Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Buster;341931]BUT...

There is so much more involved in this case. We can't ignore or separate the moral issues from the sports issues here.

From a sports perspective, steroids in baseball are worse than that pro wrestler killing his family and himself. That's not a good way to look at things. Lives are always more important than sports, even if it's "just" the lives of animals.[/QUOTE]

Which is why I said 'from a sports perspective'.. Morality and sports don't really mix in my opnion. Athletes are entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. I don't look to anyone to be a better or worse person because they are athletically gifted. I don't see why there is always a moral compass that athletes are held to that is more or less than a construction worker.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=artmonkforhallofamein07;341879]I have a question. Does the NFL suspension begin when he gets out of jail?
I would assume so. Any info there guys?[/QUOTE]



It does not suprise me that Vick decided to plead guilty, I have felt all along that's what he would eventually do. However, he will in all likelyhood be sentenced to more than the one year, and any suspention he receives after he serves his prison sentence will have to be predicated on his signing with another team. He cannot begin a suspention until he's under contract with a team. Finding a team willing to sign him will be his biggest nightmare. I've said this before; I know of no convicted felons to play in the NFL, and if Vick is successful in doing so, he will be the first.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=Mattyk72;341927]Cats have been saying a lot lately about Vick.

You know, things like "meow, meow". I even heard one cat say "MEOW"!

Damn I'm really bored right now. :doh:[/quote]
[IMG]http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/879/whutecatzr7.jpg[/IMG]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;341950]Which is why I said 'from a sports perspective'.. Morality and sports don't really mix in my opnion. Athletes are entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. I don't look to anyone to be a better or worse person because they are athletically gifted. [B]I don't see why there is always a moral compass that athletes are held to that is more or less than a construction worker[/B].[/QUOTE]

Because thousands of kids look up to them. They are all over the place, endorsements and what not. They are held to a higher standard morally because they are famous not because it's right.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

There was an article discussing if he would ever play again. Not many teams would ever like the publicity that a convicted felony dog fighter would bring. There would literally be protests in the city that would take him by PETA. Now I do think he will be back someday. Until then, f... people with mike vick on madden.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=BigSKINBauer;341955]There was an article discussing if he would ever play again. Not many teams would ever like the publicity that a convicted felony dog fighter would bring. There would literally be protests in the city that would take him by PETA. Now I do think he will be back someday. Until then, f... people with mike vick on madden.[/quote]

Even aside from PETA and Humane Society protests (for ONCE, I'm actually agreeing with the whackos at PETA, now leave my KFC alone), there will be a lot of normal, everyday people who are just fans that would boycott games if their team signed Vick and not buy tickets. A team would be taking a lot of risks.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;341950]Which is why I said 'from a sports perspective'.. Morality and sports don't really mix in my opnion. Athletes are entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. I don't look to anyone to be a better or worse person because they are athletically gifted. [B]I don't see why there is always a moral compass that athletes are held to that is more or less than a construction worker[/B].[/QUOTE]

Anyone ever pay thousands of dollars to watch construction workers eight times a year from a hundred yards away?

If so, I've got construction tickets available.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;341917]Honestly, I think the only way he could begin the healing is to donate a couple years of his salary directly to some form of animal charity.[/QUOTE]

THATS A GOOD FUCKING IDEA......... like donate half for the next 3 years, and then, and volunteer, for the next 5 years a animal abuse centers...... plus jail time, (cause he deserves it) I live in the south and I've seen many dog fights, and its not pretty, I was young, so now, I'm all against that kind of stupid stuff........ oh yeah, back to the sentence.... 12 months in Fed, 8 in halfway house,..... he gets out, suspended, 10 games next year, and signs with whoever.......... that might be exceptable to most

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=Buster;341956]Even aside from PETA and Humane Society protests (for ONCE, I'm actually agreeing with the whackos at PETA, now leave my KFC alone), there will be a lot of normal, everyday people who are just fans that would boycott games if their team signed Vick and not buy tickets. A team would be taking a lot of risks.[/quote]
Good point. The only reason that the fans that are sticking with him in atlanta are doing so, is because they feel vick can't do wrong. Most people there are outraged and obviously it will be that much worse if he goes to a new city.

