Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;412846]I know no one (many of you) wants to hear it, but does anyone even remotely consider the possibility that Campbell was asked what he felt most comfortable with and the answer wasn't Saunders?[/quote]

Well when you consider the fact that the FO hasn't even kept the coaching staff up to date with whats going on with the coaching search or their own status. Then every player interview I've heard they don't have a clue what is going on in regards to the search.

I would find it very hard to believe that they asked JC what he is most comfortable with. IMO I bet they could care less, they have made a decision based on what they (THE FO and/or future coach) feels is the best hire for the team.

Moving forward I hope the next hire is GW as our 27th HC, maybe this is in fact a GW guy?

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;412846]I know no one (many of you) wants to hear it, but does anyone even remotely consider the possibility that Campbell was asked what he felt most comfortable with and the answer wasn't Saunders?[/quote]

Nope. Everything I've heard from JC's mouth is that he likes the offense and he liked working with Al S. and Bill L. And I would bet that when he comes on the radio again next week he isn't going to be happy running his 3rd different offense in 4 years. Sorry but that's not how you coach a young QB that you gave up 2 number 1 picks for.

When you change OC's that means some trickle down stuff is going to happen. What good is Collins w/out Al? So who is our back-up now that Al isn't going to be here? Collins showed that he can play at a high level in Al's offense so you now possibly weaken the back up QB spot.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;412853]Yeah good point. I think Zorn will run some kind of West Coast offense and I think that will suite JC really well with regard to his skill set. Saunders system isn't for everybody that is for sure.[/QUOTE]


Al Saunders offense is a good one, but a complex one. The last thing a young QB needs is a complex offense. Jason will mature more rapidly in a more simplified offense. Seven hundred pages is a bit much for any QB let alone one just starting out in the league.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

Just heard on the John Riggins show, that Al was told last evening to start looking for work. Not sure about his contract details?

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

this is STUPID... we have a playoff team that is now about to restart on offense. I am so disappointed right now. We got to see what Al's offense could do with Collins and we Loved it!!! Now we change up...I really dont think everyone is ready to rebuild. I hate to be negative but the growth of our QB is crucial. All the great QB's had the same OC in their earlier stages....hmmm maybe thats a pattern we havent noticed.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

JLC: Redskin Insider

Posted at 5:53 PM ET, 01/25/2008
Zorn Deal is True

This is from Jason Reid: We've confirmed an ESPN report that Jim Zorn has been hired as the Redskins' new offensive coordinator even though a head coach has not been named. We reported a couple days ago that Zorn was at the top of Jim Fassel's list of potential offensive coordinators and is very highly regarded by Gregg Williams as well.
The hiring of Zorn likely means that associate head coach -- offense Al Saunders is finished with the team. Owner Daniel Snyder and vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato were privately critical of the offense's performance under Saunders the past two seasons. The two were especially concerned, sources said, about the development of young quarterback Jason Campbell, whose progress is the organization's top priority.
UPDATE II: A source with knowledge of the situation said this evening that Saunders has been told to look for work elsewhere and that he does not expect to return to the team in any capacity.
Word of Zorn's hiring comes a day after Joe Gibbs called Redskins assistant coaches to tell them that the search for his replacement is likely to take several more weeks.
"They haven't told us anything [about Zorn]," one Redskins assistant said. "I heard about it on the radio. I have no idea what it means for us."

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[quote=Longtimefan;412867]Al Saunders offense is a good one, but a complex one. The last thing a young QB needs is a complex offense. Jason will mature more rapidly in a more simplified offense. Seven hundred pages is a bit much for any QB let alone one just starting out in the league.[/quote]

Sorry but the west coast offense is VERY COMPLICATED w/ a ton of verbage and it's more complicated than Al's offense. When I use to play football we ran something like the Coyell, Gibbs offense. It's tough for the Qb but it's very very easy for everyone else.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

I'm just saying maybe Gibbs at some point during the year asked him. Or maybe Campbell said, or maybe it was just apparent that for him (and for everyone else) they were more comfortable with a system more similar to Musgrave's (and Zorn's and the dude who coached Campbell in college. I know, I know. College doesn't count, right?) than Saunders'.

I mean I don't know how much clearer I can be that Saunders, in my opinion, earned the right to get at least one more year here. And whether he's comfortable or not now, I have no doubt Campbell is fully capable of eventually mastering the offense.

But we can sit here and bitch about it and have post after post of how stupid it all is, or try to make some sense out of it. Much to the disbelief of many of you, Redskins Park isn't filled with mindless idiots who put no thought or consideration into anything.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

This means a defensive minded head coach, or a "West Coast" guy who likes Zorn will be our head coach.

