Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

One thing I will give Snyder credit for is that he seems to be hashing out the plans for the next Head coach very meticulously. By the end of the process he'll have interviewed at least four guys for the job, and Williams alone has undergone four interviews already. Not to mention the epic length of the interviews.

Like most others I hope that in the end he sticks to his word and hires Williams for the sake of continuity, but it is refreshing to see the eager young owner take the time to ensure that whatever decision is made it is the right one. It's a nice change from some of his previous knee-jerk reactions. Hopefully this is a sign of what is to come in terms of all personnel decisions.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;408425]Why do we need a GM? Why have we have only drafted 2 Pro Bowlers in the 7 drafts since Charlie Casserly left? Bad luck? Why did the Patriots get 23 touchdowns for a 4th round pick and we got barely 23 catches for a 3rd, 4th and a hefty new contract? Why is it the Chargers can lose LT and Philip Rivers and beat Indy on the road? Why did the Giants have all 8 of their '07 draft picks play in their playoff game versus the Cowboys?

I agree the argument carries no weight, because its as evident as air. The current structure is not working, it hasn't worked and it won't work.[/QUOTE]

I sense that you missed my point. "We need a GM" is an argument that carries little weight if it just means you're plugging another person into the decision-making process. Will he have final say? Who will he report to? Does Cerrato overrule him? And so on.

If all you're doing is adding another body to the current structure and slapping the title "General Manager" to him than what are you really getting?

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=WillH;408426]One thing I will give Snyder credit for is that he seems to be hashing out the plans for the next Head coach very meticulously. By the end of the process he'll have interviewed at least four guys for the job, and Williams alone has undergone four interviews already. Not to mention the epic length of the interviews.

Like most others I hope that in the end he sticks to his word and hires Williams for the sake of continuity, but it is refreshing to see the eager young owner take the time to ensure that whatever decision is made it is the right one. It's a nice change from some of his previous knee-jerk reactions. Hopefully this is a sign of what is to come in terms of all personnel decisions.[/QUOTE]

Meticulous? Um, he hasn't named a coach because he can't because of the Rooney Rule, but does anyone really believe that he might hire Ron Meeks or Jim Caldwell? Just listen to him, the buzzwords give his decision away. Continuity, keeping the same structure. Will GW be given the Team Presidency like Gibbs before him? Uh, no.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

If it was only about the Rooney Rule there are plenty of other people Snyder could have already interviewed. And does Williams even deserve the role of President?

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;408431]

If all you're doing is adding another body to the current structure and slapping the title "General Manager" to him than what are you really getting?[/QUOTE]

Someone who takes over Gibbs' role as Team President, a position that Gibbs resigned and one that was created for Gibbs. Gregg Williams going to be Head Coach and Team President?

The current structure does not work, which is the point I was trying to make. But it needs to change.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;408438]If it was only about the Rooney Rule there are plenty of other people Snyder could have already interviewed. And does Williams even deserve the role of President?[/QUOTE]

No GW probably doesn't. So we're back to a two-headed personnel monster? Great, shoot me now please.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;408438]If it was only about the Rooney Rule there are plenty of other people Snyder could have already interviewed. And does Williams even deserve the role of President?[/QUOTE]

And if its about due diligence then he'll interview more people after he interviews Meeks and Caldwell. If its about the Rooney Rule, then GW will be head coach within a week. My money's on the Rooney Rule.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=memphisskin;408443]Someone who takes over Gibbs' role as Team President, a position that Gibbs resigned and one that was created for Gibbs. Gregg Williams going to be Head Coach and Team President?

The current structure does not work, which is the point I was trying to make. But it needs to change.[/quote]


Here's my problem with your argument. The past four years it seems this system has taken a step in the right direction in the scouting department. Obviously Gibbs has to be given a lot of credit for this, but he didn't do it on his own. He setup the organization to coordinate on these decisions. So to scrap it all would seem to be detrimental to the cause of maintaining continuity and progressing as a result. I will agree that I would rather see Gregg Williams stepup and fill the hole as president, but the rest of the system should stay intact IMO.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=memphisskin;408447]And if its about due diligence then he'll interview more people after he interviews Meeks and Caldwell. If its about the Rooney Rule, then GW will be head coach within a week. My money's on the Rooney Rule.[/quote]

Mora is being interviewed tomorrow. Meeks soon after. And there is no word on Caldwell.

