Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

Why waste the time and click on the link? Dont want to chance more money be made by clicking on the link through advetising. The less we click and read this bozo's stuff the less likely he will have a job.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=irish;404820]I agree.

Over the course of his career Gibbs was great for the Skins. He was coach the only time they have had success.

As for this second go around, Gibbs was less than ordinary, and a disappointment. In the end it did not turn out how any of us would have expected.[/quote]


Let me ask you this... why do we have to throw out his first tenure accomplishments in our assessments and reactions to this article? If you ignored his first stint, his second would not be a huge disappointment. The only disappointment was that his second stint didn't measure up to his first.

The funny thing is, that if we had brought in a big name college coach after spurrier, and had the same record the last 4 years a great fewer people would call him less than ordinary.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

Move on or move out!

While I think the article was not that bad--there was a tenor in it that displayed a lack of tact. He did have a bit of "look at me I proved my point--remember my article from 4 years ago" approach and that he is somehow now vindicated for his previous opinions. He has that right. We have the right to not read his stuff.

I don't think the media has it "in" for this team. Sports columnists are allowed to opine and we are allowed to agree/disagree. If you think he has a personal gripe with the Skins--read his columns with a grain of salt (like I do). So take a deep breath guys and if you think Lenny P's article is heretical--take a cue from our own revered coach and demonstrate some class by letting this predictable column roll off your back.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

I was wondering how long it would take you to come join daseal on the 'LennyP is god' bandwagon. Yeah fat len might have sprinkled a few positive notes in there, but thats juty so he can say, 'see I dont hate Gibbs or the Skins', but we all know he CANNOT stand the Redskins. He didnt waste anytime confirming his dislike and disrespect for the organization. I just dont understand how you can agree with the things this piece of sh!t writes.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

Yeah, the problem is that Lenny assumes Gibbs inherited a winning team, which he didn't. He inherited a team that had been in disarray for over a decade, with only one playoff appearance over 12 years or whatever. Thus, to look at his record as an indicator of his success is just plain dumb. Would we say Romeo Crennel has failed, even though his record is well under 500 for his tenure? Of course not. What matters when taking over a perrenial loser is getting them into the playoffs and building a solid winning infrastructure. Gibbs has done that.

F off Lenny. Read Clayton and Boswell's articles for some notes on how to properly address the retirement of a legend.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;404756]I know you guys don't like it, but has Joe Gibbs been anything more than ordinary in his second stint? Defend your answer. Don't just call him a prick, but why should the public view a coach with a losing record in his second stint be deemed some sort of deity around the NFL. No one is taking away from what Gibbs did in the 80s and 90s, but prove to me using facts WHY Joe Gibbs should be seen as anything but an ordinary NFL coach in his second stint. You may not like the article, but that doesn't make it false, or means he 'hates' the Redskins. Every team thinks the media hates them.[/QUOTE]

No other coach could've gotten this team through the rough times we've had this year other than Joe Gibbs. The fact that he got the team through the death of Sean Taylor, the injuries, and still got his team winning four in a row to make it to the playoffs is something no ordinary Joe could've done. Also the fact that the team was a disaster when he took over, and now it's in the position to start challenging for a playoff spot on a consistent basis is another testement to the man.

And one more thing, what other coach in this league could've actually taught Daniel Snyder patience like Joe Gibbs? Nobody. The man is and will always be a legend according to his first AND second tenure.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;404827]Let me ask you this... why do we have to throw out his first tenure accomplishments in our assessments and reactions to this article? If you ignored his first stint, his second would not be a huge disappointment. The only disappointment was that his second stint didn't measure up to his first.

The funny thing is, that if we had brought in a big name college coach after spurrier, and had the same record the last 4 years a great fewer people would call him less than ordinary.[/QUOTE]

That's right but that's what happens when you create a huge legacy. It creates huge expectations. Had he not had that great legacy of success he would not have been rehired.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=irish;404850]That's right but that's what happens when you create a huge legacy. It creates huge expectations. Had he not had that great legacy of success he would not have been rehired.[/quote]

And Gibbs himself said at his press conference 4 years ago, that the past is no guarntee for success in the future. He told us and the players that he would try as hard as he could to get this team turned around. I for one believe he has done that.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P;404752]Isn't his fatass an Eagles fan? That would make sense.[/QUOTE]

and how many rings do they have:) oh thats right none.
i don,t worry about worthless reads like lenny. joe gibbs is the franchise in my book. and his records and rings proves that along with the record,and to think he was able to pick this team up off the ground speaks for itself too.

