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The 36 yard pass from Brunell to Hoag on 4th down was pretty nice, even the biggest Brunell haters have to give him some credit for that throw. Down the middle, split the coverage, and dead on accuracy.

I think MB will be fine if we needed him for a spot start, but at his age he just wears down too quickly to last an entire season as the starter.

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[quote=Buster;341752]Everyone wants to bash Brunell because they want to bash him regardless of his play, but he looked good to be on Saturday. He was 5-12 but his incompletions were drops by WRs who won't be on the team and his INT was a bobble by a WR on a pass that was right between the numbers. He threw longer passes accurately and with a LOT more zip than Collins (who was good at managing the game by playing conservatively). In fact, Brunell had the longest completion of the 6 QBs from both teams that saw the field, 36 yards.

Campbell Yards per Completion = 12.5
Brunell Yards per Completion = 11.2
Collins Yards per Completion = 7.4

Who can't throw deep?

[/quote]


I think you also have to take into consideration that Brunell had to play catch up towards the end of the game that might have inflated that statistic.

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[quote=12thMan;341358]You're so right. I don't remember seeing the down/yrds shown on screen. It was so frustrating. Then Theisman ripped the player that hit Jason Campbell as if he did it on purpose. I mean it's not flag football.[/quote]


Yeah I was so pissed about that, I had to keep on paying attention to the markers and all that. I remember them showing the downs and stuff once in a while and I was like WTF why not do this the whole game?

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[quote=Mattyk72;341760]The 36 yard pass from Brunell to Hoag on 4th down was pretty nice, even the biggest Brunell haters have to give him some credit for that throw. Down the middle, split the coverage, and dead on accuracy.

I think MB will be fine if we needed him for a spot start, but at his age he just wears down too quickly to last an entire season as the starter.[/quote]

Yep, exactly. If we were discussing him being the starter instead of backup, people would be right to bring up his age and durability. However, he's a backup and his experience is very valuable as the backup.

God forbid Campbell goes down, but if he does, we have more of a chance with Brunell than Collins, a QB who has been in 12 years and averaged 1.42 starts a season. If there's a longterm need for a backup to start, we can always just ride Mark as long as we can and then go to Collins in relief.

In that situation, our season would be shot anyways.

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[quote=Mattyk72;341760]The 36 yard pass from Brunell to Hoag on 4th down was pretty nice, even the biggest Brunell haters have to give him some credit for that throw. Down the middle, split the coverage, and dead on accuracy.

I think MB will be fine if we needed him for a spot start, but at his age he just wears down too quickly to last an entire season as the starter.[/quote]

Yeah that was a beautiful pass only to be taken out of the picture by that stupid delay of game penalty. I cannot believe the coaches would not keep that on their minds after the big pass. That is beyond stupid.

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[quote=hooskins;341763]I think you also have to take into consideration that Brunell had to play catch up towards the end of the game that might have inflated that statistic.[/quote]

So Collins relaxed because we had that huge 3 point lead? :D

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[quote=Buster;341767]Yep, exactly. If we were discussing him being the starter instead of backup, people would be right to bring up his age and durability. However, he's a backup and his experience is very valuable as the backup.

God forbid Campbell goes down, but if he does, we have more of a chance with Brunell than Collins, a QB who has been in 12 years and averaged 1.42 starts a season. If there's a longterm need for a backup to start, we can always just ride Mark as long as we can and then go to Collins in relief.

In that situation, our season would be shot anyways.[/quote]

I personally think Brunell would be the better QB in comeback situation because he is a game experienced vet. Collins would probably be better just managing the offense.

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[quote=Buster;341769]So Collins relaxed because we had that huge 3 point lead? :D[/quote]

Well you know Gibbs tends to start burning the clock starting the 2nd quarter with his ultraconservative gameplan lol.

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[quote=hooskins;341768]Yeah that was a beautiful pass only to be taken out of the picture by that stupid delay of game penalty. I cannot believe the coaches would not keep that on their minds after the big pass. That is beyond stupid.[/quote]

Yeah but like the announcers said, that's what happens when you're dealing with all these young inexperienced players. I'm not sure if MB was totally to blame on that.

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If Collins had to play in a regular season game I think we would see just as much dink and dunk as we saw last year from MB, if not more. I'm sorry but his arm is Wuerffel-esque.

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[quote=Mattyk72;341774]If Collins had to play in a regular season game I think we would see just as much dink and dunk as we saw last year from MB, if not more. I'm sorry but his arm is Wuerffel-esque.[/quote]Not that it's a bad thing. Did anyone see Brady Quinn tear up the 3rd stringers for the Lions by throwing to a no name back who was open every play running the same route? Or the super bowl last year where Manning just tore up Chicago's defense with no one but Joseph Addai to help him on similiar routes?

NFL defenses play too soft to stop a check down. Everyone is afraid to play man on the running back (and rightfully so) because that gives them less defenders to cover the receivers with. So the back rarely gets covered out of the backfield, and thus can easily create YAC.

With Todd Collins, we aren't sure yet if he can make the mid range downfield throw when given to him. Then again, Brunell has to prove that he still can make that throw, arm surgery and all, but dude was only picked 4 times last season, less than once every two games, so even if he regresses somewhat significantly this season, chances are he's probably better than Collins still.

