Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

The real issue is that Lloyd is "hated" because he represents why the Skins haven't done anything of substance since Danny has been around.
He is a "bust" and that pisses us off.

Most skins fans have problems with how we carry so much dead cap money and how we waste so many draft picks.....hell....Lloyd isn't alone...he's just the only bust currently on the team. There always seems to be one...Last year the hate was very spread out with Arch, ARE, Duckett and Andre Carter taking heat.

If we hadn't given away big bucks and draft picks for him, we wouldn't be so pissed.
So, though people make some pretty nasty comments about him personally....it aint really personal....its about frustration with the front office.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

[quote=skinsnut;374521]The real issue is that Lloyd is "hated" because he represents why the Skins haven't done anything of substance since Danny has been around.
He is a "bust" and that pisses us off.

Most skins fans have problems with how we carry so much dead cap money and how we waste so many draft picks.....hell....Lloyd isn't alone...he's just the only bust currently on the team. There always seems to be one...Last year the hate was very spread out with Arch, ARE, Duckett and Andre Carter taking heat.

If we hadn't given away big bucks and draft picks for him, we wouldn't be so pissed.
So, though people make some pretty nasty comments about him personally....it aint really personal....its about frustration with the front office.[/quote]

While you're right, if it were the case that his deal didn't lock him into being here, he would be cut by now. So yes, it is frustration w/the front office, but also w/Loyd, who has had more than enough chances to prove his worth.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

[quote=Daseal;374493]JoeRedskin: I bet if you look at targeted, Yoder has more than Lloyd. Golston has been a beast since his rookie year and getting a lot of play time.

Freddy, I've read the article by JLC. Does Lloyd have problems, most definitely. However, when it comes to game day it seems like he's there, upbeat, and helpful. I have seen lloyd put in some very solid blocks, etc.

Could Lloyd be a total bust, absolutely. I just don't feel he's had a chance to be used like he should be here in DC. I have a feeling he'll be another player that leaves DC and kinda explodes into at least a solid player on a team, if not a very good #2. He has his down side, definitely. His personal stuff is a problem.

I don't want to say I'm completely going to bat for this guy, because I don't know him behind the scenes. Everything coming out of DC media wise seems horribly skewed to me. Especially with Gibbs in office, the double talk is at an alltime high (this isn't a Gibbs bash, it's the truth. He says a lot and nothing at the same time. So does his team.) I just feel that we should give him a chance, it's frustrating never getting a look in the offense, does he blow up sometimes, probably, but I bet the guy just wants to win.[/quote]

Maybe he will go on somewhere else & play well. TO & Moss both have, but only after they burned bridges behind them. It totally sucks for a team like Philly that they took a chance on TO & he basically did everything he could to screw them & now plays against them twice a year and has suddenly found it possible to be a decent teamate. He's a decent teamate because he realizes how much he has to lose now.

Even if Loyd does this to us, I don't think many fans or players even will say, "damn, we should've kept him." Just like nobody in Philly was going to say, yeah, we should keep TO even though he publicly insults the qb & complains to the press every time he doesn't get his way.

We're all going on second & third hand sources here, but I don't see how so many people can speak the same things about the guy and not at least be partially correct. After all, we're not talking about someone whose job is that complex to evaluate. Loyd is not being criticized because he's a philosopher trying to convince us of an unpopular theory, he's a damn football player. Football players have and always will be evaluated in part on their attitude towards the team. His sucks.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

Bottom line is that we are not a passing team, but we have a lot of quality WRs on our team. There are not enough balls to go around. I wish, Moss and Randle El and McCardell and Thrash were more productive.
But Campbell only completed 12 pass Sunday and most of those went to Cooley. How is the world can any of our receivers get going when they only get looked at 4 or 5 times a game. I know the Skins want to run the ball, but Campbell can't get in a groove if he only gets to pass the ball about 4 or 5 times a series. And That's assuming we get some 1st downs! Lloyd can't get in the game above McCardell who doesn't get any looks as it is on gameday!

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

Yes Lloyd deserves every bit of hate. He has received an enormous amount of money and has done nothing to earn it.

The Skins front office also deserves a lot of hate for this one. Both Gibbs and Cerrato. Gibbs for thinking he could change this guy and Cerrato for once again going back to his old stomping grounds of the 49'ers. I think Cerrato still believes it's 1989 and the 49'ers are defending SB champs and they have great players. We keep getting burned with 49er problems like Lloyd and who can forget Stubblefield (Stubbletoe) another bust from SF.

