Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;332798]I think the thought is more along the lines of not setting a date before we reach a point where we can leave. What happens if we say we're leaving in May '08? [B]The insurgents could lay back and wait until we're gone and then unleash holy hell.[/B] If we wait until the situation is firmly under control then we can then say we're leaving in 3 months or whatever.[/QUOTE]

So what? They're going to do that whenever we leave anyway.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=saden1;332772]Psst, it's no secret that the US would eventually go home. Also, when we start heading home it won't take a genius to deduce we're leaving. We're not going sneak out of Iraq. Finally, we have done it in the past (Nixon and Vietnam).[/quote]
Yea and how many people got slaughtered after we left. I'm not saying that its is this big seceret that we will leave but you never show your hand for the other to sit back and wait for it to happen.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=firstdown;332821]Yea and how many people got slaughtered after we left. I'm not saying that its is this big seceret that we will leave but you never show your hand for the other to sit back and wait for it to happen.[/quote]


Show our hand? We don't have many hands left to play. It's a well known fact that the troops are weary and many are now on their second tour and some being extended.

The only hand we have left is to leave. We know it, the Iraquis know it and all the other terrorists know it. I don't think by the U.S. not setting a time table will mitiage the potential violence that will ensue.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

There's been a lot of talk that we may not have plans to leave and that the DoD is looking to the "Korea model" for how we should deal with Iraq over the long haul. I don't think the Korea model is politically feasible, but who knows.

Let's just say, however, that we do not follow the Korea model and we leave Iraq. If we then get hit with a terrorist attack here or somewhere abroad by terrorists trained in a post-occupation Iraq, who is to blame? My guess is the left will blame it all on Bush for going to Iraq in the first place and the right will blame it all on the dems for pushing for a withdrawal. Thoughts?

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;332899]There's been a lot of talk that we may not have plans to leave and that the DoD is looking to the "Korea model" for how we should deal with Iraq over the long haul. I don't think the Korea model is [B]politically feasible[/B], but who knows.

Let's just say, however, that we do not follow the Korea model and we leave Iraq. If we then get hit with a terrorist attack here or somewhere abroad by terrorists trained in a post-occupation Iraq, who is to blame? My guess is the left will blame it all on Bush for going to Iraq in the first place and the right will blame it all on the dems for pushing for a withdrawal. Thoughts?[/quote]

Is it militarily feasible?

The blame game will always persist but I think the more troubling issue is that somehow people expect to be perfectly safe at all times and if they are not, well then the sky must be falling. We deal with issues in our lives and move on all the time and it's no different with our nation. You don't lock yourself up, become paranoid and drown in your own sorrow. That would constitute depression. You first understand the problem, then confront it and finally try to solve it. Sometimes force is needed to solve an issue but life would be miserable if you're in a constant battle. Relationships are upon compromise and we hardly ever do that. One of the biggest problem our nation faces is it's pride in itself and somehow if you have a different view point you're inferior. The "we're always right and we know what's best" disease if you will.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;332899]There's been a lot of talk that we may not have plans to leave and that the DoD is looking to the "Korea model" for how we should deal with Iraq over the long haul. I don't think the Korea model is politically feasible, but who knows.

Let's just say, however, that we do not follow the Korea model and we leave Iraq. If we then get hit with a terrorist attack here or somewhere abroad by terrorists trained in a post-occupation Iraq, who is to blame? My guess is the left will blame it all on Bush for going to Iraq in the first place and the right will blame it all on the dems for pushing for a withdrawal. Thoughts?[/quote]

I think if either side is smart they'll stay away from this gamesmanship of who's fault the war is. Both the left and the right played a hand in sending the troops to Iraq, so neither side has anything to gain politically or otherwise. If you look at Bush's ratings they are very low and so are the Dems since they've taken over.

However, I could see, no offense to anyone here, Hillary protesting loudly about how the Right screwed things up and this is "Bush's" war. Only because she's been the most vocal and critical about Bush during the debates, but that's just to gain political points in my view.

