Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[QUOTE=gibbsisgod;329908]They are just fine. I got my son(18 months) saying "Go REDSKINS" all the time now. It comes out more like "o ehsins" but I really like the effort. He is "Super Smart".


[/QUOTE]


I've got mine saying: "If I were to pay you all cash, and close quickly, what is the minimum you would take for this house?" Learned it all on his own, at age 28!


Now, my grandsons, that's another story. The three year old likes Lightning McQueen, and the 14 month old likes following after his older brother. There is hope, because his other Grandpa is also a fellow Skins fan.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=JDALY27;329964]We had the worst stats of any defense and no sacks last year. We turned around and did nothing personel wise to address the defensive line. By now this league thinks Gibbs has lost his marbles and this is another poke in the ribs.

Where did you expect them to rank our line?

I'm still loyal to Gibbs and company knowing that they can win with what they had.[/quote]

A. Carter had a few sacks last year.... That is more than "none". You're as bad as the boring sports writer...

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=wilsowilso;329973]Remember people this is the time of year when pro football fans start to lose their minds. Keep the peace.[/quote]

... keep the peace? yeah right....

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[QUOTE=ArtMonkDrillz;329960]Sure, but would any one that they picked up with the second day picks be that much better than Golsten or Montgomery? It would have been nice for future depth, which we clearly need, but I don't think we would have picked up 3 studs.
Plus, from what people have said it sounds like Sartz could be a steal. On the ohter hand, Palmer was probably a waste of a pick.[/QUOTE]

I agree they wouldn't have gotten guys much better than Golston or Montgomery, however, they do need guys who could develop into decent players. At least someone to replace Salave'a would have been nice.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=hesscl34;330006]... keep the peace? yeah right....[/quote]

Well yeah I know the jv debate team members can't help themselves.....

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

Don't watch Cold Pizza. Why are you doing that to yourself?

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=GTripp0012;330028]Don't watch Cold Pizza. Why are you doing that to yourself?[/quote]

its called first take now

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

Quite honestly, the Redskins defensive line is horrible. It's been a glaring weakness for a few years. Williams has attempted to band aid the piss-poor line by using a lot of zone blitzes and formation shifts, but last year, this bunch couldn't hide. The team did not make any personnel changes this off season and is hoping that the improved back 7 will make up for the lack of talent up front. I hope Greg Williams is right, but I have my doubts.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

I don't think it was his blitzes that made it elite in 2004 and 2005. I think Griffin needs to stay healthy and Golston needs to continue to progress.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;330050]I don't think it was his blitzes that made it elite in 2004 and 2005. I think Griffin needs to stay healthy and Golston needs to continue to progress.[/quote]

I agree with you. The only way this line can improve is to stay healthy and get tremendous improvement from Golston and Montgomery. Being the die-hard fan that I am, I believe it can happen, but realistically, I'm worried until I actually see it.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;330031]its called first take now[/quote]

doesnt matter how you paint shit, it's still shit.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club;329949]I still haven't heard anyone argue the fact that our secondary will significantly bolster our pass rush:



[COLOR="DarkRed"][I]No one can argue that our pass rush sucked last year - but don't forget that our DB situation is much, much improved with serious depth: Springs, Smoot, Rogers, Maklin & Butler at CB and Taylor, Landry, Prioleau & Stoutmire at Safety. And don't forget the ever-versatile ADE at both!

Seriously, you can't tell me that the improved coverage won't lead to more time for our DE's to get to the Quarterback. IMO, if you want to improve pass rush, you can attack it from two persectives, better rushers or better coverage - the Skins went coverage.[/I][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

The problem with this philosophy is that if your secondary gets banged up, then you've got NOTHING in terms of a pass rush. It's crucial to have D-linemen who can get pressure on the QB by themselves. We didn't have that in '06, Springs and Prioleau got nicked up and we set the NFL record for fewest sacks in a non-strike year.

