Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Everyone wants to talk about the great explosive offenses Al Saunders had in Kansas City and how he made it work with guys like Marc Boeritger and Al Saunders. But what was the real key to that offense? A strong O-Line and running game. What's one of the most underappreciated reason the Colts passing game is so good? They have a strong running game and Manning is brilliant on play action.

It may be true that passing is more prevalent than it was say 10 years ago, but you can't ignore the value of a good running attack.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep;372303]Forget the pats--we've got to clean up our own house right now.

My feeling about the "back to basics" thing is that it may not be back to Gibbs' basics as much as back to what this team can do--I don't think they have the o-line to smash many mouths, but they may have the o-line to do other things. In fact, it might be that they STOP trying to smash it, and start trying to move a bit more and use the athletic ability of people like Rabach, for example.

As for progress ,we're 4-3 with the season ahead of us. One thing that's often lost here is how much of football is momentum and confidence. We don't have either right now. But when we get that (if we do), lots of things that are not working now will work. It's a game of inches, and if we can find a way to get that inch, things will open up, IMO.

As for Saunders--we'll see. I'm not convinced that he and Gibbs cannot work together, and that's something they've got to figure out, fast, if they are messing radically with things. My feeling is it won't be so radical, but it will still be Saunders. That may ham-string Saunders with his big playbook, but it may give us a chance to finally execute some of his plays, which we haven't done to this point, at least not consistently.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that 4 years after Gibbs gets here we are still having to worry about cleaning up our own house. We should be in the fine tuning stage now not clean up.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=saden1;372341]What? They do go hand in hand. You run the ball to setup your passing game...that's Football 101...it has been, it is, and will forever be.[/QUOTE]

You forget that the average ADHD football fan is to enamored with the pretty footballs flying through the air to pay attention to statistics.

Fact of the matter is that even the famously "pass happy" offenses like the Patriots and Colts also have Top Ten running games.

The Colts running game is #5 overall, averaging 31 rushes per game, 4.4 YPC and 140 yds/game.

The Patriots running game is #8 overall, averaging 32 rushes per game, 4.2 YPC and 135 yds/game.

As saden said, historically in the NFL the run game is used to establish the pass and I see no reason whatsoever to think any differently in 2007.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;372321]Tell that to teams like the Steelers and Jags who still play a smashmouth, run first style of play.[/quote]

How many playoff games has Jacksonville won since Del Rio took over with his style of play? None. That style only gets you so far in today's NFL.. Especially in the AFC.

Regarding Pittsburgh, yes they play smashmouth BUT they get big plays out of the passing game all the time. 15 passing TD's this year. Only NE, Dallas and Clev. have more. They get the ball to the wideouts, Ward and Holmes.

Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=saden1;372341]What? They do go hand in hand. You run the ball to setup your passing game...that's Football 101...it has been, it is, and will forever be.[/quote]

No, it was football 101.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=mheisig;372367]You forget that the average ADHD football fan is to enamored with the pretty footballs flying through the air to pay attention to statistics.

Fact of the matter is that even the famously "pass happy" offenses like the Patriots and Colts also have Top Ten running games.

The Colts running game is #5 overall, averaging 31 rushes per game, 4.4 YPC and 140 yds/game.

The Patriots running game is #8 overall, averaging 32 rushes per game, 4.2 YPC and 135 yds/game.

As saden said, historically in the NFL the run game is used to establish the pass and I see no reason whatsoever to think any differently in 2007.[/quote]

The difference is those teams pass and sprinkle in run plays. They DO NOT try and come out and play smashmouth all the time.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;372368]How many playoff games has Jacksonville won since Del Rio took over with his style of play? None. That style only gets you so far in today's NFL.. Especially in the AFC.

[B]Regarding Pittsburgh, yes they play smashmouth BUT they get big plays out of the passing game all the time. 15 passing TD's this year. Only NE, Dallas and Clev. have more. They get the ball to the wideouts, Ward and Holmes.[/B]

Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. [B]Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det[/B]. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.[/quote]

How do you think they set up the big plays?