I'm not too familiar with the Korean model, so I can't really speak to that. But this is a new animal all together.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

I should probably have stated that my support for keeping troops in Iraq is conditioned on the upcoming report from Petraeus. I knew of Petraeus when he was a colonel and I have a lot of respect for him. I know that he will be subject to massive political forces in writing his report, but I genuinely believe that his report will be a no bs-assessment of the conditions in Iraq. I cannot support any plan that doesn't take his report into consideration. To believe otherwise would be akin to a layman proscribing a treatment for an illness before consulting a doctor for a diagnosis.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;332924]I should probably have stated that my support for keeping troops in Iraq is conditioned on the upcoming report from Petraeus. I knew of Petraeus when he was a colonel and I have a lot of respect for him. I know that he will be subject to massive political forces in writing his report, but I genuinely believe that his report will be a no bs-assessment of the conditions in Iraq. I cannot support any plan that doesn't take his report into consideration. To believe otherwise would be akin to a layman proscribing a treatment for an illness before consulting a doctor for a diagnosis.[/QUOTE]

Suppose Petraeus is saying only what the Administration wants or allows him to say? I don't know about you, but I'll have a problem believing whatever their hand-picked guy has to say.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=FRPLG;332722]I have a problem with it too but one argument I keep hearing from lots of people(not you) is that Bush has destroyed our standing around the world with his ham handed foreign relations and diplomacy. When the same people come back and say that the Whitehouse needs to be something about this situation they are directly contradicting themselves on this point. People can't say "Don't interfer around the world and cost us respect" and then in the next senetence say "president bush should be outraged over this, and not a peep from the white house". It's actions like those peeps from the Whitehouse that supposedly has cost us such standing in the world. Again, I am not saying I agree with that stance. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of it.[/quote]
you cant have your cake and eat it, too. either you go into Iraq, with a strong plan, both entry and exit, or you don't go in at all. once you are there, you try to accomplish your goals, as quickly as possible. and then turn over their country to them. to say we should let them take a vacation, in the middle of a civil war, is insane. how would Americans have felt if on sept 12, 2001, congress took a 3 week vacation. and i like how beems said it, if we are footing the bill, we have the right to question every move thats made. bush has already destroyed the united states good stranding around the world, so why worry about stepping on some more toes?

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;332932]you cant have your cake and eat it, too. either you go into Iraq, with a strong plan, both entry and exit, or you don't go in at all. once you are there, you try to accomplish your goals, as quickly as possible. and then turn over their country to them. to say we should [B]let them [/B]take a vacation, in the middle of a civil war, is insane. how would Americans have felt if on sept 12, 2001, congress took a 3 week vacation. and i like how beems said it, if we are footing the bill, we have the right to question every move thats made. bush has already destroyed the united states good stranding around the world, so why worry about stepping on some more toes?[/QUOTE]
Let them?

This is what I am talking about. First off I agree that they should not be doing this. But, as you have stated in the past, you believe Bush and the administration have hurt us politically around the world with our foreign policy. Presummably a lot of that idea centers around the whole imperialist description that so many throw around. To then assert that we should MAKE another sovreign country's government not take a vacation is adovating, no demanding, that he do something undeniably imperialistic. I am simply pointing out that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Please correct me if I have mischaracterized your position. It is not my intention. For the record I think Bush ought to call Malaki up and ream his ass for letting this happen but then again I don't bash Bush on a regular basis for his imeprialistic foreign policy that has hurt us so badly.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

i don't think I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. the decision to go to Iraq has already been made. now that the united states is footing the bill, alone, it has every right to dictate( yes, i said dictate) the actions of the Iraqi government. to take a vacation now is just plain stupid. and to be in charge, like we are, and let it happen without any backlash, is crazy. this war was disaster from its conception, and it keeps getting worse. to worry about pissing someone off now is like closing the barn door, after.....

