Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=Cowell;350779]This is awful, I hope the Patriots get punished for this. There is no need to cheat and it's not like your team is the Browns. You have a winning history these past few years and you a ton of talent. Why cheat?[/QUOTE]

Did it ever cross your mind that maybe the reason they are winning is cause they are cheating?
They have a lot of talent, sure, but in years past they never really had outstanding talent and still won...how? This explains a lot.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep;350789]A tainted dynasty? kinda like Bonds and the home run thing (not really, but I am so tired of the pats...)[/QUOTE]

I actually don't think it's that far fetched. I mean, look at the Rams during the super bowl. After watching that game I left shaking my head asking how in the world they knew everything the Rams were doing. There have been several games I have watched over the years and wondered that exact same thing, and I even asked "how they hell did they know they were going to run that play?" But I shook it off as good preparation. I know better now...now I feel all their wins are tainted.
Put up the asterisk!!!!

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

This isn't the first time the Pats have been reportedly stealing signals from other teams with the aid of photos/video. I say take away their 1st round pick and make them forfeit the game against the Jets.

I pray the Commish is VERY harsh.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;350796]This isn't the first time the Pats have been reportedly stealing signals from other teams with the aid of photos/video. I say take away their 1st round pick and make them forfeit the game against the Jets.

I pray the Commish is VERY harsh.[/QUOTE]

I 100% agree! Mark Schlereth just said they should give the win to the Jets too. I think it's a great idea. Show them the NFL means business.

Let's face it, if they lose a 3rd and a 5th rounder (seems to be the popular comment right now) who cares? If you could win 3 super bowls by cheating like this and only lose a 3rd and a 5th round pick, would you do it? I guarantee every team out there would! Send a real message, give them the loss and a 1st round pick!!!
Love the idea sheriff!

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

it def taints their wins,I hope they can find out how far back this goes,if they were doing it the players would have to be in on it,wouldnt they?Or at least the player on the field who calls the signals for the defense,should they be punished too?
I've been nuetral on Belichek,I've always liked Brady,till he dumped Bridget after knocking her up and having nothing to do with her during her pregnancy,meanwhile hes out with some other hottie,Ijust cant respect a man who knocks somebody up then leaves them for another woman while their pregnant

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

This to me is the part that is the most potentially explosive:

"The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game."

If they are/were listening in on the other teams communications, then Belichek should receive a suspension. This is far worse than stealing hand signals. Hand signals by their very nature are in the public domain if you will. Teams understand that there is a risk inherent in using them because they cannot be concealed. Listening to wireless radio communication is more akin to bugging the visiting locker room.

Update: PFT says that the accusation is that the Patriots were miking their own defensive players to record the other team's audibles at the line of scrimmage and then matching that audio with overhead game video so that they could give the players a kind of translation of the audibles at half time. This would explain why the extra radio channels would potentially be necessary. This cheating would be in addition to taping the defensive signals which is apparently unrelated. "Entreprenurial" would be the word to define this approach to poor sportsmanship.

Update 2: PFT is now calling for Belichek to be suspended or even [I]fired[/I]. They like so many others before them have obviously discovered the cure for what ails them - reading my posts.

[URL="http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm"]ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet[/URL]

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

What's the realistic chance that Goodell will come down hard on these guys? I think very slim. Maybe a couple of midrounders in the 2008 draft. I think the commish will be considering backing off the heavy-handed penalties in order to show that he's not a tyrant. Kind of sucks for the individual players that have been punished thus far, though.

On the other hand, he may come down extremely hard like forfeiture of the game and several draft picks in order say "I really AM cleaning this shit up!"

Thid will be one of the most intriguing decisions that he makes. When he goes, I think the fans will thank him but the personnel in the NFL may hate everything about him.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

I can't remember a time in my lifetime when a professional team has been forced to forfeit a game ex post facto. Can anyone else?

