Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[quote=jsarno;371155]He was really coming into his own too...this is quite a shame.

I saw where it said he tore his ACL and MCL...how will he make it back by training camp if that is true? Anyone have better info?[/quote]

I am not trying to be grim, but I tore my MCL 4 years ago, and I have not been the same since. The injury has technically healed, but my leg feels like a streched rubberband and my knee doesn't hold in place properly. Every once in a while my knee gives out and I nearly fall on my face. I cannot run long distance like I used to and planting on it while sprinting is slightly painfull. I am not nearly as fast as I was.

I do not see how professional athletes come back from injuries like these honestly. In my experience, you are never 100% again.

Good luck Carlos, I hope you can make it back.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[quote=angryssg;371205]I am not trying to be grim, but I tore my MCL 4 years ago, and I have not been the same since. The injury has technically healed, but my leg feels like a streched rubberband and my knee doesn't hold in place properly. Every once in a while my knee gives out and I nearly fall on my face. I cannot run long distance like I used to and planting on it while sprinting is slightly painfull. I am not nearly as fast as I was.

I do not see how professional athletes come back from injuries like these honestly. In my experience, you are never 100% again.

Good luck Carlos, I hope you can make it back.[/quote]


They have access to the best surgeons (Dr. Andrews), rehabilitation, physical therapists, and trainers money can buy. Plus a guy as athletic as Carlos Rogers, a top 10 draft pick, is already blessed with the best physical attributes out there. Guys come back from this stuff all the time. That said, I'm sure we'll continue to try and bolster the CB position moving forward...

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

I wish Carlos Rogers a fast and speedy recovery.
Injury looked very painful.
I wish him the best.

Unlike a few others I think his absence won't be felt as much as others might think. Rogers couldn't catch a cold. Balls consistantly bounce off of his hands. He also gets burned on the reg. I say call up Jimoh or Garnell Wilds or Darrell Green. Rogers needs to be alot better to live up to the rest of his #1 pick comrads.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=BleedinBurgNGold;371092]I am begining to wonder whether or not some of you are watching the same Carlos Rogers I am on the Field. He is a terrible Deep Cover Corner and an Average at Best Nickle corner. Opposing teams have targeted him since we drafted him. Must we forget the attempted shoulder tackle on a TE that was flying down the Middle of the Field against Green Bay? Or the NUmerous misreads and flatout burns this season? (Philly, Arizona, Giants). I have lost patience with Carlos. I look at this Injury in the same light as if we traded him for an untested Rookie. carlos has had his day and the sun many a game and has dried up like a raisin.[B] Its time for Lee Torrence to show us what he can do.[/B][/QUOTE]

Okay, I can stomach people saying they'd like to see Betts start, but you are not actually anxious to see Leigh Torrence start? I realize the grass is always greener, especially with impatient Redskins fans, but come on.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

It will hurt us in a number of ways. One is that we'll have to shift help to wherever the replacement is--that takes away some of Taylor's freedom. Two, our D has been taking away the long ball by relying on CBs to tackle the short stuff. Carlos missed some plays, to be sure, but he made some as well, and he is more physical than these other guys. It will affect the overall, D I'm afraid, which is a real bummer.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=SuperFan99;371199]I feel bad for Carlos Rogers. But every time I saw him screw up a play, I'd think . . . dang, we could have had Merriman![/QUOTE]

If only Gibbs would spend time on the warpath and start reading my threads Merriman would be a Skin. Unfortunately it looks like Rogers is going to go down as a top 10 bust at this point, he wasnt that good up until now I doubt he will be much once he gets done with what sounds like a very ugly knee surgery.