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

i agree totally about Bush calling up Malaki and reaming him out. i think we are clear on my position on the president. i choose not to play politics with our soldiers lives. its seems to me that the united states has no clear plan. this includes the Dem's as well as the Republicans

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=dmek25;332932]you cant have your cake and eat it, too. [/quote]

I've heard this my whole life, but doesn't it apply only to the very last piece of cake?

Update: All of this talk about cake has got me hungry.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;332936]Let them?

This is what I am talking about. First off I agree that they should not be doing this. But, as you have stated in the past, you believe Bush and the administration have hurt us politically around the world with our foreign policy. Presummably a lot of that idea centers around the whole imperialist description that so many throw around. To then assert that we should MAKE another sovreign country's government not take a vacation is adovating, no demanding, that he do something undeniably imperialistic. I am simply pointing out that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Please correct me if I have mischaracterized your position. It is not my intention. For the record I think Bush ought to call Malaki up and ream his ass for letting this happen but then again I don't bash Bush on a regular basis for his imeprialistic foreign policy that has hurt us so badly.[/QUOTE]

I am one who has criticized not just this administration, but the interventionist foreign policies of presidents long past regardless of their party affiliation.

The complaint people have about Iraqi government officials taking a month-long vacation isn't rooted in some sort of twisted desire for the United States to dictate how much time off another country may give its officials.

The outcry you're hearing is the outrage people have over the so-called Iraqi "leaders" kicking back for some R & R while our troops are risking life and limb doing the real dirty work. If they feel the situation in [I]their[/I] country is such that they can chill for a month on vacation, then our soldiers and marines should be able to do the same thing.

The hypocrisy you speak of lies with the Bush administration who is telling us on the one hand that it's perfectly fine for Iraqi government officials to leave their duties for 30 days to rest up, but on the other hand the situation is in such a delicate state that we don't dare pull our troops out or else the whole country will collapse.

That's the real inconsistency you should be concerned with.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;332926]Suppose Petraeus is saying only what the Administration wants or allows him to say? I don't know about you, but [B]I'll have a problem believing whatever their hand-picked guy has to say.[/B][/quote]

Then we can take your skepticism for what it is, when it comes. Petraus was unanimously confirmed by the Democrat-controlled Senate. He is a widely respected military figure, not some party hack. You make him sound like Karl Rove's lawn guy. It will be interesting to see Reid and the others try to delicately shit on him in the run up to September, all the while telling us how they support the troops. I'll have a problem believing [I]that.[/I]

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

please explain to me how thinking this administration made a gigantic mistake with Iraq, means you don't support the troops? quit watching fox news, for i full heartedly support our brave young men and women that fight. i just believe they should not be there in the first place

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;332953]I am one who has criticized not just this administration, but the interventionist foreign policies of presidents long past regardless of their party affiliation.

The complaint people have about Iraqi government officials taking a month-long vacation isn't rooted in some sort of twisted desire for the United States to dictate how much time off another country may give its officials.

The outcry you're hearing is the outrage people have over the so-called Iraqi "leaders" kicking back for some R & R while our troops are risking life and limb doing the real dirty work. If they feel the situation in [I]their[/I] country is such that they can chill for a month on vacation, then our soldiers and marines should be able to do the same thing.

The hypocrisy you speak of lies with the Bush administration who is telling us on the one hand that it's perfectly fine for Iraqi government officials to leave their duties for 30 days to rest up, but on the other hand the situation is in such a delicate state that we don't dare pull our troops out or else the whole country will collapse.

That's the real inconsistency you should be concerned with.[/QUOTE]

Geez would you read what I said. I agree with you. I am simply pointing out there saying we should do something to make them not take such a vactions is exactly the kinds of things that people berate Bush for everywhere else. That to me is hypocrisy.

Again, I agree with you.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;332959]please explain to me how thinking this administration made a gigantic mistake with Iraq, means you don't support the troops? quit watching fox news, for i full heartedly support our brave young men and women that fight. i just believe they should not be there in the first place[/QUOTE]

#1- Fox news has never said that if you disagree with the War in Iraq that you are against the troops.
#2- Fox news is one of the best non biased news sources.
Should we blame NBC news for everything that democrats say or think?