As for those teams you mentioned only Detroit and Green Bay don't run the ball well, and even Detroit has been coming on as of late. You simply can't discount the importance of being able to the run ball. If Green Bay doesn't find a running game I don't care how well they can throw it their inability to run it will catch up with them come playoff time.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372323]Or to our [B]11th ranked 2005 offense[/B] which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.[/quote]

Oh my god. Back to 05. We beat a bunch of teams that were playing with back up QB's. I'm not taking anything away from that but we got alot of nice breaks with other teams injuries. But the Dallas and Giants game were legit.

But in the end that 11th ranked offense couldn't even get 50 yards passing in a playoff game and had to have the defense win the game. That is why Sanders has a job here.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372368]Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.[/QUOTE]

Not true.

Combined Record of the Top 10 Rushing Teams (NFL): [B]50-22[/B]

Combined Record of the Top 10 Passing Teams (NFL): [B]47-25[/B]

You simply cannot argue that the passing teams have the best records, because they don't. Using your line of reasoning the only thing you could argue is that the difference is negligible or the rushing teams have a slight advantage.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372372]The difference is those teams pass and sprinkle in run plays. They DO NOT try and come out and play smashmouth all the time.[/QUOTE]

Patriots Pass Attempts/game: [B]34[/B]
Patriots Rush Attempts/game: [B]32[/B]

Colts Pass Attempts/game: [B]33[/B]
Colts Rush Attempts/game: [B]31[/B]

You're saying that an almost perfect 50/50 balance of Pass/Rush attempts means that these teams are "sprinkling in run plays"?

Seriously, [URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/team"]NFL.com Statistics.[/URL] Give it a try some time - it makes for far more intelligent arguments.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;372374]How do you think they set up the big plays?

As for those teams you mentioned only Detroit and Green Bay don't run the ball well, and even Detroit has been coming on as of late. You simply can't discount the importance of being able to the run ball. If Green Bay doesn't find a running game I don't care how well they can throw it their inability to run it will catch up with them come playoff time.[/quote]

In no way do I discount it. Not at all. But I just don't think it's life or death like Gibbs and Bugel do. That is why they are not in touch with today's NFL. If they would just look around they would see what the good teams are doing and adjust. That's why I'm so down on Gibbs. He was simply the master at adjusting his 1st go around. Who was better at adjusting than Gibbs 1? No one.

If he would just look at the line he would know that they can't play smash mouth. Everyone knows we are going to run to the left side, and Fabini and Wade can not run block.

I remember the 89 team. Just barely missed the playoffs cause of massive injuries. The rb's were all beat up and he just said I'm going to put it on Monk, Clark and Sanders. That was the year all 3 went over 1,000 yards. How many times has that ever been done in the NFL? 2-3 times maybe?? So this is the stuff I'm talking about. The guy knows offensive football. He was the first one to come out with the bunch sets and one back stuff. But he is so damn stubborn about opening up the offense and putting it on the WR's who are suppose to be the strength of the team. Plus he's got Sanders here. Yet we still can't score points and we are 27th or 28th in offense? We have all these wr's and a deep ball thrower yet not one single wr has a td pass this year??? If I were Snyder I would be so damn pissed it's not even funny.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372375]Oh my god. Back to 05. We beat a bunch of teams that were playing with back up QB's. I'm not taking anything away from that but we got alot of nice breaks with other teams injuries. But the Dallas and Giants game were legit.

But in the end that 11th ranked offense couldn't even get 50 yards passing in a playoff game and had to have the defense win the game. That is why Sanders has a job here.[/QUOTE]

What does an opponents' QB have to do with running all over a defense? And how is it that you attribute other teams' losses to their injuries, but you don't attribute our woes on offense during the 2005 playoffs to our injuries (e.g., Portis)? Why the double-standard?

As for the notion that teams must field pass-first offenses in order to be successful, I beg to differ. As others have pointed out, look no further than to teams like the Steelers, Jags, Titans, Bears, Falcons, Ravens, etc.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=mheisig;372377]Patriots Pass Attempts/game: [B]34[/B]
Patriots Rush Attempts/game: [B]32[/B]

Colts Pass Attempts/game: [B]33[/B]
Colts Rush Attempts/game: [B]31[/B]

You're saying that an almost perfect 50/50 balance of Pass/Rush attempts means that these teams are "sprinkling in run plays"?