whatever lenny.if it makes you feel better print it.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=irish;404850]That's right but that's what happens when you create a huge legacy. It creates huge expectations. Had he not had that great legacy of success he would not have been rehired.[/QUOTE]

It took u longer then i thought it would to come join ur buddy. ANYWAYS so ur a Redskins fan but yet ur backing up a guy who is saying negative things about ur hall of fame coach? i'm sorry i just can't believe after all that Gibbs has done for ur team u would be glad he's leaving and even worst agreeing with people who talk trash about him. I've been a Packers fan since i was a little kid and I would stand behind Brett Favre even if he was playing like crap and in his 60's because i aprreciate everything he's done for my team and to me he deserves the respect just like i think Gibbs deserves it after everything he's done. U should be happy there was someone there to hold ur team together this year after the Taylor tragedy and all he's done instead of coming on here talking bout u agree with some fat f#%k talking shit about him......

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

I always thought we should pay Lenny P...pay him no mind, that is.

Clearly the man has major self-esteem issues. All of his life he's had to hear nothing but wonderful praise about how great a man Joe Gibbs is. All of this praise does is reinforce his own negative self-image, thus causing Lenny to lash out at the image that cause him so much pain. Lenny needs a hug from someone and to be told that "it's not his fault."

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

why does this guy speak or write... has he ever been a NFL Coach, I would like to see this lard-ass coach when he is 66 years old ... if he doesnt die from a donut overdose by then... fat pig

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[url=http://beta.profootballtalk.com/2008/01/08/len-holds-an-impressive-grudge/]ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

Florio says it more tactfully than I am capable of doing.

Playoff berths between 1.0 and 2.0? 1 in 13 years.

Playoff berths during 2.0? 2 in four years.

So, basically, yeah. Gibbs made this team and franchise better. He also set standards for professionalism that were forgotten here. Like some of the naysayers, I really wanted Spurrier to succeed. But when the OBC started an end of the season presser by saying (paraphrasing) "5-11 - gotta do better than that. Any questions?" we all should have known that this team's standards were too low. The 2006 Redskins had the same record, and there was accountability, there was a firm stated desire for improvement, and there was hope - hope that was delivered upon with a playoff appearance despite remarkable adversity.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=BrudLee;404880] But when the OBC started an end of the season presser by saying (paraphrasing) "5-11 - gotta do better than that. Any questions?" we all should have known that this team's standards were too low. [/quote]


do you remember the one after game presser when we had been beaten pretty handily, when all he would say is how well he thought we punted that day?? lmao what a [I][B]buffon[/B][/I]

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

Daseal and Irish,

Did "Gibbs II" meet our expectations? No, we all thought Gibbs' mere presence at Redskins Park would restore our franchise to greatness. In that regard, our expectations were too high. We expected Gibbs to step in after an 12 year hiatus and take a disorganized franchise with a weak roster and, overnight, to bring us Super Bowl berths in short order.

Is Gibbs II's record, when viewed in a vacuum without regard to history, satisfactory? No, any time your team posts a losing record over the course of 4 years fans will be upset.

HOWEVER, we should not look at Gibbs' record in a vacuum. As has been pointed out many times, Gibbs took a joke of a team with a pretty sad roster (Ramsey was our #1 QB, Trung Canidate was our #1 TE, Zeron Flemister was our #1 TE, etc.) and restored it to respectability. That is quite a feat. Gibbs took us to two playoff appearances in four years. Gibbs won a playoff game. Gibbs made us a contender. Gibbs brought us a good staff. Gibbs brought us a roster filled with guys like Chris Cooley, Laron Landry, Carlos Rogers, Rocky McIntosh, the departed Sean Taylor, Jason Campbell, Clinton Portis and the list goes on.

Despite Gibbs' recent retirement, the final chapter on Gibbs II has not been written. Wait a year or two, see how our younger players develop, see how this team fares with Gibbs' legacy, and then judge him. But, given the general state of things at Redskins Park, the future, IMO, looks brighter than it has in decades.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

Nicely put. And I agree that what we wanted was 4 superbowls in his first 5 years, but hey Ill take 2 playoffs, a real good roster, coaching staff and respect back to the organization moving into the future.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote]Daseal and Irish,

Did "Gibbs II" meet our expectations? No, we all thought Gibbs' mere presence at Redskins Park would restore our franchise to greatness. In that regard, our expectations were too high. We expected Gibbs to step in after an 12 year hiatus and take a disorganized franchise with a weak roster and, overnight, to bring us Super Bowl berths in short order.