Just for the record, I am assuming you were using that as sarcasm, but I had to comment.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;332926]Suppose Petraeus is saying only what the Administration wants or allows him to say? I don't know about you, but I'll have a problem believing whatever their hand-picked guy has to say.[/QUOTE]

Well I guess we should disregard his preliminary report which found that progess in Iraq was unsatisfactory in 9 of 16 areas of concern. The guy is universally hailed (i.e., by repubs, dems, and independents) as one of the best soldiers our military has produced in years. He's been giving no-bs assessments of Iraq since day 1. If you don't believe me, read up on him and you will be impressed.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;333022][B]Well I guess we should disregard his preliminary report which found that progess in Iraq was unsatisfactory in 9 of 16 areas of concern. [/B]The guy is universally hailed (i.e., by repubs, dems, and independents) as one of the best soldiers our military has produced in years. He's been giving no-bs assessments of Iraq since day 1. If you don't believe me, read up on him and you will be impressed.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I find it hard to believe that in only 9 areas was progress unsatisfactory.

Does it bother you that Patraeus has very little experience in combat? That after the initial invasion it was he that was responsible for re-training the Iraqi forces for security detail?

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;333066]Exactly. I find it hard to believe that in only 9 areas was progress unsatisfactory. [/QUOTE]

Because you have been there right? I mean you not just giving an opinion upon which you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about right? It is fine to be against the war. I understand that argument very well. But don't make an argument that it isn't going well when you are simply basing that upon not liking the war. You haven't the first clue whether 9 of 16 areas are going well or not based on any type of real evidence do you?

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=jsarno;333011]#1- Fox news has never said that if you disagree with the War in Iraq that you are against the troops.
#2- Fox news is one of the best non biased news sources.
Should we blame NBC news for everything that democrats say or think?

Just for the record, I am assuming you were using that as sarcasm, but I had to comment.[/quote]
I always find it funny how the left bash Fox, Rush and the other news sources but they defend CNN, ABC, CBS, and the other news which lean sto the left. The one thing about Rush and the other talk shows is that they tell you up front that they lean to the right. The other news sources hide behind the "I'm a reporter and just report the news" then add their left leaning stance on the subject. I myself listen to all kinds of news form Fox, NPR, national news and many other sources. The left on the other hand calls Rush, Hanaty, and other right leaning names as they cannot stand them but then they preach free speech.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=dmek25;332943]i don't think I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. the decision to go to Iraq has already been made. now that the united states is footing the bill, alone, it has every right to dictate( yes, i said dictate) the actions of the Iraqi government. to take a vacation now is just plain stupid. and to be in charge, like we are, and let it happen without any backlash, is crazy. this war was disaster from its conception, and it keeps getting worse. to worry about pissing someone off now is like closing the barn door, after.....[/quote]
We don't agree on very much but with whats going on over there and the importance to get Iraq back on their feet their 3 week vaction (or what ever time they took off) was ill timed if we are hearing the whole story. There could have been oher reasons that they have taken the time off which we do not know about.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

I kinda like [url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/indians/2007-07-25-Feller_N.htm"]Bob Feller's idea[/url]:
[quote]For example, on a trip to the White House with other Hall of Famers last year, he told Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice what had to be done in the Iraq war: He thought 450,000 troops should go take over the oil and establish a curfew in Iraq.

"I told her, 'I've never seen a war won by talking,' " Feller says.[/quote]

Personally, I think Biden and Thompson have the right idea diplomatically, with a little Edwards thrown in. No reason to leave any permanent bases in Iraq when we have them within striking distance elsewhere.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;333074]Because you have been there right? I mean you not just giving an opinion upon which you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about right? It is fine to be against the war. I understand that argument very well. But don't make an argument that it isn't going well when you are simply basing that upon not liking the war. You haven't the first clue whether 9 of 16 areas are going well or not based on any type of real evidence do you?[/QUOTE]

Uh-huh. So [I]you[/I] must have been in Iraq to be so sure that I'm wrong and things are going well in the remaining 7 areas of progress, right?

