Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

Santana is hurt, Portis is hurt (dude can't outrun anyone). The O-Line speaks for itself. Basically everyone is hurt.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

THIS many guys should not get hurt....we have to be doing something wrong for this many grown men to get hurt every week

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;364273]I'm serious, the only way this team ever converts a third down is to be in like third and ten, and have Campbell hit Randle El or Cooley.

We can blame plenty of people. The playcalling hasn't been especially helpful. Campbell can't hit open guys. The line can't open up holes. It's bad.[/quote]

Your comments make no sense. JC had 5-6 dropped on him. He hit Moss right on the money on the deep sideline pass and Santana dropped it. JC is the least of our worries.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

Meh. He's having a bad run. He'll come out of it. They need to get him involved in some easy stuff early so his head is in the game.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;364278]3rd and short situations. Just run the ball between the tackles. OR, go playaction and try for the big play.

Don't try to throw quick outs in the rain or run tosses. Seriously, wtf?[/quote]Given the O-line injuries, I don't mind the strategy to pass on 4th and a long 1, but I do have a significant problem with Campbell's decision to throw the swing pass to a well covered receiver 2 yards short of the first down marker. That's an example where he pretty much made up his mind that he was going with the first read when an easy slant to McCardell would have netted a critical first down. Hopefully Campbell learns from that play and makes a better decision next time.

As for Moss's issues, I don't think that he has adjusted to Campbell's velocity on short throws, but that's no excuse for dropping the deep pass in the 4th quarter.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

It is not like the stats have lied to us at all. We have the most overpaid WR Corp in the NFL for what we have received in terms of production the past few years. Remember David Patten? If Moss catches that bomb from JC on the Pack 15 game over. I opt not to resign him personally and not because of todays off day for him. I rather have a taller, more physical guy like TO or Randy Moss, Stallworth, etc that an undersized speedster. Santana isn't 100 % yet in his defense, but without the speed what is the upside with an undersized guy?

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

Moss's strengths are his hands and his speed. The injury can account for the speed (though he seems pretty fast getting behind folks), but the hands is something mental. Hope he works it out, because we need him.

To be fair, JC missed at least two crucial passes today--one the overthrow to Lloyd, the other a missed read throwing to Sellers instead of MacCardell on the short slant. But that's going to happen with a young QB. The vet WRs out there need to help him out until he fully gets the timing and touch of a seasoned NFL QB.

Oh, and that "interception"--Moss bounces it up in the air, and then both the defender and ARE come down with it. What a weak call that it was an INT. And so not JC's fault.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=JWsleep;364358]Moss's strengths are his hands and his speed. The injury can account for the speed (though he seems pretty fast getting behind folks), but the hands is something mental. Hope he works it out, because we need him.

To be fair, JC missed at least two crucial passes today--one the overthrow to Lloyd, the other a missed read throwing to Sellers instead of MacCardell on the short slant. But that's going to happen with a young QB. The vet WRs out there need to help him out until he fully gets the timing and touch of a seasoned NFL QB.

Oh, and that "interception"--Moss bounces it up in the air, and then both the defender and ARE come down with it. What a weak call that it was an INT. And so not JC's fault.[/quote]Agreed that the INT should've been ruled a completion to ARE for simultaneous posession with the defender.

I'm a little concerned that unless Campbell learns to put more touch on deep balls, he will continue to miss wide open opportunities. Elite QBs do not miss the throw that Lloyd couldn't quite pull in. Campbell also missed Cooley on a fairly deep throw in the first half. Until he starts making those type of plays with more consistency, I don't believe you can characterize Campbell as a great deep passer. Hopefully the coaches are addressing his touch on deeper throws in practice. Of course the deep throw to Moss was pretty damn solid, and that could have turned the game in the Skins favor.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;364196]This is what I find slightly irritating:

Person A: "Man, Player X really had a bad game today. I wonder what his problem is?"

Person B: "Hey, let's not cut the guy just because he had a bad game."

To criticize a player for a bad game does not automatically mean that person thinks he should cut.[/QUOTE]

This is what I find irritating:

Poster A: "Man, I want to keep whining about how our team losing games they should've won. The sky is falling and blah blah blah.

Poster B: "Man, I know we lost today, but there is still much of the season left to play so stop focusing on the whining and start thinking about next week against the Cards.

And really, if you had paid attention, you'd realize I actually said (although maybe in another thread) "what was wrong with Moss today?"

