that Betts earned those yards moving the chains on a consistant basis, that is not Portis's game.

Last season was the first season Betts had more than 90 carries and he responded with a 4.7 yds per carry, much better than Portis's 4.1.


Betts has had many runs over 20 yds I don't know where your going with that one?

It's this simple, Betts is quicker to the hole than Portis.

Portis is better than Betts in 1 area and that is the big play, he has more speed than Betts to hit the long run.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;324409]Like I said before. Look at the end of the '05 season and then come talk to me.

Excuses for Portis? What was Betts' excuse for fumbling multiple games away? It was a miracle that none of his [B]three[/B] fumbles agains Carolina were recovered or that would have been another game that he lost for us.

Great backs don't fumble three times in a season let alone one game.

I have said it before. If Betts is our starter for the majority of this upcoming season we will be staring 6-10 right in the face.[/QUOTE]

Well we have for the most part been staring at that record with Portis in there.

I am sorry you make a lot of refrences to fumbling games away as if Portis hasen't done that to us, perhaps YOU should go look at some of the past game film and see Portis's mishaps as well. The first 2 seasons he has 8 fumbles losing 6 of them, 4 in 2004, so I guess we are in agreement Portis is not a great back. Betts has had 8 fumbles in 5 seasons for us, Portis 6 in three, I do believe you will find that Portis averages more fumbles per season than Betts.

2005 season? Why not look at the end of the 2006 season where Betts was running better than Portis ever has for us?

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=offiss;324500]Well we have for the most part been staring at that record with Portis in there.

I am sorry you make a lot of refrences to fumbling games away as if Portis hasen't done that to us, perhaps YOU should go look at some of the past game film and see Portis's mishaps as well. The first 2 seasons he has 8 fumbles losing 6 of them, 4 in 2004, so I guess we are in agreement Portis is not a great back. Betts has had 8 fumbles in 5 seasons for us, Portis 6 in three, I do believe you will find that Portis averages more fumbles per season than Betts.

2005 season? Why not look at the end of the 2006 season where Betts was running better than Portis ever has for us?[/quote][URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb.php"]Ladell Betts 2006 DVOA: 7.7%[/URL] (above league average)
[URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb2005.php"] Clinton Portis 2005 DVOA: 10.0%[/URL] (above league average)

Conclusion: Portis 2005>Ladell Betts ever.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

thank you to the voice of reason

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[QUOTE]The first 2 seasons he has 8 fumbles losing 6 of them, 4 in 2004, so I guess we are in agreement Portis is not a great back. Betts has had 8 fumbles in 5 seasons for us, Portis 6 in three, I do believe you will find that Portis averages more fumbles per season than Betts.[/QUOTE]

Portis also had significantly more carries than Betts in that time frame.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

Why can't they both be great? Seems like a lot of people are attacking Betts in this thread and I don't get that. It's possible to think Portis is probably better without having to diminish what Betts was able to accomplish last year.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=dmek25;324388]I'll make no excuses for Portis. has Betts ever had a 1500 yard season? has Betts ever had a double digit season of touchdowns? Betts is a decent back up. period. has Portis ever had a fumble that has cost us a game? has Betts ever had a run of longer then 20 yards? Portis is by far the quicker of the 2 backs. and Betts isn't the power back that some around here think he is.[/quote]

Betts has never really had the oppurtunity to have a 1500 yard season so your point makes no sense. And one play never ever cost a team a game. That's ridicules. Portis fumbled at crucial times back in 04 if I remember correctly. I'm not saying Betts is better cause he's not. But if given the chance he could run for 1500 yards. He went over a 1000 in what, 8 starts? That's pretty damn good if you ask me. I dont' see many back-up RB's having the type of season Betts had. He is more than a decent backup. Cartwright is what I would call a decent back-up.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=offiss;324382]I will explain it for you, there is a difference between speed and quickness, Betts gets the ball full speed and drills the hole faster than Portis, making life easier for the guys blocking up front they don't have to hold their blocks as long.

As far as power between the 2, your delusional if you think Portis is as strong as Betts.

I am pretty tired of all these excuses for Portis, like the only reason Betts outperformed him is because he was allowed to run downhill? That is a big joke! We ran downhill with Betts because we could with him, because of the reasons I stated above, we didn't with Portis because he is to slow looking for the hole, and to weak to run people over. The running game didn't change because we called different play's, it changed because we put a back in there that could handle a downhill running game which Portis is not, a downhill runner.[/quote]

I will say this. For what Gibbs and Bugel like, Betts is more their style of RB.

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=skinsfan69;324512]I will say this. For what Gibbs and Bugel like, Betts is more their style of RB.[/quote]
this point makes no sense. coach gibbs made the trade that brought portis to washington. and if you are right, why wasnt a trade made after last season?

Re: Portis vs. Betts
 

[quote=skinsfan69;324512]I will say this. For what Gibbs and Bugel like, Betts is more their style of RB.[/quote]

you are crazy, and everyone needs too realize one thing. if betts was joe bugals and joe gibbs style then he would start....they would get rid of portis or at least use him as the back up...ask lavar arrington that one fellas, it doesnt matter how much you pay the guy as a coach you are going to play the better player(the player who is your style). quit making comments about portis v betts in terms of betts is better because he isnt other wise he would play over him. betts is a good back up, a f-ing perfect and awesome back up.

another comment is the ol LJ and Priest comparisons with Betts and Portis.....first off priest was better just look at the numbers, second off betts is not even close to on par with LARRY FREAKING JOHNSON!!! get a clue fellas.