Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss;374457]As for our QB's? Well Gibbs is allowed to hand pick them he's paid steep prices for what I believe to be failures, unlike when BB would find gems later in the draft. [B]Gibbs first go round he wanted to get rid of Theisman and Riggins, imagine if he had total control over personnel back then?[/B][/QUOTE]

YOU ARE AN IDIOT. THIS IS AN IDIOTIC STATEMENT AND BEARS NO RELATION TO THE TRUTH.

Sorry, read to many "Offiss loves Ramsey" posts and just lost it.

In Gibbs 1.0:

Gibbs had the authority to cut any player he wanted. Beathard brought'em in, but Gibbs could get rid of'em that's the way it worked. (Gibbs also, initially, wanted to get rid of Jacoby as just another undrafted lineman, but, as with Theisman, he gave him a chance and the players earned his trust).

Ramsey is, at best, a mediocre back-up who is immobile and, after multiple opportunities with multiple coaches, continues to be a turnover machine after six years in the league.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=Crazyhorse1;374410]Same old hate and BS about Ramsey. [B]Check his stats and record with the Skins[/B]-- still better than Brunell's or Campbell's, inspite of playing most of the equivalent of 22 games without blockers or receivers and with two horrible offensive coaches who abused and lied to him. It's pretty hard to blame the guy for twitching now.

This hatred of Ramsey came about because most Redskins fans were trying to defend Gibbs' absolute lunacy about Brunell. That lunacy has essentially destroyed the Skins, even until now. By the way, check out Ramsey's stats for this year.[/quote]


Sorry, wrong.

Ramsey was 8-12 as a starter for a winning % of .400. His QB rating here was 74.1.

Brunell was 16-19 including the playoffs for a winning % of .457. His QB rating here is 78.7.

Campbell is 7-8 for a winning % of .466. His QB rating is 75.6.

Nobody [B]hates[/B] Ramsey, we just think he's nothing special.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

Did you ever check out Bobby Beathard's draft choices in New Orleans and losses by the bunch even with high picks ???
Have you seen what they have done since they fired Bobby?
Please do not let him back running things in DC and Mr. Snyder I believe is smart to continue with what we have

[QUOTE=offiss;374457]Obviously what Skins fan didn't like Gibbs back in the day?

But Gibbs now? Here is what I think his real problem is and I said his first season back, he doesn't have Bobby Beathard feeding him unlimited talent, he's throwing away picks for no body's, BB gave him the best O-line in football for 10 years, Gibbs could dominate defensive lines and do what ever he wanted, ain't happening any more, I think Gibbs thought that he could handle personnel because of his superior coaching abilities and found out he needs superior talent to be affective, our O-line was the heart and soul of all those SB teams, and yet we really don't focus on that line in the draft, even when healthy our line does not push people backwards which is why we don't run the ball effectively which is why teams can load up on our WR's.

As for our QB's? Well Gibbs is allowed to hand pick them he's paid steep prices for what I believe to be failures, unlike when BB would find gems later in the draft. Gibbs first go round he wanted to get rid of Theisman and Riggins, imagine if he had total control over personnel back then?[/QUOTE]

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

Bobby Beathard was in New Orleans?

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

Beathard has the benefit of not having come back to dare tarnish his legacy. And the further removed from it we are, the better he seems to look. Gibbs dared to come back instead of sitting on his trophies. And now some idiotically (is that a world?) look back on the 80s and think all the glory is thanks to Beathard, and we conveniently ignore the Walter Murrays, Tory Nixons, and Raphel Cherrys (among others) of Beathard's reign.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

I think crazyhorse called the Lions a "vastly superior" team to the Broncos.

Are they better? Yeah. A lot better? No.

Ramsey did a pretty good job for one game all things considered. Let's not all get our panties in a bunch, he had a decent game here too once or twice ;)

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=GTripp0012;374539]I think crazyhorse called the Lions a "vastly superior" team to the Broncos.