Seriously, [URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/team"]NFL.com Statistics.[/URL] Give it a try some time - it makes for far more intelligent arguments.[/quote]

I don't need a silly stat line to have an intelligent argument. I can watch the games and see for myself.

Look at it this way. I don't know the yardage stats but I would bet that those teams are all well over 200 yards a game passing. They get plays in the passing game that are over 15 yards. That means they don't have to have 10-15 play drives to score. Yes it's good if you can do that but defenses are too good. You have to be able to score on let's say 4-7 play drives sometimes.

Plus those teams don't come out and try and establish the run at all costs. They play 3rd down offense on 1st down where it is a little easier to get big passing plays. We never play 3rd down offense on 1st down. Do you ever see JC in shotgun on 1st down? No.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372381]What does an opponents' QB have to do with running all over a defense? And how is it that you attribute other teams' losses to their injuries, but you don't attribute our woes on offense during the 2005 playoffs to our injuries (e.g., Portis)? Why the double-standard?

As for the notion that teams must field pass-first offenses in order to be successful, I beg to differ. As others have pointed out, look no further than to teams like the Steelers, Jags, Titans, Bears, Falcons, Ravens, etc.[/quote]

You are missing my point. Read my post to Matty.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=mheisig;372377]Patriots Pass Attempts/game: [B]34[/B]
Patriots Rush Attempts/game: [B]32[/B]

Colts Pass Attempts/game: [B]33[/B]
Colts Rush Attempts/game: [B]31[/B]

You're saying that an almost perfect 50/50 balance of Pass/Rush attempts means that these teams are "sprinkling in run plays"?

Seriously, [URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/team"]NFL.com Statistics.[/URL] Give it a try some time - it makes for far more intelligent arguments.[/quote]

Thank you.

I love posts where people back up what they are saying with some hard data, vs. what they "observe".

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372382][B]I don't need a silly stat line to have an intelligent argument. I can watch the games and see for myself.[/B]

Look at it this way. I don't know the yardage stats but I would bet that those teams are all well over 200 yards a game passing. They get plays in the passing game that are over 15 yards. That means they don't have to have 10-15 play drives to score. Yes it's good if you can do that but defenses are too good. You have to be able to score on let's say 4-7 play drives sometimes.

Plus those teams don't come out and try and establish the run at all costs. They play 3rd down offense on 1st down where it is a little easier to get big passing plays. We never play 3rd down offense on 1st down. Do you ever see JC in shotgun on 1st down? No.[/QUOTE]

Understood. Who needs a "silly stat line" when anecdotal observations and unquantifiable assertions are the name of the game.

Looks like we have the makings of a good discussion. :doh:

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;372385]Thank you.

I love posts where people back up what they are saying with some hard data, vs. what they "observe".[/QUOTE]

Actually, Matty, that was just a "silly stat line."

I docked myself a few reputation points for using that "silly stat line."

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372384]You are missing my point. Read my post to Matty.[/QUOTE]

That addressed a different point. Your original post seemed to state that teams pass to set up the run or that run, run, run offenses can't make it in the NFL.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

this offense we play is to predictable. same offense we had before we had saunders. we never spread teams out with 4 wrs. i know our o-line is hurt and struggling but you need to give teams some different looks. going into every week i keep hoping the offenese shows up and spread teams out and show some of that saunders play book. if we can beat the jets we will be 5-3 and most of us would have taken that before the season started. i just hope we can get the offense on track and not lose anybody else to injury

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372323]Or to our [B]11th ranked 2005 offense[/B] which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.[/quote]Don't forget to go along with that smashmouth style, we also had a pretty good passing game. Brunell was the 3rd rated passer in the NFC that year, and likely should have gone to the probowl, but they had to make room for the wonderful person that his Michael Vick, the 14th rated passer in the NFC, who was almost as efficient as Josh McCown.

This team just seems to be better on offense with an efficent running game, although the passing game needs to be clicking also.

In the first half of 2006, the rushing game was terrible, but the passing game kept us close (which is good because we were chasing because we were running the ball awful and playing crappy defense) against bad teams. Then we benched our QB and our passing game, but our rushing game found itself.

This year, the idea was going to be to put it back together like in 2005, but on the contrary, both aspect are crappy although for entirely different reasons.

