Re: Right Tackle
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;350421]Well, I trust the coaching staff to know if Heyer needs to go in or not.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. May the best guy play. If Wade is banged up, then start Heyer. Either way protect Jason, and lets beat the Eagles.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[quote=Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor;348986]Actually I'm glad that Heyer is playing right tackle now. He is more versatile and more finesse than Jansen which fits the Al Saunders offense the best. [/quote]

Why do some people think they can pick players for a particular coaches scheme better than the coach? Heyer vs. Wade is debatable, but Heyer vs. Jansen isn't even a contest. While I was very impressed Heyer's performance, he's a true rookie while Jansen is a seasoned veteran and pro bowler.

As far as Wade vs. Heyer, I think that decision should be based on performance. Heyer looked good Sunday. If Wade struggles against the Eagles, I wouldn't be surprised if Gibbs pulls him.

Re: Right Tackle
 

Heyer has proven himself to be a capable backup on both sides of the line. Wade has proven himself to be measurably better on the Right. Start Wade, enjoy the benefits of Heyer being able to use his versatility if either tackle needs spelling (or, God forbid, gets hurt).

Re: Right Tackle
 

I voted Wade, but if the coaches go w/Heyer, I'll be happy cause that would mean they really see him as a long-term starter, and we really need some youth & depth on the o line.

Re: Right Tackle
 

I definitely want Todd Wade starting. We all saw how he filled in for Jansen so brilliantly in the Saints, and Giants games last year.

Re: Right Tackle
 

If healthy I'm going with a proven right tackle in Wade, and he filled in great for JJ last year if not even a notch better. Wade gets the starting spot, but I really like Heyer great pickup and story, hard to believe he already playing a big role.

Just goes to show how important depth is.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[quote=Southpaw;350427]Why do some people think they can pick players for a particular coaches scheme better than the coach? Heyer vs. Wade is debatable, but Heyer vs. Jansen isn't even a contest. While I was very impressed Heyer's performance, he's a true rookie while Jansen is a seasoned veteran and pro bowler.

As far as Wade vs. Heyer, I think that decision should be based on performance. Heyer looked good Sunday. If Wade struggles against the Eagles, I wouldn't be surprised if Gibbs pulls him.[/quote]

Wow, talk about exaggeration. Jansen has NEVER made the pro bowl. He's a decent RT. He gets overrated when it comes to talent because he's such a stand-up guy. But he's no all-star.

Wade stepped in last year during the Giants and the Saints games and the offense didn't miss a beat. His pass protection was phenomenal, facing some serious pass rushers in Strahan and Will Smith/Charles Grant in those games.

A healthy Wade is no downgrade from Jon Jansen. If Wade can't play with that shoulder, then you've got no choice but to go to Heyer. But on Sunday, Heyer showed that he plays too high and too often gets pushed back into the QB on a bull-rush. Do you feel comfortable with him facing Jevon Kearse & Darren Howard without TE help? If so, you don't know much about line play. Heyer has adequate footwork to stay in front of defenders well enough, but he doesn't keep himself low enough to prevent the bull rush. He hasn't proven he can hold up against a bull rush, and the team felt that they needed to use Cooley to help him on Saturday.

Wade has proven he can stand up to solid pass rushers; he did so last year. Unless you want Cooley to finish with numbers circa Brandon Lloyd in 2006, they you need to go with Wade. I just can't understand why people would say Heyer is the choice.

Re: Right Tackle
 

Per Coach Gibbs on Redskins Radio, it's Wade against Philly.

[URL="http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=4179"]Redskins Radio: Daily @ 12 Noon ET[/URL]

He talks about Springs too. Says they were just being careful.

Re: Right Tackle
 

I have a picture of Jon Jansen on the field on the play he went down. Do Not click if you don't like looking at pictures like this.

[url=http://bp3.blogger.com/_3ZJuj_RcIcI/RubfrNdXbJI/AAAAAAAAAZU/3BAMdw49ur4/s1600-h/backwards+ankle.jpg]backwards+ankle.jpg (image)[/url]

That's pretty gruesome right there.

Re: Right Tackle
 

Wade helped us compile 161 rushing yards last year against the Saints filling in for Janson. And he is a better than average pass protector too. Wade over Heyer and hopefully we don't see Heyer unless someone needs a blow.

Re: Right Tackle
 

I'm surprised so many have said Wade over Heyer after how well Heyer played last week.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;350559]Wow, talk about exaggeration. Jansen has NEVER made the pro bowl. He's a decent RT. He gets overrated when it comes to talent because he's such a stand-up guy. But he's no all-star.