Are they better? Yeah. A lot better? No.

[B]Ramsey did a pretty good job for one game all things considered[/B]. Let's not all get our panties in a bunch, he had a decent game here too once or twice ;)[/quote]

He had 2 turnovers go for TDs. Not sure how that's pretty good under any circumstances.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=Mattyk72;374564]He had 2 turnovers go for TDs. Not sure how that's pretty good under any circumstances.[/quote]Well, he should probably hang on to the ball, but again, looking at 2-3 plays out of an entire sample, and deciding that that's how you are going to draw your conclusion is going to lead to a different belief than everone else.

Ramsey has to do a better job protecting the ball, that much is certain, but the passing efficiency was there.

I say: quality backup.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

Who actually watched the entire Lions game? I did and I believe Matty did. Anyone else?

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

I was in the Lions market, so I was forced to see a bunch of plays. Did not see all of it though, and I missed a lot of the time that the Broncos' offense was on the field.

Most of it was in the Redskin commerical time.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

I watched most of it and I saw a typical Ramsey performance. Some nice throws, some bad decisions, and some turnovers. I agree he's a quality backup, but that's about it. He's not starting material as some people still seem to think.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=rk3025;374522]Did you ever check out Bobby Beathard's draft choices in New Orleans and losses by the bunch even with high picks ???
Have you seen what they have done since they fired Bobby?
Please do not let him back running things in DC and Mr. Snyder I believe is smart to continue with what we have[/QUOTE]
Dude - Bobby Beathard was never the GM in New Orleans. In fact, everywhere he went, success was sure to follow. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Beathard]Educate yourself.[/url]

Ramsey is nothing more than a serviceable backup in this league. He's proven that time and time again. Sunday was no different. He wasn't able to stop the bleeding after Cutler went down, and if Cutler can't go this weekend, he'll provide the Broncos with a veteran under center against Kansas City.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

We have a thread devoted to a second-rate QB playing fill-in on a team that's not in our division and not in our conference and that most likely we won't play this year?

Seriously, I'm a big fan of Thread Hell lately. Let's just be liberal with it.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;374498]Sorry, wrong.

Ramsey was 8-12 as a starter for a winning % of .400. His QB rating here was 74.1.

Brunell was 16-19 including the playoffs for a winning % of .457. His QB rating here is 78.7.

Campbell is 7-8 for a winning % of .466. His QB rating is 75.6.

Nobody [B]hates[/B] Ramsey, we just think he's nothing special.[/QUOTE]

Hey, get out of here with those "silly stats"!

We won't stand for someone using facts to debunk ignorance - away with you!

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss;374451]Say on brother!

The little I saw he had pressure in his face constantly, 1 game doesn't mean much, his numbers? Well if those were Campbell's numbers we would have thread after thread saying how he's coming into his own, it was pretty much garbage time in that game. Lets see what happens next week if he gets the start?

Gibbs and Lunacy? I couldn't agree more, the ship is sinking and Captain Quigg is at the wheel, or should I say old yellow stain?[/QUOTE]

If this is what NOT drinking the Kool-Aid turns you into, then someone pass me a nice big jug of the red stuff.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=mheisig;374596]Hey, get out of here with those "silly stats"!

We won't stand for someone using facts to debunk ignorance - away with you![/quote]


THAT'S HUMOR!!!!!!!!!

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;374489]YOU ARE AN IDIOT. THIS IS AN IDIOTIC STATEMENT AND BEARS NO RELATION TO THE TRUTH.

Sorry, read to many "Offiss loves Ramsey" posts and just lost it.

In Gibbs 1.0:

Gibbs had the authority to cut any player he wanted. Beathard brought'em in, but Gibbs could get rid of'em that's the way it worked. (Gibbs also, initially, wanted to get rid of Jacoby as just another undrafted lineman, but, as with Theisman, he gave him a chance and the players earned his trust).