[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/4446-shawne-merriman.html[/url]

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=offiss;371233]Unfortunately it looks like Rogers is going to go down as a top 10 bust at this point, he wasnt that good up until now I doubt he will be much once he gets done with what sounds like a very ugly knee surgery.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Well said offiss. Unfortunate, but true.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[quote=Beemnseven;371152]Almost nobody spells "ridiculous" correctly. It's one of The Warpath's greatest mysteries -- second only to Question 3.[/quote]

Well alot of people do not use the words then and than correctly.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

Yeah he is some shit and dont forget Laron landry can play corner.Carlos Rogers sucked anyway another Leon Hall with the Bengals high drafted and cant cover a damn turd.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

this is really bad

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;371221]Okay, I can stomach people saying they'd like to see Betts start, but you are not actually anxious to see Leigh Torrence start? I realize the grass is always greener, especially with impatient Redskins fans, but come on.[/quote]

I don't think that's how that was intended to come across. I read it as, "well, we better hope Torrance can play"

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

I really don't see Rodgers as a bust. He's hurt but he has been playing very well. He'll be back next year mid way and we will need him.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

were still fine at CB position, now find some quality OL for his roster spot

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

I guess we have to define 'bust' in order to properly label Rogers. To me a bust is a guy that can't play in this league at all.

Rogers is not in that category. The guy can play.

Has he lived up to the expectations of a #9 overall selection?

No.

But he does have talent and he is still improving, maybe not as quickly as we'd like to see but he was quietly having a good year.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;371338]I guess we have to define 'bust' in order to properly label Rogers. To me a bust is a guy that can't play in this league at all.

Rogers is not in that category. The guy can play.

Has he lived up to the expectations of a #9 overall selection?

No.

But he does have talent and he is still improving, maybe not as quickly as we'd like to see but he was quietly having a good year.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I was a Rogers-hater until this year. It's a shame.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=offiss;371233]If only Gibbs would spend time on the warpath and start reading my threads Merriman would be a Skin. Unfortunately it looks like Rogers is going to go down as a top 10 bust at this point, he wasnt that good up until now I doubt he will be much once he gets done with what sounds like a very ugly knee surgery.

[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/4446-shawne-merriman.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Didn't you also say that Campbell was going to be worse than Aaron Brooks and would be traded by 2008 for a conditional 7th rounder? Sorry, but your post made me go and bust balls.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

yeah, rogers was having his best year in my opinion, his coveage skills have vastly improved from years past and he has always been a decent to good tackler . . . hope you have a healthy recovery 'los!

isnt next year rogers' contract year . . . go skins!

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

MCL and ACL? That knee will never be the same. Hopefully he recovers 100% and is able to have a serviceable career.

We could call up Eubanks or Westbrook, but is there anyone out on the waiver wire?

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

Bubba Tyer seems to think Rogers will be "ready to go" next year.

The severity of the damage will determine his recovery. If the ligaments were completely torn, he would be in trouble. Sounds like that's not the case though.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

Bad news. Good luck to Carlos.

One more thing:
People, just stop with all the fucking Merriman talk. It gets old. How many times can you say, "I told you so." Does it really make you feel that much better?

So what? You might have made one good prediction. Whoopie! Get over yourselves already.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

does this mean Rodgers will have to be shifted to nickel permanantly?
From what you guys are saying...odds are he'll never be the same.

I predicted 7-9 and I'm stickin to it.
Thats right....just 3 more wins in the next 9 games.
The funny part is...thats a big improvement from last year and quite an achievement on a team decimated with injuries...springs, washington, smoot, rogers (major), jansen, thomas (major), kendell, portis, rabach, cartwright, moss, wade, heyer.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

After such a devastating injury, if Rogers loses a step, he may never be more than a nickel. Philly had a great young CB in the early 90's name Ben Smith - after he blew out his knee, he was never the same player. Here's hoping that he makes a complete recovery - for all Rogers bashers out there, let's see how good our pass D is without him now.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie;371355]MCL and ACL? That knee will never be the same. Hopefully he recovers 100% and is able to have a serviceable career.

We could call up Eubanks or Westbrook, but is there anyone out on the waiver wire?[/QUOTE]

Well they've called up Eubanks. The link I believe is probably on washingtonpost.com but I can't seem to access the site at the moment

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;371343]Didn't you also say that Campbell was going to be worse than Aaron Brooks and would be traded by 2008 for a conditional 7th rounder? Sorry, but your post made me go and bust balls.[/QUOTE]

I do believe I said something of the sort, more so I said he would probably, or could be worse than Brooks, but I have always thought Brooks was horrible I was a little peeved that we were even thinking of giving away draft picks to get Campbell at the time I said it, it's awfully tough to be worse than Brooks. The trade scenario was me basically venting on how stupid Gibbs had been with draft up until then.