If things are going so great, why can't we leave?

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie;333100]I kinda like [url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/indians/2007-07-25-Feller_N.htm"]Bob Feller's idea[/url]:


Personally, I think Biden and Thompson have the right idea diplomatically, with a little Edwards thrown in. No reason to leave any permanent bases in Iraq when we have them within striking distance elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

The more I hear what Biden has to say overall, the more I like him. Too bad he's got no shot really. His chance passed 20 years ago I suppose after those plagiarism charges. Maybe he's got a chance to be a VP.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;333108]Uh-huh. So [I]you[/I] must have been in Iraq to be so sure that I'm wrong and things are going well in the remaining 7 areas of progress, right?

If things are going so great, why can't we leave?[/QUOTE]
The difference is that I have a report that tells me that 7 of 16 are going well. You simply have your skepticism to disbelieve that. Skepticism is usually very affected by emotion. I am simply pointing out that you say you "find it hard to believe" yet you gave no resaon why and I suspect it is because you don't really have any concrete reasons.

And where did I say it was going great? Good old fashioned misdirection with that comment if you ask me. Don't have a good argument, then just project an opinion into someone else's argument to weaken it I guess.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;333066]Does it bother you that Patraeus has very little experience in combat?[/QUOTE]

No. Some of our nation's best military leaders were ones who never saw combat (e.g., Gen. George Marshall - the guy who pretty much won WWII). I know that Iraq war opponents jump to the immediate conclusion that everything ever affiliated with Bush is pure-evil, corrupt, etc., but I have never heard anyone criticize Petraeus.

In that regard, it would be nice to see Iraq war opponents or Iraq war supporters not be so one-sided. I know the war is a polarizing issue, but that doesn't make it a black and white issue. Not everything is "bad" or "good", there is some room for "I don't knows" or "undecideds."

That leads me to my final point. I was less than thrilled when the repubs were trying to use 9/11 and terror threats to their political ends in 2004. They repeatedly tried to remind people that we were at war and that AQ was looking to kill Americans. It was simply disgusting. Equally disgusting, however, is how the Dems are doing everything in their power to paint as bleak a picture as possible of the war in Iraq. Obviously, they know that Bush's legacy, the public's happiness with repubs (via their connection with Bush), and the fate of the 2008 election lies in Iraq. Accordingly, they paint as bleak of a picture as possible of what is going on in Iraq. I know they rightly criticized Bush for using war as a political tool, but they are doing the same thing but no one (yet) has recognized that they are hypocrites. Both parties use American blood as a political tool.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;333133]No. Some of our nation's best military leaders were ones who never saw combat (e.g., Gen. George Marshall - the guy who pretty much won WWII). I know you, as an Iraq war opponent, jump to the immediate conclusion that everything ever affiliated with Bush is pure-evil, corrupt, etc., but other than you, I have never heard anyone criticize him.

In that regard, it would be nice to see Iraq war opponents or Iraq war supporters not be so one-sided. I know the war is a polarizing issue, but that doesn't make it a black and white issue. Not everything is "bad" or "good", there is some room for "I don't knows" or "undecideds."[/QUOTE]

SGG I agree. I would hope that none of our Generals have combat experience. That would be best since it means we haven't been at war.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;333133]Both parties use American blood as a political tool.[/QUOTE]

They use everything as a political tool and that is a huge reason our system is totally broke.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=FRPLG;333140]They use everything as a political tool and that is a huge reason our system is totally broke.[/quote]
Our system is not totaly broke its still the best in the world even with the problems we do have.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;333152]Our system is not totaly broke its still the best in the world even with the problems we do have.[/QUOTE]

I believe stringly the our system is broke. Whether it is better than anyone else's is irrelevant to me. Our two party system is not representitive of our populus and that is the idea that our government is supposed to be built on. Therefore to me it is broken.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;333172] Our two party system is not representitive of our populus and that is the idea that our government is supposed to be built on. Therefore to me it is broken.[/QUOTE]

How is it not?
Or are you suggesting that we make a third party called "those that don't give a shit" party?