Besides all that, he could have just made GW head coach without interviewing ANYONE, and then the Rooney Rule would not apply. At least that is what is implied by the wording of the rule. Someone posted it in another thread but it said something like: "if an owner interviews outside their organization then a minority candidate must be interviewed as well."

Even if I am reading that wrong, they could have reworked Williams' contract before Gibbs retired so that the Rooney Rule would be bypassed. Snyder obviously wanted to weigh his options.

Edit: There was also Schwarts another non-minority candidate

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;408447]And if its about due diligence then he'll interview more people after he interviews Meeks and Caldwell. If its about the Rooney Rule, then GW will be head coach within a week. My money's on the Rooney Rule.[/QUOTE]

Schwartz, Williams, Mora, Caldwell, Meeks, Grimm. Those are just the ones the public has heard about. That's plenty of interviews in my opinion.

We've made vast improvements the past couple of years in our personnel philosophy. Obviously a lot of it has to do with Gibbs' influence. The question is did he impact the front office enough for them to continue on the path they've been heading with him gone now.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;408451]Schwartz, Williams, Mora, Caldwell, Meeks, Grimm. Those are just the ones the public has heard about. That's plenty of interviews in my opinion.

We've made vast improvements the past couple of years in our personnel philosophy. Obviously a lot of it has to do with Gibbs' influence. The question is did he impact the front office enough for them to continue on the path they've been heading with him gone now.[/quote]

Thanks SS, you're better at summing things up.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=WillH;408450]Mora is being interviewed tomorrow. Meeks soon after. And there is no word on Caldwell.

Besides all that, he could have just made GW head coach without interviewing ANYONE, and then the Rooney Rule would not apply. At least that is what is implied by the wording of the rule. Someone posted it in another thread but it said something like: "if an owner interviews outside their organization then a minority candidate must be interviewed as well."

Even if I am reading that wrong, they could have reworked Williams' contract before Gibbs retired so that the Rooney Rule would be bypassed. Snyder obviously wanted to weigh his options.

Edit: There was also Schwarts another non-minority candidate[/quote]

Your incorrect. The rooney rule did apply, they HAD to interview a minority. It was not in the contract language for GW to "fall" into the HC job if Joe were to retire or quit.

Might have been a little late to try to change someones contract, when your HC just floored you with I'm stepping down.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule]Rooney Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=WillH;408448]Here's my problem with your argument. The past four years it seems this system has taken a step in the right direction in the scouting department. Obviously Gibbs has to be given a lot of credit for this, but he didn't do it on his own. He setup the organization to coordinate on these decisions. So to scrap it all would seem to be detrimental to the cause of maintaining continuity and progressing as a result. I will agree that I would rather see Gregg Williams stepup and fill the hole as president, but the rest of the system should stay intact IMO.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, but time will tell. I think Gibbs 2.0 was a success, but only because Spurrier was such a disaster. But just take the last four years on their own, compare them to the other NFC East teams (our closest competitors) and was it really a success?

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;408455]Your incorrect. The rooney rule did apply, they HAD to interview a minority. It was not in the contract language for GW to "fall" into the HC job if Joe were to retire or quit.

Might have been a little late to try to change someones contract, when your HC just floored you with I'm stepping down.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule"]Rooney Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL][/quote]

I dont want to get too snippy with you so this is the last Ill argue about this silliness. First of all, IMO if you're going to call someone out on false information, don't use Wikipedia as a source. I have heard all of that before, but someone posted something in a previous thread that was worded in a way that suggested that if a person in the organization was promoted, and no interviews were conducted then the Rooney Rule does not apply. Now I know that this is not a reliable source ("someone posted something") So I will try to dig it up. But I haven't read anything posted on this forum in the past week or so that has explained these stipulations definitively. Sorry for being an ass.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't realize that this was your first post in this convo. I wouldn't have gotten so up in arms about it.