Ramsey is, at best, a mediocre back-up who is immobile and, after multiple opportunities with multiple coaches, continues to be a turnover machine after six years in the league.[/QUOTE]


Personel attacks only BEARS out your ingnorance!

The fact is Gibbs didn't want to cut Jacoby, he wanted 100 players in camp and not 1 more, so one of the scouts showed up with him and Gibbs yelled at him telling him he only wanted 100 players in camp and not 1 more, the scout said Jacoby is over 300 pounds with a 38 inch waste, Gibbs said then cut some one else, so in fairness to Gibbs he never saw the guy play to make an evaluation it was a numbers thing at the time.

Gibbs didn't have to play players and could cut who he wanted but how was he really going to circumvent BB without free agency that is in place now? He couldn't, he had to go with the players BB gave him, which turned out to be tremendous players along with tremendous depth. BB parted ways with us because of personnel disagreements with Gibbs which I believe the Mike Olyphant for Byner trade and the Gerald Riggs trade that BB did at Gibbs behest was the last straw for BB.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;374478]Garbage time in that game? What, the Lions game? Ramsey came in at the start of the 2nd half and the score was just 6-0 Lions.

By the way, how do you feel about your best (only?) friend here being a hippie liberal?[/QUOTE]

He definitely isn't when it comes to football, don't know the man but I would be shocked if it where the case seeing his ability to read and peg the Ramsey situation, he did a great job with it.

I didn't follow the game real close I assumed they were getting a beat down when Ramsey came in, and the only plays that I saw Ramsey had guys leveling him as he set up to throw, so I really couldn't break down his performance, but I wasnt prepared to put much stock into a good or bad performance right now, it will take a little time to see how things ultimately pan out for him. How bout giving it a rest for a while and allow things to play out?

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

Let's just clear this up:

"Then there was Jacoby (6-6, 314), whom Gibbs initially thought was a defensive player. "When I came in here, signed as a free agent, I sat down to talk with coach Gibbs," said Jacoby. "It was his first year here, and he was going off for about 20 minutes how great an opportunity I would have to make the team as a defensive lineman. So as a young guy, a kid out of college, I didn't want to say anything, so I didn't. I left things at that, walked out of the room, went over to the general manager's office and signed a two-year contract. From what I heard, he was yelling at Bugel later when he found out I was an offensive lineman."

"We tried to run him out of here," said Gibbs.

[url=http://www.thehogs.net/content/story.php?id=78]Washington Redskins News - The Hogskins - 1992-01-24[/url]

And Offiss are you saying Beathard was upset that Gibbs wanted to trade Oliphant (and a pick) for Byner?

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=offiss;374715]He definitely isn't when it comes to football, don't know the man but I would be shocked if it where the case seeing his ability to read and peg the Ramsey situation, he did a great job with it.

I didn't follow the game real close I assumed they were getting a beat down when Ramsey came in, and the only plays that I saw Ramsey had guys leveling him as he set up to throw, so I really couldn't break down his performance, but I wasnt prepared to put much stock into a good or bad performance right now, it will take a little time to see how things ultimately pan out for him. How bout giving it a rest for a while and allow things to play out?[/quote]

The score was 6-0 Detroit when Ramsey came in the game early in the 2nd quarter.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;374716]Let's just clear this up:

"Then there was Jacoby (6-6, 314), whom Gibbs initially thought was a defensive player. "When I came in here, signed as a free agent, I sat down to talk with coach Gibbs," said Jacoby. "It was his first year here, and he was going off for about 20 minutes how great an opportunity I would have to make the team as a defensive lineman. So as a young guy, a kid out of college, I didn't want to say anything, so I didn't. I left things at that, walked out of the room, went over to the general manager's office and signed a two-year contract. From what I heard, he was yelling at Bugel later when he found out I was an offensive lineman."

"We tried to run him out of here," said Gibbs.