Campbell has a long way to go to prove that statement wrong, although I really like the kid as a person he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and seems very humble, he still needs to step up and take control of this team, and the way Gibbs approaches things that is a long ways off, I am rooting for him but I think it's 60/40 that he doesn't become a bonified, can win a super bowl, franchise QB, we will see, I hope I am wrong!

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[quote=offiss;371536]I do believe I said something of the sort, more so I said he would probably, or could be worse than Brooks, but I have always thought Brooks was horrible I was a little peeved that we were even thinking of giving away draft picks to get Campbell at the time I said it, it's awfully tough to be worse than Brooks. The trade scenario was me basically venting on how stupid Gibbs had been with draft up until then.

Campbell has a long way to go to prove that statement wrong, although I really like the kid as a person he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and seems very humble, he still needs to step up and take control of this team, and the way Gibbs approaches things that is a long ways off, I am rooting for him but I think it's 60/40 that he doesn't become a bonified, can win a super bowl, franchise QB, we will see, I hope I am wrong![/quote]

Here is what you said:

[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-draft-central/5983-merged-jason-campbell-2.html#post79412[/URL]

And:
[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-draft-central/5983-merged-jason-campbell-5.html#post79718[/URL]

[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-draft-central/5983-merged-jason-campbell-6.html#post79746[/URL]

[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-draft-central/5983-merged-jason-campbell-7.html#post79872[/URL]

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;371394]After such a devastating injury, if Rogers loses a step, he may never be more than a nickel. Philly had a great young CB in the early 90's name Ben Smith - after he blew out his knee, he was never the same player. Here's hoping that he makes a complete recovery - for all Rogers bashers out there, let's see how good our pass D is without him now.[/QUOTE]

Knee surgery has come a long way since the early 90's. It used to be an ACL was a career death sentence. Nowadays it is almost always recoverable.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;371555]Here is what you said:

[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-draft-central/5983-merged-jason-campbell-2.html#post79412[/URL]

And:
[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-draft-central/5983-merged-jason-campbell-5.html#post79718[/URL]

[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-draft-central/5983-merged-jason-campbell-6.html#post79746[/URL]

[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-draft-central/5983-merged-jason-campbell-7.html#post79872[/URL][/QUOTE]

I sure wish I was wrong about those statements, hopefully I will be down the road, but I doubt it.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[quote=offiss;371585]I sure wish I was wrong about those statements, hopefully I will be down the road, but I doubt it.[/quote]After reading your old posts, you couldn't be more wrong about Campbell IMO. Ramsey better than Campbell? Ramsey was a loser at every level (HS/College/Pro). Campbell won championships in HS and College, and shows excellent poise for a guy only 16 starts into his career. Campbell put us in position to win the Giants game late, he would have won the Green Bay game if his WRs could catch a pass, and Gibbs game plan was ridiculously conservative against Arizona. I don't think you can bash Campbell for his performance last week against perhaps the greatest team we've seen in years. I'm very optimistic that Campbell has both the talent and demeanor to become a franchise QB, especially after Gibbs fixes issues on the OL after the season.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=offiss;371536]I do believe I said something of the sort, more so I said he would probably, or could be worse than Brooks, but I have always thought Brooks was horrible I was a little peeved that we were even thinking of giving away draft picks to get Campbell at the time I said it, it's awfully tough to be worse than Brooks. The trade scenario was me basically venting on how stupid Gibbs had been with draft up until then.