I'd like to think the secondary is significantly better than last year. But Rogers still needs to progress, Smoot is a question mark thanks to his performance in Minnesota, and Springs is still on the fragile side of 30. Are Macklin and Butler far and away better than than the likes of Kenny Wright/Mike Rumph? I hope so, but do we know for sure?

These are the things that make me pessimistic about '07. The secondary is right behind the D-line as far as the biggest question marks of the upcoming season.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

Our offense should hit it's stride this year, and possess the ball, giving our defense less time on the field, leading to better performance. If JC doesnt get first downs, we will be in serious trouble, simple as that.

We cannot afford to get behind, or the run with mutilate us

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[QUOTE=Ferrari;330019]Speaking of the Redskins being bashed on every sports show in America, I don't know if you guys saw it but on Cold Pizza they said "Well its never too early to look forward to next year. So who do you think will be the overall #1 pick in 2008?? Well to figure that out you have to decide who will have the #1 pick and my choice will have to go with the Washington Redskins drafting the DE out of USC". That just makes me laugh. The worst record in the NFL, yeah right. I cant wait for this season to start.[/QUOTE]

This was months ago. It was a guest columnist from a newspaper who said he thought they'd have the first pick

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;330014]Well yeah I know the jv debate team members can't help themselves.....[/QUOTE]

JV Debate team members?

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=SmootSmack;330081]JV Debate team members?[/quote]

People who love to argue for arguments sake or prove a point absolutely every and any chance they get because it makes them feel better about themselves even though they will never really get over the deep rooted pain of not making the debate team. I don't know.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=wilsowilso;330118]People who love to argue for arguments sake or prove a point absolutely every and any chance they get because it makes them feel better about themselves even though they will never really get over the deep rooted pain of not making the debate team. I don't know.[/quote]


who does that?

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

unfortually it probably true but i would say were about in the 20's for the defensive line.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=Ade Jimoh Fan Club;329962]Palmer was a complete waste of a pick. Clearly our biggest draft mistake was not moving up in the 6th round to pick Mason Crosby as our kicker of the future. I mean, Suisham? WTF? Does anyone know if Vanderjagt is still out there to pick up? Nothing like losing close games with a crappy kicker.[/quote]

Isnt' Vanderjagt a crappy kicker now?

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

So let me get this straight. The Redskins line is the worst in the league. Now, are we talking about a line that has the #1 Pro-bowl corner hurt, Smoot and Macklin hurt, #1 Pro-bowl linebacker hurt, Fletcher hurt, Marshall hurt, Big Joe hurt, Daniels hurt, Griffin hurt, Rocky a bust, Carter regresses, Golston and Montgomery do not improve at all, and Landry is a bust. If all of those scenarios are true than I will agree with them. Otherwise, they are a bunch of f-ing morons who looked at the 2006 stats before they put together a meaningless article.

And for anyone who agrees with them. Shame on you.

Why don't people look at the FACTS before they agree with some idiotic article that was composed in late June?

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=Mattyk72;329258]So says Scouts Inc.

Link: [URL]http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=2935257[/URL]

[B]32. [/B][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was"][B][COLOR=#000000]Washington Redskins[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
Six-year veteran [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5454"][COLOR=#000000]Andre Carter[/COLOR][/URL] is the most solid player on the defensive line. He has been surrounded by underachievers and aging athletes. Carter has excellent quickness off the edge but has never been a physical player versus the run. [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3634"][COLOR=#000000]Phillip Daniels[/COLOR][/URL] is on the backside of his career and does not have much playmaking ability. Backup ends [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5710"][COLOR=#000000]Demetric Evans[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3924"][COLOR=#000000]Renaldo Wynn[/COLOR][/URL] have shown little playmaking ability throughout their careers. Defensive tackles [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5071"][COLOR=#000000]Cornelius Griffin[/COLOR][/URL] underachieved in 2006 and has been an inconsistent performer much of his career. Rookie sixth-round pick [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7945"][COLOR=#000000]Kedric Golston[/COLOR][/URL] and backup [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4336"][COLOR=#000000]Joe Salave'a[/COLOR][/URL] play hard but don't have the tools to be impact players. The Redskins didn't address the defensive line deficiencies in the 2007 draft. Instead they tried to plug holes with veteran retreads.[/quote]

I think that's a little harsh. And was it written by Andre Carter's agent? That first sentence is news to me. Also, C.G. has been hampered by injury but to label him an inconsistent performer is to not have seem him play in Washington. If you mean oft-injured then write that. We may have the worst line in the league, but this writer doesn't seem to have arrived at that conclusion by watching games.