Is Gibbs II's record, when viewed in a vacuum without regard to history, satisfactory? No, any time your team posts a losing record over the course of 4 years fans will be upset.

HOWEVER, we should not look at Gibbs' record in a vacuum. As has been pointed out many times, Gibbs took a joke of a team with a pretty sad roster (Ramsey was our #1 QB, Trung Canidate was our #1 TE, Zeron Flemister was our #1 TE, etc.) and restored it to respectability. That is quite a feat. Gibbs took us to two playoff appearances in four years. Gibbs won a playoff game. Gibbs made us a contender. Gibbs brought us a good staff. Gibbs brought us a roster filled with guys like Chris Cooley, Laron Landry, Carlos Rogers, Rocky McIntosh, the departed Sean Taylor, Jason Campbell, Clinton Portis and the list goes on.

Despite Gibbs' recent retirement, the final chapter on Gibbs II has not been written. Wait a year or two, see how our younger players develop, see how this team fares with Gibbs' legacy, and then judge him. But, given the general state of things at Redskins Park, the future, IMO, looks brighter than it has in decades.[/quote]

Everything you've stressed here I agree with. You're saying Gibbs brought in some stability, coaching staff, and players -- no doubt about that,I can't think of someone who will contest that. My issue has been with the Xs and Os. All I was trying to say is that this article really wasn't that bad -- Gibbs had some problems in his tenure the 2nd time around when it came to the coaching aspect, why can't we just recognize that instead of fighting to hide it. He'll be the first person to admit he's far from infallible.

In short: Joe Gibbs was great as a team president, but his second stint lacked in the Xs and Os, the article I feel more or less says that he was a great leader of men, but not necessarily equipped to coach in the modern day NFL. People seem to act as if Gibbs could never do wrong, and that becomes annoying. He was great at leading and president type of activities, but he wasn't the same coaching powerhouse he was in the 80s and 90s.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=sancho2613;404866]It took u longer then i thought it would to come join ur buddy. ANYWAYS so ur a Redskins fan but yet ur backing up a guy who is saying negative things about ur hall of fame coach? i'm sorry i just can't believe after all that Gibbs has done for ur team u would be glad he's leaving and even worst agreeing with people who talk trash about him. I've been a Packers fan since i was a little kid and I would stand behind Brett Favre even if he was playing like crap and in his 60's because i aprreciate everything he's done for my team and to me he deserves the respect just like i think Gibbs deserves it after everything he's done. U should be happy there was someone there to hold ur team together this year after the Taylor tragedy and all he's done instead of coming on here talking bout u agree with some fat f#%k talking shit about him......[/quote]

Hey Im rooting for you guys and for Farve to go all the way. And yeah isnt it kinda odd the way these guys see the whole Gibbs situation. You know its pretty sad when someone whos been on this board for awhile, ask the other members to explain line by line why fat lennys article is disrespectful and incorrect and why we think Gibbs is such a great leader and coach. I feel like if someone cant see for themselves, well then I dont know what me or anyone else here can do.
So anyway good luck this weekend, i hope they kill the seahawgs!!

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;404948]Everything you've stressed here I agree with. You're saying Gibbs brought in some stability, coaching staff, and players -- no doubt about that,I can't think of someone who will contest that. My issue has been with the Xs and Os. All I was trying to say is that this article really wasn't that bad -- Gibbs had some problems in his tenure the 2nd time around when it came to the coaching aspect, why can't we just recognize that instead of fighting to hide it. He'll be the first person to admit he's far from infallible.

In short: Joe Gibbs was great as a team president, but his second stint lacked in the Xs and Os, the article I feel more or less says that he was a great leader of men, but not necessarily equipped to coach in the modern day NFL. People seem to act as if Gibbs could never do wrong, and that becomes annoying. He was great at leading and president type of activities, but he wasn't the same coaching powerhouse he was in the 80s and 90s.[/QUOTE]

The article says he doesn't understand the needs and perspectives of today's players, that he doesn't understand the salary cap. It doesn't even touch on his Xs and Os abilities. It's a terrible, spiteful article written by a terrible, spiteful man