But anyways, my thought on Moss being cut was tongue in cheek, but you continued to pick it part like boogers from your nose. And it really was just an expression. My biggest point was Moss played like crap today, but ya know, there is still 11 games left in the season for us. So, stop whining and focus on what is next for us.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;364354]I opt not to resign him personally and not because of todays off day for him. I rather have a taller, more physical guy like TO or Randy Moss, Stallworth, etc that an undersized speedster. Santana isn't 100 % yet in his defense, but without the speed what is the upside with an undersized guy?[/quote]

I believe the guy you are speaking of is Brandon Lloyd, to a certain degree. Unfortunately he obviously hasn't played anywhere near those expectations.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[QUOTE=RJ2kWJ;364243]Oh he definitely isn't getting cut... But he definitely cost us this game. BIG TIME. He didn't seem like he even gave a crap about it either.[/QUOTE]


Moss was on post game (Comcast) with B. Mitch and Ray Brown- seemed genuinely contrite about the game he had today. I was actually suprised that he even played today because of that groin injury that's been troubling him the last few weeks. It may have been better had he not played at all. His injury problems started back in the spring during OTA's (no contact) and I mentioned then that I was concerned about his seemingly history of injury problems. Groin injuries can be lasting if you're not careful, I just don't think he's completely healthy, and his play today was indicative of that fact.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=Gmanc711;364291]Man I really really really want to give Santana the benifit of the doubt...but the guy hasent played well all season. He has made a couple of nice catches but overall, he just isnt the player he has been the past couple years up to this point.

I mean Moss is one of my favorite players, hell his was the jersey I choose to wear for the game today....but man I've never seen one single player cost us a game the way he did today. Two plays just stick out to me, the fumble (obviously)...and when he had the chance to turn things around and make a big play with that catch, he drops it. That is a minimum of 3 points for us and ties us at 17......I really hope he has a good game next week because he's a guy I really like cheering for, but damn he needs to pick it up[/quote]Moss will bounce back. He was a stand-up guy during postgame interviews. I believe that his performance today will be motivation to make plays for his teammates going forward. I still say that the reverse was a LOUSY call on a wet field.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

I think Moss and Rogers secretly switched jerseys during the bye week.

Jokes over, switch back please!

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

Moss will be fine. He need to heal, and his hands will be back.


I'm concerned about 1/1000th as much about Moss than I am about our o-line.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;364367]Agreed that the INT should've been ruled a completion to ARE for simultaneous posession with the defender.

I'm a little concerned that unless Campbell learns to put more touch on deep balls, he will continue to miss wide open opportunities. Elite QBs do not miss the throw that Lloyd couldn't quite pull in. Campbell also missed Cooley on a fairly deep throw in the first half. Until he starts making those type of plays with more consistency, I don't believe you can characterize Campbell as a great deep passer. Hopefully the coaches are addressing his touch on deeper throws in practice. Of course the deep throw to Moss was pretty damn solid, and that could have turned the game in the Skins favor.[/quote]

Yeah JC misses some but he also puts some right on the money that guys are dropping. I would say JC played well enough for us to easily win this game. Problem is when we loose everyone tends to nit pick.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=RobH4413;364402]Moss will be fine. He need to heal, and his hands will be back.


I'm concerned about 1/1000th as much about Moss than I am about our o-line.[/quote]Totally agree on the O-line. Gibbs may have to move away from his total commitment to establish the run when the O-line is in shambles. As for the passing attack, the fact that Cooley was fully utilized underneath should only open up more plays downfield. Frankly, with the nice route that Lloyd ran on that deep ball, I hope he gets some chances moving forward. Working him back into the rotation will help keep ARE and Moss fresh, and perhaps help all of them to perform that much better as a unit.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

Count me in the "doubting Santana" category, but I'd love to eat those words. He hasn't looked like the same guy since he hurt himself last year.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

Moss will be fine. I agree with some of the others that the rain cause a huge problem for Moss. Everytime I see it raining I just know we are screwed. In the past, the Skins have been horrible on the rainy games that I can remember while Gibbs has been coach. The denver game in 2005 and I believe the playoff game against Seattle. Just like today, they dominated in each of the games but just cant seem to completely adjust to the hostile terrain and lose in the end.

My question is what the team did to adjust to the slippery ball and field. The packers showed that it effected their team, but were able to adjust to the conditions. What the hell did we do? From the looks nothing. We were slipping all over the field till the last snap of the game. We need this win damn it! :madani:

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

I think the field condition got into Moss' head. If you are coming back from a groin/hamstring injury, the last thing you want to do is play on a sloppy field. You saw Heyer slip and do the splits causing a serious injury. Randle El had a drop or two. I think Moss was thinking about his next cut before he caught the ball. Unfortunate but anyone who's had an injury to his legs knows that the next time you go out and try to play ball, it's in your head. hopefully with a full week of practice he will build confidence in himself.


My one problem with moss today, He was quoted as saying he took himself out of the game because he didn't want to continue to hurt the team. He need to fight through his problems. Even as a decoy, he has value to the offense. He gave up...

