Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;397037]And the best part is that Campbell is ok with that decision, he's not the type to sit around and pout.[/quote]


how do you know that?

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

No apology necessary but I think that JC's had enough time to have an effective gameplan called. There has been a huge disparity between the games called with TC instead of JC under center. I am sure it's warranted to some extent but I really question whether or not it could have been a lot closer. Eh, I'm ambivalent I guess. As long as the team wearing burgundy and gold wins, I really don't care either way. But I do wonder if it will shake his confidence if JC is healthy and sits

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

JC is a team guy and a class act, I can't see him putting up a stink over this or it ruining his confidence in any way.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;397038]how do you know that?[/QUOTE]

Read this from JLC especially the question: On if he's still looking to return for the playoffs (if they make it):

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;397039][B]No apology necessary but I think that JC's had enough time to have an effective gameplan called.[/B] There has been a huge disparity between the games called with TC instead of JC under center. I am sure it's warranted to some extent but I really question whether or not it could have been a lot closer. Eh, I'm ambivalent I guess. As long as the team wearing burgundy and gold wins, I really don't care either way. But I do wonder if it will shake his confidence if JC is healthy and sits[/quote]

It's not like the offense was totally inept under JC.

I think the big difference between the two QBs right now is Collins' knowledge of the offense gives him a ton of confidence and there's no hesitation when he decides to throw the ball. And Collins isn't making that critical mistake that a young QB like Campbell tends to make.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;397040]JC is a team guy and a class act, I can't see him putting up a stink over this or it ruining his confidence in any way.[/quote]


I know in public he'd be fine with it, but it would have to destroy his confidence to be healthy and have the team not trust him in the big games. He's a competitor.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;397041]Read this from JLC especially the question: On if he's still looking to return for the playoffs (if they make it):

[URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/"]Redskins Insider[/URL][/quote]


see, I interpret that differently :

[QUOTE][FONT=Times New Roman,times,serif]The hardest part is sitting back watching all this. We're having a lot of fun right now as a team, we're winning, and you feel like you're an outsider looking in, watching.[/FONT][/QUOTE]


If he's having trouble watching now, can you imagine what he'll feel if he's healthy and is forced to watch....


Im probably jumping the gun, realistically, though... I don't think he's going to be healthy enough to return unless we go to the super bowl.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=canthetuna;397043]I know in public he'd be fine with it, but it would have to destroy his confidence to be healthy and have the team not trust him in the big games. He's a competitor.[/quote]

Destroy his confidence?

Doubt that.

It's not like he was benched due to performance. He got hurt, his backup comes in and plays great and helps guide the team to the playoffs. I'm sure he would be frustrated over not playing but at the same time I'm sure he would understand the rationale. Saying his confidence would be destroyed is stretching things a bit in my opinion.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

You forgot this part:

"The only thing I've got to do is just take it day-to-day and just see what happens, see how we can improve it and right now [B]we're winning [B]so that's the key[/B][/B]."

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

i can't see campbell playing anymore this season at all.when i was 14 or 15,i broke the same bone in my knee cap he did and it took me almost a full year to recover.back in those days,i played basketball everyday and ran a mile every other day too.i know that medical technology has advanced since way the hell back then,but you still have to heal!!!!

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

It looks like it will probably be a moot point. Doesn't sound like he is going to be 100% healthy in time to make it back. At the same time, we want this question to stick around as long as possible. It means we're still alive.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Collins, but only from the injury perspective. If JC could come back 100%, then he should get the start. I don't think that's possible, so Collins continues the ride.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Whoa. I'm shocked.

It's got to be Campbell, assuming he's close to full health. He played well this year prior to his injury. Three games of Todd Collins is not nearly enough to conclusively decide that he is a better QB than Jason Campbell at this point in his career.

Collins should keep playing until Campbell is healthy, but once Jason can handle the workload, you've got to play him.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Not sure what there is to be shocked about.

TC is currently sporting a QB rating of 107.0, he's helped us win 3 games, and he's hit on at least 75% of his passes in 2 of those 3 wins.

What's so shocking about sticking with the hot hand??

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Ask Vegas what they think.......................NEVER do ANYTHING to change your good run. It's his to lose for this season

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Read the latest from JLC: [url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;397064]Not sure what there is to be shocked about.