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=SmootSmack;404951]The article says he doesn't understand the needs and perspectives of today's players, that he doesn't understand the salary cap. It doesn't even touch on his Xs and Os abilities. It's a terrible, spiteful article written by a terrible, spiteful man[/quote]
Amen. and goodnight

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;404951]The article says he doesn't understand the needs and perspectives of today's players, that he doesn't understand the salary cap. It doesn't even touch on his Xs and Os abilities. It's a terrible, spiteful article written by a terrible, spiteful man[/QUOTE]


cant you get in trouble for talking like that about a fellow ESPN employee? lol
sounds like you know len personally :laughing2

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

What? Who edited my post? Len P. is a wonderful beacon of professionalism :)

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;404797]I'll never understand that take. Luck? What luck is involved with 4 and 5 game winning streaks?? In this streak and in '05, the Skins won those games pretty convincingly. I'm really at a loss to figure out where luck was involved.[/quote]The exact same luck that causes us to lose three and four games leading up to those win streaks in those seasons respectively.

Daseal forgot to mention that though.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;404964]The exact same luck that causes us to lose three and four games leading up to those win streaks in those seasons respectively.

Daseal forgot to mention that though.[/QUOTE]

Game. Set. Match.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

Hey mods, we suspend or permanently ban stupid people from the forum why can't we ban Len Pastabelly from the forum? Is his opinion worthy of discussion?

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=saden1;404976]Hey mods, we suspend or permanently ban stupid people from the forum why can't we ban Len Pastabelly from the forum? Is his opinion worthy of discussion?[/QUOTE]

It is kind of surprising we have a whole thread dedicated to his column, but not one on John Clayton's

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=SmootSmack;404977]It is kind of surprising we have a whole thread dedicated to his column, but not one on John Clayton's[/quote]

You know? I wish vBulletin allowed me to filter out threads/posts with his name on it.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=sancho2613;404866]It took u longer then i thought it would to come join ur buddy. ANYWAYS so ur a Redskins fan but yet ur backing up a guy who is saying negative things about ur hall of fame coach? i'm sorry i just can't believe after all that Gibbs has done for ur team u would be glad he's leaving and even worst agreeing with people who talk trash about him. I've been a Packers fan since i was a little kid and I would stand behind Brett Favre even if he was playing like crap and in his 60's because i aprreciate everything he's done for my team and to me he deserves the respect just like i think Gibbs deserves it after everything he's done. U should be happy there was someone there to hold ur team together this year after the Taylor tragedy and all he's done instead of coming on here talking bout u agree with some fat f#%k talking shit about him......[/QUOTE]

I dont recall saying I was glad to see him go in this thread. I said over his entire career he was a great coach but Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. There is no way anyone on this board would have thought that after 4 years Gibbs 2.0 would leave with a losing record. Its disappointing.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=irish;405001]I dont recall saying I was glad to see him go in this thread. I said over his entire career he was a great coach but Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. There is no way anyone on this board would have thought that after 4 years Gibbs 2.0 would leave with a losing record. Its disappointing.[/quote]Looking at the onfield performance, I can't disagree with that. Getting to the playoffs is fun, but let's be honest, four years ago we had visions of Super Bowls, and the Skins haven't been close to that level.

Looking at the bigger picture, Gibbs solidified the QB position for the next 8-10 years if Campbell's progression continues. Improve play on both lines and I see the Skins taking that next step.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

Take the article for what it is and move on. There really is no need to dwell on backhanded compliments (which is how I read them) and "I told you so"s. Pastabelly gets paid to write his opinion about football, and while most people do not agree with his opinion, he's entitled to it. It obviously pays the bills because he's still writing for ESPN.

The only thing I don't fully agree with in his article is his lack of gumption in saying "Thankfully, for Gibbs, the Hall of Fame is a lifetime fraternity from which a member can't be expelled." This is completely asinine and unnecessary. Opinion or not, Gibbs' overall track record is quite good. 10 playoff appearances in 16 years (17-7 record, 71% winning percentage), 4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 Lombardi Trophies, 154-94 regular season record (62% winning percentage). Just because Gibbs was not able to live up to anyone's expectations in his 2nd tenure does not mean he still isn't a Hall of Fame coach.

Agree or disagree with records, players, management, etc., the one thing Joe was able to do was right the ship and get the franchise back it's swagger. A swagger that will continue under the next coach and into the future.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;405052]Take the article for what it is and move on. There really is no need to dwell on backhanded compliments (which is how I read them) and "I told you so"s. Pastabelly gets paid to write his opinion about football, and while most people do not agree with his opinion, he's entitled to it. It obviously pays the bills because he's still writing for ESPN.

