Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;394856]SmootSmack: I think you're wrong. Most people saying go for the kill, want us to continue moving the ball as we were. You haven't noticed us doing one thing, getting up, then going back on our haunches? Late in the game, I want to see high percentage pass plays, sometimes even on first or second down. Running 3 times burns some time, but getting a first down or two burns a lot more.

By go for the kill it's the continuation of offense for 60 minutes. Not what happened half the season where we play offense, go to halftime, stop playing offense, try to start playing to win the game.

People that are blaming the defense for losing these games. How many games have we lost where the defense gave up less than 20 points. A lot. To me, scoring defense is the most important stat, and we're doing damn good. We didn't even let Buffalo score a TD, but they still beat us. The defense is on the field a long time, they're tired, and they shouldn't be required to win 3/4ths of the games.[/QUOTE]

Agree to disagree, I suppose. I wish we had a playoff spot locked up so we could "go for the kill" and then get burned. And then see what people say. I'm not convinced that most people mean "continuation of the offense" (whatever that means)

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

Have said players ever done any of that consistently? Are any of them besides Cooley and maybe Portis in the top 5 at their respective positions in scoring TDs or all-purpose yards? Do any of them really attract double coverage or serve as the singular focus for opposing defenses to game-plan around?

Don't be in such disbelief; I am not stating the Skins' offensive threats aren't significant. I feel they lack the qualities a player like Priest Holmes, Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Larry Johnson and Tony Gonzalez had in their prime when Saunders was working with their offenses. You are more than welcome to dispute my point, but I feel many would agree with me.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

I concur with Daseal, there is nothing more frustrating as a fan than to watch your team go up and down the field against opposing defenses only to see them turn around and go 3 and out over and over at the end of games. How hard is it to just keep moving the ball and maintain posession at the end? More often than not when we put our defense in a position to win the game for us at the end, it backfires. I would like to see high percentage pass plays on 1st and second down and runs on third down at the end of games. Other teams know that we are going to run on 1st and 2nd and try and pass on 3rd.

If I know its comming, then those who get paid to defend it sure as hell do too.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

in 05 with gibbs running the offence we were the 11th ranked offence in the nfl. i think gibbs needs to leave the front office politics alone and stick to the coaching. so i voted no!!!

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;394840]According to the players, continuity is a huge deal. Having the same offensive system in place while Campbell is still young and learning is much better than making him learn a completely new system.[/quote]


It's overrated I maintain. I think if you have the same guys in place it matters more than having new faces and the same system. These guys are professionals.

We've seen new systems work in the NFL year in and year out. And conversely, we've seen new systems fail. I used to buy it, not any longer.

If Santana and Jason decided to get on the same page, it doesn't matter who the offensive coordinator is, but if the head coach and the coordinator aren't on the same page, it certainly has rippling effect.

Personally, I could care less if Gibbs stays or goes. If he stays, I want him to define his role and live or die with it.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

I'd be happy with Saunders and Williams for many years down the road. We must think longterm success. Not overnight facade. Gibbs and Co. have been building a younger and younger team. Stability is the answer.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

keep him, and with full control. this is the most consistency the redskins franchise has had since Snyder took over.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

You cant underestimate the importance of keeping a young quarterback in the same system. Having to learn a new system could be career suicide for JC. It usually takes teams 2-3 years to have success with a new offensive coordinator. Keep things simple and like mentioned before lets work on stability.

The offense played very well at the end of 06..and our injuires up front hurt us this year..but we seem to have established the run again and with that comes PA passes down field to #89.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

Keep Saunders, let him coach.
KEEP WILLIAMS & let him become the next head coach.

I can't believe that people can be that hard on GW. Forget the stats, I think it was Schneed that said it; scoring d is what matters & we don't give up much.

Does anyone remember the end of 2006? Our O was running all over people & Betts had a 1,100 yd. season. JC was in his first starts blut was managing the game & making some nice plays, & not turning it over. At this point w/a healthy o line & a 2nd yr. qb, Saunders' O was working.

At the time our D sucked & there were some problems that GW has to be accountable for. Yet this year, he's been accountable & the D has stepped up, even w/major personnel losses.

