Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=dgack;371984]Entirely possible. Call me next year when LLoyd is making D-grade hip-hop videos. I don't understand what's so retarded about signing a guy like Williams for pocket change. Hell, sign him to the practice squad.

Obviously if the dude still thinks he's worth 1st round pick money, it doesn't make sense. But whatever, I was honestly asking a legit question more than anything else and a bunch of people apparently took offense to that.

I'm sure you guys don't necessarily intend it, but there is a really thick air of arrogance that comes down hard on people who post things that are considered "retarded" by whoever sets the conversation bar that week.

Hey, it's your site, do as you like. But speaking frankly and personally, some of the reactions to threads like this make me not want to participate as much, because it's just arbitrary and wrong.

But again, it's your house, you set the rules.[/quote]

I don't care what happens with Lloyd frankly and I don't see where Williams would represent any sort of an improvement over Lloyd either.

Nobody is coming down on you personally, try to understand that some of us just get sick of these threads looking to pick up everyone else's garbage anytime someone gets released.

I mean c'mon, Mike Williams isn't even a good player.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Schneed10;371990]Dgack, you're free to call my ideas retarded if you think they are. [/quote]

Not my style. But thanks for the offer.

I appreciate the more in-depth analysis in this post, though, it is a lot easier to consider a counter-argument when the person making it isn't insulting you. ;)

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=dgack;371968]Another good argument. It's true that the small, fast receiver has really taken the NFL by storm and tall, strong receivers don't succeed at hauling down jump balls anymore.[/quote]

I'm sorry but this just isn't true. In addition to the receiving stats i just posted here are some numbers for receiving TD's. The top 5 in this category is as follows:

1. Randy Moss - [B]6'4"...11 TD's[/B]
2. Braylon Edwards - [B]6'3"...9 TD's[/B]
3. TJ Housh - [B]6'1"...9 TD's[/B]
4. Plaxico burress - [B]6'5"...8 TD's[/B]
5. Dallas Clark - [B]6'3"...6 TD's[/B]
and if u look further down the list in the [B]top 40[/B] only Wes Welker, Steve Smith and Laveraneus Coles (5'11") are under 6 feet.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Mattyk72;371994]I don't care what happens with Lloyd frankly and I don't see where Williams would represent any sort of an improvement over Lloyd either.

Nobody is coming down on you personally, try to understand that some of us just get sick of these threads looking to pick up everyone else's garbage anytime someone gets released.

I mean c'mon, Mike Williams isn't even a good player.[/quote]

Like I said, it's your site and you can do as you like. But I think you guys tend to get frustrated with " the same threads over and over" as if everyone should know what are the "acceptable" topics of conversation.

Maybe nobody is coming down personally, but all the "this is retarded" stuff directly implies that those of us asking, "hey, can he really be any worse than our worst current WR" are "retarded" (and I won't even get into how that can be offensive to anybody who is the parent of a disabled child, because I'm not, but know people who are).

Anyway, I just find it interesting that you have no problem coming down on a thread like this when most of the discussion has been trying to do some analysis, but it's totally okay to let a 400+ post thread go that devolved into a discussion that had nothing to do with football for the most part (the Belichick and his class thread)

I was under the impression that this site was the forum for the "Intelligent Redskin fan". Whether or not you agree with someone's opinion, I would think that it would be welcomed and respectfully discussed as long as those opinions are presented with well-reasoned arguments.

"This is retarded" doesn't really meet the definition of "well-reasoned" in my mind, but YMMV.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Rajmahal33;371997]I'm sorry but this just isn't true. In addition to the receiving stats i just posted here are some numbers for receiving TD's. The top 5 in this category is as follows:

1. Randy Moss - [B]6'4"...11 TD's[/B]
2. Braylon Edwards - [B]6'3"...9 TD's[/B]
3. TJ Housh - [B]6'1"...9 TD's[/B]
4. Plaxico burress - [B]6'5"...8 TD's[/B]
5. Dallas Clark - [B]6'3"...6 TD's[/B]
and if u look further down the list in the [B]top 40[/B] only Wes Welker, Steve Smith and Laveraneus Coles (5'11") are under 6 feet.[/quote]

I know, I was being sarcastic.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

I personally think that this is a legit topic. In fact, I thought of starting the thread myself, even though I would never want to sign the guy.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

I haven't responded to this thread simply because I don't think it's a discussion worth debating. Nothing against Mike Williams or those that want him but I see no benefit of bringing him here or any real reason to defend my stance on it. I just don't think it's a very relevant issue.

