Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;394680]I had a man crush on Andre Carter a couple of years ago, and that's paid off nicely. :)[/quote]

I think there are alot of folks who still need to eat some crow on Andre Carter.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;394655]Yeah I think people get caught up in the big name whiffs, and don't realize all the good things that he's done personnel wise. The good outnumbers the bad by far, but the big misses are what people remember.[/quote]

Matty - Gibbs has made some good pickups with late round picks - I guess where I am coming from as far as personel decisions is that Gibbs has made some wiffs on big name players but this outweighs his solid pickups by the fact that it has hurt the cap future of the team as well.

I am of the camp of building through the draft and picking up lots of undrafted/unheralded free agents and lower round picks because as you and many have pointed out executives hit and miss across the board, but at least if you miss with a lower pick or an unheralded free agent the cap consequences are not so great. Also, I think a lot of unproven players tend to play harder than a guy who signs a contract with a $10 million bonus (Brandon Llyod comes to mind as the player who gets the money and becomes a dud) because they want that to see that kind of money as well. I like how the Steelers operate and continuosly reload their team when players who had big years leave to sign huge contracts and the Steelers continue to replace them due to good scouting.

I think everyone needs to include cap management when they grade personnel decision making. Yes the Skins can always use cash to get over their cap problems in the near term, but it puts a heavy strain on picking up extra players and we all see that depth is so important in this league. Cap problems also makes the team restructure a lot of contracts which puts further stain on future salary caps.

To posters out there I ask - are you happy with the way the team's personnel decision making is with concerns to the way the Redskins handle their salary cap? Does anyone out there like to see our Skins $20 million over entering the 2008 salary cap? Do people like to see the Skins constantly have to restructure contracts and put further strain on future salary caps?

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;394664]I agree with you mostly, however I do fell he will be here next year as coach. I am not so sure I would want him back after the contract is up. I think we should move GW into head coach, let Al run the offense as he sees fit. RUMOR : has Al being let go at the end of the year because Joe does not like the progression of the offense. I dont really like hearing that, as Jason would have to learn a whole new system and there is always growing pains with learning a whole new system. #'s show that Als system is progressive, the first year in the high 20's, 2nd year low 20's to high teens, then the third year is the big jump in the top 10. I want this outfit to show some consistancy. so when Joe decides to call it quits, we keep GW, move Blache to D-cord and let Al run the show on offense.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure I said he will be back next year.

I really hope GW does not become head coach as i dont realyy think he was all that great when he had that job before and his D has been mediocre this year when they were supposed to be the bedrock of the team. I have also heard Danny does not like GW but puts up with him because Gibbs wants him. I just cant imagine Danny making someone he does not care for the head coach.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

The Skins play the salary cap game better than anyone in the league. So for me no their cap mgmt. doesn't concern me all that much. Since 2000 we've heard of this impending cap doom yet it never seems to come. Why? It's simple, Danny and co. know what they're doing... at least when it comes to working the cap that is.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Manusky91;394649]I was expecting Bill Cowher to come coach the Skins in '09 after Gibbs finished his contract. Cowher keeps saying that he will not coach next year, but has not ruled out '09 after his daughter graduates. It seemed like perfect timing for the Skins and Cowher.

That being said, I personally would like to see Gibbs on the sideline as long as he wants. I don't care what all the critics say about the game passing him by. I saw him do it before, I think he still has it in him to do it again.[/quote]

Manusky - I actually think I'd rather have Kevin Colbert more than Bill Cowher. I think what people need to think about more than the coach is the FO (GM) behind the coach. Unfortunately the Steelers are smart enough to know that good GM's are hard to find and resigned Colbert to a 5 year extension. Here is a story about Colbert and below is qoute from the Steelers owner on Kevin:

"We are very pleased to have Kevin continue as an important member of our front office for years to come," said Steelers president Art Rooney II in a statement. "[B]Obviously, he has played a vital role in our success over the past several years, including the Super Bowl title last season."[/B]
Colbert is in charge of the team's football operations, all player personnel and scouting decisions.

