Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;385621]I'm a white guy so please accept the following question is intended without malice: What is it with that segment of the black community that idealizes the thug lifestyle? (I know that there are segments of all races that idolize it but you know what I mean) I just don't get it. What's the appeal? I've had friends/coworkers who just absolutely let every opportunity to improve themselves pass by because that would be "selling out." For the life of me I dont' get it. It's disgusting to me but I can only imagine it must be truly exhasperating to be black and to see this from your own people in such large quantities. How do you protect your kids from these view points? If these questions/views offend anyone, I apologize, they're honestly just questions, not indictments of anyone's background.[/quote]

I'm black and live near DC. What you said doesn't offend me. Here is where that thug shit comes from. The people in Southeast DC are out of control. Murders every single day. Black on black crime. It makes me sick. Here is where it starts. Alot of young poor black women get knocked up at an early age and have a kid, two or three. They ( and the father) don't have a decent job or a good enough job to provide for themselves so they have to live in low income areas. The reality is these women should not be having babies. They can't give them a good life but they seem to think having kids is like having a cat or something. So they live in low income areas and the rest is history. That is a big reason why people live in the ghetto. Most of the women living in the ghetto have babies. That is the root of the problem. If these people would stop having babies at 18 then some of this shit would go away. So it just trickles down year after year after year.

Alot of professional athletes come from this type of backround. Michael Vick, Donald Driver, Gilbert Areanas, Byron Leftwich, Labron James, Carmelo Anthony, Pacman Jones, Allen Iverson. I could go on and on. Some make it and leave behind where they came from. Some don't like Vick and Jones and it has cost them. It almost cost Iverson. I have family near Newport News and from everything I've heard Iverson's mother is a hood rat herself. She had him at like 17? No one should be having babies at that age. But that is where it all starts.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

I thought Cris Carter made a great point on Inside the NFL last night. He basically said that players can't bring the ghetto to the NFL and they have to cut ties to their prior lives or that's when tragedies like this happen.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee;385626]I'm a white guy too, but I think the music is a reflection of the culture, not the other way around. There existed a culture of despair in many neighborhoods before hip-hop told of it. Any effect that music has on behavior is secondary to the root causes. Rich kids who embrace hip-hop largely aren't turning to violence - poor kids are. My fear is that, though glorifying death needs to stop, we are putting the cart before the horse if we think that getting rid of violent music will get rid of violence.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree with you on that. You'd think this would be as simple as education but it's clearly not. You've got this overwhelmingly negative quantity that truly counteract any positive steps individuals make. But what is the answer? You can't just go around arresting everyone that espouses a certain viewpoint. This isn't 1940's Germany. But at the same time, every citizen in this country has a constitutionally guaranteed right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. If there is a segment of the population that is actively preventing that "pursuit" then they deserve to be stopped with all necessary force and resources.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=pg86;385516]One more thing damnit.


IF music can talk to you and it glorifies so much murder (BTW I listen to rock not rap)

Why not blame it when and if they do catch the person that did this. Then you can go and dig up Tupac or Biggie, or whoever it is that is alive today saying shoot this die fucker die and charge them with murder?

Im sorry but when I hear crap like that I scream get real and Bullshit!.

Ok I'll admit I listen to alot of emo...so if some kid cut his wrists because Hawthorne Heights said cut my writs and black my eyes, can we blame them for his self destructive behavior? Think about it if you still don't get where Im getting at here Im saying we can't blame a musical artist or a genre of music for peoples Deaths. Humanity is simply that cruel and they seek to hurt one another![/quote]

The cultural phenomena that drives our kids to say "F... you" instead of "Ma'am" and "Sir" is also driving our children to death in the streets. It may be now that the effects are felt more in the black community than in the white community, but sociopathic meanness is infecting the communities of people in the U.S.A. of all races. There's a general lack of respect for human beings and human life.

It doesn't help that the country has descended again to the death penalty, which makes taking a life seem acceptable behavior, or that a moron has lead us into a murderous and elective war complete with cluster bombs and torture, previously thought unthinkable; or that the justice system is a sham; or that our politicians are utterly corrupt and/or shameless liars; or that religious leaders are sexual perverts.