We definitely need better play from this group and I do agree that we lack playmakers at DE, which is why I was an advocate for drafting that position. Even If Andre Carter plays great, you still have a hole on the other side. P.D. can't have much left in the tank at this point.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;330208]So let me get this straight. The Redskins line is the worst in the league. Now, are we talking about a line that has the #1 Pro-bowl corner hurt, Smoot and Macklin hurt, #1 Pro-bowl linebacker hurt, Fletcher hurt, Marshall hurt, Big Joe hurt, Daniels hurt, Griffin hurt, Rocky a bust, Carter regresses, Golston and Montgomery do not improve at all, and Landry is a bust. If all of those scenarios are true than I will agree with them. Otherwise, they are a bunch of f-ing morons who looked at the 2006 stats before they put together a meaningless article.

And for anyone who agrees with them. Shame on you.

Why don't people look at the FACTS before they agree with some idiotic article that was composed in late June?[/QUOTE]

I don't think the linebackers and secondary have anything to do with this analysis though. This is strictly the DTs and DEs

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=SmootSmack;330212]I don't thin the linebackers and secondary have anything to do with this analysis though. This is strictly the DTs and DEs[/quote]

Than that is a faulty analysis. Every level affects the others. That still doesn't change the assumptions that I laid out on the linemen.

I know this, the D-line was dominant against Carolina. No 32 ranked line could have performed like that.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;330214]Than that is a faulty analysis. Every level affects the others. That still doesn't change the assumptions that I laid out on the linemen.

I know this, the D-line was dominant against Carolina. No 32 ranked line could have performed like that.[/quote]Carolina had the 24th ranked offense last year. Every d-line dominated them. Its not like they had a great o-line and our guys just took it to 'em.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

I really can't argue with this ranking. I think they could have been ranked anywhere from #28 down, and when you're that low does it really matter?

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;330214]Than that is a faulty analysis. Every level affects the others. That still doesn't change the assumptions that I laid out on the linemen.

I know this, the D-line was dominant against Carolina. No 32 ranked line could have performed like that.[/quote]

Here is how I see it. When you add it all up our line isn't very good. Otherwise we would get more sacks/hurries and we would have played better run defense.

1. It seems when Griff is hurt our line totally falls apart. Perhaps the staff needs to lower his # of plays so he can stay healthy and fresh.

2. Daniels hasn't done a damn thing since he has been here except complain that he was tired because of the off season program. Go cry me a river.

3. Goldston isn't strong enough to be an every down NFL DT. Not sure what the coaches saw but I saw him getting blown off the ball waaaaay to much.

4. We don't know if Mongomery can live up to his potential.

5. AC isn't an every down 4-3 end cause he isn't strong enough.

6. Like Griff, Joe S. is starting to break down alot.

7. Evans can't beat out the starters at DE which is where we need the most help so he must not be very good.

8. Wynn? Don't even get me started. Great locker room guy and all, but he can't play at the NFL level anymore. He is as slow as a turtle.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

I'm not sure if our line is the worst in the league, but it's near the bottom. Honestly ask yourself, "How often does our d-line get pressure from the front four alone?" I think Carter, Golston, and Griffin have the[I] potential[/I] to be very good players, but potential does not always produce results. There is not one player on the line who is very good on a consistent basis. Golston could be a keeper, but he showed me very little last season to get crazy about. Griffin is great when he is on the field, but he rarely hits the field. Carter was great in the last quarter of the season, but was a big disappointment in the first 10+ games. Daniels hasn't had a great day since Week 16 of the 2005 season.

