Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Either way at the end of the day I say get CJ or Moss, I pretty sure that Campbell can hit either one deep. Also, I think having a top 5 WR will help Campbell develop into a much better QB...

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Redskins8588;415875]Either way at the end of the day I say get CJ or Moss, I pretty sure that Campbell can hit either one deep. Also, I think having a top 5 WR will help Campbell develop into a much better QB...[/quote]

Yeah, a WR like CJ will open up everything for us. He's also a much better red zone threat than anybody we have here.

He'll take defensive attention away from other receivers and Cooley. It will give defenses fits. You can't cover both a healthy CJ and a healthy Santana Moss without a Cover 2 (unless you've got Charles Woodson and Al Harris). And Cooley is made to gash a cover 2 over the middle.

Nevermind the fact that Portis will never see an eight man front again in his life.

The entire offense becomes very hard to gameplan for. Campbell will automatically produce better numbers without even improving the accuracy of his throws.

Granted, it would take time for CJ, Moss, Cooley, ARE, and JC to master the West Coast. But once they do, they'd be a fierce offensive unit.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Yo quiero ocho cinco, pero, no creo que el viene aqui.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Redskins8588;415870]You are right when you said that JC is not a top QB in the league but dont you think that it may help him develop if he gets a top notch WR?[/quote]

Yeah, maybe, but you have to watch out that it's not goint to hurt his growth as a QB. If CJ doesn't see the ball for a half or a game i'm not sure it would help JC to have a reciever blow up on him. That's all I'm saying. It's risky.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

It sounds like there's more to CJ's behavior than just a passion for winning & celebrating. He's been gradually acting more selfish. The first publicity I remember of it was when the host bengals lost to the evenutal SB champ steelers in 05-06. At halftime of that game it was reported that he threw a tantrum & had to be restrained.

Since then it seems the sideline arguments & overall complaining have increased. He's nowhere near the problem child TO is, but his behavior, as noted by JLC, has alienated teamates. It's too easy to say all the bengals are to blame. Sure, they've had a lot of problem players as far as off field stuff goes, but none of them appears as selfish on the field.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;415838][URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/21952-chad-johnson-wants-out-of-cincy.html?highlight=Chad+Johnson"]here[/URL] , [URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/21899-chad-johnson.html?highlight=Chad+Johnson"]here[/URL]

[IMG]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1275969/srch.JPG[/IMG][/QUOTE]

I think in this case it's ok to start a new thread because a) there is new information and b) the new information is likely to start another large discussion. So better to start fresh with a new thread. It's a delicate balance, to be sure. Sometimes it's best to just add to an existing thread. For example, with the news that Schwartz had extended his deal with the Titans I chose to add it to an existing thread primarily because it was a piece of news that would close the discussion at hand (Schwartz as Redskins HC). Now, had he not extended his deal that certainly would have merited its own thread.

Like I said, it can be tough to tell. But the mods can help. That's what we're here for. If we feel threads should be merged we can do that. There have been times we've suggested to posters to take the post they've created in an existing thread and start a new one. Or PM one of us if you have doubt about starting a new thread. I mean I'm evil, but the rest of the mods are pretty nice.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Yeah bring in another troubled reciever to start up problems on the team and create a hostile work place. Remember how good of a player Michael Westbrook was but because of his bad behavior it was never shown because he stayed in so much trouble.

I would rather have Randy Moss to go with Santana Moss and El, because it is very clear Randy has grown up and no longer causes the problems on the field that he use to. And for those who want to bring up the situation in Florida I really do believe R. Moss when he says he didn't do anything wrong and trust me I've never ever been a fan or R. Moss' and really still not but I do admire him for growing up and behaving properly now.

So I would rather have Randy than Chad

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Schneed10;415874]Who the hell cares if a guy scores a TD and walks off like he's been there before, or if he scores a TD and pulls out a cell phone and calls his mom to say hi?