So GW, Fassel, and ?

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;412872]I'm just saying maybe Gibbs at some point during the year asked him. Or maybe Campbell said, or maybe it was just apparent that for him (and for everyone else) they were more comfortable with a system more similar to Musgrave's (and Zorn's and the dude who coached Campbell in college. I know, I know. College doesn't count, right?) than Saunders'.

I mean I don't know how much clearer I can be that Saunders, in my opinion, earned the right to get at least one more year here. And whether he's comfortable or not now, I have no doubt Campbell is fully capable of eventually mastering the offense.

But we can sit here and bitch about it and have post after post of how stupid it all is, or try to make some sense out of it. Much to the disbelief of many of you, Redskins Park isn't filled with mindless idiots who put no thought or consideration into anything.[/q

IMO it's only filled with two idiots. Snyder and Vinny.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=drew54;412873]This means a defensive minded head coach, or a "West Coast" guy who likes Zorn will be our head coach.

So GW, Fassel, and ?[/QUOTE]

George Seifert! :)

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

Saunders didn't do much of anything here anyway, the first year was a disaster and the offense was actually worse in year 2 in terms of overall ranking. I saw this move coming from a mile away. I just didn't see Saunders lasting another year here, even if Gibbs came back.

Zorn could be a very good mentor for JC.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

The funny thing is this move still tells us nothing about the potential HC since GW and Fassel reportedly were both high on Zorn.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

A couple of thoughts:

I guess an offensive coach is not going to be hired b/c they'd bring in their own system

Why would we hire an o coord before a hc? Might be a wink/wink deal w/ Spagnuolo.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

its obvious this move means that its gonna either be GW or Fossil, both have given Snyder and Cerrato an OK with Zorn

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

I know JF and GW think alot of Zorn, but if it was one of them why wouldn't they be hired already.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;412872]I'm just saying maybe Gibbs at some point during the year asked him. Or maybe Campbell said, or maybe it was just apparent that for him (and for everyone else) they were more comfortable with a system more similar to Musgrave's (and Zorn's and the dude who coached Campbell in college. I know, I know. College doesn't count, right?) than Saunders'.

I mean I don't know how much clearer I can be that Saunders, in my opinion, earned the right to get at least one more year here. And whether he's comfortable or not now, I have no doubt Campbell is fully capable of eventually mastering the offense.

But we can sit here and bitch about it and have post after post of how stupid it all is, or try to make some sense out of it. Much to the disbelief of many of you, Redskins Park isn't filled with mindless idiots who put no thought or consideration into anything.[/QUOTE]


It has been said that many within the organization were just not satisfied with Al's offense, and even if Gibbs had decided to return, Al's situation still could have been in jepordy. There were many here on this board who thought when Gibbs brought Al aboard, it was not a good idea. Watching the team not being able to score in the second half against the Giants after leading 17-3 at the half, and then loosing four games in a row because the offense apeared so dysfunctional didn't sit so well at Redskin Park.

That, coupled with all the other close losses due to ineffective offense, obviously they felt perhaps a change was needed. There certainly were times during the course of the season when I wasn't satisfied with the offense either.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;412881]Saunders didn't do much of anything here anyway, the first year was a disaster and the offense was actually worse in year 2 in terms of overall ranking. I saw this move coming from a mile away. I just didn't see Saunders lasting another year here, even if Gibbs came back.

Zorn could be a very good mentor for JC.[/quote]

Yeah I remember you calling this and I contended that it would be stupid to let Saunders go, so kudos and all that.

I think Saunders deserved at least another year, but if the organization as a whole had their doubts about him I guess it makes more sense to clean house once, and not re-adjust things once more next year if things didn't pan out. My biggest concern was about the development of JC, and it seems there could be no better option then Zorn to step in, in this situation. In one of the articles posted Hasselback apparently give this guy alot of credit especially helping him through hard times.

So good, great! I'm not thrilled Saunders is gone, but I like the move to get Zorn. Lets hope the players can get behind this guy; he has no prior experience so it might be tough to convince guys of what he is doing, but our guys dont seem to be very high maintainence. So we'll see.

I agree its strange to hire an OC before HC, but I am sure that suggests their is something in the works already.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

I still don't understand the FO hiring Zorn unless they already have a HC. The HC is supposed to hire their staff!!! Maybe this will iron itself out, but i don't quite understand this move.

With all this, I still don't understand why the FO is intent on getting rid of Al Saunders, who's history, is one of an annual top 5 or 10 offense. It's clear that the Redskins talent is mediocre not the coaching. I don't think DS or VC can see this thru their burgundy colored glasses. Al Saunders is a great O coach. Sad to see him go.