Campbell has a long way to go to prove that statement wrong, although I really like the kid as a person he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and seems very humble, he still needs to step up and take control of this team, and the way Gibbs approaches things that is a long ways off, I am rooting for him but I think it's 60/40 that he doesn't become a bonified, can win a super bowl, franchise QB, we will see, I hope I am wrong![/QUOTE]

Fair enough.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;371597]After reading your old posts, you couldn't be more wrong about Campbell IMO. Ramsey better than Campbell? Ramsey was a loser at every level (HS/College/Pro). Campbell won championships in HS and College, and shows excellent poise for a guy only 16 starts into his career. Campbell put us in position to win the Giants game late, he would have won the Green Bay game if his WRs could catch a pass, and Gibbs game plan was ridiculously conservative against Arizona. I don't think you can bash Campbell for his performance last week against perhaps the greatest team we've seen in years. I'm very optimistic that Campbell has both the talent and demeanor to become a franchise QB, especially after Gibbs fixes issues on the OL after the season.[/QUOTE]

I agree about your point with Gibbs that is why I said it will be a long time before we really know, and yes he's had bad luck with his WR dropping passes no doubt, but can we say the teams we have played other than NE are any good, the league is very mediocre we should be top 4 and we can't say that. HS, college, etc I don't put a lot of stock in great QB's have been losers in college and great college Qb couldn't get themselves drafted, he needs to perform on this level that's what counts, NE is great offensively and very good defensively, Campbell into his 3rd season has to show more than he did on Sunday against anyone inc. NE. Funny I don't remember Ramsey having that bad of a day ever, not that we need to rehash the Ramsey debate anymore.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;371394]After such a devastating injury, if Rogers loses a step, he may never be more than a nickel. Philly had a great young CB in the early 90's name Ben Smith - after he blew out his knee, he was never the same player. Here's hoping that he makes a complete recovery - for all Rogers bashers out there, let's see how good our pass D is without him now.[/QUOTE]

Great post...absolutely agree.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

I agree that Carlos may never be as fast, but honestly with modern medicine he won't be that bad off given adequate time to rest that leg.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[quote=offiss;371585]I sure wish I was wrong about those statements, hopefully I will be down the road, but I doubt it.[/quote]

So you still think JC is no better than Aaron Brooks?

You could at least admit you were wrong on Ramsey.

Hell, I can. I once thought he was going to be the future, now he's just another backup.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;371626]So you still think JC is no better than Aaron Brooks?

You could at least admit you were wrong on Ramsey.

Hell, I can. I once thought he was going to be the future, now he's just another backup.[/QUOTE]

I already answered that question but I will again, Brooks IMO opinion was as bad as it gets, no starting QB's could be worse.

As far as Ramsey goes no need to apologize because Ramsey is better and was better for us than Brunell ever was, the fact that Gibbs and his senile approach to football couldn't see that only reinforces why he would stay with a QB in Brunell for 3 years who was as bad as it gets, funny 1/2 of Gibbs personnel moves have or are on there way to blowing up in his face and yet he was some how dead on about Ramsey, and even if Ramsey never starts again he was still better than anything we had at the time which was nothing in Brunell. Further more what has Campbell done [other than being anointed by Gibbs] to prove a thing? I know you have him crowned the next great QB, but I would rather wait until he actually does something, I am not saying he wont, I am saying he has to prove himself before I hang my hat on him unlike yourself. He faced a good defense against the Pats, GOOD, they are not the 85' Bears, and he was awful, I would say he has a way's to go. Now if you want to blame a lot of his performance on Gibbs and his inability to game plan? Fine I would go along with you on that one, barring that I saw a QB out there without a clue where to go with the football.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[quote=offiss;371764]I already answered that question but I will again, Brooks IMO opinion was as bad as it gets, no starting QB's could be worse.

As far as Ramsey goes no need to apologize because Ramsey is better and was better for us than Brunell ever was, the fact that Gibbs and his senile approach to football couldn't see that only reinforces why he would stay with a QB in Brunell for 3 years who was as bad as it gets, funny 1/2 of Gibbs personnel moves have or are on there way to blowing up in his face and yet he was some how dead on about Ramsey, and even if Ramsey never starts again he was still better than anything we had at the time which was nothing in Brunell. Further more what has Campbell done [other than being anointed by Gibbs] to prove a thing? I know you have him crowned the next great QB, but I would rather wait until he actually does something, I am not saying he wont, I am saying he has to prove himself before I hang my hat on him unlike yourself. He faced a good defense against the Pats, GOOD, they are not the 85' Bears, and he was awful, I would say he has a way's to go. Now if you want to blame a lot of his performance on Gibbs and his inability to game plan? Fine I would go along with you on that one, barring that I saw a QB out there without a clue where to go with the football.[/quote]

C'mon dude you said the pick was "utter incompetence" and that JC was "mediocre", "not 1st round material", and "This kid isn't McNabb, McNair, Culpepper, Leftwich, and here's the scary part I don't believe he's even Aaron Brooks" and last not not least "i will be right about this kid as his future unfolds, but don't worry we will trade him for a conditional 6th or 7th rd. pick in 3 year's".