It still counts for 6 points doesn't it? People are getting WAAAY too carried away with this crap. Hard work and production are what matters most. Everything else is secondary... WAAAY secondary.[/quote]

Yeah, i don't mind the celebrations but personally it gets a little over the top sometimes. It's not just the celebration but the interviews, the ME talk, it just get's old sometimes. I really like CJ and his work ethic, but he needs to tone it down just a little. He doesn't have to talk about every CB he's beaten each week. For me personally i just get tired of CJ sometimes.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=freddyg12;415879]It sounds like there's more to CJ's behavior than just a passion for winning & celebrating. He's been gradually acting more selfish. The first publicity I remember of it was when the host bengals lost to the evenutal SB champ steelers in 05-06. At halftime of that game it was reported that he threw a tantrum & had to be restrained.

Since then it seems the sideline arguments & overall complaining have increased. He's nowhere near the problem child TO is, but his behavior, as noted by JLC, has alienated teamates. It's too easy to say all the bengals are to blame. Sure, they've had a lot of problem players as far as off field stuff goes, but none of them appears as selfish on the field.[/quote]

Here's the key point. I'd much rather have Chad Johnson's talent and his passion/any tendency to yell at teammates than Reche Caldwell's talent and his complete and total cooperation as a teammate.

We'd win more games with CJ as a Redskin than we would without him.

Hey, if we can find another game breaking WR out there who wouldn't be a problem, I'm all for that. I'm not necessarily married to CJ. But I do think a big move at WR is a wise idea. It would make a huge difference for us.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;415863]Because when a big piece of news come out, it better serves the site to have it easily accessible in it's own thread. If you put it in an old thread, it simply bumps to the top, but many readers won't even bother opening it because they'll think it's the same old tired discussion.

Besides, the discussion changes dramatically when you have legit news sources tying Snyder to Chad than when you simply have fan speculation.[/QUOTE]

Matter of opinion I guess. I think it meshes pretty well with those two threads, it justs lends credence to them. But whatever, as SS pointed out, I was wrong, sorry to offend.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

I do not think that Chad Johnson should be lumped in with troublemakers like T.O. and Randy Moss. However, he's no Art Monk. Johnson has engaged in excessive celebrations on numerous occasions despite knowing that such celebrations would draw 15 yard penalties. Team players do not knowingly draw 15 yard penalties simply to get ESPN's attention. Johnson also reportedly had several temper tantrums over the past few years in which he reportedly yelled and, even swung at, members of the coaching staff. Gibbs-esque players do not yell at the coaching staff.

I also think that Johnson will likely play at a Pro Bowl level for several more years. However, I do not believe it is wise to trade high draft picks (which the Bengals would surely demand) for 30 year old wideouts who expect to be highly paid, much less highly-paid 30 year old players who also demand to be the center of attention and who have little regard for the "team concept" and even less respect for authority.

In my opinion, we would be much better served using high draft picks to gamble on younger, more respectful, and less-demanding (both in terms of attention and money) draftees. Chad Johnson is certainly a star, but he's also got a trail of baggage that I would prefer to do without.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=texasskinsfan;415881]Yeah bring in another troubled reciever to start up problems on the team and create a hostile work place. Remember how good of a player Michael Westbrook was but because of his bad behavior it was never shown because he stayed in so much trouble.

I would rather have Randy Moss to go with Santana Moss and El, because it is very clear Randy has grown up and no longer causes the problems on the field that he use to. And for those who want to bring up the situation in Florida I really do believe R. Moss when he says he didn't do anything wrong and trust me I've never ever been a fan or R. Moss' and really still not but I do admire him for growing up and behaving properly now.

So I would rather have Randy than Chad[/QUOTE]

Moss is behaving himself because the Pats are winning. If he comes to the Skins and they pull their usual 7-9 to 9-7 routine and miss the playoffs he wont be happy.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;415884]Matter of opinion I guess. I think it meshes pretty well with those two threads, it justs lends credence to them. But whatever, as SS pointed out, I was wrong, sorry to offend.[/QUOTE]

Not wrong. Just a matter of opinion.