TC is currently sporting a QB rating of 107.0, he's helped us win 3 games, and he's hit on at least 75% of his passes in 2 of those 3 wins.

What's so shocking about sticking with the hot hand??[/quote]Because hot hands won't stay hot forever.

We are going to be fine with Collins in the short term, but Campbell is (theoretically) the best QB on this team. If the best QB on the team is healthy, he's got to be in there.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;397071][B]Because hot hands won't stay hot forever.[/B]

We are going to be fine with Collins in the short term, but Campbell is (theoretically) the best QB on this team. If the best QB on the team is healthy, he's got to be in there.[/quote]

True, but you ride it until it cools off.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=canthetuna;397016].



so... sellers should just stay on the sidelines, too? And hey, why don't we cut rocky, jansen, rogers, too. we're winning without them.

wtf??? am I really the only one who does't see this as an issue. Collin's pass protection played a huge role in his success. I'm watching the game right now and there are several instances where he has over 3 seconds with an 8 man rush to throw the ball... that's freaking amazing... and the cooley touchdown he held it for around 5 seconds...[/quote]

I guess you're the only one because from what I have seen of Collins he is on the money with the ball and he hasn't turned the ball over...can't say the same about JC this season (over throws and INTs). Until Collins screws up he deserves the chance to play regardless of how the o-line play has been.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=saden1;397076]I guess you're the only one because from what I have seen of Collins he is on the money with the ball and he hasn't turned the ball over...can't say the same about JC this season (over throws and INTs). Until Collins screws up he deserves the chance to play regardless of how the o-line play has been.[/quote]


okay, so why would you not let collins start next season as well? that's what i don't understand. If you truly feel you have a better qb, start him...

Are you saying that you start collins next year over a healthy JC?


I guess I'm struggling with the whole idea that these games are too important for a [I]healthy [/I]JC, but he's our guy... and what kind of message that sends to him, or to Collins for that matter?

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=canthetuna;397081]okay, so why would you not let collins start next season as well? that's what i don't understand. If you truly feel you have a better qb, start him...

Are you saying that you start collins next year over a healthy JC?


I guess I'm struggling with the whole idea that these games are too important for a [I]healthy [/I]JC, but he's our guy... and what kind of message that sends to him, or to Collins for that matter?[/quote]

If I'm not mistaken Jason Campbell has to earn the job...if he can't beat out Collins by all means start Collins next year too!

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=saden1;397084]If I'm not mistaken Jason Campbell has to earn the job...if he can't beat out Collins by all means start Collins next year too![/quote]


again, the guy wasn't benched... he got hurt. So next year we re-sign collins and have an open QB competition in camp if Collins finishes stong?

Im just sick of having QB issues in this franchise, and if we're going to stick with Campbell and are counting on him to be the franchise QB, he needs to be in there. You don't bench your healthy starter in the important games, and if we or the team lacks that confidence, why wouldn't we persue a guy like McNabb?

I would take it as a vote of no confidence in JC.... its not like Collins is out there putting up 400 yards and 4tds/game, and yesterday he played against one of the worst pass D's in the league... if you're going to throw out the Giants game because of the wind you have to also consider the opponent yesterday.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Best player on the field, always! As for McNabb, he is way past his prime! Why bring in a guy who doesn't know the offense when you have one that does and has played extremely well?

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

No doubt it has to be Collins, he's the hot hand right now.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=canthetuna;397081]okay, so why would you not let collins start next season as well? that's what i don't understand. If you truly feel you have a better qb, start him...

Are you saying that you start collins next year over a healthy JC?


I guess I'm struggling with the whole idea that these games are too important for a [I]healthy [/I]JC, but he's our guy... and what kind of message that sends to him, or to Collins for that matter?[/quote]

This year has nothing to do with next year. Right now ride the hot hand in Collins and Campbell is unquestionably the starter next year. Hell, it's probably a long shot that Campbell would be healthy enough to return soon anyway, so this whole debate is probably all for nothing.

How about this scenario. Just pure hypothetical of course, what if Collins got the team to the NFC Championship and then Campbell was declared 100% ready to go. Would you still make the switch at that point?