My point is that when both coaches have healthy & mature personel they will succeed. JC's game will make great strides next year & the O line will be revamped. Draft well & keep the same staff, the Skins need continuity.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

id honestly like us to keep saunders, and i favor him becoming head coach over williams

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

Saunders system works. Gibbs should give him full authority to call all the plays. Getting rid of Williams is crazy. The defense is the best unit on the team. I foresee Williams being the Redskins next head coach when Gibbs decides to retire.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

yes!! big yes!! if you look at Als offenses he has taken over, St Louis and kansas city, it took 3 years for them to actually start putting up points and being the dominant forces they became. I would hate for Al to leave, and have to start all over with another scheme and Jason having to learn another system. It takes a couple of years to get schemes and systems down and run them smoothly. I hope he stays.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[quote=Big C;394986]id honestly like us to keep saunders, and i favor him becoming head coach over williams[/quote]

I doubt that would happen and in fact I don't see Saunders getting a head coaching job in this league any time soon. He's been passed over quite a few times despite putting up some high powered offenses. Probably because he's got the personality of a librarian.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[quote=Paintrain;394733]Playing for the win is different than playing not to lose..[/quote]Explain how.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

by allmeans i say yes!

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;395083]Explain how.[/QUOTE]

Very simple..

Playing to win is continuing to be aggressive for 60 minutes (see New England), continuing to run your ENTIRE offense for 60 minutes, taking chances when they are there, making things happen on both sides of the ball by dictating to your opponent..

Continuing to try to score EVERY TIME you have the ball, regardless of the score, is playing to win..

Playing not to lose is getting a lead and changing what you've been doing to try to get the clock to run out before your opponent can catch up, avoiding throwing the ball downfield or running all of the plays in your playbook once you have a lead because you are afraid of turning the ball over, allowing your opponent to move the ball by playing vanilla defense because the clock will keep running and trying to stiffen up in the red zone..

Basically running out to a lead and sitting on it is playing not to lose..

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

as long as we don't go into super-ultra-conservative mode whenever we get a 3 point lead, it doesn't really matter.

though i do think at this point that saunders is a better offensive gameplanner/play caller than gibbs.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

Right now the offensive line has so many injuries, and you've got new people that Bugel is trying to work with. When we can move people off the line of scrimmage consistently, Al's value to the Redskins will be appreciated. I liked Saunders' call of the draw play against the Giants where Betts bulled his way into the end zone. The blocking looked good on that one.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

With a healthy line and a new number one receiver (Moss is a solid number two as discussed in too many threads to name) Saunders can restore magic and should come back. I still think he calls the plays with rare exception, though maybe he should be in charge of timeouts too ;)

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;394931]Keep Saunders, let him coach.
KEEP WILLIAMS & let him become the next head coach.

I can't believe that people can be that hard on GW. Forget the stats, I think it was Schneed that said it; scoring d is what matters & we don't give up much.

Does anyone remember the end of 2006? Our O was running all over people & Betts had a 1,100 yd. season. JC was in his first starts blut was managing the game & making some nice plays, & not turning it over. At this point w/a healthy o line & a 2nd yr. qb, Saunders' O was working.

At the time our D sucked & there were some problems that GW has to be accountable for. Yet this year, he's been accountable & the D has stepped up, even w/major personnel losses.

My point is that when both coaches have healthy & mature personel they will succeed. JC's game will make great strides next year & the O line will be revamped. Draft well & keep the same staff, the Skins need continuity.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree w/ you sir. One thing GW has consistently said is that it's the players who allow him to make a great defensive stategy. Last year it kind of seemed like an excuse but w/ the development of new talent at LB and in the secondary I better understand what he means.

I think the only pt i differ is [I]how[/I] to keep the same staff - I'd like to see Gibbs take a different role in the organization and one of the two head coordinators take over as HC.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

I can't wait until Sunday when Al Saunders will vindicate himself by calling everything right no matter how many starters the Cowboys rest! We could have won the first game against the Cowboys but the Redskins like to make things exciting. Super Bowl here we come. We're better than the Cowboys and the Packers, so who else deserves to be playing there?

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[quote=JLee9718;397505]I can't wait until Sunday when Al Saunders will vindicate himself by calling everything right no matter how many starters the Cowboys rest! We could have won the first game against the Cowboys but the Redskins like to make things exciting. Super Bowl here we come. We're better than the Cowboys and the Packers, so who else deserves to be playing there?[/quote]

can't knock the optimism, but reading this did make me think of Jim Mora. I can hear him saying, "Super Bowl? you kidding me? Super Bowl, don't talk about the super bowl!"