[url=http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06209/709243-66.stm]Steelers extend Colbert's contract[/url]

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;394691]The Skins play the salary cap game better than anyone in the league. So for me no their cap mgmt. doesn't concern me all that much. Since 2000 we've heard of this impending cap doom yet it never seems to come. Why? It's simple, Danny and co. know what they're doing... at least when it comes to working the cap that is.[/quote]


But Matty one thing about the cap is that if you continually restructure contracts you put further pressure on the caps in future years - kind of reminds me of the US and the way we deal with the deficit. Yes we can continue to print money and buy our way out of debt for the current year but eventually the US is going to have to pay the piper and deal with the huge debt. So relating to the Skins - yes the Skins can continue to restructure contracts to get under the cap but wouldn't it be nice to not have to constantly have to do this and free up the teams abillity to sign better depth players?

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=irish;394689]I'm pretty sure I said he will be back next year.

I really hope GW does not become head coach as i dont realyy think he was all that great when he had that job before and his D has been mediocre this year when they were supposed to be the bedrock of the team. I have also heard Danny does not like GW but puts up with him because Gibbs wants him. I just cant imagine Danny making someone he does not care for the head coach.[/quote]

How has the D been mediocre this year?

10th overall (19th vs. pass, 9th vs. rush).

12th overall in points given up per game with 20.2.

9th overall in 3rd down conversion % with 38%

They are in the top 1/3 in most major categories. Sorry but that's really not fitting of the definition of mediocre.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Also as far as cap management goes I am not positive on how much the Redskins use "likely to be earned incentives", which if a player does not earn it than the incentive actually counts as a cap credit. I would venture to guess that the Skins don't use it that much because they have to often restructure players contracts and all of the players have good agents that minimize these type of incentives and ask for signing bonuses and roster bonuses instead - but the cap experts on this site have a better idea on how much the Skins incorporate these type of incentives into players contracts.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

How about an eye for undrafted FA? Heyer, Alexander, Mason, Wilson, Buzbee, Westbrook. We know what Heyer, Alexander and Wilson have done so far and it's only a tiny bit of the iceberg, those guys will get better next year and I wouldn't be surprised if the others on the list make the starting lineup next year. I'll go out on a limb and say that I wouldn't be surprised if we see some pro bowls out of those guys in the future.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

I would have mixed emotions about Gibbs extending a couple more years. There's nothing more i would like to see than JG leaving the game successfully. I have alot of respect for him and the job he's done this year. Although I feel that some coaching decisions have cost us games this year, i think this team would have folded had anyone else been coaching other than JG.

As for personel decisions...some good and some major blunders. Don't forget 2 years of Brunell. Everybody glosses over that, but it was a major setback watching Brunell play for 2 years.

This team has been so inconsistent i really don't know what to think right now. I hope GW stays w/ the team though and doesn't get lured away. If JG's decides to extend GW might not want to wait around much longer.

GW I believe has overachieved this year, w/ what our team has lost. Safety, starting corners, LB's, etc. A top 10 defense w/ what really amounts to a bunch of no names (no disrespect) is phenomenal.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Say what you will but MB did take us to the playoffs in 2005. Let's not gloss over that.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

I just shook my head when I heard this on NFL Radio this afternoon.. I think Gibbs will be around for at least next season to finish his contract but I hope he doesn't get a coaching extension.

His FO moves have been 60-40 good (Cooley, Campbell, Moss, Carter, Rabach, Washington, Taylor, Landry, Portis, Springs, Griffin vs. Lloyd, Arch, Brunell, ARE-sorry, I like the guy but he's been a bust overall, letting Dockery and Pierce get away, pissing away draft picks) but I think he's just overmatched on the sidelines most weeks.

I'm fine with Gibbs as team president, setting the overall tone and direction of the franchise but I think we need a new coach on the sidelines that is more in tune with today's game.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

I really hope you guys are kidding. Regardless of what happens this year Joe needs to go. I much as I respect him for what he has done in the past he still needs to go. Poor clock management, poor play calling, poor use of time outs and challenges that cost us timeouts have all been a problem in his four years. Look at this collectively over 4 years not just when we win a couple of games in a row.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Well, as I've been saying for months (if not years). I think the only person who should decide if he comes back is Gibbs himself. Personally, I want him back because he's probably the biggest reason (next to my brother) that I'm a fan of the team and he's the best thing to ever happen to the franchise. But I also don't think he should feel he owes the fans anything or has to prove anything to anyone. So if he chooses to step aside, I'm ok with that. He's earned the right to do whatever he wants.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;394782]Well, as I've been saying for months (if not years). I think the only person who should decide if he comes back is Gibbs himself. Personally, I want him back because he's probably the biggest reason (next to my brother) that I'm a fan of the team and he's the best thing to ever happen to the franchise. But I also don't think he should feel he owes the fans anything or has to prove anything to anyone. So if he chooses to step aside, I'm ok with that. He's earned the right to do whatever he wants.[/quote]

Well, the guy who signs his check might have a say in whether he comes back or not. Don't you think?