Pretty strong statements there. Nice way of backing off your stance now.

So I guess Mangini was wrong on Ramsey too since he didn't think he was any better than Pennington or Clemens?

As far as Gibbs' hits vs. misses, if we laid them all out I'd be willing to bet that the number of good moves would easily outnumber the bad ones. There's no way it would be 50/50. The only glaring misses that come to mind are Lloyd, Arch, Patten, and Barrow. And with Patten and Barrow injuries came into play so an argument could be made that if they stayed healthy they were moves that could have worked out. If you can name more I'd love to hear them.

I haven't "crowned" JC anything yet, not sure where you are getting that. I think he's a promising young QB and I like the move a lot more today vs. when he was drafted. As far as what happened this past Sunday I wouldn't put too much stock in it. That was his 14th career start and Belichick's defense over the years has made many, many QB's with far more experience look bad. Hell, his 'D' has made Manning look bad at times so I'm not going to get too worked up over Campbell's struggles especially considering the whole team struggled.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;371777]C'mon dude you said the pick was "utter incompetence" and that JC was "mediocre", "not 1st round material", and "This kid isn't McNabb, McNair, Culpepper, Leftwich, and here's the scary part I don't believe he's even Aaron Brooks" and last not not least "i will be right about this kid as his future unfolds, but don't worry we will trade him for a conditional 6th or 7th rd. pick in 3 year's".

Pretty strong statements there. Nice way of backing off your stance now.

So I guess Mangini was wrong on Ramsey too since he didn't think he was any better than Pennington or Clemens?

As far as Gibbs' hits vs. misses, if we laid them all out I'd be willing to bet that the number of good moves would easily outnumber the bad ones. There's no way it would be 50/50. The only glaring misses that come to mind are Lloyd, Arch, Patten, and Barrow. And with Patten and Barrow injuries came into play so an argument could be made that if they stayed healthy they were moves that could have worked out. If you can name more I'd love to hear them.

I haven't "crowned" JC anything yet, not sure where you are getting that. I think he's a promising young QB and I like the move a lot more today vs. when he was drafted. As far as what happened this past Sunday I wouldn't put too much stock in it. That was his 14th career start and Belichick's defense over the years has made many, many QB's with far more experience look bad. Hell, his 'D' has made Manning look bad at times so I'm not going to get too worked up over Campbell's struggles especially considering the whole team struggled.[/QUOTE]

True about there defense and making QB's look bad, but 52 nothing bad late in the game, there are different levels of bad, and Campbell pegged the needle. Further more I wouldn't base a judgement on one game that wouldn't be fair, but he really hasen't done a whole lot to show me he's the goods so far, but I will say I hope he gets a fair shot unlike Ramsey.


No need to back off at this point, the fact is I don't ever see this kid becoming a bonafide SB type QB, EVER! But if I start saying it now I would never here the end of it, personally I was just passing time until it's official you know just like Portis, Brunell, Arrington, etc. and so on. Sorry but if you want it straight there it is, lets face it we have a 3rd year QB who is still learning how to find an open WR, he will be ready for retirement by the time he consistently is able to find one. I do like him seems like a class act, and I will root for him to prove me 1000% wrong, but I don't think so we are stuck with a run of the mill average QB. That wouldn't be so bad if we picked him in the 2nd or 3rd rd where he belonged instead of trading away a lot of picks to get him as if we were drafting Elway or some other franchise type QB, this kid is not a franchise QB, although Gibbs didn't need franchise QB's in the past, but he sure needs one now.

I don't know about Mangini, do you think he has been right about Pennington? Something tells me the benching this week kind of says no.