Why do we now wait for Spagnuola to interview? If he's hired he might not want Zorn unless it's already been spoken about.

As Chris Landry said on the radio...as he laughed...it starts at the top and right now we need a football guy to make football decisions. He stated that the problem isn't our coaches b/c right now we have some of the best coaches in the league. Talent wise we're still somewhere around average.

How true. It looks like DS's making the decisions not a football guy. Sorry to be so negative, Zorn, from what I've heard is pretty impressive/hard working guy. He could turn out to be good. I just don't agree w/ hiring a staff before a HC. I also don't think alot of guys are better than Al Saunders. If so, i'd challenge anyone to name them.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

I have to think that there is no way the HC has not already been chosen. They may not have a contract yet but anything else doesn't make sense (and don't throw me the Jason Garrett line - he came up through their organization and there was considerable interest in him last year as well). Two things lead me to this thought: 1. why would anyone take a job where they don't know who their boss is going to be? The devil you know is better than the devil you don't. 2. What HC would come into a situation where his staff has been picked for him? Talk about a recipe for disaster.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

The choice could have been worse, we could have hired [B]Mouse Davis[/B] to operate the [B]run and shoot offense[/B]

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=redsk1;412889]I know JF and GW think alot of Zorn, but if it was one of them why wouldn't they be hired already.[/QUOTE]


I wonder if Danny has his wife call him "Jerry" when they are in the sack?

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;412866]Nope. Everything I've heard from JC's mouth is that he likes the offense and he liked working with Al S. and Bill L. And I would bet that when he comes on the radio again next week he isn't going to be happy running his 3rd different offense in 4 years. Sorry but that's not how you coach a young QB that you gave up 2 number 1 picks for.

When you change OC's that means some trickle down stuff is going to happen. What good is Collins w/out Al? So who is our back-up now that Al isn't going to be here? Collins showed that he can play at a high level in Al's offense so you now possibly weaken the back up QB spot.[/quote]

Ok, you don't build your team or staff around your backup QB. I think that position is somewhere towards the bottom of the priority list at the moment.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

Nothing against Zorn, but hiring an OC before a head coach shows just how clueless Vinny and Danny are about conducting a coaching search. Let's hypothetically assume that Snyder is putting all his eggs in the Fassel basket. What if Fassel has a sudden change of heart about coaching here? Where does that leave us? You ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS lock down the head coach FIRST, then let him assemble his staff. With the Zorn signing, we can stop speculating about McDaniel and Spagnuolo as candidates, because I can't imagine either interviewing for an owner who took the prerogative to assemble the coaching staff prior to their interview.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;412900]Ok, you don't build your team or staff around your backup QB. I think that position is somewhere towards the bottom of the priority list at the moment.[/quote]

All too true, but I wonder who will be the backup?

I am happy that Collins did what he did this season, and I hope him and Al find a comfy new home, but I am sure as hell glad we wont have a Todd Collins or Mark Brunell backing up our QB anymore.

Lets bring in Seneca Wallace!!!! Backup QB and WR all at once!!

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;412866]Nope. Everything I've heard from JC's mouth is that he likes the offense and he liked working with Al S. and Bill L. And I would bet that when he comes on the radio again next week he isn't going to be happy running his 3rd different offense in 4 years. Sorry but that's not how you coach a young QB that you gave up 2 number 1 picks for.

When you change OC's that means some trickle down stuff is going to happen. What good is Collins w/out Al? So who is our back-up now that Al isn't going to be here? Collins showed that he can play at a high level in Al's offense so you now possibly weaken the back up QB spot.[/QUOTE]


In a public interview, would you really expect Campbell to say anything other than that? It would be unlike Jason to publically criticize his coach.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;412900]Ok, you don't build your team or staff around your backup QB. I think that position is somewhere towards the bottom of the priority list at the moment.[/quote]As Joe Gibbs said many times, the most important player on your team is the starting QB, and the second most important is his backup. Todd Collins proved that this year, as did Doug Williams 20 years ago.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

I really don't care about any of this. I liked Zorn back in the day when he was the Hawk's QB but I really don't know much about him as a coach like most other people here. As far as the way Snyder is handling this...it's his team, he can conduct business any way he chooses and I am free to support the team or not. I find it absurd to critique, complain or panic about his process. I'm of the "wait and see" camp. Fassel may be a good fit. I don't know. GW may be a good HC. I don't know. Neither does anyone else. Quit yer bitchin'.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=dblanch66;412905]I really don't care about any of this. I liked Zorn back in the day when he was the Hawk's QB but I really don't know much about him as a coach like most other people here. As [B]far as the way Snyder is handling this...it's his team, he can conduct business any way he chooses and I am free to support the team or not. I find it absurd to critique, complain or panic about his process. [/B] I'm of the "wait and see" camp. Fassel may be a good fit. I don't know. GW may be a good HC. I don't know. Neither does anyone else. Quit yer bitchin'.[/QUOTE]