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

There was a period in the late eighties when the Giants won like six straight games against Gibbs and the Redskins. In those pre-radio days the Redskins used hand signals for all their offensive plays. It seems obvious now that the Giants and their defensive coordinator were probably, most likely stealing all those signals. I think there should be a full investigation.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=70Chip;350849]There was a period in the late eighties when the Giants won like six straight games against Gibbs and the Redskins. In those pre-radio days the Redskins used hand signals for all their offensive plays. It seems obvious now that the Giants and their defensive coordinator were probably, most likely stealing all those signals. I think there should be a full investigation.[/quote]

Hmmm...and Belichick was defensive coordinator on that team, which I'm sure you were inferring. Why didn't he cheat when he coached he Browns? Actually, maybe he did since they did get a little better.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

Wow, I remember the days when the Patriots were the team to make fun of. Then, suddenly, they're the best team in the league this decade. And...it could all be because they cheat to win.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

Suddenly, Bill Belicheck's "defensive genius" seems so obvious...

(Wild Speculation: Bill Parcells could only win a Superbowl when Belicheck was his Defensive Coordinator. Hmm.......)

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

Check out the bottom of this article, which, like PFT, is reporting that the Pats may have stolen radio signals. If true, Belichick should be suspended for 8 games and the Pats should lose their first day picks.

[url]http://news.com.com/8300-10784_3-7-0.html?keyword=radio+frequency[/url]

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;350804]it def taints their wins,I hope they can find out how far back this goes,if they were doing it the players would have to be in on it,wouldnt they?Or at least the player on the field who calls the signals for the defense,should they be punished too?
I've been nuetral on Belichek,I've always liked Brady,till he dumped Bridget after knocking her up and having nothing to do with her during her pregnancy,meanwhile hes out with some other hottie,Ijust cant respect a man who knocks somebody up then leaves them for another woman while their pregnant[/QUOTE]

I don't like Brady...but from what I understand, she tricked him into unprotected sex, likely for purpose of having his child. Hard to say no to a hottie at any time...it was their "goodbye sex".

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;350889]I don't like Brady...but from what I understand, she tricked him into unprotected sex, likely for purpose of having his child. Hard to say no to a hottie at any time...it was their "goodbye sex".[/QUOTE]

He fell inside her ;)

But seriously, the shameful reality is that he's not the first guy to leave a pregnant girlfriend.

As to the Patriots' issues, the NFL should enact NHL rules and have the Pats play a man down all season long :)

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;350890]He fell inside her ;)

But seriously, the shameful reality is that he's not the first guy to leave a pregnant girlfriend.

As to the Patriots' issues, the NFL should enact NHL rules and have the Pats play a man down all season long :)[/QUOTE]

Well, I think he already left before they knew she was pregnant. Anywho, it was likely a sperm donor cause like I said, Brady is a fudgepacker.

I REALLY like the idea of taking the win away and losing the 1st round pick...that sends a clear and stern message to the NFL. Not just a meezly slap on the wrist with a 3rd and 5th rounder. I'd take a punishment of those 2 draft picks for 3 super bowl wins.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

Wait, wasn't Eric Mangini a former member of Belichick's coaching staff? So the guy who probably used to willingly participate in this kind of underhanded crap is now complaining about it because it's being used against his new team?

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=dgack;350900]Wait, wasn't Eric Mangini a former member of Belichick's coaching staff? So the guy who probably used to willingly participate in this kind of underhanded crap is now complaining about it because it's being used against his new team?[/QUOTE]

That's probably how he knew.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=jsarno;350912]That's probably how he knew.[/quote]

Exactly, which makes him a guilty accomplice for God knows how many years the Pats have been doing this.

All that moral high ground crap Mangini is trying to stand on is total baloney, it's just him trying to one-up his old boss and it's pathetic. Both of them are classless in my book if this turns out to be true.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=dgack;350914]Exactly, which makes him a guilty accomplice for God knows how many years the Pats have been doing this.

All that moral high ground crap Mangini is trying to stand on is total baloney, it's just him trying to one-up his old boss and it's pathetic. Both of them are classless in my book if this turns out to be true.[/QUOTE]


Can't really argue with that.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=dgack;350914]Exactly, which makes him a guilty accomplice for God knows how many years the Pats have been doing this.

All that moral high ground crap Mangini is trying to stand on is total baloney, it's just him trying to one-up his old boss and it's pathetic. Both of them are classless in my book if this turns out to be true.[/QUOTE]

And, of course, Belichick is a Parcells protege. I'll bet Parcells was filming the Redskins' offense in the Giants' 17-0 NFC Championship win back in 1987.

To make it fair, we should just give Gibbs another ring so he can go for 5 this season

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;350919]And, of course, Belichick is a Parcells protege. I'll bet Parcells was filming the Redskins' offense in the Giants' 17-0 NFC Championship win back in 1987.