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

This Collins vs. Campbell debate is clearly explained by JLC:

TODD COLLINS - Dude is balling right now. No two ways about it. Jason Campbell is The Future and anyone who even thinks there should be a QB conundrum next season is crazy, to me, but having Collins as Mr. Present ain't bad and Todd has played his way into a hefty payday as a back-up beyond this season. The Skins are going to have to ante up to keep him as an unrestricted free agent.

Save for the fumble on the quick snap to beat that replay challenge, he was excellent. 22-for-29 for 254 with 2 TDs and no picks doesn't leave much to nitpick. Timing was off on some throws, but he has a 107 rating in three games for goodness sake, including that wind-swept night in Hoffa's swamp.

Collins had a pass of 20 yards or longer in each quarter, and the offense did a nice job picking on kid corner Marcus McCauley - who I think is going to be a good one - whether he was lined up on Reche Caldwell (nice game by him, some huge third-down catches) or Santana Moss.. Again, pressed for time before this flight to meet up with my family near Cooperstown takes off (if it does take off), but you guys tell me the last time that's happened around here. The Skins have 7 passes of 30 yards or more in 2-plus games since Collins replaced JC against the Bears. They had 11 such passes in the first 12 games.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Collins.....If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

The declared starter should never be benched because of injury. But then again, I can't ignore what Tom 'Hot Hand' Brady did taking over permanently for a recovered Bledsoe and won it all.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Stick with what is working. I love campbell. I'm not saying next year we should start collins but this year it is no doubt. Anyways campbell would not have been playing for a few weeks so his play won't be that good. Not everyone can take a 10 year break and come in and win a game.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;397120]
How about this scenario. Just pure hypothetical of course, what if Collins got the team to the NFC Championship and then Campbell was declared 100% ready to go. Would you still make the switch at that point?[/quote]


If I were making the call


at 100%... the only thing that would keep Campbell out of any playoff game or superbowl would be if Collins was throwing for 300+ yards and 3tds in the last couple of games. Campbell was a huge part of getting us this far, and I couldn't forget that. He's done the things the coaches wanted to see him do and everyone says he's worked the hardest of anyone on the team. If I'm coaching I reward that by giving him the chance. He's done what was asked of him and beyond to EARN that starting job already... thats why he's the starter.

If it's my team he doesn't lose it because of an injury. Unless he walks into the game and throws three picks in the first half I'd stay committed to him, too.

I love what Collins is doing right now, and I don't want to take anything away from it and appreciate it to the point where it pains me to detract from his accomplishments through this conversation, but I can't help but be guarded about crowning him our savior just yet... There's got to be a reason he hasn't started in 10 years. If he were that good someone would've seen it before he was 36 and the guy would've landed a starting job somewhere by now.


Let me play devil's advocate.... Its your team Matty, and we're going into the NFC championship game. Lets speculate that Collins hasn't been giong berserk, but playing well and managing the games well.

How do you explain to a perfectly healthy JC that He's not going to play, but not to get discouraged because he's our future QB without having him question your loyalty to him... Why would he go out next year and lay it on the line for you... stand in the pocket and take the hits to deliver the ball.... work so hard in the offseason and take his game to the next level, if once at the pinnacle, you're willing to jerk the rug out from under him...

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

If Collins keeps playing at his current pace I'm sure even Campbell could understand the decision to keep rolling with the hot hand. If he can't handle that sort of decision he's not cut out for playing QB in this league.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Opening Day next year, not a doubt in my mind our starter is and should be Jason Campbell....

But if we win another game with Collins, there is no way you can mess with that right now. If we somehow lose and still get in, than I want Jason to play, but you can't take out a qb whos won four straight (if we win Sun) over a QB that had previously lost 4 straight....Campbell will be and probaboly is the better quarterback, but I'm a huge chemistry guy, and this offense has it right now.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Gmanc711;397187]Opening Day next year, not a doubt in my mind our starter is and should be Jason Campbell....