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=jamf;364429]He was quoted as saying he took himself out of the game because he didn't want to continue to hurt the team. He need to fight through his problems. Even as a decoy, he has value to the offense. He gave up...[/quote]

If he said that, that's total BS. What kind of a message does that send to the rest of the team? That you aren't willing to go to battle with them because your pu$$y hurts? BS.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;364033]I guess the same can be said about Portis.[/quote]

Portis' problem is he doesn't tuck the ball, he like dances with it.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=atomicnixon;364439]Portis' problem is he doesn't tuck the ball, he like dances with it.[/quote]

Portis isn't a trucking back, the dude's like 5'9, 210, who's he really gonna run over? He is known as a speedy elusive guy. If the guy's gotta do the Macarena to make it into the endzone then damnit, let him do it.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=mooby;364231]We're not gonna cut him, we'd at least trade him and get something for him lol. Either way that's not happening so w/e.

The fact of the matter is something is wrong with him. The drops are a mental aspect of the game, which suggests that he's not "on" mentally as far as I'm concerned. He's not playing like old, and that means that the injuries are probably still lingering. What I would do is just let him sit next week, let him get back into the right frame of mind, and when he thinks he can contribute and stop making negative plays it will be time to let him back on the field. If he continues playing like this he's only gonna hurt us some more, and we can't have that.[/quote]

Brain damage, nerve damage, the yips? Seems to me something is wrong with him, and I'm not saying this to be critical. I think he needs a full physical (including neural) check up. He's not the same guy. There are many reasons his hands may be slow to react-- many are serious.
I hope I'm totally off the wall and wrong but I think this has been coming on for a while.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

we need a big time play receiver, im telling you we need a player like, Braylon, or Roy Williams, Randy Moss type, we should consider getting that kid from the Bengals, who's coming back from supension, it be worth taking (chris Henry) if we can get him for a 5th or 6th rounder.....but in this league today, this is not the smurf's, we need a big target, Jason is 6-4 and his biggest weapon is Cooley is the reason why he connects so much with him.....

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

Atleast we fought our guts out though gotta give em that

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[QUOTE=DEVIL'S OWN;364459]we need a big time play receiver, im telling you we need a player like, Braylon, or Roy Williams, Randy Moss type, we should consider getting that kid from the Bengals, who's coming back from supension, it be worth taking (chris Henry) if we can get him for a 5th or 6th rounder.....but in this league today, this is not the smurf's, we need a big target, Jason is 6-4 and his biggest weapon is Cooley is the reason why he connects so much with him.....[/QUOTE]

Well, I do agree with you about needing a big reliable WR. Chris Henry is not the answer though, he's a cancer.
We are stuck with what we have right now, and nothing is really going to change that.
We need to reevaluate our wr's come the end of the season...that's for sure.
SS reported that Fitzgerald wants out of Arizona, we could make a nice offer and he'd look great in a Skins uni.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

a little overrated is all...

i seriously believe that moss is overrated. an im not just sayin this cause we lost, i have honestly think that.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

this is probably in another thread somewhere but anyhow, i watched the interview with portis today and his comment(although kinda funny at the time) about how jason was at redskin park for 18 of 24 hrs a day, then when asked about his work schedule portis replied "anything over 9 hrs is a breach of my contract, hahaha". but behind every joke is a little bit of truth. every time i read the skins news, same old thing. "campbell stayed after practice working with several different receivers today, among them were thrash,randle el, Mcardell" blablabla....point is i never here anything about moss or lloyd out there putting in extra time to help a young qb out. coincidence these are the same jackasses dropping and fumbling? (im sorry, but if you get paid millions to catch a piece of pigskin and the ball touches your hands, a constant drop is inexcusable). we shot ourselves in the ass today and as coach gibbs would say, "we all need to take a good look at ourselves in the mirror"

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

Just got home and watched the game on tevo...Wish I hadn't now. As for Moss what is wrong? Well another player that has one good year and is now nothing. A has been that NEVER was!!!! It's hard to be a Redskin Fan these days. I feel for Gibbs.....never should have come back to this bad a team!

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[QUOTE=Ijaeger;364486]this is probably in another thread somewhere but anyhow, i watched the interview with portis today and his comment(although kinda funny at the time) about how jason was at redskin park for 18 of 24 hrs a day, then when asked about his work schedule portis replied "anything over 9 hrs is a breach of my contract, hahaha". but behind every joke is a little bit of truth. every time i read the skins news, same old thing. "campbell stayed after practice working with several different receivers today, among them were thrash,randle el, Mcardell" blablabla....point is i never here anything about moss or lloyd out there putting in extra time to help a young qb out. coincidence these are the same jackasses dropping and fumbling? (im sorry, but if you get paid millions to catch a piece of pigskin and the ball touches your hands, a constant drop is inexcusable). we shot ourselves in the ass today and as coach gibbs would say, "we all need to take a good look at ourselves in the mirror"[/QUOTE]

One thing you said is so right there is a lot of players not putting in thier time to win a Championship. The money the Redskins pay Portis he should be giving much more then this team is getting!!!! I wish he was back in Denver for a first round draft pick in next years draft!!!! I hope you read this to #26!!!