Edit #2: Found it, but I was just wrong. It turns out I used it for a different yet related argument altogether. It does say here that other interviewing cannot take place without interviewing a minority, but it also says their has to be prior contract stipulations. So sorry again, I am even more of an ass then I thought. I still maintain, however, that he could have asked Joe to delay the announcement while he reworked Williams' contract.


[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/21960-espn-redskins-interview-g-williams-2.html#post406424[/url]

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;408451]Schwartz, Williams, Mora, Caldwell, Meeks, Grimm. Those are just the ones the public has heard about. That's plenty of interviews in my opinion.

We've made vast improvements the past couple of years in our personnel philosophy. Obviously a lot of it has to do with Gibbs' influence. The question is did he impact the front office enough for them to continue on the path they've been heading with him gone now.[/QUOTE]

I just don't see the vast improvement in personnel philosophy, mainly because I don't see a personnel philosophy. And I'll give you that we've had some successes, but we're batting about .200 right now personnel-wise, plus we're still down a draft pick b/c of TJ Duckett.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=memphisskin;408462]I disagree, but time will tell. I think Gibbs 2.0 was a success, but only because Spurrier was such a disaster. But just take the last four years on their own, compare them to the other NFC East teams (our closest competitors) and was it really a success?[/quote]


Yeah, I hear ya on that. I am definitely disappointed with what Gibbs 2.0 produced on the field. It is hard to tell where the line between wasting time on a system that is not working, and simply not giving it enough time to develop. We have some promising young players, and a good coaching staff, so I'd like to see at least another two years of this system before I give up on it.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;408432]Meticulous? Um, he hasn't named a coach because he can't because of the Rooney Rule, but does anyone really believe that he might hire Ron Meeks or Jim Caldwell? Just listen to him, the buzzwords give his decision away. Continuity, keeping the same structure. Will GW be given the Team Presidency like Gibbs before him? Uh, no.[/QUOTE]

Well then why is he interviewing Mora?

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;408465]I just don't see the vast improvement in personnel philosophy, mainly because I don't see a personnel philosophy. And I'll give you that we've had some successes, but we're batting about .200 right now personnel-wise, plus we're still down a draft pick b/c of TJ Duckett.[/QUOTE]

Well in the past, chances were more than likely we wouldn't have re-signed Cooley to a new deal before he tested the market, wouldn't have ensured we had a solid running back by retaining Betts at below market value.

Yeah the Duckett was a failure for us. But we've also invested a lot of late draft picks and solid scouting overall on several solid, young players who shouldn't be dismissed so quickly. Apart from Campbell and Landry-Alexander, Heyer, Doughty, Montgomery, Blades just to name a few.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=WillH;408463]I dont want to get too snippy with you so this is the last Ill argue about this silliness. First of all, IMO if you're going to call someone out on false information, don't use Wikipedia as a source. I have heard all of that before, but someone posted something in a previous thread that was worded in a way that suggested that if a person in the organization was promoted, and no interviews were conducted then the Rooney Rule does not apply. Now I know that this is not a reliable source ("someone posted something") So I will try to dig it up. But I haven't read anything posted on this forum in the past week or so that has explained these stipulations definitively. Sorry for being an ass.[/QUOTE]

No, there are no loopholes in the Rooney Rule. And you're going to jump on someone for quoting Wikipedia and then say "someone posted something in a previous thread..." For real?

But whoever posted that is wrong. You cannot just promote whoever you want without interviewing someone. I would think that if you're going to pay someone $3 million a year, you may want to talk to him about how he wants to do things.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=memphisskin;408470]No, there are no loopholes in the Rooney Rule. And you're going to jump on someone for quoting Wikipedia and then say "someone posted something in a previous thread..." For real?