The only thing I don't fully agree with in his article is his lack of gumption in saying [B]"Thankfully, for Gibbs, the Hall of Fame is a lifetime fraternity from which a member can't be expelled."[/B] This is completely asinine and unnecessary. Opinion or not, Gibbs' overall track record is quite good. 10 playoff appearances in 16 years (17-7 record, 71% winning percentage), 4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 Lombardi Trophies, 154-94 regular season record (62% winning percentage). Just because Gibbs was not able to live up to anyone's expectations in his 2nd tenure does not mean he still isn't a Hall of Fame coach.

Agree or disagree with records, players, management, etc., the one thing Joe was able to do was right the ship and get the franchise back it's swagger. A swagger that will continue under the next coach and into the future.[/quote]

That comment rubbed me wrong too.

Even with the past 4 years, you can't deny that his overall resume is Hall worthy. In fact it's not even up for debate. And it's just stupid to try to argue otherwise.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;404977]It is kind of surprising we have a whole thread dedicated to his column, but not one on John Clayton's[/QUOTE]

It's unfair, since John Clayton is so even handed and much more interesting, but Lenny's article made my blood boil.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=irish;405001]I dont recall saying I was glad to see him go in this thread. I said over his entire career he was a great coach but Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. There is no way anyone on this board would have thought that after 4 years Gibbs 2.0 would leave with a losing record. Its disappointing.[/QUOTE]

you didn't say it in this one but you did say it in a different thread but that's another story.... I just can't understand why anyone would think it's a disapointment? You make it seem like the Skins had winning records the few years before he came back and then he got here and ruined it. You have seen the skins records on the few years before he came back right? They had only one winning record in the previous 7 years before he came back. He had his team playing hard for him and if you would of had your wish i believe you would of had a lot worst of a season. I just can't understand why you would want another coach knowing that the team would play harder and have a lot more respect for the hall of fame coach you already had. It almost seems like wishing you had a crappier team by having a coach that wouldn't of been able to pull through the hard times that Gibbs had to go through. Sorry just can't understand.... 1 playoff berth in 12 years when he's gone or 2 in 4 years? I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to figure out if you were better off with him or with out him....

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

I know people here feel Len has a personal thing against the skins, but honestly, what did he say in that article that is not true. He complimented Gibbs, but he also told the truth about Gibbs 2. He didn't win consistantly, which is why Snyder brought him back. He made mistakes, which all coaches do and all coaches get blasted by the media for. Nothing in this article is w2ay off base. Washington has been a bad place for coaches. lets face it, Snyder and the organization ask for it every year. They pay big money to players, and to coaches. And we are basically average. With the money we spend for STAR players and STAR coaches you and the media love to see those teams fail. Look at the Yankees, dont they get crap all season long when they are hovering around 500, and not making playoffs with the most expensive payroll in history and setting new marks for that every year. this is what being a Yankees fan is about (which I am not) they have to deal with it year in and year out. Same with the Redskins. We set marks for payroll(players and coaches) every year. media loves those kinds of stories. Dont you think if NE would have laid an egg with all their high prices FA this year, they would be the whipping boys for the media. I have said year after year after year to everyone out here, the way to shut up the pastabelly's of the media world is to win. and win every year. and win playoff games, division titles, superbowls.

Danny asks for this stuff by spending money, sometimes unwisely, and never getting a front office structure that in condusive to winning consistantly. all the execs around the league and experts have been harping on this since he bought the team. And until he wins a superbowl with the current structure, that will be part of the unrelenting bashing we receive every year.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

Just an observation: Why do I get the impression that some people don't even both reading through threads before posting... and instead just read the initial post and respond.

Is it just me?

Am I crazy?

Sometimes it seems that people jump in to the conversation midstream and start asking the same questions that have pretty much already been addressed.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;405158]Danny asks for this stuff by spending money, sometimes unwisely, and never getting a front office structure that in condusive to winning consistantly. all the execs around the league and experts have been harping on this since he bought the team. And until he wins a superbowl with the current structure, that will be part of the unrelenting bashing we receive every year.[/QUOTE]

Owners of several other teams (e.g., Dallas' Jerry Jones) "interfere" with personnel decisions and they seem to be doing well. IMO, the idea that all our woes are attributable to front office mismanagement is erroneous. IMO, there are many, many reasons why this franchise has struggled in recent years. First and foremost, we have not had an experienced, franchise QB since ........ hmmm. This is a QB-driven league, we haven't had a franchise QB in quite some time. Second, we've had some awful coaching. If you don't like Gibbs, how do you feel about Norv and Spurrier? Third, injuries and death derailed what was likely a deep playoff run in 2007. The list goes on.