To make it fair, we should just give Gibbs another ring so he can go for 5 this season[/quote]

Yeah but then we'd be stooping to their level. Let's let Joe win it fair and square. Remember, class and honor are what seperates us from them.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=dgack;350923]Yeah but then we'd be stooping to their level. Let's let Joe win it fair and square. Remember, class and honor are what seperates us from them.[/QUOTE]

I was only joking.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=dgack;350923]Yeah but then we'd be stooping to their level. Let's let Joe win it fair and square. Remember, class and honor are what seperates us from them.[/QUOTE]

Which is why we deserve all three of thier super bowls!!!

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;350924]I was only joking.[/quote]

I know, but I couldn't resist the temptation to make a snooty, condescending comment about some johnny-come-lately "dynasties". I'm not a proud man, I'll take whatever I can get, considering the last time we had the Lombardi trophy :(

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

Casserly was on t.v. here tonight and he made two interesting points:

1. There are more shoes to drop on the Patriots because there are more teams that are going to make complaints against them. He was the one who first reported the Green Bay angle on CBS last year and he says he has a new team to talk about this Sunday.

2. Stealing defensive signals is a more or less accepted practice in the sense that scouts take notes on them for analysis to be compared to the game film etc. But, he said the rules about cameras and other gadgets exist to prevent an "arms race" that might get out of hand. ( Redskins Satellite, ready for launch) He made it seem like to his knowledge most clubs respected this line and limited their spying to what their scouts could see from the press box with their own eyes (plus binoculars maybe).

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=htownskinfan;350804]it def taints their wins,I hope they can find out how far back this goes,if they were doing it the players would have to be in on it,wouldnt they?Or at least the player on the field who calls the signals for the defense,should they be punished too?
I've been nuetral on Belichek,I've always liked Brady,till he dumped Bridget after knocking her up and having nothing to do with her during her pregnancy,meanwhile hes out with some other hottie,Ijust cant respect a man who knocks somebody up then leaves them for another woman while their pregnant[/quote]

How do you know she didn't trap him? To me it looks like they had sex and then broke up and he met someone else. Happens all the time.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;350919]And, of course, Belichick is a Parcells protege. I'll bet Parcells was filming the Redskins' offense in the Giants' 17-0 NFC Championship win back in 1987.

To make it fair, we should just give Gibbs another ring so he can go for 5 this season[/quote]

This is getting totally out of hand. The signals they would be stealing would have to be defensive since there are no signals for the offense. So the signals would have to be known, then communicated by a coach ( probably the OC Josh McDaniels) who then tells the QB the defense, then on top of that calls the play? C'mon. Defenses move around at the line anyway. I'm not saying it's right by any means, but I don't think it gives the Pats any advantage once the ball is snapped.

I think the end result is next year one defensive player is going to have a speaker in his helmet, just like the QB's. Then this will put an end to this silly ass crap.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=dgack;350900]Wait, wasn't Eric Mangini a former member of Belichick's coaching staff? So the guy who probably used to willingly participate in this kind of underhanded crap is now complaining about it because it's being used against his new team?[/quote]

We don't know if he was involved, but he had to have known, which makes it seem REALLY stupid that Belichick would try it against him.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

There are SO many examples of Belichik having no class or morals...from breaking up a marriage by being the "other" man, pushing reporters and now blatant cheating.

He's far worse for his sport than Pete Rose was for baseball. I say ban Belichick for life.

This won't happen again if the Commish takes that approach.




Oh...for old time's sake:
[yt]GwDJ_7L8zi0[/yt]

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

It's really a dumb move to cheat on that level sports anyway. I think about this, I'm sure because of this game's hype there were more than a few bets going around. What happens if the Patriots have to forfeit the game? This could be really bad and I hope if there are any other franchises out there doing a little spying the will stop. I think that Goodell should use the Patriots as an example and dock them a draft pick and make them forfeit the game because this isn't there first try at this game.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;350947]This is getting totally out of hand. The signals they would be stealing would have to be defensive since there are no signals for the offense. So the signals would have to be known, then communicated by a coach ( probably the OC Josh McDaniels) who then tells the QB the defense, then on top of that calls the play? C'mon. Defenses move around at the line anyway. I'm not saying it's right by any means, but I don't think it gives the Pats any advantage once the ball is snapped.