Wade stepped in last year during the Giants and the Saints games and the offense didn't miss a beat. His pass protection was phenomenal, facing some serious pass rushers in Strahan and Will Smith/Charles Grant in those games.

A healthy Wade is no downgrade from Jon Jansen. If Wade can't play with that shoulder, then you've got no choice but to go to Heyer. But on Sunday, Heyer showed that he plays too high and too often gets pushed back into the QB on a bull-rush. Do you feel comfortable with him facing Jevon Kearse & Darren Howard without TE help? If so, you don't know much about line play. Heyer has adequate footwork to stay in front of defenders well enough, but he doesn't keep himself low enough to prevent the bull rush. He hasn't proven he can hold up against a bull rush, and the team felt that they needed to use Cooley to help him on Saturday.

Wade has proven he can stand up to solid pass rushers; he did so last year. Unless you want Cooley to finish with numbers circa Brandon Lloyd in 2006, they you need to go with Wade. I just can't understand why people would say Heyer is the choice.[/QUOTE]

Good post, Schneed. Totally agree, as do the coaches, no doubt. I really like Heyer and with luck he'll develop into a starter for us. But now, he's still an UDFA with minimal game experience. He did a great job filling in, but Wade is the right move for RT.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[quote=Schneed10;350559]Wow, talk about exaggeration. Jansen has NEVER made the pro bowl. He's a decent RT. He gets overrated when it comes to talent because he's such a stand-up guy. But he's no all-star.

Wade stepped in last year during the Giants and the Saints games and the offense didn't miss a beat. His pass protection was phenomenal, facing some serious pass rushers in Strahan and Will Smith/Charles Grant in those games.

A healthy Wade is no downgrade from Jon Jansen. If Wade can't play with that shoulder, then you've got no choice but to go to Heyer. But on Sunday, Heyer showed that he plays too high and too often gets pushed back into the QB on a bull-rush. Do you feel comfortable with him facing Jevon Kearse & Darren Howard without TE help? If so, you don't know much about line play. Heyer has adequate footwork to stay in front of defenders well enough, but he doesn't keep himself low enough to prevent the bull rush. He hasn't proven he can hold up against a bull rush, and the team felt that they needed to use Cooley to help him on Saturday.

Wade has proven he can stand up to solid pass rushers; he did so last year. Unless you want Cooley to finish with numbers circa Brandon Lloyd in 2006, they you need to go with Wade. I just can't understand why people would say Heyer is the choice.[/quote]

I thought Jansen had made a Pro Bowl, but apparently not. I retract that comment, but as far as everything else I said, I stand by it.

Jansen is at the very least, above average. If Wade was on par with Jansen as far as ability, he'd be starting somewhere. And suggesting that the only reason Jansen is highly regarded is because he's a "stand-up guy" is a little ridiculous. If Gibbs and Bugel actually thought that Wade was a better tackle than Jansen, Wade would've been the opening day starter, but instead, he wasn't even on the active roster. I don't understand why some people feel they're better talent evaluators than the coaches...

As far as Heyer, his performace was very strong for a true rookie. Blocking too high is a fixable problem. And he did happen to be blocking arguably the best defensive end in the league, so I'm willing to cut him a little slack on his technique. And I never said that Heyer should be the starter. I actually think that Wade should be the starter against Philly, but I won't be surprised if Heyer gets a bit of playing time. Coach Gibbs didn't immediately name Wade the starter against Philly, so at the very least, he was considering Heyer.

Re: Right Tackle
 

At this point in their respective careers I don't see a big difference between Jansen and Wade. I'm a big Jansen guy but let's be honest, he's lost a bit from his game the last few years and the injuries seem to be compounding the issue. Jansen has been a very solid pro, but he's not an elite tackle.

As much as I hated seeing Jansen go down, a part of me is glad that it wasn't Samuels instead.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[quote=Mattyk72;351132]At this point in their respective careers I don't see a big difference between Jansen and Wade. I'm a big Jansen guy but let's be honest, he's lost a bit from his game the last few years and the injuries seem to be compounding the issue. Jansen has been a very solid pro, but he's not an elite tackle. [/quote]

I agree that the injuries have slowed Jansen a bit, and I actually never really considered him elite, but I still don't believe for a second that a healthy Wade is better than a healthy Jansen. And obviously the coaching staff doesn't either.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[quote=Mattyk72;351132]At this point in their respective careers I don't see a big difference between Jansen and Wade. I'm a big Jansen guy but let's be honest, he's lost a bit from his game the last few years and the injuries seem to be compounding the issue. Jansen has been a very solid pro, but he's not an elite tackle.