But whoever posted that is wrong. You cannot just promote whoever you want without interviewing someone. I would think that if you're going to pay someone $3 million a year, you may want to talk to him about how he wants to do things.[/quote]

In case you don't look back..

Edit #2: Found it, but I was just wrong. It turns out I used it for a different yet related argument altogether. It does say here that other interviewing cannot take place without interviewing a minority, but it also says their has to be prior contract stipulations. So sorry again, I am even more of an ass then I thought. I still maintain, however, that he could have asked Joe to delay the announcement while he reworked Williams' contract.


[URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/21960-espn-redskins-interview-g-williams-2.html#post406424"]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locke...tml#post406424 (ESPN: Redskins to Interview G. Williams Today)[/URL]

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;408469]Well in the past, chances were more than likely we wouldn't have re-signed Cooley to a new deal before he tested the market, wouldn't have ensured we had a solid running back by retaining Betts at below market value.

Yeah the Duckett was a failure for us. But we've also invested a lot of late draft picks and solid scouting overall on several solid, young players who shouldn't be dismissed so quickly. Apart from Campbell and Landry-Alexander, Heyer, Doughty, Montgomery, Blades just to name a few.[/QUOTE]

SS, I will give you the college scouting department wins, which I wanted to attribute to Louis Riddick but he does PRO scouting. Can we really count a 5th round pick as a solid scouting win, when our Front Office traded the 3rd rounder for Lloyd and the 4th round for Duckett?

Outside of Fletcher, which free agent that we brought in the last couple of years actually performed the way we expected? And I'm basing expectations on salary, unless its just our business model to give everyone $10 million to sign, which to me is still a lot of money. Lloyd, Carter, Randle-El, Arch Deluxe, none of them seem like $10 mil players to me.

How about letting Ryan Clark, Pierce, and Smoot all walk, when $1 million combined would have kept them all here?

I do see improvement, however a lot of that was due to the guy who just retired. We shall see if it continues, I'm a Skins fan so of course I hope it does continue. I'm afraid it will go back to the days of Taylor Jacobs.

Love the tete-a-tete, you do make me think there SS.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=WillH;408472]In case you don't look back..

Edit #2: Found it, but I was just wrong. It turns out I used it for a different yet related argument altogether. It does say here that other interviewing cannot take place without interviewing a minority, but it also says their has to be prior contract stipulations. So sorry again, I am even more of an ass then I thought. I still maintain, however, that he could have asked Joe to delay the announcement while he reworked Williams' contract.


[URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/21960-espn-redskins-interview-g-williams-2.html#post406424"]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locke...tml#post406424 (ESPN: Redskins to Interview G. Williams Today)[/URL][/QUOTE]

And I still maintain that you are wrong.

Before the Rooney Rule, the argument was that minorities were terrible at interviewing. You only get better by doing, so the Rooney Rule's intent is two-fold, foster diversity by 1) developing the interviewing skill set of minorities, and 2) force owners to interview minority candidates that they were not doing otherwise.

Your assertion, which I agree with as a Redskin fan interested in continuity, I absolutely disagree with as a minority. What's to stop any owner from doing the same thing you prescribe?

Good arguing with you though, and for the record, I don't think you're an ass. Maybe donkey-like, but not an ass. Just joking, its all good!

HTTR

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;408473]SS, I will give you the college scouting department wins, which I wanted to attribute to Louis Riddick but he does PRO scouting. Can we really count a 5th round pick as a solid scouting win, when our Front Office traded the 3rd rounder for Lloyd and the 4th round for Duckett?

Outside of Fletcher, which free agent that we brought in the last couple of years actually performed the way we expected? And I'm basing expectations on salary, unless its just our business model to give everyone $10 million to sign, which to me is still a lot of money. Lloyd, Carter, Randle-El, Arch Deluxe, none of them seem like $10 mil players to me.

How about letting Ryan Clark, Pierce, and Smoot all walk, when $1 million combined would have kept them all here?