Rolle says that Taylor was afraid in Miami on an on-going basis and that the murder was connected to jealousy of Taylor and anger against him because he was stepping away socially from former unsavory friends.

I don't know, of course, but that's the most likely senario to me. If I were a police investigator, that's the first possibility I would pursue.

As for the larger question, I don't know exactly what to do to turn back this avalanche of meanness coming at us. I do think that the current amoral and huckster character of our traditional institutions such as church and state and schools and the Bill of Rights (as well as equal rights) are a big part of our children's loss of respect for us and that's a big part of why they're no longer saying Ma'am and Sir.

They're blaming us for the mess we've made. And we have. We didn't kill Sean Taylor, but we created the monsters who did.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Not to be rude but this is getting hijacked. If we start in on the politics then we'll get WAY off topic.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=SouperMeister;385497]Frankly, it's high time for self-examination and social commentary when a young man like Taylor is snuffed out just when he's getting his life together. If you don't believe that hip hop culture glorifies murder, and de-sensitives black youth to violence, then you're not paying attention. I think that Whitlock is saying that if young black men were killed with today's regularity by the original KKK, there would be moral outrage. You don't sense outrage to the carnage against black men today. Instead, there's a "don't snitch" mentality, again perpetuated by hip hop culture that rationalizes self-genocide. Whitlock and others like Bill Cosby who have the courage to speak up on this issue are spot on.[/quote]

Jason Whitlock cannot speak out against an entire culture, which (for those that do not know) is what hip hop is - bad, good, and indifferent.

It's the same as a non-sports or non-football fan speaking out against the issues caused by the football culture... which among other things also glorifies and promotes violence.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

... and i'm not making a case against football culture; my point is that all cultures have a good and bad side - and you have to take the good with the bad. And I also understand that you have to address the social issues, but who is providing solutions or options? You can't get rid of a whole culture, which I think everybody thinks is the answer. So what do you do? Who has the answers? I haven't seen any yet.

And if you question that hip hop is not a culture, just look around.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;385621]I'm a white guy so please accept the following question is intended without malice: What is it with that segment of the black community that idealizes the thug lifestyle? (I know that there are segments of all races that idolize it but you know what I mean) I just don't get it. What's the appeal? I've had friends/coworkers who just absolutely let every opportunity to improve themselves pass by because that would be "selling out." For the life of me I dont' get it. It's disgusting to me but I can only imagine it must be truly exhasperating to be black and to see this from your own people in such large quantities. How do you protect your kids from these view points? If these questions/views offend anyone, I apologize, they're honestly just questions, not indictments of anyone's background.[/QUOTE]

Bleed, you bring up some very, very good points. I've been struggling to come up with a response for you, but I just can't.

There is no real "one" answer, because the problem comes from so many different sources. It is exasperating, especially because it is so senseless and pointless.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Technically, i think Hip Hop would best be defined as a sub-culture, but I get what you're saying. But I look back to Brudlee's earlier comment in this thread. There wouldn't be today's version of Hip Hop if there were not a pre-existing hopelessness and lack of positive leadership in the urban community.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=memphisskin;385546]The Black KKK, I didn't take that to be hip hop, but rather a reference to the Black on Black crime that has become rampant in America, and without uproar there is acceptance.[/quote]

I think he is mainly attacking hip hop in this article:
[I]You're damn straight I blame hip hop for playing a role in the genocide of American black men. When your leading causes of death and dysfunction are murder, ignorance and incarceration, there's no reason to give a free pass to a culture that celebrates murder, ignorance and incarceration. [/I]

[I]Of course there are other catalysts, but until we recapture the minds of black youth, convince them that it's not OK to "super man dat ho" and end any and every dispute by "cocking on your bitch," nothing will change. [/I][I]Does a Soulja Boy want an education?"[/I]

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;385685]I think he is mainly attacking hip hop in this article:
[I]You're damn straight I blame hip hop for playing a role in the genocide of American black men. When your leading causes of death and dysfunction are murder, ignorance and incarceration, there's no reason to give a free pass to a culture that celebrates murder, ignorance and incarceration. [/I]

[I]Of course there are other catalysts, but until we recapture the minds of black youth, convince them that it's not OK to "super man dat ho" and end any and every dispute by "cocking on your bitch," nothing will change. [/I][I]Does a Soulja Boy want an education?"[/I][/QUOTE]

Warriorzpath, do you take an attack on hip hop personally? I am just curious. If so, what about the culture appeals to you?