I don't think we're better than dallas, but we can beat them. They've never beaten the skins in the playoffs, 0-3.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

Saunders should absolutely come back. Most new offenses take a while to get rolling. We saw how well the running game can work when our o-line is healthy and we are seeing how well our passing game can work with Collins in there. I see Jason and the rest of the offense putting it all together next year. I really don't see many offensive holes to fill once we are healthy.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

Parcell's will probably offer him 5 Mil and Collins 5 Mil after we go to the Super Bowl and Gibbs will still have Campbell and Brunell

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394681]I'm on the fence on this one so I thought I would toss up a poll.

Should Al Saunders return next year to run the offense?[/QUOTE]

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[QUOTE=MTRedskinsFan;394850]I said yes, but only if he gets total control. I also think the only way that will really happen is if Gibbs is not the HC next year. Not that I think he should fully retire, but would be very happy to see Gibbs move into another role within the organization.

I've also started to wonder whether Saunders will choose to move on to bigger and better. He was so successful when he had control of the reigns in KC, and anyone can imagine how frustrating it's probably been to compromise in offensive stategy (particularly in regard to being "influenced" to call 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 run plays in a row when every guy on the opposing team knows exactly what's coming). I remember the heady day of KC's #1 offense very well and that kind of thing NEVER happened.

Anyway, Saunders may have better opportunities emerge outside D.C. and I think it would leave us in worse shape.[/QUOTE]


I agree with the first sentence...Saunders should be given full control. Disagree with the second sentence. Full control could be given to Saunders even while Gibbs stays as HC. Just give Gibbs a toy/fake motorola headset.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

I definitely think we should bring Al back. Continuity is the key and its something we haven't had. Campbell will have 3 years under his belt, and should have a full grasp of the offense by then. I think the signs we are showing now will translate into next season. I can see us being a top 10 offense. As long as we can stay healthy.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

It's an absolute- yes. There is no doubt in my mind that you bring him back. No question. This year, the offense has performed better than in any season with the exception of 2005, but that season ended with offensive futility - probably prompting gibbs to hire saunders.

Obviously the qb position was the key to this offense doing well. Collins is very efficient in this offense and the reason why the redskins are doing well lately. It's not a knock on Campbell, but he just needs to correct and work on a few things.

I was probably the only poster on here that said given the chance, Collins would probably do well (which was based on what Saunders said about him when he arrived in DC).

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

i thought the scheme was a disaster in `06 but were gelling this season. The players needed time ..not al saunders. i say stick with em..at least thru `08.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[quote=JimmyCruz;397711]i thought the scheme was a disaster in `06 but were gelling this season. The players needed time ..not al saunders. i say stick with em..at least thru `08.[/quote]

remember the end of 06 though - we had a serious running game & JC played well. If we'd had half a D we'd have been a solid team.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

i say keep al and everybody else here cause it will benefit the whole team and organization...we should know by now that the more you change the worse off you,ll be...but if al receives a phone to be someones head coach then who knows..i say stay....jason is very close and if we can have a season or two with some health on our side then skys the limit with all the coaches returning.

continuity is key for this team..

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

I don't think the problems we've been having are a direct link to Al. If we could say "This is his fault", then I'm ready to see him get launched. But for the most part the plays have worked, but the players have failed to execute them.
I say keep him around for another season, and give him total control.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[QUOTE=MTRedskinsFan;395227]
I think the only pt i differ is [I]how[/I] to keep the same staff - I'd like to see Gibbs take a different role in the organization and one of the two head coordinators take over as HC.[/QUOTE]


I believe the natural order the Redskins should follow is this: Continue having an offensive and defensive coordinator who's #1 duty is to call the plays in the game. Continue having one head coach who oversees and manages the whole thing. If this isn't already happening with Gibbs, it should be. While either Saunders or Williams is at least calling 80% of the plays, they should just remain as coordinators until:
a.) the offense and defense are both perfected and running like well oiled machines
b.) the next guy in line is starting to call 50% or more of the plays.