I think the end result is next year one defensive player is going to have a speaker in his helmet, just like the QB's. Then this will put an end to this silly ass crap.[/quote]

So if these signals are useless to the Patriots and give them no advantage, why would they go through the effort of setting up cameras, rewiring and reconfiguring radio signals and just moving the cameras when asked to leave the field (Green Bay incident)?

Don't be naive, they're not doing this because they have a bored IT staff and want to give them something to stay busy with.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=Cowell;351010]It's really a dumb move to cheat on that level sports anyway. I think about this, I'm sure because of this game's hype there were more than a few bets going around. What happens if the Patriots have to forfeit the game? This could be really bad and I hope if there are any other franchises out there doing a little spying the will stop. I think that Goodell should use the Patriots as an example and dock them a draft pick and make them forfeit the game because this isn't there first try at this game.[/quote]

I agree, but the Patriots always stockpile draft picks, so that punishment won't hurt much. Forfeit(s) and suspensions should be the minimum punishment.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=Buster;351011]So if these signals are useless to the Patriots and give them no advantage, why would they go through the effort of setting up cameras, rewiring and reconfiguring radio signals and just moving the cameras when asked to leave the field (Green Bay incident)?

Don't be naive, they're not doing this because they have a bored IT staff and want to give them something to stay busy with.[/quote]

I'm not being naive. It's just that you have to do some many things in a very short period of time to make it work. If the opposing teams are worried about it, they should have three guys standing next to the actual defensive playcaller. One guy is sending in the correct defense. The other two are sending in dummy signals.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

Sorry, I wasn't making it personal, I just meant...they HAVE to be getting an advantage from it if they've been doing it for a while or even once at all. Why would they go through all of the effort if they gained nothing?

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[quote=Buster;351030]Sorry, I wasn't making it personal, I just meant...they HAVE to be getting an advantage from it if they've been doing it for a while or even once at all. Why would they go through all of the effort if they gained nothing?[/quote]

Like I said, too much has to happen in a short period of time in order for it to really work. Let's say the Jets call a 4-3 defense with a stunt and two blitzers. The Jets coach does his signal, then someone from the Pats has to pick that signal up from acorss the sideline, then relay the defense to Josh McDaniels since he is the playcaller. Then McDaniels has to call a play and a pass protection to off set that defense. All that has to happen in 40 seconds. Can it happen? Of course it can. But it's highly unlikely that it causes the outcome of a game. Let's put it this way. If they were doing this for a few years does it mean that if they didn't do it they would not have won 3 SB's? No way.

If you are the Jets and you are playing NE, they should have two guys doing dummy signals anyway just cause Eric M. use to coach there. Common sense right?

Personally, I think Bill B. is a cheating, not personality prick. He looks like a pure 100% dickhead. But I'm not going to sit here and say just cause they try and pick signals is the reason they are good. That is ridicules.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

skinsfan, the article I read suggested they were "decoding" the audibles, not the playcalls to the line. So in theory the defense would know what the shifts and hot routes were when the Jets audibled.

That said, it would not surprise me if Belichick was trying to figure out some way to intercept incoming playcalls, because the guy just seems like such a win-at-any-cost, jagoff.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/09/12/2007-09-12_eric_mangini_exposes_bill_belichicks_spy.html]Eric Mangini exposes Bill Belichick's spy games[/url]

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

If Roger Goodell suspended a quarterbacks coach for 5 games and fined him 100 grand because he tried HGH twice to improve his quality of life because he suffered from a really bad case of diabetes, I expect to see a much tougher punishment on Belichick. The guy was caught cheating, and he's an arrogant sob who wouldn't stop even though the Commish warned him before the season started.

Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;351279][url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/09/12/2007-09-12_eric_mangini_exposes_bill_belichicks_spy.html]Eric Mangini exposes Bill Belichick's spy games[/url][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link. I've always said that Belichick is overrated and this just adds to my reasons for thinking as much.

Here's some food for thought - Belichick was just 42-58 before Brady started. That means he lost about 60% of the time. Belichick's Patriots went just 5-13 before Brady started in the early part of the 2001 season. Brady-less Belichick-coached teams have posted losing records 5 times and winning records just once. Take away Brady and judge Belichick the head coach according to his wins and losses, and he isn't even mediocre.