So I've just been reading the posts and not responding. And that's the general approach I think many should take. Just keep your mout shut. There is no obligation to respond in every thread. Bad threads (not specifically saying this is one) tend to die out.

But since I have responded now, I would just say with all our injuries right now and with Keenan and Reche barely playing (if at all) we shouldn't use an extra body on our rapidly depleting roster for somehow who probably won't have any impact on the roster this season.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372006]I personally think that this is a legit topic. In fact, I thought of starting the thread myself, even though I would never want to sign the guy.[/QUOTE]

See that, one mod thinks it's worth discussing, another doesn't. And life goes on. Only in America!

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

sorry didn't catch that over the text, dgack

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=dgack;372000]Like I said, it's your site and you can do as you like. But I think you guys tend to get frustrated with " the same threads over and over" as if everyone should know what are the "acceptable" topics of conversation.

Maybe nobody is coming down personally, but all the "this is retarded" stuff directly implies that those of us asking, "hey, can he really be any worse than our worst current WR" are "retarded" (and I won't even get into how that can be offensive to anybody who is the parent of a disabled child, because I'm not, but know people who are).

Anyway, I just find it interesting that you have no problem coming down on a thread like this when most of the discussion has been trying to do some analysis, but it's totally okay to let a 400+ post thread go that devolved into a discussion that had nothing to do with football for the most part (the Belichick and his class thread)

I was under the impression that this site was the forum for the "Intelligent Redskin fan". Whether or not you agree with someone's opinion, I would think that it would be welcomed and respectfully discussed as long as those opinions are presented with well-reasoned arguments.

"This is retarded" doesn't really meet the definition of "well-reasoned" in my mind, but YMMV.[/quote]

Fair enough perhaps I was a little harsh. Don't get me wrong though I'm not saying that we should not even be discussing this, it's just my opinion that Williams is garbage and not worth looking at.

Carry on.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

if you watch him play, he's gotta be one of the slowest receivers in (or formerly in) the nfl. That's not what we need.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Mattyk72;372017]Fair enough perhaps I was a little harsh. Don't get me wrong though I'm not saying that we should not even be discussing this, it's just my opinion that Williams is garbage and not worth looking at.

Carry on.[/quote]I think he just made the mistake of confusing your opinion for the law of the site.

It can be tough to keep the two entities seperate, I realize. But the Mike Williams argument seems almost irrelivant, and I'm surprised that the site polarized on this issue so quickly.

As for my opinion, I don't really view Mike Williams and Brandon Lloyd any different as players. But if we had brought Lloyd in here for less than a million dollars a season, and signed him as someone else's castoff as opposed to giving 2 picks for him, I'd defend the move to sign him far more often than I do.

I don't know where we have the roster room for Mike Williams, but still it seems like a more relevant topic than the next Mike Espy conversation.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=GTripp0012;372045][B]I think he just made the mistake of confusing your opinion for the law of the site.[/B]

It can be tough to keep the two entities seperate, I realize. But the Mike Williams argument seems almost irrelivant, and I'm surprised that the site polarized on this issue so quickly.

As for my opinion, I don't really view Mike Williams and Brandon Lloyd any different as players. But if we had brought Lloyd in here for less than a million dollars a season, and signed him as someone else's castoff as opposed to giving 2 picks for him, I'd defend the move to sign him far more often than I do.