We need a GM and that's the bottom line.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

[QUOTE=djdunick;374544]Yes Lloyd deserves every bit of hate. He has received an enormous amount of money and has done nothing to earn it.

The Skins front office also deserves a lot of hate for this one. Both Gibbs and Cerrato. Gibbs for thinking he could change this guy and Cerrato for once again going back to his old stomping grounds of the 49'ers. I think Cerrato still believes it's 1989 and the 49'ers are defending SB champs and they have great players. We keep getting burned with 49er problems like Lloyd and who can forget Stubblefield (Stubbletoe) another bust from SF.

We need a GM and that's the bottom line.[/QUOTE]

I kinda like Andre Carter though

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

I can't believe there's another thread on the pros/cons of Brandon Lloyd.

I can't believe I just contributed to another thread on Brandon Lloyd...

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

I just hope that Gibbs gave Lloyd an ultimatum this time - start behaving like a pro or your career here (and probably elsewhere) will be in jeopardy. The shame of it is that Lloyd may have physical gifts greater than any of our other WRs. He is basically the Jeff George of wide receivers.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

Skinsnut,

Okay so there was one diamond in the rough as Carter has improved this season but still he isn't worth all the money we're paying him but at least he seems to have devloped into a solid end. Not spectacular but solid.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;374465]I suppose Deion Branch and David Givens not panning out is Gibbs' and Campbell's fault too right? Nothing to do with the hall of fame quarterback they have up there.

If you think Lloyd would last 10 minutes on the Colts or Pats you are out of your mind. If it wasn't for that boondoggle of a signing bonus he would have been cut from this team last year.[/QUOTE]

Well you kind of answered it for me, if it's not Gibbs fault then who? Gibbs is in charge of surrounding his WR's with quality players who can compliment their talents not hold them back. I saw and interview with S. Moss you could see he's fit to be tied, he's basically saying there is nothing they can do if they are not thrown the ball.

It's obvious you don't know a whole lot about the game, tell me how do you come to the conclusion that Branch and Givens were products of their QB, which is saying the QB made the WR's, and say Lloyd wouldn't obtain the same success if he had HOF QB's throwing him the ball? Wow your all over the place!:pi_lightb


Whats your opinion on the fact that none of our WR's have caught a TD half way through the season? I guess all of our WR's are garbage even though Moss and EL are proven game breakers. Who's fault is that, Lloyds?

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

All other things aside, Lloyd isn't going to be a Redskin at the beginning of next year so i really don't care. Unless the coaches are bipolar he must deserve what he's getting. So. Very. Tired.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

For any of you that say that the qb is the one to blame and that Brandon Llyod gets open on a regular basis when in the game, please read the following qoute from Santana Moss on Jason Campbell...

[B]"It's going to come," Santana Moss said. "When a pass is covered, you don't throw it. Jason doesn't throw at guys that are covered."[/B]

So with that coming from an actually WR on the field lets stop with the defensive argument that Jason Campbell has not been able to find Brandon Llyod. Basically what Moss is saying is that Campbell is not going to just throw it up there and let his receivers win a jump ball. Recievers in this system are going to have run their routes to precision and Campbell will get the ball to them accordingly if they are open. Unfortunately this is not Brandon Llyod's forte and will seal his fate this offseason.

[URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071106/SPORTS01/111060086/1005/SPORTS&template=nextpage"]In OK shape so far*-*-*The Washington Times, America's Newspaper[/URL]

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

Some would argue that you should throw it even if the receiver is covered. Let the receiver make a play, or at least try to force a defensive pass interference.

Usually you only do that though if you have Moss...Randy Moss.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

I think if you can throw it to a spot where only the receiver can make the play, it is certainly preferable to taking a sack. I'd like him to take more of these [I]calculated[/I] risks. The sideline doesn't play for the other team, so if you aren't throwing over the middle, you can let it fly a little more. He seems to only throw to guys that have big seperation which leads to Brunellism (holding the ball too long).

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

I think it's ok to bring along JC slowly--but even if he's "hand-cuffed" he still should hit the things they're asking him to. If he does, they'll get more confidence in calling those plays.

But this week, I think we basically sacrificed balance in the pass game to establish CP and the run. That's important--we need to be able to run. But it should set up more stuff for JC. I hope they attend to that more this week, as last week was all about the run in practice, and it paid off. NOW GET THAT BALANCE!