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;385675]Technically, i think Hip Hop would best be defined as a sub-culture, but I get what you're saying. But I look back to Brudlee's earlier comment in this thread. There wouldn't be today's version of Hip Hop if there were not a pre-existing hopelessness and lack of positive leadership in the urban community.[/quote]

First off, I respectfully disagree with your statement that hip hop is [I]only[/I] a subculture. And there may be issues to be addressed in hip hop, but how do we address them?

You can list all of the causes of hip hop's negatives and the results of its influence, but cannot list one viable solution?

How about, first of all, trying to get with the hip hop leaders and talking to them. I hear that Sean Combs and Russell Simmons is feeling out the political arena. What about something like that ?

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;385689]Warriorzpath, do you take an attack on hip hop personally? I am just curious. If so, what about the culture appeals to you?[/quote]

Yes, a big part of my life has and is influenced by hip hop. The number one thing that hip hop represents, and strongly connect with, is Perseverance. This country's culture and the country itself has been built by the underdogs who strived and flourished with the odds stacked against them. That's what hip hop is to me. Just look at my name.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Those that think that murder and violence are the poster themes of hip hop, just think twice. That's only what the salesmen sell to you and that's how you get interested. If you really want to know what hip hop is about - dig deeper. But only if you want to- if you don't, I can't help you. It's like someone thinking that Michael Vick and Pacman Jones are the role models and are the current representatives of the NFL.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;385693]First off, I respectfully disagree with your statement that hip hop is [I]only[/I] a subculture. And there may be issues to be addressed in hip hop, but how do we address them?

You can list all of the causes of hip hop's negatives and the results of its influence, but cannot list one viable solution?

How about, first of all, trying to get with the hip hop leaders and talking to them. I hear that Sean Combs and Russell Simmons is feeling out the political arena. What about something like that ?[/QUOTE]

I'd have no problem at all with any individual trying their hand at politics regardless of their views. Everyone should have the chance to be heard. A good idea can come from everywhere. HOWEVER- I do not believe that an individual can make their fortune off of misfortune and still be a driving force for good. It just sends the wrong message. When I say makes a fortune off of misfortune I'm referring to glamorizing violence and cruelty to make a buck. Make no mistake, it is being glamorized.

As for a viable solution, if I had all the answers I'd be giving them to you. But I will say this. I think the answer involves a lot of education. I think it involves alot of individuals in these communities stepping up and saying that they will not accept a culture of violence for their children. I believe it takes consumers being responsible about where they put their money. Basically, it takes dedication to improvement.

Edit- I just read your latest post. IF violence is not a key element in hip hop, if it is only what the salesmen sell, then don't you think it is important that the positive forces in hip hop start getting the pub that all of the thugs are currently receiving? Personally, I am not a fan of rap music because of the message, not the delivery. I don't envy those in economically difficult situations, nor those in prison, nor those making money selling drugs. That may be only the vocal minority in the hip hop community espousing those views but as a very casual observer, that is what I am hearing.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;385703]I'd have no problem at all with any individual trying their hand at politics regardless of their views. Everyone should have the chance to be heard. A good idea can come from everywhere. HOWEVER- I do not believe that an individual can make their fortune off of misfortune and still be a driving force for good. It just sends the wrong message. When I say makes a fortune off of misfortune I'm referring to glamorizing violence and cruelty to make a buck. Make no mistake, it is being glamorized.

As for a viable solution, if I had all the answers I'd be giving them to you. But I will say this. I think the answer involves a lot of education. I think it involves alot of individuals in these communities stepping up and saying that they will not accept a culture of violence for their children. I believe it takes consumers being responsible about where they put their money. Basically, it takes dedication to improvement.[/quote]

I don't know if you were able to read my last couple of posts, but those would be my reply to this.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;385708]I don't know if you were able to read my last couple of posts, but those would be my reply to this.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I just edited my post to reply to that, we were playing the posting equivalent of phone tag.