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;333095]I always find it funny how the left bash Fox, Rush and the other news sources but they defend CNN, ABC, CBS, and the other news which lean sto the left. The one thing about Rush and the other talk shows is that they tell you up front that they lean to the right. The other news sources hide behind the "I'm a reporter and just report the news" then add their left leaning stance on the subject. I myself listen to all kinds of news form Fox, NPR, national news and many other sources. The left on the other hand calls Rush, Hanaty, and other right leaning names as they cannot stand them but then they preach free speech.[/QUOTE]

I would normally have a lot to say about this, but almost all of it would be Dem bashing, and I'm trying to cut down on that! :D

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;333111]The more I hear what Biden has to say overall, the more I like him. [/quote]

That's because his speech was stolen from a Captain and Tenille song.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;333132]The difference is that I have a report that tells me that 7 of 16 are going well. You simply have your skepticism to disbelieve that. Skepticism is usually very affected by emotion. I am simply pointing out that you say you "find it hard to believe" yet you gave no resaon why and I suspect it is because you don't really have any concrete reasons.

And where did I say it was going great? Good old fashioned misdirection with that comment if you ask me. Don't have a good argument, then just project an opinion into someone else's argument to weaken it I guess.[/QUOTE]


Look, I have no problems saying that I was against this war from the start. So yes, my outlook on what the Bush administration tells me is "progress" is a bit jaundiced. Especially when you consider that the "progress" they speak of comes with the price of blood spilled by American troops who never should have been responsible for Iraq's "progress" to begin with.

This never should have been our fight. Iraq posed NO threat to us whatsoever. Overthrowing Saddam upset the balance of power in the middle east. And instead of the misguided hope of making Iran and Syria shake in their boots at the strength and might of American military superiority in that region, they are licking their chops at the prospects of a weakened Iraq and all of their oil reserves.

No matter how they define "progress" -- it was still a dreadful foreign policy decision, it destroyed our credibility in the world, it has emboldened al Queda, increased their recruitment levels, spread our defenses way too thin, and cost the lives of over 3000 Americans and wounded nearly 30,000 more.

So, I stand by my statement. No matter the outcome, the "progress" has come at too high a price.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

Beems,

I too was against the war [I]starting[/I], but that has nothing to do with what we need to do from here. I know you will probably reply with "well they were so wrong about the war, why should I trust them now?" To that I would reply (a) Petraeus is not "they" and (b) I don't quite follow the logic "They were wrong then, so they must always be wrong."

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

i was going to start a new thread from an idea that beems gave me, but i might as well put it here. how would people around here feel if John Kerry, or Al Gore, had lead us into Iraq? somehow, i think the feelings would be alittle different

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=dmek25;333884]i was going to start a new thread from an idea that beems gave me, but i might as well put it here. how would people around here feel if John Kerry, or Al Gore, had lead us into Iraq? somehow, i think the feelings would be alittle different[/quote]

You're so right. The sentiment would have been Liberals are trying to prove they're warhawks by invading Iraq, when they're not. George Bush would have done things differently if he were in office.

But you know, hindsight is always 20/20.

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 

[quote=dmek25;333884]i was going to start a new thread from an idea that beems gave me, but i might as well put it here. how would people around here feel if John Kerry, or Al Gore, had lead us into Iraq? somehow, i think the feelings would be alittle different[/quote]

Republicans have always supported Democratic Presidents in times of war. Even when Clinton went into Bosnia, his strongest supporters were the hated neo-cons. Wilson, FDR, and Truman also had the support of Republicans in fighting their wars. The opposition of the Democrats to a President during wartime has been more common. They oppossed Lincoln in fighting slavery. They oppossed Johnson and Nixon in figting communism in Southeast Asia, and they have oppossed Bush in trying to bring Democracy to Iraq. So, yes things would have been much different.