As for Lloyd, he's got to get on the same page as everyone else--he's not good enough to demand separate treatment, a la Riggins or Manley.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

[QUOTE=offiss;374730]Well you kind of answered it for me, if it's not Gibbs fault then who? Gibbs is in charge of surrounding his WR's with quality players who can compliment their talents not hold them back. I saw and interview with S. Moss you could see he's fit to be tied, he's basically saying there is nothing they can do if they are not thrown the ball.

[B]It's obvious you don't know a whole lot about the game, tell me how do you come to the conclusion that Branch and Givens were products of their QB, which is saying the QB made the WR's, and say Lloyd wouldn't obtain the same success if he had HOF QB's throwing him the ball? Wow your all over the place!:pi_lightb[/B]

Whats your opinion on the fact that none of our WR's have caught a TD half way through the season? I guess all of our WR's are garbage even though Moss and EL are proven game breakers. Who's fault is that, Lloyds?[/QUOTE]


Well it's obvious why everybody hates you. You are rude and your posts make no sense. I use my own method called statistical analysis to come to my conclusions. One, I look at the stats Branch and Givens posted in the Pats system. Two, I compare this to their stats after leaving. My conclusion was that their stats after leaving were worse - based on the numbers being lower - and that therefore it isn't necessarily Gibbs' fault that Patton underperformed in our system as well. Brady makes people look better than they actually are. You argued that Patton's failures here are evidence that Lloyd could succeed as well. I argued that Patriots receivers have typically fared worse after leaving that system, and that we can't glean anything about Lloyd based on Patton's numbers. Disagree if you will, but is it necessary to question my football knowledge?

The second point I was making was that Lloyd isn't the type of player who would make it through training camp on either team's roster for multiple reasons. Yes he would benefit from having Brady throw him the ball, as would any receiver, but he would never be awarded that opportunity because of his attitude and lack of discipline. Gibbs perhaps should be criticized for acquiring him, but if you read the title of this thread and the other posts you will see that this isn't one of the million threads arguing that we need a GM, it's questioning why fans are so hard on Lloyd.

Let's make a final deal. I will study football hard and try to get to your level of knowledge, and you can work on your English language skills. I am an English teacher by trade, and my foreign students have never uttered anything as nonsensical as "I saw and interview with S. Moss you could see he's fit to be tied." PM me and I can recommend some great ESL textbooks for you. With hard work you can improve too! SEE YOU!

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

should have been cut by now. He done nothing to deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;374799]Well it's obvious why everybody hates you. You are rude and your posts make no sense. I use my own method called statistical analysis to come to my conclusions. One, I look at the stats Branch and Givens posted in the Pats system. Two, I compare this to their stats after leaving. My conclusion was that their stats after leaving were worse - based on the numbers being lower - and that therefore it isn't necessarily Gibbs' fault that Patton underperformed in our system as well. Brady makes people look better than they actually are. You argued that Patton's failures here are evidence that Lloyd could succeed as well. I argued that Patriots receivers have typically fared worse after leaving that system, and that we can't glean anything about Lloyd based on Patton's numbers. Disagree if you will, but is it necessary to question my football knowledge?

The second point I was making was that Lloyd isn't the type of player who would make it through training camp on either team's roster for multiple reasons. Yes he would benefit from having Brady throw him the ball, as would any receiver, but he would never be awarded that opportunity because of his attitude and lack of discipline. Gibbs perhaps should be criticized for acquiring him, but if you read the title of this thread and the other posts you will see that this isn't one of the million threads arguing that we need a GM, it's questioning why fans are so hard on Lloyd.

Let's make a final deal. I will study football hard and try to get to your level of knowledge, and you can work on your English language skills. I am an English teacher by trade, and my foreign students have never uttered anything as nonsensical as "I saw and interview with S. Moss you could see he's fit to be tied." PM me and I can recommend some great ESL textbooks for you. With hard work you can improve too! SEE YOU![/QUOTE]


Well you can't understand what you are watching I wouldn't expect you to understand what you are hearing either.

Yup you know Lloyd would never make it with either of those teams because of attitude and work ethic? Even though he worked his tail off in the off season, perhaps he's peeved because he did work his tail off for nothing?

Lets see what players with attitudes that would never make it with these teams? Lets just through Randy Moss out there for starters, let me know how he's making out this season so far? Corey Dillon had an attitude with the Bengals I think he worked out OK for the Pats, how about a know body you know like Wes Welker, who you ask? Well we were saying who before he arrived on a real team, now every one knows who he is don't they? Yup it's all Lloyds fault Gibbs has no fault in the failured offense that is ours?