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;394728]Say what you will but MB did take us to the playoffs in 2005. Let's not gloss over that.[/quote]

So I guess the defense had nothing to do with that?

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Mark Brunell, Clinton Portis, and the defense were all significantly responsible for our 5 game winning streak at the end of the 2005 season that got us into the playoffs.

This shouldn't even be debatable.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;394790]Mark Brunell, Clinton Portis, and the defense were all significantly responsible for our 5 game winning streak at the end of the 2005 season that got us into the playoffs.

This shouldn't even be debatable.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget Santana Moss, those catches against the Cowboys on Monday night set the tone for the season.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;394786]So I guess the defense had nothing to do with that?[/quote]

Did I say they didn't?

I was simply saying MB played a part in that. Just like the D, the running game, etc.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;394700]How has the D been mediocre this year?

10th overall (19th vs. pass, 9th vs. rush).

12th overall in points given up per game with 20.2.

9th overall in 3rd down conversion % with 38%

They are in the top 1/3 in most major categories. Sorry but that's really not fitting of the definition of mediocre.[/quote]
In the above statistics the D looks good, but:

Giants: 17-3 Skins at Half / 21-0 NYG in 2nd L
Packers: 14-7 Skins at Half / 10-0 GB in 2nd L
Cards: 14-6 Skins at Half / 13-7 Cards in 2nd W
Eagles: 12-7 Skins at Half / 26-13 Eagles in 2nd L
Dallas: 10-7 Skins at Half / 21-13 Dallas in 2nd L
Bills: 9-2 Skins at Half / 15-7 Bills in 2nd L
Bears: 7-0 Skins at Half / 17-16 Skins in 2nd W

Also we are -7 in turnover ratio

If we could stay even in the 2nd half of two of these games we are 9-5. Sitting back watching that Cover-2 get picked apart in the 2nd half with almost no defensive shifts or blitzing is sickening. In each of these games it appears the opponent's offense adjusts to our gameplan at halftime and GW isn't prepared.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

If Gibbs wants to extend I'm all for it. I think that he should just become the GM after he finishes coaching. Just wanted to put my name in the hat as a big time Gibbs supporter.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

i think Joe will continue as head coach of the skins and maybe take us back to the super bowl in 09 i hope . rest in peace sean the team and all thier true fans will miss you very much and congrads on being selected to the first team probowl. may you rest in peace and may the lord make his light to shine upon you and look down on this team now that they need your help very much.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

ARE's a bust? Compared to which of our other top-notch WR's?

Good lord, he's played like a WR1 many weeks, even though he was signed to be our WR3!

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

I noticed that SI.com also reported this story. I think the comments following the SI piece say a lot. Fans of other teams, especially NFC East teams, are praying Gibbs stays. A lot of other fans, including ones who have followed the Redskins for years, think the whole situation is laughable (in a bad way) at this point.

I kind of see both angles. Most Skins fans I hear away from this website think Gibbs' departure is overdue. The mistakes made in almost every facet of the organization have been appalling. I know a lot of noise was made about the "double time out" incident but some guys I know who have been Skins fans for 3 or 4 decades point out that a bigger picture w/ much bigger problems is the reality here. On the other hand, I also see that Gibbs brings [I]something[/I] to the table, however intangible it may be. Maybe it's integrity, maybe stability, I don't really know.

Listening to all sides has given me some direction. Gibbs should probably stay but it seems insane, literally, for him to retain the position of head coach - even for '08. I think he can contribute in some important ways but it should be something easier, like GM or head of "Operations" or VP of Personnel. I gues I really hope he extends but in a different role.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Fans of other teams are as stupid as Redskins fans then if they "pray for Gibbs to stay." But then, you do have fans of other teams (Giantone and Sandtrapjack for example) who are smart enough to know that Gibbs as our head coach is not, IS NOT, a liability. And I'll bet most Giants fans would rather have Gibbs leading them late in the season than Coughlin. Are there better coaches available than Gibbs? Possibly. Can we do worse? Absolutely. To say otherwise is...(Schneed, fill in the blank)

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=dgack;394844]ARE's a bust? Compared to which of our other top-notch WR's?