[url=http://www.thehogs.net/content/story.php?id=78]Washington Redskins News - The Hogskins - 1992-01-24[/url]

And Offiss are you saying Beathard was upset that Gibbs wanted to trade Oliphant (and a pick) for Byner?[/QUOTE]

Yes I am sure that it's true, but he almost didn't get that far initially because he was the 101 player to be brought in.

A couple of people close to BB at the time he resigned said the BB said, well Joe got his RB's, but was pissed because he really liked Olyphant, and was intending on drafting Icky Woods, but had to back off to Gibbs request, so knowing he was going to lose a public relations war with Gibbs, and couldn't fire the guy after what he had done, he decided to resign, that is what was said at the time, and I don't remember by whom, but it was a main stream statement no Internet back then. I guess it was kind of the straw that broke the camels back, and with his home of San Diego out there I guess that made it much easier to walk away.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss;374708]Personel attacks only BEARS out your ingnorance!

The fact is Gibbs didn't want to cut Jacoby, he wanted 100 players in camp and not 1 more, so one of the scouts showed up with him and Gibbs yelled at him telling him he only wanted 100 players in camp and not 1 more, the scout said Jacoby is over 300 pounds with a 38 inch waste, Gibbs said then cut some one else, so in fairness to Gibbs he never saw the guy play to make an evaluation it was a numbers thing at the time.

Gibbs didn't have to play players and could cut who he wanted but how was he really going to circumvent BB without free agency that is in place now? He couldn't, he had to go with the players BB gave him, which turned out to be tremendous players along with tremendous depth. BB parted ways with us because of personnel disagreements with Gibbs which I believe the Mike Olyphant for Byner trade and the Gerald Riggs trade that BB did at Gibbs behest was the last straw for BB.[/QUOTE]

First. I apologize for the personal attack it was over the top. Your "It's all Gibbs fault, Ramsey's really a great QB who never got a chance" attitude coupled with your abiding Brunnell hatred got to me and I vented in an inappropriate fashion.

With that said, and IMHO, you're consistent ragging on Gibbs b/c of his handling of Ramsey is simply wrong headed and ignores Ramsey's inability to win a starting job anywhere else in this QB starved league. Your refusal to admit that Ramsey's lack of success is his own fault and continued assertion that it is all Gibbs'/Spurrier's fault is particularly annoying. Ramsey has had ample opportunities to "seize the day" and has failed to do so. I have always liked the guy, but it is seems pretty clear that the NFL's coaches and GM's simply don't believe he can be a starter in this league.

Second, to imply or intimate that Gibbs drove off Beathard ignores the nature of the relationship, is disengenous and fails to look at the complete "Beathard" picture. Bobby was a California boy and never thought of the east coast as home. In addition, I think it's been pretty well documented that Gibbs and BB had a stressful but productive partnership. Two very talented men whose different approaches and/or duties led to some heated disagreements. In even the best of circumstances, this creates a difficult work enviroment and, coupled with his desire to live on the west coast, BB moved on. Had Gibbs been the cali boy and not Beathard, it would probably been Gibbs who had left first.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

Maybe it's because I'm a big fan of EB, but I think we ended up better off with him than with Oliphant and Ickey

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

Too often, people pretend that Beathard never made a bad decision. He made a lot of them. Nobody bats 1.000 when it comes to personell.

As for Ramsey - never was, never will be, was never going to be a good QB in this league. The only people that will argue otherwise at this point are him, his wife, his agent, his banker, his mom, his dad, his pastor, his high school coach, and Offiss. I've never seen such devotion in a droid before.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

You have to wonder though how much of Offiss' defense of Ramsey is genuine support of Ramsey and how much is refusal to just let an issue go and say "Hey, you know what maybe I was wrong. Maybe he's not that great. Maybe he should bare some responsibility for his inability to succeed in the NFL"

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;374778]Too often, people pretend that Beathard never made a bad decision. He made a lot of them. Nobody bats 1.000 when it comes to personell.