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;364475]Well, I do agree with you about needing a big reliable WR. Chris Henry is not the answer though, he's a cancer.
We are stuck with what we have right now, and nothing is really going to change that.
We need to reevaluate our wr's come the end of the season...that's for sure.
SS reported that Fitzgerald wants out of Arizona, we could make a nice offer and he'd look great in a Skins uni.[/QUOTE]

a play for larry Fitzgerald would be great, we could trade moss, llyod and ARE, and start fresh there a vet like L.Fitzgearld and get some rookies in the draft, keep thrash and another vet, trade portis and C. Rogers bring in a DE like J. Peppers, thats not a bad deal for us, cause believe it or not, were a talented WR away from being an elite club, I know alot of you guys think attitude is key, but Randy Moss, C. Dillion and others worked out fine with good orginzations and we have that here...we can ride or die with betts...

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

ITS LIKE portis and moss or pissed at the organizations now......and they seem not to put in that extra needed to make us elite I mean, these are Miami guys, Sean Taylor put in the time to lose 15 pounds in the off Season to roam the field better and thats paying off on D, its time to pay him or were fucked with out him on D

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

Santana Moss is an incredible player and a huge part of our offense. He had a bad game. He's probably still hurting a bit. Let's give him a break this week and watch him bounce back against the Cardinals. Expect Moss to bounce back immediately.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=Luxorreb;364498]Santana Moss is an incredible player and a huge part of our offense. He had a bad game. He's probably still hurting a bit. Let's give him a break this week and watch him bounce back against the Cardinals. Expect Moss to bounce back immediately.[/quote]Something tells me SM won't play in this game. I heard he hurt his hammy. He seems to miss alot of games. He had that problem in NY, thats why they dumped him. If he does play, He needs to have a chance early in the game to redeem himself. He is a bigtime playmaker and need to get the ball early and often. Skins 32- Cardinals-0. Thats right, a shutout!!!

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

What about the multi dimensional Tim Rattay!? I mean his first consecutive start this season. And been on the team since last Monday...

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[QUOTE=DEVIL'S OWN;364496]a play for larry Fitzgerald would be great, we could trade moss, llyod and ARE, and start fresh there a vet like L.Fitzgearld and get some rookies in the draft, keep thrash and another vet, trade portis and C. Rogers bring in a DE like J. Peppers, thats not a bad deal for us, cause believe it or not, were a talented WR away from being an elite club, I know alot of you guys think attitude is key, but Randy Moss, C. Dillion and others worked out fine with good orginzations and we have that here...we can ride or die with betts...[/QUOTE]

This is sarcastic right?

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

It goes without saying that Moss was extremely disappointing yesterday. He really needs to step it up and get back on track ASAP.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[QUOTE=Ijaeger;364486]this is probably in another thread somewhere but anyhow, i watched the interview with portis today and his comment(although kinda funny at the time) about how jason was at redskin park for 18 of 24 hrs a day, then when asked about his work schedule portis replied "anything over 9 hrs is a breach of my contract, hahaha". but behind every joke is a little bit of truth. every time i read the skins news, same old thing. "campbell stayed after practice working with several different receivers today, among them were thrash,randle el, Mcardell" blablabla....point is i never here anything about moss or lloyd out there putting in extra time to help a young qb out. coincidence these are the same jackasses dropping and fumbling? (im sorry, but if you get paid millions to catch a piece of pigskin and the ball touches your hands, a constant drop is inexcusable). we shot ourselves in the ass today and as coach gibbs would say, "we all need to take a good look at ourselves in the mirror"[/QUOTE]

I'm sure Moss and Campbell have worked after hours together. I know they worked overtime in the off-season together

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[quote=jsarno;364475]SS reported that Fitzgerald wants out of Arizona, we could make a nice offer and he'd look great in a Skins uni.[/quote]

Bryant Johnson is an UFA next season if I'm not mistaken, and that guy is a star in waiting. Playing behing Fitz and Boldin and he's always stepped up whenever one of them went down, but has been quietly biding his time for a few years now. THAT's the guy I'd go after.

Re: What is wrong with Santana Moss?
 

[QUOTE=dgack;364539]Bryant Johnson is an UFA next season if I'm not mistaken, and that guy is a star in waiting. Playing behing Fitz and Boldin and he's always stepped up whenever one of them went down, but has been quietly biding his time for a few years now. THAT's the guy I'd go after.[/QUOTE]

He's a local guy too I think