The offense may very well need the running game to come back for the passing game to be effective. Our timing routes don't work. Period. I have no problem with the coaches trying to reestablish the running game [B]as long as they try something new[/B]. The old crap from the last 6 games isn't going to work, and we are wasting plays trying it.

A QB's best friend is a competant running game, and Campbell doesn't have it right now for the first time in his college or pro career.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=mheisig;372387]Actually, Matty, that was just a "silly stat line."

I docked myself a few reputation points for using that "silly stat line."[/quote]

I think you guys have drank waaaaaaaaaaay too much Joe Gibbs Kool Aid.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;372396]Don't forget to go along with that smashmouth style, we also had a pretty good passing game. Brunell was the 3rd rated passer in the NFC that year, and likely should have gone to the probowl, but they had to make room for the wonderful person that his Michael Vick, the 14th rated passer in the NFC, who was almost as efficient as Josh McCown.

This team just seems to be better on offense with an efficent running game, although the passing game needs to be clicking also.

In the first half of 2006, the rushing game was terrible, but the passing game kept us close (which is good because we were chasing because we were running the ball awful and playing crappy defense) against bad teams. Then we benched our QB and our passing game, but our rushing game found itself.

This year, the idea was going to be to put it back together like in 2005, but on the contrary, both aspect are crappy although for entirely different reasons.

The offense may very well need the running game to come back for the passing game to be effective. Our timing routes don't work. Period. I have no problem with the coaches trying to reestablish the running game [B]as long as they try something new[/B]. The old crap from the last 6 games isn't going to work, and we are wasting plays trying it.

A QB's best friend is a competant running game, and Campbell doesn't have it right now for the first time in his college or pro career.[/quote]

The 2005 offense stunk when it mattered most and that is why Sanders is here.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372415]I think you guys have drank waaaaaaaaaaay too much Joe Gibbs Kool Aid.[/QUOTE]

Because you can't form a coherent argument or because you are wrong? :cheeky-sm Kidding, of course.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372416]The 2005 offense stunk when it mattered most and that is why Sanders is here.[/QUOTE]

The 11th ranked offense was running over people left and right. That we faced teams with injured QBs (i.e., Rams and Eagles) has nothing to do with the offense's ability to run on opposing defenses. So it shouldn't come as a surprise when our starting tailback (who put up over 1,5000 yards) and our best run-blocking lineman (Randy Thomas) go down. So why is it that you don't consider our injuries as a defense for anything, but you make excuses for other teams' injuries?

The offense left a lot to be desired, but it was definitely good enough.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372417]Because you can't form a coherent argument or because you are wrong? :cheeky-sm Kidding, of course.[/quote]

LOL! Do you guys watch other teams? Or are you just Redskin homers that don't see outside the box?

Look around. Alot of teams pass to set up the run. Alot of teams pass to loosen up the defense and then come back with the run later. We can't run so why try to play ball control and run the clock out instead of trying to maybe pass more to get more points? That running out the clock crap has lost us games. It almost lost the Ariz game and it lost the Giants game. It lost games in 05 and so on.

I was watching the Clev. game this past weekend and they made an consistent effort to get Braylon Edwards the ball downfield. Not throwing stupid little pussy ass screen passes that don't work. They threw it to him 15-30 yards downfield. Why aren't we doing this with Santana? He's our big play guy. Right? Is Clev any better than we are at the skill positions? They have a better line right now but we can still throw down field with our line. We just don't try to.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372418]The 11th ranked offense was running over people left and right. That we faced teams with injured QBs (i.e., Rams and Eagles) has nothing to do with the offense's ability to run on opposing defenses. So it shouldn't come as a surprise when our starting tailback (who put up over 1,5000 yards) and our best run-blocking lineman (Randy Thomas) go down. So why is it that you don't consider our injuries as a defense for anything, but you make excuses for other teams' injuries?

The offense left a lot to be desired, but it was definitely good enough.[/quote]

Well apparently it was not good enough. It wasn't good enough in the playoffs was it? Is that the goal now? To just make the playoffs?

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372421]LOL! Do you guys watch other teams? Or are you just Redskin homers that don't see outside the box?