By the way, someone mentioned possibly drafting Limas Sweed. I think if they go WR in the first round (which I don't think they will), they'll go with Malcolm Kelly.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

I think CJ is a good wideout, but his performance kind of fell off this year, didn't it? SGG is right, better to draft the [I]next[/I] Chad Johnson, not the current one who's going to command top dollar...

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;415889]I think CJ is a good wideout, but his performance kind of fell off this year, didn't it? SGG is right, better to draft the [I]next[/I] Chad Johnson, not the current one who's going to command top dollar...[/quote]

Easier said then done. Finding a quality rookie wideout is almost as hard as drafting a good QB.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=texasskinsfan;415881]Yeah bring in another troubled reciever to start up problems on the team and create a hostile work place. Remember how good of a player Michael Westbrook was but because of his bad behavior it was never shown because he stayed in so much trouble.

I would rather have Randy Moss to go with Santana Moss and El, because it is very clear Randy has grown up and no longer causes the problems on the field that he use to. And for those who want to bring up the situation in Florida I really do believe R. Moss when he says he didn't do anything wrong and trust me I've never ever been a fan or R. Moss' and really still not but I do admire him for growing up and behaving properly now.

So I would rather have Randy than Chad[/quote]


No offense, but to say that Randy Moss is less troubled than Chad Johnson is just stupid. I really dont know where people are getting the "headcase" label from. In 2005, when the Bengals are winning everyone loves him, now that the Bengals suck he is a "headcase" And how can u compare CJ to Michael Westbrook. They are not even inthe same breath. All the people that called Chad Johnson a "headcase" need to look up the definition of the word.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=81+83+84=Posse;415820]I'm sure he'd get a huge payday here. The thought of giving Campbell that kind of target is very intriguing though. Johnson, Moss, El. Wow. I'd put those three up against New England's receivers anyday.[/quote]
the problem with your comparison is that we don't have Brady, and that is not a knock on campbell.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;415900]Easier said then done. Finding a quality rookie wideout is almost as hard as drafting a good QB.[/QUOTE]

First round WRs are usually 50/50 gambles, but, then again, free agent wideouts aren't exactly sure-things. Brandon Lloyd anyone? Moreover, the upside and risk on lower 1st round draftees is far and away better than that of FA wideouts.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;415900]Easier said then done. Finding a quality rookie wideout is almost as hard as drafting a good QB.[/QUOTE]

I think you can find a difference maker WR in the third round

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;415901]No offense, but to say that Randy Moss is less troubled than Chad Johnson is just stupid. I really dont know where people are getting the "headcase" label from. In 2005, when the Bengals are winning everyone loves him, now that the Bengals suck he is a "headcase" And how can u compare CJ to Michael Westbrook. They are not even inthe same breath. All the people that called Chad Johnson a "headcase" need to look up the definition of the word.[/quote]

See my earlier post + post #51 from Sheriff GG. In 05 Johnson began to be a problem when things didn't go well. In the last few years Johnson has been more of problem than Moss IMO. I know that Moss gave up in Oak. & he's still capable of being a problem, but overall he seems to have grown up a lot.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Schneed10;415883]Here's the key point. I'd much rather have Chad Johnson's talent and his passion/any tendency to yell at teammates than Reche Caldwell's talent and his complete and total cooperation as a teammate.

We'd win more games with CJ as a Redskin than we would without him.

Hey, if we can find another game breaking WR out there who wouldn't be a problem, I'm all for that. I'm not necessarily married to CJ. But I do think a big move at WR is a wise idea. It would make a huge difference for us.[/quote]

A big move at WR would make our O dangerous, no disagreement there. I hope we get a good wr & I know it's very tough to draft that position & get any solid contribution for 3 yrs.