I don't know where we have the roster room for Mike Williams, but still it seems like a more relevant topic than the next Mike Espy conversation.[/quote]

Well said, unfortunately that happens a lot. Not sure what I can really do about it unless I start posting under an alias.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[quote=Mattyk72;372046]Well said, unfortunately that happens a lot. Not sure what I can really do about it unless I start posting under an alias.[/quote]I think it just comes with the territory, and I'm not sure theres a whole lot that can be done.

I'm just shocked that this Williams issue got ugly fast. I can't think of too many other players in the league that I would like to avoid talking about more.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

We already have 3 well paid wr's that are not producing. Why bring in one that is cheap that won't produce? That's not how The Redskins do business. They would rather over pay and get no production

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

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Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

Since I started this thread, let me say that my interest as a Skins fan is in looking at a draft decision we made in 05 when we selected Rogers. That pick IMO has been overly criticized on this site as I think CR was coming along, really sorry that he got hurt.

I did think for a minute that the skins might look at signing him, but I doubt it due to other needs & the fact that Caldwell & keenan were just brought in.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

If I remember correctly allot of people here back when Williams was draft were upset that we did not pick him.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

I think Mike Williams if in the correct system could still be a good player. However, I don't think our system is right for him, and we already have a bunch of WRs that we either never use, don't use correctly, or can't catch the ball. If I found out we signed Williams and cut Caldwell, thrash, etc -- I wouldn't be surprised or even really care that much.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

Speaking of Keenan I wish we would start working him in more. The guy knows how to run a route with the best of them, he can still get open, and he's got good hands. Get him the damn ball already.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;372054]If I remember correctly allot of people here back when Williams was draft were upset that we did not pick him.[/QUOTE]

Yup and I was one of those people. :doh:

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

also, I'll add that Williams is slow - remember when he said he would "bet the farm" that he could run a 4.5 in the combine? He lost the farm at 4.6, then over the years had weight issues.

On the up side the dude might've been a great H-back prospect in the old Gibbs system. He has great hands & is "super smart" to boot. Problem is, he has failed to 'fight his guts out' since he's been in the nfl.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

I am of the opionion that we should bring the guy in for a look.

If nothing else, he would have the potential to add height to our red zone offense mix. This would at least provide the threat of running something like a fade route, which due to our personel must be completely absent from our playbook...

I dont think you necessarily have to be all that fast to run a fade route...or any routes inside the 10 for that matter. If he had the potential to become a good red zone threat that would already make bringing him in worthwhile...whether or not he could see the field between the 20's is a different story.

The way it looks now though, i dont think reche caldwell is going to see the field at all this year...so maybe the coaches dont like him as much as they thought they would...and Tom Brady is the only thing that made him look like a half decent receiver??? WHo knows... But if the coaches cant use him...and he is taking up a roster spot, we could always cut him to make room for MW. Just my 2 cents

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

A team without a WR touchdown going into our 8th game definately cannot afford to not even take a look at Mike Williams. Its not like were loaded with WR on our roster, were so bad off that we have already signed Reche Caldwell and Keenen McCardell whose like 100 years old, it cant be much worse than the situation we have going with Brandon Lloyd, and this experiment will be a hell of alot cheaper.

Re: Mike Williams Cut by Raiders
 

As most fellow heads on this site know, I almost died when we passed on Mike Williams for Carlos Rogers a few years ago. I watched (in person) BMW make college corners look like pee-wee players in the coliseum for two full seasons. I had never seen anyone that dominant during my years at SC.

Having said all that, I've come to believe the mental problems with Williams started while he was at college. He was able to have success based on his size and talent alone- a man among boys, if you will. The coaches never told him no and I believe he had a free pass for some things. Being late to meetings wasn't new to him when he arrived in Detroit- he did it in SC too, without repercussion. Carroll tried to convince him that the Clarrett case was not going to win and he should stay for another year. By then it was too late- MW's mind was made up because he thought he could do anything.

I'd like to believe he could get his head back in the game- he's got the physical talent down, without question (of course, he'd stand to lose a few pounds). But it's more likely looking like a Kwame Brown scenario- you can coach him and yell at him all you want... but if he doesn't want to do it for himself, it's a hopeless cause.