Look around. Alot of teams pass to set up the run. Alot of teams pass to loosen up the defense and then come back with the run later. We can't run so why try to play ball control and run the clock out instead of trying to maybe pass more to get more points? That running out the clock crap has lost us games. It almost lost the Ariz game and it lost the Giants game. It lost games in 05 and so on.

I was watching the Clev. game this past weekend and they made an consistent effort to get Braylon Edwards the ball downfield. Not throwing stupid little pussy ass screen passes that don't work. They threw it to him 15-30 yards downfield. Why aren't we doing this with Santana? He's our big play guy. Right? Is Clev any better than we are at the skill positions? They have a better line right now but we can still throw down field with our line. We just don't try to.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I watch plenty of games. I also have statistical, factual basis for my arguments rather than just spouting anecdotal nonsense.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372421]LOL! Do you guys watch other teams? Or are you just Redskin homers that don't see outside the box?

Look around. Alot of teams pass to set up the run. Alot of teams pass to loosen up the defense and then come back with the run later. We can't run so why try to play ball control and run the clock out instead of trying to maybe pass more to get more points? That running out the clock crap has lost us games. It almost lost the Ariz game and it lost the Giants game. It lost games in 05 and so on.

I was watching the Clev. game this past weekend and they made an consistent effort to get Braylon Edwards the ball downfield. Not throwing stupid little pussy ass screen passes that don't work. They threw it to him 15-30 yards downfield. Why aren't we doing this with Santana? He's our big play guy. Right? Is Clev any better than we are at the skill positions? They have a better line right now but we can still throw down field with our line. We just don't try to.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure why you keep changing the issue. You said that this isn't the 1980s anymore and teams don't run to set up the pass. You were wrong, so now you are changing the question to "Can you pass to set up the run?" Yes they can, but that wasn't the issue you first posed.

BTW, implying that we are idiots who can't see out of the box and that you are laughing out loud at us isn't going to get you very far.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=mheisig;372436]Yes, I watch plenty of games. I also have statistical, factual basis for my arguments rather than just spouting anecdotal nonsense.[/quote]

So the whole Washington sports media and many former players that agree with my opinions are spouting anecdotal nonsense??? I'm just not a stat geek ( like you ) that lives and dies with numbers. Stats never tell the whole story.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372423]Well apparently it was not good enough. It wasn't good enough in the playoffs was it? Is that the goal now? To just make the playoffs?[/QUOTE]

It was good enough for the Ravens and Bucs - teams that relied on their defenses and running games to win the big ones. See I watch other teams.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372441]So the whole Washington sports media and many former players that agree with my opinions are spouting anecdotal nonsense??? I'm just not a stat geek ( like you ) that lives and dies with numbers. Stats never tell the whole story.[/QUOTE]

Everyone involved in this thread needs to chill. This thread is quickly headed to a lockdown.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372440]I'm not sure why you keep changing the issue. You said that this isn't the 1980s anymore and teams don't run to set up the pass. You were wrong, so now you are changing the question to "Can you pass to set up the run?" Yes they can, but that wasn't the issue you first posed.

BTW, implying that we are idiots who can't see out of the box and that you are laughing out loud at us isn't going to get you very far.[/quote]

I said alot of teams pass to set up the run and those happen to be the best teams in the NFL. It's a copy cat league right?

BTW... Did I ever call you an idiot? No. I may call some people homers, Kool Aid drinkers and stat nerds but I don't attack people personally.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372443]Everyone involved in this thread needs to chill. This thread is quickly headed to a lockdown.[/quote]

Dude I'm fine. Mheisig always seems to go out of his way to attack me. Calling me a crack head and a loser and what not.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;372445]Dude I'm fine. Mheisig always seems to go out of his way to attack me. Calling me a crack head and a loser and what not.[/QUOTE]

Yup, that's why I said "everyone."

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=MTRedskinsFan;372165]Yeah baby I like this article. Like djnemo65 said above it sort of reveals some guys have not bought into the play-calling/gameplan up to this pt (as if it wasn't obvious enough on gameday!). Who's to say whether they will totally buy in going forward, but it sounds like it should be a better situation going forward.