Still, as Skins fans we know that bringing in the next star that looks great on paper doesn't equate to wins. CJ is a serious gamble to me, his impact could be huge either way; great or terrible for the team.

If we're looking to trade for a wr, if what's been rumored about R. Williams is true I think he'd be a good pickup.

Anyone know the salaries/cap implications of these guys?

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

I like the idea of CJ in burgundy and gold--but I think the price would be steep.

I like DJ Hackett of the Hawks. If he can stay healthy, he's ready to break out. His performance thus far in his career show glimmers of stardom. Kinda reminds me of Santana Moss during his tenure in NY.

Hackett would presumably know the Zorn system, would come cheaper, and provide JC with a bigger target. i think we saw some of his potential in the playoff game where some might say he owned Springs...

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=NYCSkin;415911]I like the idea of CJ in burgundy and gold--but I think the price would be steep.

I like DJ Hackett of the Hawks. If he can stay healthy, he's ready to break out. His performance thus far in his career show glimmers of stardom. Kinda reminds me of Santana Moss during his tenure in NY.

Hackett would presumably know the Zorn system, would come cheaper, and provide JC with a bigger target. i think we saw some of his potential in the playoff game where some might say he owned Springs...[/quote]

CJ is already under contract, don't know the details. It'd be a matter of whether or not they wanted to re-up on his deal or give him a new one after the trade. hopefully they've learned their lesson w/Loyd.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=NYCSkin;415911]I like the idea of CJ in burgundy and gold--but I think the price would be steep.

I like DJ Hackett of the Hawks. If he can stay healthy, he's ready to break out. His performance thus far in his career show glimmers of stardom. Kinda reminds me of Santana Moss during his tenure in NY.

Hackett would presumably know the Zorn system, would come cheaper, and provide JC with a bigger target. i think we saw some of his potential in the playoff game where some might say he owned Springs...[/quote]

hackett is decent, he's got the size we need & he doesn't have the ego (yet) to go w/it.

E. Wilford of the Jags is another decent big wr that is a fa.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;415824]If we're going to overpay for someone I would rather see CJ here over Moss.[/QUOTE]

If what [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/sports/football/30superbowl.html?ref=sports"]Tom Brady says[/URL] below is true, I'd have to disagree -- big time!

[QUOTE]“Randy and I are a package deal,” Brady said, smiling. “I don’t want Randy going anywhere. I’m going wherever Randy’s going. He goes, I go.”[/QUOTE]

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Ocho Cinco and Moss are not going anwhere. Moss will sign with the Pats gladly.
Ocho Cinco will get the franchise tag and the war between him and the Bengals will begin.
We need help on our lines before we need yet another high paid WR.
This is why Snder and Cerrato are not very good at building a solid team. We need to start with our lines. But Snyderato are all about getting skill players.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Defensewins;415918]Ocho Cinco and Moss are not going anwhere. Moss will sign with the Pats gladly.
Ocho Cinco will get the franchise tag and the war between him and the Bengals will begin.
We need help on our lines before we need yet another high paid WR.
This is why Snder and Cerrato are not very good at building a solid team. We need to start with our lines. But Snyderato are all about getting skill players.[/quote]

I believe that Ocho C is under contract, in fact I believe that's the whole point of his running his mouth to everyone - see JLC's blog. He's trying to force a trade. If he were a free agent he could just let his agent do the talking behind closed doors.

I don't know if I agree w/DS & Vinny that WR is priority #1 (that's what JLC reports) but it is a need. Moss can't make it through 16 games & he needs speed and/or size on the other size. ARE is a good slot reciever but he can't outrun any db's, he's got to rely on his quicknes to get open & he can't always do that. Plus he doesn't have much size.

I love Thrash but he's strictly a role player for depth at this point. Caldwell & Mix; we'll see what happens w/those guys come august.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

If Snyder wants CJ I be damned if Snyder doesn't get him. Look I would love for CJ to be here in D.C. no one can dictate what Snyder will do but if he is interested and CJ demands a trade it's not much the Bengals can do but franchise him or trade him it will play out soon.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

I'd embrace Ocho Cinco.. Yes he's a bit of a pain in the butt.. Mooch dealt with T.O. in SF so I think he'd be able to handle Chad with no problem, if he's the coach..