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[quote=Mattyk72;341772]Yeah but like the announcers said, that's what happens when you're dealing with all these young inexperienced players. I'm not sure if MB was totally to blame on that.[/quote]

I agree, I dont think that penalty was the players fault. In that position the coaches should be pushing everyone to run and be timely.

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[quote=hooskins;341770]I personally think Brunell would be the better QB in comeback situation because he is a game experienced vet. Collins would probably be better just managing the offense.[/quote]

Yes, Collins would be better if we call the season lost.

If the D is playing as well as they look and Brunell has all of the offensive weapons healthy, we could still have a shot, like in 2005.

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[quote=Mattyk72;341774]If Collins had to play in a regular season game I think we would see just as much dink and dunk as we saw last year from MB, if not more. I'm sorry but his arm is Wuerffel-esque.[/quote]

I'd describe it as wiffle ball-esque.

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I think we're probably splitting hairs between the two of them, to be honest. But Collins has had a better preseason for whatever it's worth.

But let's keep two things in mind with Collins, the speed of the game kicks in another notch when the regular season rolls around. So some of those soft passes just might be going in the other direction. Also, let's say he had to step in for two or three weeks, God forbid, teams will be better prepared to face him and pick up on some of the very tendacies that even we observe. I think the guy's been a career backup for a reason.

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Yeah in the end if either of them had to play a significant amount of time, we're royally screwed.

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[quote=Mattyk72;341774]If Collins had to play in a regular season game I think we would see just as much dink and dunk as we saw last year from MB, if not more. I'm sorry but his arm is Wuerffel-esque.[/quote]

I don't think so. Collins does not have the strongest arm but he has real good timing. Through two games you can really tell he knows how to run the offense and he knows where to go with the ball. There is no hesitation at all and he comes off to his 2nd and 3rd wr's. And the pass to Lloyd was just perfect. I think the coaching staff sees this and that is why he got the nod to go in 2nd over Brunell.

Dink and dunk is OK but when it becomes the staple of your offense, or you don't have the ability to back guys off the line is where it becomes a problem and that's what happened last year.

If anyhting happened to JC I feel real comfortable that Collins could come in and get the job done. We are set at back-up QB.

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[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/]D.C. Sports Bog[/url]

This is almost a must read. Click this link & then scroll down to "Todd Collins v. Mark Brunell." Although it's a blog, he has links to 10 yr. old news about the 2 qbs, which is very interesting in hindsight.

Doesn't make either sound too good, but seems MB's reluctance to throw deep goes back to his prime. I remember at J'ville he was good, but didn't watch them enough to tell what throws he was most comfortable with.

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[quote=Mattyk72;341774]If Collins had to play in a regular season game I think we would see just as much dink and dunk as we saw last year from MB, if not more. I'm sorry but his arm is Wuerffel-esque.[/quote]


Excellent point. He can get away with check downs and short passes in the pre-season when defenses are more basic and the opposing coaches are putting their players in situations for evaluation purposes. Come September, the game speeds up dramatically and you need a QB that can stretch the defense. Otherwise, they slowly suffocate you.

Not that Brunell is Nolan Ryan but his arm does look stronger than it has since before the injury he suffered in the Giants game, December of 2005. The question is, does Collins knowledge of the offense compensate enough for his weak arm, or to put it another way, which of the two gives you the best chance to win. I would lean Brunell but it will be painful if we have to watch him play safe for three quarters and then start flinging it when all hope is nearly lost. I think that's part of the support for Collins. People are weary of Brunell's cautious style.

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[quote=Buster;341754]Patrick called Campbell Doug Williams once too and no one caught it (on the broadcast).[/quote]

Yeah Buster I heard that too. And what got me is that Joey T. didn't correct him.

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I have been impressed with the play of the defense thus far. Injury, inconsistency, and lack of depth along the O-line has caused problems with pass protection, as well as not creating much room for the runners. I do however look for improvement in that area when Samuels returns to the lineup.

I'm happy that many ugly things can go unsaid about the atempt at a block by Heyer that led to the injury to Campbell. Had that situation turned out to be more serious, I can imagine some very unplesant things would have been said about the kid at LT assigned to protect the blind side of the franchise. His feble atempt didn't get much criticizm because the injury was not serious. I have a very uneasy feeling about him having to be cast into such a vital role with such limited experience. With Suggs, and the Ravens coming to town this week-end, it may be wise if Jason does not play.

I couldn't understand all the gates around Fed-Ex Saturday night, though there might be security concerns greater than usual.

Going to enjoy the 75th Anniversary CD, something I can give to my grand-children and say I was a part of much of that history.

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[quote=12thMan;341787]I think we're probably splitting hairs between the two of them, to be honest. But Collins has had a better preseason for whatever it's worth.
[/quote]

The Colts have LOST 8 of their last 9 preseason games. That's what preseason is worth. :)

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[quote=4mrusmc;342072]Yeah Buster I heard that too. And what got me is that Joey T. didn't correct him.[/quote]

Good, I'm not crazy. Well...ok, my hearing is good.

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There were times in the game where the D would get fired up and shut them down. They all seemed to be playing with a chip on their sholders and that makes me feel comfortable with that side of the ball.

Cooley was looking amazing and had Jason not gotten hurt on that play, I think you might have seen more of Cooley looking like Tony Gonzales.