Also, the article referred to the hybrid offense. IMO this has been the biggest f'n problem. It's not really Gibbs' gameplan or Saunders gameplan but a weakened compromise. If either guy were to fully takeover the result would be better than what we've seen. My personal opinion is that Saunders full takeover will yield the very best results (if or when that actually happens), but for now if the offense is going to return more heavily to Gibbs style attack, w/ the whole o-line digging in for battle in the trenches, we should see some improvement. Gibbs is smashmouth, and hopefully it can be done w/ the players we have today. When Thomas gets back Gibbs' smashmouth will work even better. Meanwhile, Saunders relies on a rhythm of play-calling to constantly throw the defense off kilter (remember KC). His style probably requires a higher level of execution and for everyone to be onboard, but I think in today's NFL it can be more effective than the smashmouth.[/quote]

We have no ability whatsoever to play smashmouth football. Our OL is weak and old and fragile. We're sure to get our butts kicked and lose a couple more players, including Portis. We're even terrible on short yardage and have been for years, even before half our line got knocked out. If I were a DL or LB I would be dying to play us right now-- especially after this macho nonsense about the running game. DL's are much more physical than our OL, which can't move or split the D line.

I'd rather play the whole game in a two minute offense rather than try to sustain drives on the ground with our current personnel. We're going to see a lot of three and outs.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

I always thought Football 101 was play to your strengths. If you have a top tier QB and above average pass protection, you throw more. If your running game is stronger and your pass protection is below average, you run more.

I'm a lazy man by nature so I won't bother looking up the numbers; however I would venture to guess the Colts and Patriots run the ball way more than pass in the 4th when they're ahead by 2 or 3 TD's...just like 90% of the rest of the league would do if they happen to find themselves frequently in such a situation.

Where was I! Oh yeah, teams with weak/inexperienced QB's should run more in order to set up the pass.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;372310]
No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.[/quote]
Many of the other responses have all provided great stats to back up the fact that the NFL is not just a "passing league".
Unfortunately we have a young QB and WRs who don't scare anyone, even if you spread the field out and come out in passing formations the defense can still cheat towards the run because our passing game isn't a threat. If you try to "air it out" unsuccessfully you will have a lot of "three and outs", you are not taking any time off the clock, or giving the defense any rest.
The NFL isn't just about being a "passing league", it is about scheming towards a team's strenghs and covering up the personnel weaknesses. The majority of NFL coaches are smart guys and work very hard, but at the NFL level it's mostly about talent and right now on offense our talent level is not very good. Our OL is injured and weak on the right side, our WRs are not very good, Portis is not looking good, Betts has not proven he is a "number one" back, Campbell is still basically a rookie and Cooley, while a top ten TE, isn't physically gifted like a Kellen Winslow, Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez, he cannot carry us.
So what should Joe Gibbs do, try to come out and throw the ball 70% of the time...OR...attempt to establish the run, work in some play action, manage the game, and rely on our solid defense and special teams to keep us in the game. I don't think it's a matter of the game passing Gibbs by, we just don't have the talent on offense.
You mentioned the Browns skill players not being better than ours in another post. I would take Braylon Edwards over any of our WRs, Jurevicous is a solid # 2, and Winslow is more of a physical threat than Cooley. How about some of the other skill players from teams you mentioned; Giants - Burress, Shockey, Toomer, Detroit - Calvin Johnson, Roy Williams, Seattle - WRs aren't scary, but Hasselbeck is a very solid veteran QB, GB - Driver & Jennings are getting it done and Favre is having his "last hurrah", Dallas - hurts to say it but their skill guys are better.
We just have to be realistic, we were 5-11 last year for a reason. To go to 8-8 or 9-7, while disappointing if we don't make the playoffs is a good improvement. If we make some solid personnel decisions in the off-season we are defintely going in the right direction.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;372308]The Pats are light years ahead of the majority of the league, let's not kid ourselves.[/QUOTE]

But don't you think we should be a little closer than what the score indicated? Or do you think we just had an off day?

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Benefits of running the ball:
1. Wears down the opponent's defense. If a defense is tired you can run and pass on them all day.
2. Play action, play action, play action! If you can't run the ball whose going to fall for you worthless play action fakes?


p.s. Someone has been playing Madden way too much!

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

By the same token, shouldn't the Lions be a little closer to us than what that score indicated?