As for Ramsey - never was, never will be, was never going to be a good QB in this league. The only people that will argue otherwise at this point are him, his wife, his agent, his banker, his mom, his dad, his pastor, his high school coach, and Offiss. I've never seen such devotion in a droid before.[/QUOTE]

Well posted. When so called Redskins fans start disputing our glorious history, something is wrong.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;374783]You have to wonder though how much of Offiss' defense of Ramsey is genuine support of Ramsey and how much is refusal to just let an issue go and say "Hey, you know what maybe I was wrong. Maybe he's not that great. Maybe he should bare some responsibility for his inability to succeed in the NFL"[/QUOTE]

Come ooonnnn SS. When does Offiss ever admit he's wrong with anything?

Re: Decent Job Ramsey...And Now He Has Taylor Jacobs!
 

I've edited the thread title because I wanted to provide some additional information but didn't want to give Ramsey the benefit of another thread.

This is too good to be true it seems. We may finally see that highly anticipated Ramsey to Jacobs TD connection that's been four years in the making.


[url=http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/11/06/clark-gordon-and-cox-released/]Mason's Morsels » Blog Archive » Clark, Gordon and Cox Released[/url]

[quote]The Broncos filled the roster vacancies by signing wide receiver Taylor Jacobs, a former No. 2 pick of the Washington Redskins in 2003,[/quote]

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=70Chip;374778][B]Too often, people pretend that Beathard never made a bad decision. He made a lot of them. Nobody bats 1.000 when it comes to personell. [/B]

As for Ramsey - never was, never will be, was never going to be a good QB in this league. The only people that will argue otherwise at this point are him, his wife, his agent, his banker, his mom, his dad, his pastor, his high school coach, and Offiss. I've never seen such devotion in a droid before.[/quote]


Two words: Ryan Leaf. What a train wreck he was. Sorry that BB had to end his career like that, I read somewhere that he is not in the hall of fame for that decision, and that is truly a shame. (it was Polian from the colts that said it).

Re: Decent Job Ramsey...And Now He Has Taylor Jacobs!
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;374792]I've edited the thread title because I wanted to provide some additional information but didn't want to give Ramsey the benefit of another thread.

This is too good to be true it seems. We may finally see that highly anticipated Ramsey to Jacobs TD connection that's been four years in the making.


[url=http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/11/06/clark-gordon-and-cox-released/]Mason's Morsels » Blog Archive » Clark, Gordon and Cox Released[/url][/QUOTE]

Maybe that's just the combination that Ramsey has been looking for. :cheeky-sm

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42;374808]Two words: Ryan Leaf. What a train wreck he was. Sorry that BB had to end his career like that, I read somewhere that he is not in the hall of fame for that decision, and that is truly a shame. (it was Polian from the colts that said it).[/QUOTE]

Beathard made a lot of terrible decisions, apart from trading the house for Ryan Leaf. Still he should be in the Hall of Fame. What good GM hasn't made bad decisions (Ron Wolf?)? Beathard made plenty of good decisions, but more importantly had the balls to take risks and the longevity to have a body of work that encompassed both great and awful moves. You can't discrdit his impact on the Redskins's success...but you also shouldn't give him all the credit

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=Mattyk72;374498]Sorry, wrong.

Ramsey was 8-12 as a starter for a winning % of .400. His QB rating here was 74.1.

Brunell was 16-19 including the playoffs for a winning % of .457. His QB rating here is 78.7.

Campbell is 7-8 for a winning % of .466. His QB rating is 75.6.

Nobody [B]hates[/B] Ramsey, we just think he's nothing special.[/quote]

Ramsey threw for 5669 yards in the equivalent of 22 games. He did it for a team that didn't assign enough pass blockers as policy and had bad receivers, the best being Rod Gardner, who couldn't catch the ball and was nicknamed 50-50.