PETA already has reacted a bit to the news:
[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txvickreaction&prov=st&type=lgns]PETA reacts to Vick plea, wants further action - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

I know, but it's my opinion. HE SHOULD BE BANNED FOR LIFE FROM THE NFL. Basically what he done is MURDER. if it were one of us we would be in jail already no bond or anything.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=Buster;341926]You're actually saying that fixing a basketball game is worse than forcing dogs to fight and then torturing them and killing them? Wow.[/quote]

Earlier on this site there was a discussion to which was "worse". I think most of us agreed that morally dog fighting is far and beyond worse. But for the sport the NBA scandal is. This is a player and something that is more important than football. The NBA scandal is league officials ruining the integrity of the game. The NBA scandal will be talked about 10-15 years down the road and counter measures will be put into place and the game will have a knock on its sholder. Vicks situation has nothing to do with the integrity of footaball. Maybe the integrity of its players but that can happen to anyone in any sport and in many professions.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=BrudLee;341964]Anyone ever pay thousands of dollars to watch construction workers eight times a year from a hundred yards away?

If so, I've got construction tickets available.[/quote]

Nice! got to get me some of them.
I'm sure they've all passed their drug tests & adhered to the very strict code of conduct standards of their industry as well. WE all know that construction workers never get DUIs, beat their wives (they just wear wife beaters), or steal anything. :)

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

It saddens me to see how Vick threw away a promising career over this illegal activity. I do think he'll be back to play in the NFL, talent trumps everything. This is America, home of the second chance. Even Vick deserves one.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Cowell;341954]Because thousands of kids look up to them. They are all over the place, endorsements and what not. They are held to a higher standard morally because they are famous not because it's right.[/QUOTE]

If kids look up to athletes for anything else than their athletic ability then that is the parents fault.. Because they get paid millions, are seen by thousands and are admired by kids of all ages doesn't make them any more morally responsible than a teacher, pastor, salesman or construction worker. It's a parents job to teach that and not just when something like this goes horribly wrong.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee;341964]Anyone ever pay thousands of dollars to watch construction workers eight times a year from a hundred yards away?

If so, I've got construction tickets available.[/QUOTE]


I would Like a front row seat!

[url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=CWEISlPn_FM]YouTube - hot women using power tools[/url]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Personally I don't see why the NFL wouldn't take this opportunity to ban him for life and avoid the public relations nightmare of ever having him wear an NFL uniform again. You've got a guy who has been engaged in illegal dogfighting activities since 2001 (the year he first came into the NFL). You've got a guy who has been illegally gambling during that entire time. You've got a guy that a significant amount of the population (i.e. NFL fans) are going to absolutely hate forever (whether that's right or wrong is no concern to the NFL.......the simple fact is MANY fans will never forgive him for this). So what does the NFL gain by ever allowing Vick back in? I see a lot of downside (protests, image problems, etc.), but not a lot of upside. On the other hand, you suspend him indefinitely/for life and you are instantly a higher category/class of organized sport than any other.

Regardless of what my or anyone else's opinion is of what the punishment SHOULD be, from the NFL's perspective, I'm not so sure this issue ever calms down to the point that the NFL feels it's better to allow Vick to play in the NFL over keeping the ban going.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Sounds like he could get an indefinite suspension from the NFL, so it just could turn out to be for life.

I didn't realize this, but say he's out of the league until 2010 at earliest. He would be coming back at age 31... not sure how high his stock would even be at that point along with all the baggage he'll be carrying.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=Mattyk72;342069]Sounds like he could get an indefinite suspension from the NFL, so it just could turn out to be for life.

I didn't realize this, but say he's out of the league until 2010 at earliest. He would be coming back at age 31... not sure how high his stock would even be at that point along with all the baggage he'll be carrying.[/quote]

His STOCK, would amount to BLACK Friday! Vick's good ole days are gone.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=mooby;341924]But cats have no say in this discussion. At least not until someone finds a Cat to English translator. [/quote]


My wife has a pussy and I have no idea what that thing wants!