Good lord, he's played like a WR1 many weeks, even though he was signed to be our WR3![/QUOTE]

43 catches, 636 yds, 0 TD.. Which #1 WR is he playing like?

Perhaps David Patten, Bobby Wade, Jeff King, James Jones, Eric Johnson? He trails all of them in receptions, yards and/or TD.. Not to mention he's made virtually no impact in the return game..

Sorry, I'm a huge fan of the guy, but that's a bust.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=dgack;394844]ARE's a bust? Compared to which of our other top-notch WR's?

Good lord, he's played like a WR1 many weeks, even though he was signed to be our WR3![/QUOTE]

43 receptions and no touchdowns is "playing like a WR1" ??

I don't know if I would call him a 'bust', but with receiving and punt returns, he's been awfully quiet this year.

Even the hardcore haters seem to give him a pass.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394655]Yeah I think people get caught up in the big name whiffs, and don't realize all the good things that he's done personnel wise. The good outnumbers the bad by far, but the big misses are what people remember.[/QUOTE]

Look, we've been through this before. I'll give him credit where it's due...

-- [B]Jason Campbell [/B]looks good. He's got some real fine tuning to do, and I really hope he's the future at QB for many years to come. But I think there's still a question mark there.

-- [B]Stephon Heyer [/B]performed admirably against Strahan. I was really worried about that matchup last week, but he came through in a big way. I think he's an excellent find as a backup, but as a 16 game starter? Not yet. Still, he was a great find.

-- [B]Cedric Golston and Anthony Montgomery [/B]were absolute steals. In my book, they are by far Gibbs' greatest accomplishments as far as draft picks go. And to think they were 5th and 6th rounders? Stunning. Got no complaints there.

-- [B]Rocky McIntosh and Chris Cooley [/B]represent solid talent and league leading stars respectively. Good finds, no doubt. But the problem is that they, along with Jason Campbell were 2 for 1 deals -- we had to pay DOUBLE to get them here.

Sure he has some 'hits'. But the misses have been nothing short of devastating, and in many cases their impacts haven't even been seen yet. How many future seasons will be affected by trading away two 3rd round picks, and two 4th round picks for guys that aren't even here, or are on their way out? The magnitude of those 'misses' are [I]staggering[/I].

Then there are the questionable moves -- trading away a 3rd for Brunnel. Tossing in a 2nd for Portis. And as I said in a previous post, Antwaan Randle El is frequently pointed out as a 'hit'. What exactly has he done that makes everyone mindlessly agree that he's a 'hit' when he has so little production to show for it?

And wasn't there some sentiment here on this board recently about Santana Moss and how some people aren't sure he is quite the fixture he was made out to be?

Then there are the 'bad with money' decisions -- Adam Archuleta, giving Darnerian McCants a $2 million bonus two weeks before he was declared inactive, then subsequently released.

Then there's Ryan Clark. Antonio Pierce. Warrick Holdman.

Sorry. I just don't see how the good picks outnumber the bad picks "by far." A losing record over the past four seasons simply doesn't support it.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

So all you can point out is 6 success stories in 4 years?

I'm not talking about just the draft either.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

For some reason, everyone assumes that we sacrificed future Hall of Famer when we traded away those 3rd and 4th round picks. That's a huge assumption to make

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;394797]In the above statistics the D looks good, but:

Giants: 17-3 Skins at Half / 21-0 NYG in 2nd L
Packers: 14-7 Skins at Half / 10-0 GB in 2nd L
Cards: 14-6 Skins at Half / 13-7 Cards in 2nd W
Eagles: 12-7 Skins at Half / 26-13 Eagles in 2nd L
Dallas: 10-7 Skins at Half / 21-13 Dallas in 2nd L
Bills: 9-2 Skins at Half / 15-7 Bills in 2nd L
Bears: 7-0 Skins at Half / 17-16 Skins in 2nd W

Also we are -7 in turnover ratio

If we could stay even in the 2nd half of two of these games we are 9-5. Sitting back watching that Cover-2 get picked apart in the 2nd half with almost no defensive shifts or blitzing is sickening. In each of these games it appears the opponent's offense adjusts to our gameplan at halftime and GW isn't prepared.[/quote]

You can't blame the D entirely. The offense hasn't exactly pulled their weight at times and too often left the defense high and dry in the 2nd half of games.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394865]So all you can point out is 6 success stories in 4 years?[/QUOTE]

How does the possibility of a 30-34 record over four seasons translate into "success" ?