Honestly, what you talk about hip hop representing is something I think anyone with a somewhat open mind can respect. I just think that all of those positive messages are hidden behind a layer of filth. And that's a shame.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Hip hop is flexible enough--and powerful enough--to glorify things other than thugs, gangstas and ho's. Many people have mentioned Public Enemy--you can produce great music with a positive and intelligent message and not be a sell-out. (I certainly don't agree with everything PE preached, but they showed it could be done.)

On perseverance: It depends on what one is persevering for. If "keeping it real" means remaining a thug and a criminal in the face of society, then I do not support it. If "keeping it real" means finding a way to retain your cultural identity while succeeding as a community, who could be against it? That's the issue. Bill Cosby and Jason Whitlock are not telling people to abandon their culture; rather, they are telling people to give up those elements that are systematically destroying many neighborhoods with fear, violence, ignorance, and despair. I do not believe that the relevant segment of African-American (and hip-hop) culture would be any less real, dynamic, powerful, or persevering if it abandoned the glorification of thugs.

BTW, how much money has the (largely white owned and controlled) recording industry made off of thug-oriented rap? My opinion is that, often, "keeping it real" means "getting paid," no matter what the cost to the community.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=warriorzpath;385671]Jason Whitlock cannot speak out against an entire culture, which (for those that do not know) is what hip hop is - bad, good, and indifferent.

It's the same as a non-sports or non-football fan speaking out against the issues caused by the football culture... which among other things also glorifies and promotes violence.[/quote]Comparing the physical violence of football to gun violence promoted by popular culture doesn't wash for me. Football players [I]get hurt[/I] on the field of play. Young folks are [I]dying[/I] in droves from gun violence.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep;385716]Hip hop is flexible enough--and powerful enough--to glorify things other than thugs, gangstas and ho's. Many people have mentioned Public Enemy--you can produce great music with a positive and intelligent message and not be a sell-out. (I certainly don't agree with everything PE preached, but they showed it could be done.)

On perseverance: It depends on what one is persevering for. If "keeping it real" means remaining a thug and a criminal in the face of society, then I do not support it. If "keeping it real" means finding a way to retain your cultural identity while succeeding as a community, who could be against it? That's the issue. Bill Cosby and Jason Whitlock are not telling people to abandon their culture; rather, they are telling people to give up those elements that are systematically destroying many neighborhoods with fear, violence, ignorance, and despair. I do not believe that the relevant segment of African-American (and hip-hop) culture would be any less real, dynamic, powerful, or persevering if it abandoned the glorification of thugs.

[B]BTW, how much money has the (largely white owned and controlled) recording industry made off of thug-oriented rap? My opinion is that, often, "keeping it real" means "getting paid," no matter what the cost to the community[/B].[/QUOTE]


Yes, completely, and you could make that arguement about a hell of a lot of industries. A lot of people getting rich off of other's misfortune.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

For the record, this is why I said subculture:


[IMG]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1275969/def.JPG[/IMG]

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;385703]Edit- I just read your latest post. IF violence is not a key element in hip hop, if it is only what the salesmen sell, then don't you think it is important that the positive forces in hip hop start getting the pub that all of the thugs are currently receiving? Personally, I am not a fan of rap music because of the message, not the delivery. I don't envy those in economically difficult situations, nor those in prison, nor those making money selling drugs. That may be only the vocal minority in the hip hop community espousing those views but as a very casual observer, that is what I am hearing.[/quote]

Don't mistake the business of hip hop with the culture of hip hop. That's what I mean by salesmen. And that's the only message you're getting with hip hop through those salesmen.

If you really feel strongly about hip hop's influence then find some solutions. I'm not saying it's right, but there's no real organization because it is driven by the hip hop business industry. But make no mistake, hip hop is not going away anytime soon - it's actually getting stronger and gaining more influence.

One other thing, some of those answers that you have come up with are general solutions to any social issues - education, community help, leadership. I guess that's what's needed - but how do you do/initiate this?

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;385720]For the record, this is why I said subculture:


[IMG]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1275969/def.JPG[/IMG][/quote]

I agree with the definition but I would take away subgroup(replace it with group) and sub from subculture.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;385721]If you really feel strongly about hip hop's influence then find some solutions. I'm not saying it's right, but there's no real organization because it is driven by the hip hop business industry. But make no mistake, hip hop is not going away anytime soon - it's actually getting stronger and gaining more influence.