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=jgalecpa;342084]My wife has a pussy and I have no idea what that thing wants![/quote]

It probably wants Michael Vick!

Anyhoo, I was wrong on this one. I didn't expect the Feds to dropkick him over a few orders of orange beef but oh well.

After Atlanta cuts him, should we pick him up? HA HA HAHA

Don't forget the soap and the toothbrush, Mike.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;342091]

After Atlanta cuts him, should we pick him up? HA HA HAHA

Don't forget the soap and the toothbrush, Mike.[/quote]

Heck, we took Deion, didn't we?

And I think Amazon has a good 'Soap on a Rope" collection!!!

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Who cares about Mike Vick. I am so sick of hearing about this 24hrs a day on ESPN, and Sports radio. It seems like ESPN can't go two mins without mentioning this story, and it is really getting annoying.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=RMSkins;342111]Who cares about Mike Vick. I am so sick of hearing about this 24hrs a day on ESPN, and Sports radio. It seems like ESPN can't go two mins without mentioning this story, and it is really getting annoying.[/quote]

I hear there was a time in this country when people who engaged in this kind of ugly behavior were ostracized and then ignored. It would have been bad form to mention them in polite company. Now, we celebrate them. We get down in the muck with them and scrutinize every move they make from every angle. It would be nice if ESPN and the others would simply let us look away.

They do this every year, though. Last year it was the guy who plays WR in Dallas. It's as if they have a staff meeting where the head guy begins:

"Okay football season is coming. How can we avoid talking about football?"

Lackey1 "Put Kornheiser in the booth!"
Lackey2 "Better yet, put entertainment figures in the booth so they can promote their projects during the game!"
Lackey3 "Two words: Mike Vick!"

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=70Chip;342116]I hear there was a time in this country when people who engaged in this kind of ugly behavior were ostracized and then ignored. It would have been bad form to mention them in polite company. Now, we celebrate them. We get down in the muck with them and scrutinize every move they make from every angle. It would be nice if ESPN and the others would simply let us look away.

They do this every year, though. Last year it was the guy who plays WR in Dallas. It's as if they have a staff meeting where the head guy begins:

"Okay football season is coming. How can we avoid talking about football?"

Lackey1 "Put Kornheiser in the booth!"
Lackey2 "Better yet, put entertainment figures in the booth so they can promote their projects during the game!"
Lackey3 "Two words: Mike Vick!"[/quote]
I couldn't agree with you more.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;342116]I hear there was a time in this country when people who engaged in this kind of ugly behavior were ostracized and then ignored. It would have been bad form to mention them in polite company. Now, we celebrate them. We get down in the muck with them and scrutinize every move they make from every angle. It would be nice if ESPN and the others would simply let us look away.

They do this every year, though. Last year it was the guy who plays WR in Dallas. It's as if they have a staff meeting where the head guy begins:

"Okay football season is coming. How can we avoid talking about football?"

Lackey1 "Put Kornheiser in the booth!"
Lackey2 "Better yet, put entertainment figures in the booth so they can promote their projects during the game!"
Lackey3 "Two words: Mike Vick!"[/QUOTE]

With 24 hour media coverage you can't ignore it.

ESPN was not the only network to devote many hours to this MAJOR (had to capitalize for emphasis) story. FOX News, CNN and MSNBC were all over it as well

Again, it's a major story and ESPN wouldn't be doing its job if it didn't provide full coverage of the biggest stories

ESPN is part of one of the biggest international companies, why shouldn't it take advantage of all of Disney's properties? Plus, keep in mind that MNF isn't meant to appeal just to football fans, but to all television viewers

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=SmootSmack;342125]With 24 hour media coverage you can't ignore it.