But if we win another game with Collins, there is no way you can mess with that right now. If we somehow lose and still get in, than I want Jason to play, [B]but you can't take out a qb whos won four straight (if we win Sun) over a QB that had previously lost 4 straight[/B]....Campbell will be and probaboly is the better quarterback, but I'm a huge chemistry guy, and this offense has it right now.[/quote]

Great point right there

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=canthetuna;397016]so... sellers should just stay on the sidelines, too? And hey, why don't we cut rocky, jansen, rogers, too. we're winning without them.

wtf??? am I really the only one who does't see this as an issue. Collin's pass protection played a huge role in his success. I'm watching the game right now and there are several instances where he has over 3 seconds with an 8 man rush to throw the ball... that's freaking amazing... and the cooley touchdown he held it for around 5 seconds...[/quote]
Most of the other guys have made all the good points for keeping Collins in, but here's my two cents; First as Matty said, this is all probably a moot discussion. Based on the JLC article Campbell hasn't done ANY running yet, even on a treadmill. Let's say the docs clear him to play (there is no way he is 100% in two weeks when he hasn't even stepped on a treadmill yet), are you going to risk permanent damage to the health of your franchise QB, when you have a back-up QB who is playing very well and the team is winning?

You mention "hurting Campbell's confidence" in a couple of posts, by not playing him. Let's say Campbell plays and his knee gets hurt again and requires 6 - 8 months of rehab, I'm pretty sure that will hurt his confidence and performance a lot worse than not starting a playoff game when his back-up has been winning and improbably lead the team to the playoffs. Again, talking about confidence, what if Campbell comes back in the playoffs, turns the ball over 2-3 times and the Skins go home. Not a great confidence booster either.

What Collins brings right now is confidence to the offense that he can execute and not make critical game-changing mistakes. It also brings confidence to the defense because they can be more aggressive and not be as concerned with possibly giving up a score that we can't respond to because the offense has struggled or is turning the ball over.

You mention the improved pass-pro and Collins having 3+ seconds with an 8-man rush. You still need to make the correct read and make an accurate throw with the heat on. I noticed Collins stayed calm in the pocket under a heavy rush, made good reads and threw accurate passes. He threw slants, outs and curls very well. Campbell has struggled with accuracy on slants and some outs this year, many times throwing low. The TD to Cooley, pass-pro was very good, but Collins also read the D perfectly, saw Cover-2, looked off the Safety to the outside and hit Cooley down the middle. I would like to think Campbell would make this play, but he is still basically a rookie as far as playing time goes and most 1-2nd year QBs probably don't make that play.

As far as cutting the other guys that are out, QB is a unique position and has to be handled differently than any other position on the field. Campbell will get to where Collins is in understanding the system, making the right plays, and eliminating the mistakes and the only way is through playing experience. Campbell is the guy in Week 1 2008 but right now Collins is hot, the team is winning, and Collins should continue to start. Collins is a back-up QB, he understands his role and right now is performing it very well.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Collins is the captain of this ship for the rest of this year. WELL EARNED!

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

I say if JC is 100% you go with him. That said there is 0% chance he is ready by the first round of the playoofss if he isn't even running right now. It just isn't going to happen. Collins gets the nod until JC is able to take full control in my mind. Let's hope it is a problem we have to deal with.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

because JC knows how pouting worked for Jay Schroeder.

[QUOTE=canthetuna;397038]how do you know that?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;397037]And the best part is that Campbell is ok with that decision, he's not the type to sit around and pout.[/QUOTE]

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

This is tough for me. I love JC, and he is our future, but I guess he really isn't our now. Our now has Collins at 3-0 (2-0 as an official starter). You have to play the hot hand. I don't think anyone doubts JC's ablility, but if it ain't broke don't fix it.

If we beat Dallas on Sunday and Jason is "ready" for to play, I just don't think we can take the chance. If ain't broke don't fix it, right? Stupid cliche but true in this case. JC is coming of a leg injury, so who knows how his conditioning will be? His timing will be off after the offense has gotten used to Todd for what will be over a month should the time come... I say you stick with what's working. No discredit to JC's work this year, but Todd is the guy right now. It's pretty obvious if you ask me. Turnovers are WAY down since he took the reins.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Collins=Now, Campbell=Future

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

when i first stated the jc needed to be sat down. that he wasn't ready to lead this team, and collins should be starting who's been in al saunders offence for the past 6 or 7 years should be starting i was called everything from drunk to crazy!!! a few of you even stated that you weren't going to watch the games after jc got hurt. i want to give smootsmack a thank you for sincerly asking my opinion and not just try to shut me out by telling me to "layoff the sauce"