Further more I would like to think Shanahan knows a little about QB's, and to bring Ramsey in behind a 2nd year starter when it is very conceivable that he might need to give Cutler a breather now and then as he learns, should tell you the guy sees something in him to give him a 2 year contract.


Funny you use 14 starts as an excuse for this kid yet Ramsey probably didn't have that with us, and Ramsey hadn't performed any worse than Campbell, but you know it's the teams fault and not Campbells inability to convert 3rd downs? The bottom line here is whether or not Ramsey will ever pan out remains to seen, but lets face it if Gibbs sang his praises instead of the teachers pet in Brunell you would still be slobbering all over him, it comes down to what gibbs tells you to think, unfortunately you still think your listening to a 3 time SB winner and that coach has long left the building, we have a coach now living off that rep while he continues to make us look like the laughing stock of the league, because that is what we are at this point lets not sugar coat it!

Do you really want to know how to make this kid pan out? I will tell you, we need to build a monster O-line to limit what Campbell has to do, so that the burden of winning is not square on his shoulders, sounds a lot like Gibbs first go round doesn't it, the fact is regardless of what notoriety our current line has [when healthy] they do not push players off the LOS, that's what we had in the 80's, and that's what we don't have now, Gibbs needs to recognize this and bring that type of O-lineman in, unfortunately he hasn't yet and I doubt he will devote the efforts necessary to make that happen.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[quote=offiss;372064]True about there defense and making QB's look bad, but 52 nothing bad late in the game, there are different levels of bad, and Campbell pegged the needle. Further more I wouldn't base a judgement on one game that wouldn't be fair, but he really hasen't done a whole lot to show me he's the goods so far, but I will say I hope he gets a fair shot unlike Ramsey.


No need to back off at this point, the fact is I don't ever see this kid becoming a bonafide SB type QB, EVER! [B]But if I start saying it now I would never here the end of it[/B], personally I was just passing time until it's official you know just like Portis, Brunell, Arrington, etc. and so on. Sorry but if you want it straight there it is, lets face it we have a 3rd year QB who is still learning how to find an open WR, he will be ready for retirement by the time he consistently is able to find one. I do like him seems like a class act, and I will root for him to prove me 1000% wrong, but I don't think so we are stuck with a run of the mill average QB. That wouldn't be so bad if we picked him in the 2nd or 3rd rd where he belonged instead of trading away a lot of picks to get him as if we were drafting Elway or some other franchise type QB, [B]this kid is not a franchise QB[/B], although Gibbs didn't need franchise QB's in the past, but he sure needs one now.

[B] I don't know about Mangini, do you think he has been right about Pennington? Something tells me the benching this week kind of says no[/B].

[B] Further more I would like to think Shanahan knows a little about QB's, and to bring Ramsey in behind a 2nd year starter when it is very conceivable that he might need to give Cutler a breather now and then as he learns, should tell you the guy sees something in him to give him a 2 year contract[/B].


[B] Funny you use 14 starts as an excuse for this kid yet Ramsey probably didn't have that with us, and Ramsey hadn't performed any worse than Campbell,[/B] but you know it's the teams fault and not Campbells inability to convert 3rd downs? The bottom line here is whether or not Ramsey will ever pan out remains to seen, but lets face it if Gibbs sang his praises instead of the teachers pet in Brunell you would still be slobbering all over him, [B]it comes down to what gibbs tells you to think[/B], unfortunately you still think your listening to a 3 time SB winner and that coach has long left the building, we have a coach now living off that rep while he continues to make us look like the laughing stock of the league, because that is what we are at this point lets not sugar coat it!

Do you really want to know how to make this kid pan out? I will tell you, we need to build a monster O-line to limit what Campbell has to do, so that the burden of winning is not square on his shoulders, sounds a lot like Gibbs first go round doesn't it, the fact is regardless of what notoriety our current line has [when healthy] they do not push players off the LOS, that's what we had in the 80's, and that's what we don't have now, Gibbs needs to recognize this and bring that type of O-lineman in, unfortunately he hasn't yet and I doubt he will devote the efforts necessary to make that happen.[/quote]

I'll answer your key points that I put in bold:

No not really, it's ok to change your mind and *gasp*, admit when you are wrong. You were very adamant when JC was drafted that it was a huge mistake. It wouldn't be a bad thing to back off that stance now, plenty of others have including myself.