I do see improvement, however a lot of that was due to the guy who just retired. We shall see if it continues, I'm a Skins fan so of course I hope it does continue. I'm afraid it will go back to the days of Taylor Jacobs.

Love the tete-a-tete, you do make me think there SS.[/QUOTE]


Are they worth $10 million, no probably not. Though I think El and Carter come pretty close considering the market.

The money debate is a never-ending one, and will probably continue until the day that it really does come back to bite us in the gluteus. Up until now it hasn't really killed us (props to Marty for avoiding disaster back in 2001, but that's another story).

And sometimes the best move is to let people go. And sometimes people just want to go.

Anyhow, I suspect there could be a FO change coming anyway.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

I dont know where he is going with all the interviews, we are 99% sure he's coaching.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;408479]Are they worth $10 million, no probably not. Though I think El and Carter come pretty close considering the market.

The money debate is a never-ending one, and will probably continue until the day that it really does come back to bite us in the gluteus. Up until now it hasn't really killed us (props to Marty for avoiding disaster back in 2001, but that's another story).

And sometimes the best move is to let people go. And sometimes people just want to go.

Anyhow,[B] I suspect there could be a FO change coming anyway[/B].[/quote]

Smootsmack - what change do you think is going to happen to the FO? -(just curious)

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;408789]Smootsmack - what change do you think is going to happen to the FO? -(just curious)[/QUOTE]

Just a gut feeling that someone new might be added to the decision making process. And I'm not talking about the new coach.

Not as strong a feeling as I had yesterday though

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

I was researching, if there was a relationship between Steve Mariucci and Cerrato, and I came across this article about how Cerrato's job was in jepoardy for leaving the 49er's 20 million over the cap. Sound familiar.
[URL="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/1998/11/30/SP10064.DTL&type=printable"]Tough Decisions Ahead for Mariucci[/URL]

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

I still don't understand why Dan keeps this tool around. Vinny is never ever going to get fired. He and Dan seem to be butt buddies. If he really wanted to win as bad as we all know he does then why doesn't he go get the best personel guy out there? He goes out and pays top $ for the coaches yet he doesn't do it when it comes to the FO.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;408184]As I understand it, [B]essentially you've got Louis Riddick leading a team of scouts that research and target pro players (NFL, CFL, AFL)[/B] and then Scott Campbell leads the team that does the same for the college players. And Vinny oversees both groups, participates in the latters stages of player evaluation, makes suggestions based on their findings, and essentially serves as a filter of information to ownership (and Gibbs when he was here).

But they supposedly give Riddick/Campbell pretty much carte blanche, not sure I'm using the term right actually but Snyder and Cerrato usually go off their recommendations without much pushback.

And the other key player is Eric Schaeffer, who handles the money.[/quote]I wonder if Riddick recommended both Archuleta and B. Lloyd. If so, I would think that we could do better with our head of pro scouting.

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

What does Vinny do? Have you heard the term "fluffer"?

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;409911]I was researching, if there was a relationship between Steve Mariucci and Cerrato, and I came across this article about how Cerrato's job was in jepoardy for leaving the 49er's 20 million over the cap. Sound familiar.
[URL="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/1998/11/30/SP10064.DTL&type=printable"]Tough Decisions Ahead for Mariucci[/URL][/quote]

I have taken the important parts of the article, so everyone can see it.
[quote]The first task for Mariucci and the 49ers: Slice $20 million from the 1999 payroll by mid-February. That's how much the team figures it's over the projected $56-$60 million cap figure for next year. [/quote]
[quote]Further, Clark and Policy probably will not be the only men the 49ers have to replace. Sources in the organization have expressed displeasure with personnel director Vinny Cerrato, and his job is said to be in jeopardy. [/quote]

Re: What does Vinny Cerrato do?
 

[QUOTE=T.O.Killa;409990]I have taken the important parts of the article, so everyone can see it.[/QUOTE]

Crrato has a terrible track record. I am not sure why some people want him around?