I know the whole "quit yer bitchin" mantra is in right now. I also think some people (i.e., the "I'm selling my Redskins gear" crowd) are getting overworked and looking silly. That said, the notion that I, as a devoted fan, cannot take issue with front office moves is equally silly (no offense dblanch). As the owner, Dan has the power to make front office moves, but as a fan, I have every right to disagree with front office moves in a reasonable and articulate fashion.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;412906]I know the whole "quit yer bitchin" mantra is in right now. I also think some people (i.e., the "I'm selling my Redskins gear" crowd) are getting overworked and looking silly. That said, the notion that I, as a devoted fan, cannot take issue with front office moves is equally silly (no offense dblanch). As the owner, Dan has the power to make front office moves, but as a fan, I have every right to disagree with front office moves in a reasonable and articulate fashion.[/QUOTE]

No question. Key words being reasonable and articulate.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;412904]As Joe Gibbs said many times, the most important player on your team is the starting QB, and the second most important is his backup. Todd Collins proved that this year, as did Doug Williams 20 years ago.[/QUOTE]


A little success sure goes a long ways dosen't it? If memory serves me correctly the first year Collins was here and we got to see him in pre-season, many here vowed to never want to see him under center again (including me) It's amazing how just a little bit of success can change the minds of so many people.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=redwagonskins;412822]Anybody else think this is putting the cart before the horse? An OC before an HC? Maybe the decision has already been made.[/QUOTE]

Jerry did the very same thing in Dallas. Garrett was named OC before Wade was hired.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

Sounds like he's got a proven track record.

Who else had a proven track record that we hired? Oh that's right, Al Saunders.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

I gotta admit, at first I didn't think Zorn would leave Seattle. He's been there his nearly all of his professional career, both as a player and coach, and would probably be in line to take over as OC when Holmgren leaves. But in the ESPN presser today I read that two other assistants have already left Seattle since Holmgren said '08 will be his last year. And now Zorn? That's three in a week. Maybe a lot of the staff isn't confident in the direction Mora will go when he (supposedly) takes over? Interesting...

Regardless, if Al was gonna go, I'm happy with his replacement.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;412871]Sorry but the west coast offense is VERY COMPLICATED w/ a ton of verbage and it's more complicated than Al's offense. When I use to play football we ran something like the Coyell, Gibbs offense. It's tough for the Qb but it's very very easy for everyone else.[/QUOTE]But as a professional, Campbell doesn't have to try to balance his studying of the playbook and verbage with the workload of a student athlete. He has plenty of time over the next 8 months to learn all the verbage. It's a total non-issue.

Saunders could have been successful here given more time, but I don't hold any specific allegance to him, and I'm not all that disappointed to see him go. Zorn will reap the success that Saunders would have had. To me, that's not a big deal.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

So does this mean the 'Skins will be runnin' the "West Coast" offense?

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;412924]But as a professional, Campbell doesn't have to try to balance his studying of the playbook and verbage with the workload of a student athlete. He has plenty of time over the next 8 months to learn all the verbage. It's a total non-issue.[/QUOTE]

Plus in Campbell's combine and pro career he has had to under go 7 offensive changes. I think he's shown in college and showing in the NFL he can adapt

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

Seahawks fans seem to speak pretty highly of him. I think a lot were hoping he'd stick around and be at least OC after Holmgren left. Part of it may be appreciation of his talents, part of it may be there affinity for him from his playing days.

Still, I do feel kind of bad for Seahawks fans. I'm sure many of them felt one of their own had finally come home.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;412839]This story broke before JLC was able to pull his Blackberry out of his pocket. He must be pissed that ESPN beat him to it.[/QUOTE]

He has a house of sick kids apparently.

Re: Zorn becomes SKINS new OC.
 

Here are a couple of pieces on Zorn

[url=http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/328887_hawk24.html]Hawks QBs Zorn-again players[/url]

[url=http://www.mvonline.com/focus/then_now_working_world/working_world-23.html]THEN & NOW - WORKING WORLD[/url]

and a couple of amusing videos

[YT]aQVm1NJRLzk[/YT]

[YT]NfGZsPLDkY8[/YT]