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;394866]For some reason, everyone assumes that we sacrificed future Hall of Famer when we traded away those 3rd and 4th round picks. That's a huge assumption to make[/QUOTE]

Nobody assumes they were future Hall of Famers. But might they have been more Anthony Montgomerys? More Golstons or Rock Cartwrights?

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;394868]How does the possibility of a 30-34 record over four seasons translate into "success" ?[/QUOTE]

Because the original point of this mini-discussion here started when you disputed RajMahal's point that Gibbs has done a good job of finding and developing youth. So really the past four years isn't the true indicator of success in this case.

It's about the potential success we we have ahead of us with guys like Campbell, Moss, Portis, Cooley, Heyer, Alexander, Landry, Rocky, Rogers, Montgomery, Golston, Doughty, Blades (among others) leading the way.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Beemnseven;394868]How does the possibility of a 30-34 record over four seasons translate into "success" ?[/quote]

I'm talking about individual players that we can either deem a good player (success) or bad player (failure). I'm looking at personnel only, I'm not talking about records.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;394869]Nobody assumes they were future Hall of Famers. But might they have been more Anthony Montgomerys? More Golstons or Rock Cartwrights?[/QUOTE]

Maybe. Maybe not. I think to say the magnitude of those misses is "staggering" is a bit of hyperbole.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;394870]Because the original point of this mini-discussion here started when you disputed RajMahal's point that Gibbs has done a good job of finding and developing youth. [B]So really the past four years isn't the true indicator of success in this case. [/B]

It's about the potential success we we have ahead of us with guys like Campbell, Moss, Portis, Cooley, Heyer, Alexander, Landry, Rocky, Rogers, Montgomery, Golston, Doughty, Blades (among others) leading the way.[/QUOTE]

So your overall record isn't a good indicator of your success? The players you acquire have no impact on those records?

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;394875]So your overall record isn't a good indicator of your success? The players you acquire have no impact on those records?[/QUOTE]

I guess you didn't understand my post. That's ok.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

And regarding Williams and the job he has done, I think we have too quickly forgotten about last season and how disastrous it was due to just a few key injuries.

This year we've been hit even harder injury wise and the ship hasn't been knocked too far off course. I think that's a testament to the added depth in the back 7 and the development of guys like Rocky, Montgomery, and Andre Carter being a steady pass rushing threat.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=MTRedskinsFan;394845]I noticed that SI.com also reported this story. I think the comments following the SI piece say a lot. Fans of other teams, especially NFC East teams, are praying Gibbs stays. A lot of other fans, including ones who have followed the Redskins for years, think the whole situation is laughable (in a bad way) at this point.

I kind of see both angles. Most Skins fans I hear away from this website think Gibbs' departure is overdue. The mistakes made in almost every facet of the organization have been appalling. I know a lot of noise was made about the "double time out" incident but some guys I know who have been Skins fans for 3 or 4 decades point out that a bigger picture w/ much bigger problems is the reality here. On the other hand, I also see that Gibbs brings [I]something[/I] to the table, however intangible it may be. Maybe it's integrity, maybe stability, I don't really know.

Listening to all sides has given me some direction. Gibbs should probably stay but it seems insane, literally, for him to retain the position of head coach - even for '08. I think he can contribute in some important ways but it should be something easier, like GM or head of "Operations" or VP of Personnel. I gues I really hope he extends but in a different role.[/quote]

Gibbs certainly does bring [I]something[/I] to the table which is more than anyone could say for you. You are a supercillious bore. I'm tired of being polite with these know nothings. It's crunch time and anyone here who doesn't throw their full support behind this team will get a merciless rhetorical beating from me and oh I how I long to bring it.