It's a natural progression that keeps continuity while eventually promoting guys into situations where they can be most successful. Since our offense is continuing to evolve and hasn't gotten up to the point where it should be at just yet with Campbell, you need Saunders in there being the guy running the offense. Gregg Williams might be closer to giving Greg Blanche more control of the offense than Al Saunders giving Don Breaux or Jack Burns control. But, until that point, I believe things should remain the same for now. Gibbs as Head Coach, Saunders and Williams as coordinators.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

I think that Todd Collin's recent success is a tribute to Al Saunders. A timing critical offense works best with a vet behind the helm. I don't want to put the weight of our offensive ineptitude on Jason, but i think it's very telling how much more dynamic and effective our offense has become in the last 2.5 games.

Our offense is built on timing and accuracy, not arm strength and youth. Hopefully Jason gets the opportunity to develop his small ball skills in a great system. Keep Al.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

I think it's obvious now that Al's system was not the problem. The problem was we didn't have a QB that could fully execute his offense. Campbell will get there, but right now Collins is playing lights out and showing that this offense is a dangerous one.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;397766]I think it's obvious now that Al's system was not the problem. The problem was we didn't have a QB that could fully execute his offense. Campbell will get there, but right now Collins is playing lights out and showing that this offense is a dangerous one.[/quote]

Matty, I agree w/the 1st statement, but I think a couple things should be pointed out about Collins' performance v. JC:

1) Collins has had better pass pro. Certainly in the Bears game, there was a lot of max protect plays & since then we see 2 backs in to block, usually the FB helps Heyer. JC was left back there alone a lot more, though in the TB game (in which Heyer started - his first I believe) we saw this a good bit too.
2) Heyer's coming along rapidly it seems. Having started the last several games he is getting much better. The o line as a unit is really looking good & his improvement might be the difference as the right side has been weak all season.
3) Moss & Portis. Both are healthy & are playing their best. Moss td last week was clearly all him, could've just as easily have been picked.
4) Inspiration, whatever its come from the team is playing inspired in all phases.

Collins certainly deserves credit, I just think the other components of the O have improved greatly as well.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

Yes other things around Collins have improved, but I still think he's been the main catalyst for the improvements on offense.

I'm honestly not sure if we would be in this position if JC was still playing. That's not a knock against him, it's just a compliment for how well Collins has played. He's taken this offense to a different level.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

Ive got to agree with Matty. When (other than Cooley) your two primary offensive weapons get hot at exactly the same time, you can't overlook the guy dishing them ball.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;397779]Yes other things around Collins have improved, but I still think he's been the main catalyst for the improvements on offense.

I'm honestly not sure if we would be in this position if JC was still playing. That's not a knock against him, it's just a compliment for how well Collins has played. He's taken this offense to a different level.[/quote]

That's the question I had in mind as well, would JC have the team in this position? I'd like to think so, but it's a tough question. remember Collins hasn't had to play in a really close game. The bears game was, & he closed the deal. You would think that Collins would be a better 2:00 qb than JC at this point, but it's also been years since he's been in that kind of pressure situation.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

I think that the offense can work with the full control of Al Saunders. The Skins have gotten far with the injuries to Jansen and Campbell. I think what the Skins need is a qb coach with a pedigree to groom great qb's. If Jason Campbell can learn to throw over the top of defense and not through it (ex. Dallas and Tampa Bay), he can become one of the top 5 qb's in the NFL. He just needs a coach who can instill those qualities.

Re: Should Al Saunders return in '08?
 

[quote=tnskinsfan67;397862]I think that the offense can work with the full control of Al Saunders. The Skins have gotten far with the injuries to Jansen and Campbell. I think what the Skins need is a qb coach with a pedigree to groom great qb's. If Jason Campbell can learn to throw over the top of defense and not through it (ex. Dallas and Tampa Bay), he can become one of the top 5 qb's in the NFL. He just needs a coach who can instill those qualities.[/quote]

Troy Aikman for QB coach next year?

Jason: "Hi Troy, really excited to be able to work with you."

Troy: "Mr Snyder made me an offer I couldnt refuse."

Jason: "I love Mr Snyder, I respect him more than any other person in my life."

Troy: "Sure."

Jason: "What's the most important thing you can tell me about being successfull in the NFL?"

Troy: "Ask Emmitt."

Jason: "Haha, hey Lavar and I are having lunch tomorrow, you wanna swing by and say hello."

Troy: "Wawawhat...ah no thanks, ive got a nail appointment."