That being said, I think the depth at DB and LB bodes very well for our defense. Every team has holes, ours just happen to be up front and, who knows, maybe Griffin will stay healthy, Carter will maintain his high level of production, and Golston will emerge as a quality player.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;330208]So let me get this straight. The Redskins line is the worst in the league. Now, are we talking about a line that has the #1 Pro-bowl corner hurt, Smoot and Macklin hurt, #1 Pro-bowl linebacker hurt, Fletcher hurt, Marshall hurt, Big Joe hurt, Daniels hurt, Griffin hurt, Rocky a bust, Carter regresses, Golston and Montgomery do not improve at all, and Landry is a bust. If all of those scenarios are true than I will agree with them. Otherwise, they are a bunch of f-ing morons who looked at the 2006 stats before they put together a meaningless article.

And for anyone who agrees with them. Shame on you.

Why don't people look at the FACTS before they agree with some idiotic article that was composed in late June?[/QUOTE]Grim, the facts agree with the conclusion reached by Scouts Inc. All you are doing is passing the blame from one unit to the next tryimg to justify a defensive rebound this season.

Sean Taylor is not to blame for taking poor angles and god awful pass coverage because the line was bad. The Line is not to blame for being awful because Holdman and Marshall suck and the DBs are doing a bad job. The Linebackers are doing a poor job because Carter and Golston aren't eating up blocks.

Well, at least if no one is at fault, we dont have to worry about ever fixing the problems.

Every unit on the defense was below average next year. We didn't do nearly enough (nor could we with one first day draft pick) to change the future outlook for this unit.

Everyone is one year older. For players like Sean Taylor and Carlos Rogers, that means one more year of experience. For everyone else, it means the expectation for effectiveness decreases from last year. Unfortunately for us, that means 9 starters on defense will likely not be as good as they were last year, or at the very least, stay consistent with last years performance.

Fletcher will help in the middle, but you know what his "upside" is. There's really no potential on this defense for this season, especially in the front seven. If everyone stays healthy though, these guys just may have enough left in their tanks to improve on a sup par 2006 season. Just dont count on it, this defense is way, way, past its theoretical prime.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=GTripp0012;330633]Grim, the facts agree with the conclusion reached by Scouts Inc. All you are doing is passing the blame from one unit to the next tryimg to justify a defensive rebound this season.

Sean Taylor is not to blame for taking poor angles and god awful pass coverage because the line was bad. The Line is not to blame for being awful because Holdman and Marshall suck and the DBs are doing a bad job. The Linebackers are doing a poor job because Carter and Golston aren't eating up blocks.

Well, at least if no one is at fault, we dont have to worry about ever fixing the problems.

Every unit on the defense was below average next year. We didn't do nearly enough (nor could we with one first day draft pick) to change the future outlook for this unit.

Everyone is one year older. For players like Sean Taylor and Carlos Rogers, that means one more year of experience. For everyone else, it means the expectation for effectiveness decreases from last year. Unfortunately for us, that means 9 starters on defense will likely not be as good as they were last year, or at the very least, stay consistent with last years performance.

Fletcher will help in the middle, but you know what his "upside" is. There's really no potential on this defense for this season, especially in the front seven. If everyone stays healthy though, these guys just may have enough left in their tanks to improve on a sup par 2006 season. Just dont count on it, this defense is way, way, past its theoretical prime.[/quote]


GTripp has a point there, everyone on the Defense sucked equally last year.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

Sound about right.....for last year. I pray they can get more chances to smack the QB's around a little this year. Gotta be able to get our linemen fired up.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

The more I think about it, the more I agree that we were the wrost D line last year.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

Rather than simply state our D sux! I would give props to Williams & his excellent defensive system. It was only 2 years ago that the Skin's D was outperforming half the league with most of the guys still on the club, now with a heathy & improved secondary that should allow the LB's to play looser & commit more to the run. That will be the diifference in 07'.