As much as I hated seeing Jansen go down, a part of me is glad that it wasn't Samuels instead.[/quote]


That's the way I feel too, though I was hesitant to bring the topic up. I guess the thing I was hesitant to say was this: We may be better off with Wade or Heyer at this point. Jansen got pushed around from time to time. There it is.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[quote=Southpaw;351135]I agree that the injuries have slowed Jansen a bit, and I actually never really considered him elite, but I still don't believe for a second that a healthy Wade is better than a healthy Jansen. And obviously the coaching staff doesn't either.[/quote]

It would have been interesting if Wade was around when Jansen was re-signed.

Comparing their contracts I don't see where Jansen gives the team much more bang for the buck.

Jansen is a very likable guy, it's hard to not root for him. But I think we tend to overvalue him as a result.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[quote=70Chip;351137]That's the way I feel too, though I was hesitant to bring the topic up. I guess the thing I was hesitant to say was this: We may be better off with Wade or Heyer at this point. Jansen got pushed around from time to time. There it is.[/quote]

Heyer no, Wade maybe.

Heyer has done a solid job but if you watch the game again from Sunday he had a lot of help from the TE.

There's no way I'd want to risk going with Heyer for the long-term right now. But he's definitely an intriguing prospect and a nice find by the Redskins.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[quote=Mattyk72;351138]Jansen is a very likable guy, it's hard to not root for him. But I think we tend to overvalue him as a result.[/quote]

I'm of the opinion that people are overvaluing a journeyman backup lineman, but I guess we'll figure that out over the next several weeks.

Re: Right Tackle
 

Read my ealier post, Wade is not a journey man. He was a big time right tackle that got hurt. He got a five year 30 million dollar contract from the Texans. When that was alot of money.

Re: Right Tackle
 

I think it is Wade's job to lose. He has played the position since he was on the pee-wee team and has the right size and build to play the position. I think Heyer played a great game against the Dolphins but he is only a rookie. I think he'll give us quality as at a backup for both left and right tackle giving us some depth we haven't had in awhile. But I think our line should be ok as long everyone else can stay healthy. I feel so sorry for Jansen and hopefully this injury doesn't mark the end of his career which it very well could.

Re: Right Tackle
 

Why is [I]this[/I] injury, which is nearly the same as the one suffered by our starting right guard Randy Thomas, going to end Jon's career. Did your mom tell you that?

Re: Right Tackle
 

Wade has started 86 games at tackle in the NFL. Heyer? ZERO. Go with experience. Campbell's health is too important to groom a project at this point. Heyer is already a pleasant surprise. No need to throw him to the wolves and risk his confidence and our season.

Re: Right Tackle
 

I chose Heyer. The guy played well enough to earn another chance to see if he's the real deal.

I'd say activate Wade, then get him ready if Heyer starts to fall apart. If all hell breaks loose, then pull Heyer and put Wade in.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;352122]I chose Heyer. The guy played well enough to earn another chance to see if he's the real deal.

I'd say activate Wade, then get him ready if Heyer starts to fall apart. If all hell breaks loose, then pull Heyer and put Wade in.[/QUOTE]

Wade should undoubtedly be the starter. Wade is a solid vet who, according to coaches and players, is better than Jansen at pass-protection and is good in the run game. We're paying him like a starter and he should earn his pay.

Heyer is a nice find, [I]considering he's an undrafted rookie free agent[/I]. I know we (myself included) love undrafted free agents and root for the underdog, but I have seen nothing which leads me to believe that he should start. He got flat out beat by Kiesel in the preseason and allowed Jason Taylor to beat him for a sack. Heyer's presence, or Wade's absence, on the line also forces coaches to keep Cooley in to block more often. Don't get me wrong, I like Heyer and want to see him develop, but he's just not ready yet.

As GMScud said, why experiment at RT with Heyer when we have a solid RT in Wade and when such experiments could lead to an injury to Jason Campbell? What would people say if Heyer was left one-on-one with a DE, the DE beat Heyer, and JC was injured? My guess is they'd ridicule Gibbs for letting Heyer start despite the Heyer-Keisel-Campbell incident.

Re: Right Tackle
 

[quote=Monksdown;351519]Why is [I]this[/I] injury, which is nearly the same as the one suffered by our starting right guard Randy Thomas, going to end Jon's career. Did your mom tell you that?[/quote]


I personally think that sadly, this will be the last time Jon is in a Skins uniform.

The management's current 'Flight to youth', and the history of injury combined with age conspire against him.

Gotta play Wade, IMHO (actually, my momma told me to say that)

J-Dawg

Re: Right Tackle
 

Yeah, Jon Jansen is getting old. I'm not sure how much he has on his contract left but I can almost guarantee you when his contract his up he won't be wearing a Skins uniform.