Brunell had 5021 yards in the equivalent of 33 games and was throwing to Cooley and Moss (when Moss was a top threat) and the OL was tough.

Campbell has thrown for 2817 in 15 games, far off Ramsey's pace, inspite of being blessed with better receivers (at least last year.)

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=70Chip;374778]Too often, people pretend that Beathard never made a bad decision. He made a lot of them. Nobody bats 1.000 when it comes to personell.

As for Ramsey - never was, never will be, was never going to be a good QB in this league. The only people that will argue otherwise at this point are him, his wife, his agent, his banker, his mom, his dad, his pastor, his high school coach, and Offiss. I've never seen such devotion in a droid before.[/quote]

Haha....you left out his kids, oops he couldn't possible have a child. But how but his sister, brother, greasey granny, cousins, uncles, aunts and all the rest.........you know the entire fan club?

Nevermind, close enough 70. lol

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;374821]Ramsey threw for 5669 yards in the equivalent of 22 games. He did it for a team that didn't assign enough pass blockers as policy and had bad receivers, the best being Rod Gardner, who couldn't catch the ball and was nicknamed 50-50.

Brunell had 5021 yards in the equivalent of 33 games and was throwing to Cooley and Moss (when Moss was a top threat) and the OL was tough.

Campbell has thrown for 2817 in 15 games, far off Ramsey's pace, inspite of being blessed with better receivers (at least last year.)[/QUOTE]

What do you mean "the equivalent of" Do you just mean 22 games?

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=Crazyhorse1;374821]Ramsey threw for 5669 yards in the equivalent of 22 games. He did it for a team that didn't assign enough pass blockers as policy and had bad receivers, the best being Rod Gardner, who couldn't catch the ball and was nicknamed 50-50.

Brunell had 5021 yards in the equivalent of 33 games and was throwing to Cooley and Moss (when Moss was a top threat) and the OL was tough.

Campbell has thrown for 2817 in 15 games, far off Ramsey's pace, inspite of being blessed with better receivers (at least last year.)[/quote]But that doesn't really argue Matty's point that if you had to rate them, solely on W/L and QB rating on what they had done, it breaks down like Brunell, Campbell, and then Ramsey.

Then you gave different objective evidence that is far more misleading than QB rating and W/L combined. Yards/G doesn't really tell us anything without more information, which because it works against your argument, you can't really give here.

You also completely ignored the presence of Laverneus Coles, and oversimplified the rest of the argument.

Advantage, Matty.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey...And Now He Has Taylor Jacobs!
 

What the hell is wrong with people around here?

Re: Decent Job Ramsey...And Now He Has Taylor Jacobs!
 

For the record, what Ramsey did as a Redskin and what Campbell has done so far are pretty similar.

There is a lot of evidence though to suggest that Campbell's still got a big breakout in front of him, where as Ramsey is already nearing his prime. If you don't dispute this point, you can't make a sane argument for Ramsey>Campbell.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey...And Now He Has Taylor Jacobs!
 

good points crazyhorse. But we have to move on and hope that JC can get some freedom from Gibbs so he can produce. Its time to take the training wheels off JC.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey...And Now He Has Taylor Jacobs!
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;374827][B]For the record, what Ramsey did as a Redskin and what Campbell has done so far are pretty similar.[/B]

There is a lot of evidence though to suggest that Campbell's still got a big breakout in front of him, where as Ramsey is already nearing his prime. If you don't dispute this point, you can't make a sane argument for Ramsey>Campbell.[/QUOTE]

Through half his first full season, Campbell has lead our team to a winning record....something Ramsey couldn't do for us AND is the bottom line for us. I just hope we're still saying this at the end of the season.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey...And Now He Has Taylor Jacobs!
 

Campbell has better talent then Ramsey ever had here. Lets just stay on the JC bandwagon and hope gibbs give JC the chance to shine.