You teach foreign students? That may be the problem your probably watching soccer on Sunday?

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

Brandon Lloyd "worked his tail off" getting bigger in the offseason, he wasn't working with any teammates (other than Springs), especially Campbell to improve his knowledge of the offense. And for most of training camp, wasn't he spending it on the sidelines with shin splints?

Actually, I must say I'm kind of surprised Offiss hasn't thrown the "steroids accusation" Lloyd's way. Didn't he use it on Portis when he bulked up?

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;374934]Brandon Lloyd "worked his tail off" getting bigger in the offseason, he wasn't working with any teammates (other than Springs), especially Campbell to improve his knowledge of the offense. And for most of training camp, wasn't he spending it on the sidelines with shin splints?

Actually, I must say I'm kind of surprised Offiss hasn't thrown the "steroids accusation" Lloyd's way. Didn't he use it on Portis when he bulked up?[/QUOTE]

You know Lloyd sure looked good physically coming in, it usually means exactly that, but for what ever reason I didn't really give him much thought, could be?

Physically he worked, your probably right on the football end though.

On the Portis note I missed a lot of the game Sunday saw bits and pieces and the highlights, it looked to me like Portis slimmed down did anyone else notice that as well?

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

[QUOTE=offiss;375081]You know Lloyd sure looked good physically coming in, it usually means exactly that, but for what ever reason I didn't really give him much thought, could be?

Physically he worked, your probably right on the football end though.

[B]On the Portis note I missed a lot of the game Sunday saw bits and pieces and the highlights, it looked to me like Portis slimmed down did anyone else notice that as well?[/B][/QUOTE]

Portis' weight seems to fluctuate alot inbetween seasons...

In 2004 he came in slim, but gained some for the 2005 season..
2006 he was noticibly heavier (unless he was wearing different pads) and now he seem somewhere in between his 2004/2005 status.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

Llyod is a waste of space!!!!!!!! I mean come on, at least Andre Reed when he was here caught a TD pass, this schmuck can't hall in a pass over 10 yards and that is if he cathces one or has one thrown to him. The guy is a colossal bust, just as bad as when Spurrier drafted Tyler Jacobs. Differences of opinion are one thing guys, but stats don't lie. Llyod is a waste of a roster space. Draft a WR next year and see if you can trade him, although he has been so nonexistent production wise nobody but the most desperate teams will want him. Getting Lloyd was a very good move at the time, but the guy just hasn't panned out at all and is costing us a lot of $$$$$. That being said, I do not understand why we haven't seen more of Caldwell or McCardell. McCardell came in the one game and caught both balls to him. The WR drama makes no sense to me and is a big source of why I am not sure Gibbs is going to get the job done.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

[QUOTE=offiss;375081]You know Lloyd sure looked good physically coming in, it usually means exactly that, but for what ever reason I didn't really give him much thought, could be?

Physically he worked, your probably right on the football end though.

On the Portis note I missed a lot of the game Sunday saw bits and pieces and the highlights, it looked to me like Portis slimmed down did anyone else notice that as well?[/QUOTE]

offiss, even you have to admit that it's hilarious that you accused me (falsely) of not watching the games and then admitted 2 POSTS LATER that you didn't even watch the whole game this week.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

I think CP dropped the extra weight a while ago. He tried bulking up for one season, it didn't work out, and he's back down to his typical weight. I remember when Saunders first came here CP commented that he wanted to get back to being a speed back.

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

We can trade or dump him in February and save the roster bonus due him in March
With a new quarterback and the money that he and Moss make you would think they would have wanted to work on timing like Cooley and Campbell did
[ala Jerry Rice]


[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;374504]I guess I think he had ample opportunities last year but that, as I said before, he hasn't earned the trust of the guys throwing him the ball. It seems pretty well documented that he gives up on routes he doesn't like. If that's the case, what QB is going to be able to count on him. If the QB doesn't look for you b/c he can't trust you, then you could be standing alone in the endzone and you just won't be seen.

Lloyd has to earn both the coaches and the QB's trust to get an opportunity, he clearly hasn't done that.[/QUOTE]

Re: Does Brandon Lloyd REALLY deserve all this hate?
 

face it the guy cant play. wasnt any good in SF and the skins blew it by signing him to a huge contract and giving up a 3rd and a 4th rounder