ESPN was not the only network to devote many hours to this MAJOR (had to capitalize for emphasis) story. FOX News, CNN and MSNBC were all over it as well

Again, it's a major story and ESPN wouldn't be doing its job if it didn't provide full coverage of the biggest stories

ESPN is part of one of the biggest international companies, why shouldn't it take advantage of all of Disney's properties? Plus, keep in mind that MNF isn't meant to appeal just to football fans, but to all television viewers[/quote]
Yeah that is the problem with ESPN, and all of the other major news providers they blow stories like these up to unbelievable proportions it just becomes unbearable to listen to it anymore. Isn't ESPN a sports network? Shouldn't MNF be more appealing to football fans instead of the casual MNF viewer? Instead of bringing in people such as Dennis Miller, and Tony Kornheiser in the booth, who talk about EVERYTHING other than the game, ESPN should be bringing in real analysts, who actually pay attention to the game. By the way I understand the Vick story is huge news, but the same things are being said about the story in EVERY ESPN show, it could be a girls volleyball game, and somehow ESPN would manage to sneak in something about the Vick story. I understand it's ESPN's job to be providing us with this story, but it's becoming really overblown. Sorry, this has been bothering me the last few weeks, and I needed to get it off my chest.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=RMSkins;342129]Yeah that is the problem with ESPN, and all of the other major news providers. Isn't ESPN a sports network? Shouldn't MNF be more appealing to football fans instead of the casual MNF viewer? Instead of bringing in people such as Dennis Miller, and Tony Kornheiser in the booth, who talk about EVERYTHING other than the game, ESPN should be bringing in real analysts, who actually pay attention to the game. By the way I understand the Vick story is huge news, but the same things are being said about the story in EVERY ESPN show, it could be a girls volleyball game, and somehow ESPN would manage to sneak in something about the Vick story. I understand it's ESPN's job to be providing us with this story, but it's becoming really overblown. Sorry, this has been bothering me the last few weeks, and I needed to get it off my chest.[/QUOTE]

I guess my most simple answer is...then don't watch.

From a purely business standpoint, ESPN can't just appeal only to diehard sports fans. You can't grow an audience and revenue if you're just reaching out to the same people over and over again.

And ESPN has plenty of "real analysts"

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=SmootSmack;342125]With 24 hour media coverage you can't ignore it.

ESPN was not the only network to devote many hours to this MAJOR (had to capitalize for emphasis) story. FOX News, CNN and MSNBC were all over it as well

Again, it's a major story and ESPN wouldn't be doing its job if it didn't provide full coverage of the biggest stories

ESPN is part of one of the biggest international companies, why shouldn't it take advantage of all of Disney's properties? Plus, keep in mind that MNF isn't meant to appeal just to football fans, but to all television viewers[/quote]

If Fox, CNN, and MSNBC all jumped off a bridge...

As for MNF, I think there is some room for jocularity and pop culture but the current broadcast overdoes it. I think most people still tune in to the football game expecting to see... the football game.

And, I've said this before but these criticisms are not intended to get a rise out of you or anyone else and I hope you don't take offense or even feel the need to act as an apologist or spokesperson on their behalf.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;342133]If Fox, CNN, and MSNBC all jumped off a bridge...

As for MNF, I think there is some room for jocularity and pop culture but the current broadcast overdoes it. I think most people still tune in to the football game expecting to see... the football game.

And, I've said this before but these criticisms are not intended to get a rise out of you or anyone else and I hope you don't take offense or even feel the need to act as an apologist or spokesperson on their behalf.[/QUOTE]

All I meant with the network comparisons is don't act like it's only ESPN.

As for the apologist/spokesperson part, I mean it's only natural for ESPN to get grief. When you're at the top, people want to knock you down. I try not to let it get to me, but sometimes I just feel the need to point out what some people aren't aware of "behind the scenes"

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=SmootSmack;342135]All I meant with the network comparisons is don't act like it's only ESPN.

As for the apologist/spokesperson part, I mean it's only natural for ESPN to get grief. When you're at the top, people want to knock you down. I try not to let it get to me, but sometimes I just feel the need to point out what some people aren't aware of "behind the scenes"[/quote]

The real problem is with the culture's appetite for all this - with our appetite for it. I think it would be refreshing, though, if some entity would stand up and say, "we're" not going along for the ride this time."