It's nice and all to attribute our struggles to one single source, or, better yet, one single person. While it's convenient to lay the blame for our woes at the feet of a single goat, I'm not buying.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=SouperMeister;405029]Looking at the onfield performance, I can't disagree with that. Getting to the playoffs is fun, but let's be honest, four years ago we had visions of Super Bowls, and the Skins haven't been close to that level.

Looking at the bigger picture, Gibbs solidified the QB position for the next 8-10 years if Campbell's progression continues. Improve play on both lines and I see the Skins taking that next step.[/quote]
Well as to date JC has not shown me enough to say he has solidified the QB position. In fact his progression was going the other way with some of the way we lost ball games. I have not thrown the towel in on JC but he had not shown me enough to say he is our answer at QB for another 8 to 10 years. If he has shown you enough to say that your standards for QB's may be a bit low.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;405169]Well as to date JC has not shown me enough to say he has solidified the QB position. In fact his progression was going the other way with some of the way we lost ball games. I have not thrown the towel in on JC but he had not shown me enough to say he is our answer at QB for another 8 to 10 years. If he has shown you enough to say that your standards for QB's may be a bit low.[/QUOTE]

No, he hasn't yet solidified his position. However, he has shown more promise in his 20 starts (which amounts to just 1.25 seasons) than any QB in the Snyder era has shown. There's certainly cause to be optimistic.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405166]Owners of several other teams (e.g., Dallas' Jerry Jones) "interfere" with personnel decisions and they seem to be doing well. IMO, the idea that all our woes are attributable to front office mismanagement is erroneous. IMO, there are many, many reasons why this franchise has struggled in recent years. First and foremost, we have not had an experienced, franchise QB since ........ hmmm. This is a QB-driven league, we haven't had a franchise QB in quite some time. Second, we've had some awful coaching. If you don't like Gibbs, how do you feel about Norv and Spurrier? Third, injuries and death derailed what was likely a deep playoff run in 2007. The list goes on.

It's nice and all to attribute our struggles to one single source, or, better yet, one single person. While it's convenient to lay the blame for our woes at the feet of a single goat, I'm not buying.[/quote]


In no way am I saying Snyder is the reason for all of our struggles. I was responding to the article and the bashing we receive through the media year in and year out. My point was we will continue to get bashed by our front office structure and tendencies for spending. I really dont know what has been the issue for this franchise not winning consistantly. to me, its all of the above. Front office moves, with coaches and personel. the swing of coaches in and out of the door (until Gibbs) The constant roster turnover, the differnce in philosophies in terms of the players we have with the philosophies of coaches, never really getting on the same page. And lastly, the players that were brought in on a whim. some of them were bad moves, some good.I think we are going in the right direction with the guys here, most importantly the attitudes of the current roster. They are a family, the work hard and care for everyone on this team. Character as joe says is #1, and we have that now. But when it comes to the critisism, it comes from the top, that is where everyone in the media starts, especially during the offseason after a disappointing finish.
I have defended snyder a ton when it comes to his passion for this franchise. I know of no other owner who puts everything he has into a team, and lives and dies when we win or lose. Snyder to me is a FAN first, then an owner and in some cases that hurts him, some it helps. You could see the hurt yesterday during that press conference, how sad and disappointed he was that Joe was leaving. That is the FAN side of Dan more than the owner. He genuinly loved Gibbs as a person, and a coach and as Pastabelly put it, his boyhood idol.
I hope this front office makes the right choice in finding a head coach, and he is currently in the building, getting support from Gibbs, and more importantly, the players. GW!!

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=irish;405001]I dont recall saying I was glad to see him go in this thread. I said over his entire career he was a great coach but Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. There is no way anyone on this board would have thought that after 4 years Gibbs 2.0 would leave with a losing record. Its disappointing.[/QUOTE]

Disappointment is a personal emotion and is completely dependent on the circumstances and your expectations.

Looking back, I am not the least bit disappointed in Gibbs 2.0. Could it have been better? Sure. Like someone else said though, we have improved substantially.