One other thing, some of those answers that you have come up with are general solutions to any social issues - education, community help, leadership. I guess that's what's needed - but how do you do/initiate this?[/QUOTE]

They are general solutions, because it's a general problem. The only way to initiate it is to openly discuss it like we are right now. Without attacking race and other issues that truly are not the root of the problem. The only way to affect any real change in america is with money, let's be honest. If consumers started spending their money on hip hop artists with a positive message (Common is one of the few that i can think of...) then the industry will gradually change. It's going to take STRONG, credible community leaders though.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;385728]They are general solutions, because it's a general problem. The only way to initiate it is to openly discuss it like we are right now. Without attacking race and other issues that truly are not the root of the problem. The only way to affect any real change in america is with money, let's be honest. If consumers started spending their money on hip hop artists with a positive message (Common is one of the few that i can think of...) then the industry will gradually change. It's going to take STRONG, credible community leaders though.[/quote]

Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we may not be able to convince them to do anything. Of course, everyone thinks about their own well-being first and then maybe social issues.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

warriorzpath,

I think we mostly disagree on these issues but I can respect what you have said because you have stated it well, with passion and intelligence. One thing you have said several times is that people shouldn't be identifying issues without coming up with solutions. I do think that to be slightly naive. It is disingenuous to ridicule someone for pointing out a problem without offering a solution. It is also lacking much thought because if finding the solutions to problems was as easy as identifying them then we'd probably have very few problems in this world. Inevitably though most problesm require much more thought and dilligence in solving them rather than simply seeing them. I have no problem with Whitlock pointing them out. It is the first step to solving the problem.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;385736]Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we cannot control them.[/QUOTE]

Does not work? How so?

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=FRPLG;385740]Does not work? How so?[/quote]

Because what drives these industries, first and foremost, is money. The priority is to provide what sells regardless of social impact. Then the next priority may be social impact, maybe.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;385736]Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we cannot control them.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to draw a parallel that is more than a bit of a stretch. 30 years ago, everyone knew smoking was bad for you. But they didn't know how bad. Then when they learned how bad, they still didn't stop because they were addicted. It was a habit that was literally ingrained in our culture. Over the past decade or so the country has had the "right" choice literally forced on them. No smoking in bars, businesses or buses for that matter. People bitched and moaned (still are) every step of the way but in the end, we're all better for it. This is not all that different if you think about it. The problem is wide spread, the issue is intertwined with the culture and the end result is deadly. You know, in Germany, it is illegal to say anything positive about Nazism or Hitler. Why? Because the country wants to try to keep from going back to that dark place. They made the decision that for the good of all they would infringe on the free speech of a few. That can be a slippery slope but in some cases it is obviously necessary. I think we are approaching that point. Maybe in addition to community action, education and responsible consumerism, there needs to be legislation that makes it illegal to profit off of any kind of "hate." It would be a hugely controversial issue but eventually it MAY be the only way. I don't know.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;385745]Because what drives these industries, first and foremost, is money. The priority is to provide what sells regardless of social impact. Then the next priority may be social impact, maybe.[/QUOTE]

Maybe a better way to say it would be "does not work very well" instead of "does not work."

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=FRPLG;385739]warriorzpath,

I think we mostly disagree on these issues but I can respect what you have said because you have stated it well, with passion and intelligence. One thing you have said several times is that people shouldn't be identifying issues without coming up with solutions. I do think that to be slightly naive. It is disingenuous to ridicule someone for pointing out a problem without offering a solution. It is also lacking much thought because if finding the solutions to problems was as easy as identifying them then we'd probably have very few problems in this world. Inevitably though most problesm require much more thought and dilligence in solving them rather than simply seeing them. I have no problem with Whitlock pointing them out. It is the first step to solving the problem.[/quote]

I think I found one good first option (trying to meet with a hip hop leader). I disagree with not being responsible enough to find solutions, when you point out problems. I do not respect his views because he provides the problems, but doesn't have anything to add or contribute to solve them.