On a happier note, I think Parcells is great as a TV guy. He always has something interesting to say. I think there will be a key moment in the Cowboys season this year when everyone will say, "Parcells would never have done something that stupid." I think they are whistling passed the graveyard if they think Wade Phillips will be able to do what Parcells could not.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Back to Vick. I think if he ever came back to the NFL it wouldn't be as a QB. I think he'd finally be a RB or WR or probably even simply a kick returner.

But that should be the least of his concerns

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

All of this talk reminds me of the arguement that Adam Schefter and Mike Mayock got into during this past Draft. It had to do with the whole Randy Moss thing. Mayock wanted to keep the focus on football whereas Schefter kept talking about the Moss dilema. There are those who wish that the focus would remain on the sport, but Americans as a whole have a thirst for the Drama. For once I agree Chip, The media is not the problem; the thirst of the majority of Americans is. They only give the majority what they want.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=SmootSmack;342140]Back to Vick. I think if he ever came back to the NFL it wouldn't be as a QB. I think he'd finally be a RB or WR or probably even simply a kick returner.

But that should be the least of his concerns[/quote]
I would love to see Vick play RB. I think that would be really interesting to see if he could adjust from being a QB to a RB, but as you said Vick should be happy if he can even make it back to the NFL.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=SmootSmack;342140]Back to Vick. I think if he ever came back to the NFL it wouldn't be as a QB. I think he'd finally be a RB or WR or probably even simply a kick returner.

But that should be the least of his concerns[/quote]

I can see him being utilized much like ARE was in Pittsburgh, or even as Bush is used in New Orleans.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;342144]I can see him being utilized much like ARE was in Pittsburgh, [B]or even as Bush is used in New Orleans[/B].[/QUOTE]

They're going to blame him for the dam breaking?

Oh, the [u]other[/u] Bush...

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;342135]All I meant with the network comparisons is don't act like it's only ESPN.

As for the apologist/spokesperson part, I mean it's only natural for ESPN to get grief. When you're at the top, people want to knock you down. I try not to let it get to me, but sometimes I just feel the need to point out what some people aren't aware of "behind the scenes"[/QUOTE]

While there is some validity to your point, as an insider myself (not at ESPN but previously at another national network) you have to admit these days the media 'creates' more out of a story than simply reporting it. There have been no less than 12 'experts' weighing in on the same story, saying the same things in different words. There is a difference between spinning a story forward and rehashing the same information we've had for 24 hours to fill up time on the rundown.

If I was the Bad Newz kennel funder
 

Vick should be bloodied, shot, electrocuted, hung or all together. Not to forget cropping his ears as a pup with a steak knife. Let's move on to subjects that warrant intelligent(us) people giving attention.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;342208]While there is some validity to your point, as an insider myself (not at ESPN but previously at another national network) you have to admit these days the media 'creates' more out of a story than simply reporting it. There have been no less than 12 'experts' weighing in on the same story, saying the same things in different words. There is a difference between spinning a story forward and rehashing the same information we've had for 24 hours to fill up time on the rundown.[/QUOTE]

True. It's a fine line really. We just got out of a two hour meeting here arguing over how much coverage we are and should/should not be giving Vick. Lest anyone think we don't think about these things.

CNNSI right?

Re: If I was the Bad Newz kennel funder
 

[quote=PhxRedSkin;342241]Vick should be bloodied, shot, electrocuted, hung or all together. Not to forget cropping his ears as a pup with a steak knife. Let's move on to subjects that warrant intelligent(us) people giving attention.[/quote]


You forgot drowned.

I've always been a proponent of punishing people with he crime THEY inflicted on someone else.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;342281]True. It's a fine line really. We just got out of a two hour meeting here arguing over how much coverage we are and should/should not be giving Vick. Lest anyone think we don't think about these things.

CNNSI right?[/QUOTE]

The ill fated marriage of a sports magazine and a sports department at a news organziation.. Fun while it lasted, happy I'm not doing it anymore.