Time will tell, and it's a little early to lean heavily either way wouldn't you agree?

Well, he was right last year when Pennington was the comeback player of the year. This benching really doesn't say much about Pennington, he hasn't played all that bad (87.5 QB rating). He's being benched because the Jets are 1-7 and they need to see what Clemens is made of.

A 2 year contract is hardly a vote of confidence. Hell, the Jets gave him an extension and then cut him less than a year later after they couldn't find someone to trade him to. Besides, Cutler is no danger of being benched unless he gets hurt.

Ramsey started 24 games for the Redskins. Saying that JC only has 14 starts is not an excuse, it's fact. And to expect the world from a guy with 14 starts is a little ridiculous. Look at Eli Manning who is just now starting to come into his own.

No, not really. For me it comes down to what I saw from him during those 24 starts. His decision making and accuracy never improved. Campbell in a much shorter time has already shown improvements in both areas.

Re: Carlos Rogers Done For The Year
 

[QUOTE=offiss;372064]True about there defense and making QB's look bad, but 52 nothing bad late in the game, there are different levels of bad, and Campbell pegged the needle. Further more I wouldn't base a judgement on one game that wouldn't be fair, but he really hasen't done a whole lot to show me he's the goods so far, but I will say I hope he gets a fair shot unlike Ramsey.


No need to back off at this point, the fact is I don't ever see this kid becoming a bonafide SB type QB, EVER! But if I start saying it now I would never here the end of it, personally I was just passing time until it's official you know just like Portis, Brunell, Arrington, etc. and so on. Sorry but if you want it straight there it is, lets face it we have a 3rd year QB who is still learning how to find an open WR, he will be ready for retirement by the time he consistently is able to find one. I do like him seems like a class act, and I will root for him to prove me 1000% wrong, but I don't think so we are stuck with a run of the mill average QB. That wouldn't be so bad if we picked him in the 2nd or 3rd rd where he belonged instead of trading away a lot of picks to get him as if we were drafting Elway or some other franchise type QB, this kid is not a franchise QB, although Gibbs didn't need franchise QB's in the past, but he sure needs one now.

I don't know about Mangini, do you think he has been right about Pennington? Something tells me the benching this week kind of says no.

Further more I would like to think Shanahan knows a little about QB's, and to bring Ramsey in behind a 2nd year starter when it is very conceivable that he might need to give Cutler a breather now and then as he learns, should tell you the guy sees something in him to give him a 2 year contract.


Funny you use 14 starts as an excuse for this kid yet Ramsey probably didn't have that with us, and Ramsey hadn't performed any worse than Campbell, but you know it's the teams fault and not Campbells inability to convert 3rd downs? The bottom line here is whether or not Ramsey will ever pan out remains to seen, but lets face it if Gibbs sang his praises instead of the teachers pet in Brunell you would still be slobbering all over him, it comes down to what gibbs tells you to think, unfortunately you still think your listening to a 3 time SB winner and that coach has long left the building, we have a coach now living off that rep while he continues to make us look like the laughing stock of the league, because that is what we are at this point lets not sugar coat it!

Do you really want to know how to make this kid pan out? I will tell you, we need to build a monster O-line to limit what Campbell has to do, so that the burden of winning is not square on his shoulders, sounds a lot like Gibbs first go round doesn't it, the fact is regardless of what notoriety our current line has [when healthy] they do not push players off the LOS, that's what we had in the 80's, and that's what we don't have now, Gibbs needs to recognize this and bring that type of O-lineman in, unfortunately he hasn't yet and I doubt he will devote the efforts necessary to make that happen.[/QUOTE]

1.) You don't see JC becoming a bona fide SB type QB ever? Who IS a bona fide SB type QB? There aren't many. Let me remind you that Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson both won Super bowls.

2.) Shannahan doesn't know jack squat about QBs, IMO. Look at what he's done since Elway: nothing. To use his judgment as a gauge of Ramsey's talent is absurd.