Name me one team in the last 5 years that dominated with a weak secondary.... there are none. There's a reason why the skins drafted Landry

When you eliminate the deep threat, you allow your D to put 8 in the box & that's a classic run killing 46 formation.

Now we can debate offense all season long which I think will sputter through most of the 1st half, if they can stay healthy & the line improve we might have a shot to make a run in the 2nd half.

PEACE!

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=hesscl34;330005]A. Carter had a few sacks last year.... That is more than "none". You're as bad as the boring sports writer...[/quote]

Guess you didn't read the part where I'm loyal to Gibbs and the existing personel. My point was that our Defense set records for being so bad statistically, what did we expect!!!

Read the entire post next time please.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=GTripp0012;329338]This analysis is most likely correct, but very simplistic in its nature. I don't think I learned anything I didn't already know from reading this report.[/quote]

It's hard to fault the analysis for not coming up with something new. An analysis should try to be true, not a scoop. Unfortunately, this one happens to be true and lays it out very well.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=ChounsMan;330724]Rather than simply state our D sux! I would give props to Williams & his excellent defensive system. It was only 2 years ago that the Skin's D was outperforming half the league with most of the guys still on the club, now with a heathy & improved secondary that should allow the LB's to play looser & commit more to the run. That will be the diifference in 07'.

Name me one team in the last 5 years that dominated with a weak secondary.... there are none. There's a reason why the skins drafted Landry

When you eliminate the deep threat, you allow your D to put 8 in the box & that's a classic run killing 46 formation.

Now we can debate offense all season long which I think will sputter through most of the 1st half, if they can stay healthy & the line improve we might have a shot to make a run in the 2nd half.

PEACE![/quote]

It's not the system, then; it's the players.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;330634]GTripp has a point there, everyone on the Defense sucked equally last year.[/quote]

When your 5-11 there is PLENTY of blame to go around. The offense sucked almost as bad as the defense.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

[QUOTE=ChounsMan;330724]Rather than simply state our D sux! I would give props to Williams & his excellent defensive system. It was only 2 years ago that the Skin's D was outperforming half the league with most of the guys still on the club, now with a heathy & improved secondary that should allow the LB's to play looser & commit more to the run. That will be the diifference in 07'.

Name me one team in the last 5 years that dominated with a weak secondary.... there are none. There's a reason why the skins drafted Landry

When you eliminate the deep threat, you allow your D to put 8 in the box & that's a classic run killing 46 formation.

Now we can debate offense all season long which I think will sputter through most of the 1st half, if they can stay healthy & the line improve we might have a shot to make a run in the 2nd half.

PEACE![/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone here is simplifying things to the point that we're just dismissing the D-line just "because it sucks." There has been thoughtful, reasoned analysis backed up by facts with regard to the front four.

By the way, the Chargers have done pretty well over the past couple of years, and the knock on them has always been a secondary that's lacking. So you can have a good defense if your front seven holds its own.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

Scouts Inc is wrong if they think Carter is our best DL. Not even close.
Griffen when healthy is our best.
Griffen is not inconsistent. When injured, just like any other player, his level of play is reduced. Don't call him inconsistent.
We do not have the worst DL. That is BS. We had a ton of injuries last season on defense and poor backups. Plain and simple.

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

griffith is getting older and unfortually been hurt the last couple of year JS is always hurt, Carter is ok nothing special and Daniels stinks. The two young guy have some upside. So it not surprising that were ranked so low

Re: Redskins have the worst defensive line in the league
 

This article tells us nothing that we don't already know. Articles like this should be bulletin board material at Redskin Park. Also, articles like this will continue to be written until this team silences the critics. But, I too find it strange that our team has done nothing to address this glaring weakness. I come from the school of; if you cause mad havoc at the line of scrimage, and around the quarterback, then you do much to affect what the opposing offense can do in a game. To be successful I feel that this defense needs to set the agenda, and go after people with flying bodies coming from all over. Does our defense do this?