If he already has this much visibility then he must have some kind of influence.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

The first step to fixing a problem is identifying that there is a problem. I do believe we can all agree on that. The next step is convincing others that there is a problem... only then can you find a solution.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Man, thats deep.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Didn't mean to sound like confucious.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=warriorzpath;385736]Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. [B]We can have an influence, depending on relationships[/B] and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we may not be able to convince them to do anything. Of course, everyone thinks about their own well-being first and then maybe social issues.[/quote]
I think you have hit on a major part of the solution. Grassroots involvement. Everyone needs to be involved in the lives of these teenagers / young men who are at risk. Volunteer at the local schools, talk to kids in your neighboorhood, be involved with extended family. Try to help single parents if they need it.

You are absolutely right, we will never change the rap/hip-hop lyrics or message beause there is too much money to be made by the "artists" (used losely) and because there is no such thing as a socially responsible corporation. Corporations by nature are concerned with only one thing, profits. The only time they make the appearance of being socially responsible is when it helps generate (or protect) profits.

We need to re-inforce to the young men in our country that the rappers, TV & movie personalities aren't "real". They are selling an image and writing lyrics that "gets them paid". They don't live in the projects or in low-income housing. They aren't on the corner "hustlin'". They may have at one point in their lives, but once they got a break and became successful, 98% of them get out of the "hood" as fast as they can.

We need to try to keep the energy these young men have focused in a positive way on sports & academics or whatever other positive activity can keep them interested. Most of all we can't ever give up on these young men or wait for someone else to come up with a solution (gov't, corporations, leaders).

I think about the kids I coach and am always concerned between the end of the season and pre-season workouts because I don't see them and can't give them some corny message or cliche about "doing their homework" or "staying out of trouble". I just pray that I don't get a phone call, letting me know we lost a young man to arrest or worse.

I know we won't be able to save every young man, but we will save some and that's why we need to keep re-inforcing the positive messages on a on-on-one level, get an education, learn to win/lose respectably, learn to work within a team and be good teammate, learn to be a leader. If we can connect one-on-one and stay involved in their lives and let them know we care, they will have something to live for other than "gettin' mine", their "cred", or being a "soulja". We just have to keep trying to show them the path Sean had already found with the birth of his daughter and hope they take it.

:twocents:

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Jason Whitlock is on XXX with John Riggins right now

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

That's wierd. They just cut away during the int to the Steven A. Smith show

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=freddyg12;385599]Actually he does offer a broad solution - black people should resist blaming others & be proacitve to care for their own.[/quote]

Exactly... but I would go even further and add that one should be proactive as an individual and stop blaming and speaking for groups of people, like they have become the self appointed representative or leader.

To me, Whitlock doesn't have much of an understanding of what hip hop truly is - only what he gets from the media (maybe because he is part of the media). And how do you speak on a subject that you do not have knowledge of ?

It would be much more insightful for me to read an article from someone who has knowledge of hip hop and linked it to these issue(s).

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

He talks about not perpetuating and re-enforcing these stereotypes, but then he does it when he speaks and in his article.

I actually think that violence is less promoted in hip hop. I think he still holds on to what he has seen in the old 90's gangster movies with the bloods and crips and all of that. Don't get me wrong those things still go on, but not as prevalent and not to the extent as those movies seem to show.

It may be a little insensitive to do this, but let me compare this to the media's perception of Sean Taylor and what Sean Taylor seemed to be to his friends, teammates, and family. That's the same thing you have with the perception of hip hop, or rather misconception and misundertanding of. Your gonna believe what you want to believe, but that doesn't mean it's true.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Jason Whitlock blames everything on hiphop. He is guilty of the same crime he is accusing everyone else of. When Pac Man was "making it rain" he blamed hiphop. That is a weak excuse. The Miami area has been dangerous ever since the Columbian Cartels turned it out in the 80's. We don't know if a blackman killed Sean. He does not know Sean. Just because he got a DUI "which got dropped", and got in a fight over ATV's makes him questionable? It's ludicrous to think the problems of the black community are caused by entertainers. When they catch the murderer who killed Sean and if he is not black, Whitlock should be called out. If anyone is to blame for "athletes gone wild" like PacMan and Chris Henry it is Nike and all these other corporations who coddle them. Sean is on a higher level than Pac Man or Chris Henry. Whitlock is trying to push his "blame everything on hip hop agenda " at the expense of Sean's memory. Big cities have been gangster since before Al Capone.