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Mattyk72;415824]If we're going to overpay for someone I would rather see CJ here over Moss.[/quote]
Very agreeable, Moss has had one good year in the last 4? CJ is a little younger, and puts up more consistent numbers.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

From what I hear Larry Fitzgerald might also be available.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

CJ's would clearly be the best player available... though R moss would be very close (i'm pretty sure he's a patriot for life though, and his attitude goes to crap pretty quick). fitz is good, but a big step below those two (though he'd easily be the #1 here, due to his consistency).

CJ + briggs + kenny phillips (or a DE) is like pulling 3 pro bowlers out of thin air. if it can happen, it should happen. just don't blow our #1 on a 30 year old WR.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

I don't care what anyone says, I would love to see him playing for us. He may have a mouth on him, but the guy plays good football. I really think the best coach for him, would have been gibbs though.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Do it...Ocho Cinco...trade him for Brandon Lloyd.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Ya know....if the price is right, we need a prototype #1 receiver.
That would have a beautiful trickle down affect.
Moss would be a #2
Randel El would be a #3

That is probably where they would excel long term....not to mention the heat it would take off of Cooley.

In either case, we are either going to go for a protype possesion receiver who is big OR we get another pass catching TE....we will need 2 in the west coast offense.

The advantage of a true #1 receiver is that it puts our other 2 in their correct roles for long term success.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;415879]It sounds like there's more to CJ's behavior than just a passion for winning & celebrating. He's been gradually acting more selfish. The first publicity I remember of it was when the host bengals lost to the evenutal SB champ steelers in 05-06. At halftime of that game it was reported that he threw a tantrum & had to be restrained.

Since then it seems the sideline arguments & overall complaining have increased. He's nowhere near the problem child TO is, but his behavior, as noted by JLC, has alienated teamates. It's too easy to say all the bengals are to blame. Sure, they've had a lot of problem players as far as off field stuff goes, but none of them appears as selfish on the field.[/QUOTE]

I'm not a fan of ego centric WR, either....i am a Monk type guy...anyways...it could be that he is embarrased and "type cast" in the locker room and wants a fresh start....I think this guy is young. Egocentric guys get in a lot of trouble when they are young and make mistakes....it is possible that he may shut his mouth and do his job if he changes teams.

just because there is a TO that is full of crap, doesn't mean guys like Moss and CJ can't learn from their mistakes. I really think he needs a fresh start with a new team...I just hope it aint in the NFC east....who needs him most over here?.....you got it.....Philly.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;415918]
We need help on our lines before we need yet another high paid WR.
This is why Snder and Cerrato are not very good at building a solid team. We need to start with our lines. But Snyderato are all about getting skill players.[/QUOTE]

Excellent Points....exactly why we are speculating about the skins going after a "splashy" WR already under contract.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;415971]From what I hear Larry Fitzgerald might also be available.[/QUOTE]

Are you serious?
I LOVE that guy!

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;416024]Are you serious?
I LOVE that guy![/QUOTE]

L.F. also has a crazy cap figure, so trading for the guy would eat up tons of cap space and a high draft pick. If we were to trade for him and sign him to a new contract, he'd certainly want a massive deal. If you're earning more than $10M per year (yes I said $10M), why would you take anything less than a blockbuster deal? If we are intent on using free agency or trades to get a star wideout, I would vote for trading for Roy Williams, who is reportedly on the block.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Speaking of Williams, did he and Mooch have any problems while in Detroit or were they pretty cool ? I ask this because if they ahd a good relationship then he could be a possibility with CJ being the smokescreen. I would prefer Johnson though, he'd make the games pretty fun besides the possible upside to havinh him line up alongside Moss.