Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[quote=irish;420791]Because now the Skins are in a postition if TC leaves that they are basicaly stuck having to troll the bottom for someone that might be able to play.[/quote]

Turnover is part of the game.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

I see Collins going to STL and my bet is Trent Dilfer will be the QB who comes in back up JC. TD is an UFA and a former pupil of Zorn. Most Wash Post articles on Jim Zorn's hiring contained one or two positive quotes from Trent Dilfer about what a great coach and leader Jim Z is, so Dilfer in Burgandy and Gold is a good bet. Not bad to have someone familiar with the WCO and who's a Super Bowl winning QB as your backup. He's also not a guy who will be itching to be the starter, but will be willing to serve as a mentor for JC. Strong man of faith too who would be a positive locker room influence!

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;420786]Some of these guys have played well and won games in the NFL. I thought Lemon played pretty well considering the circumstances. He throws a nice ball and I remember him playing pretty well against NE. Grey started a few games while Garrard was out won some games for them. McCown can play if needed. I'm not sure about Culpepper anymore. But some of these guys are not as bad as Dilfer or Gus.[/quote]I think the key is to settle on a guy who has had a mild degree of success wherever he goes. Rattay, or Brunell (who we pretty much have to treat as an FA at this point) qualify, as well as Nall or Volek.

Culpepper, if he could play as well here as he did in Oakland this past year, we would have a quality backup. I'm not sure Dante's ego could take a role in this league where he isn't going to compete to be the starter. I think he'd rather retire.

McCown played poorly this year, and Lemon was "meh". He wasn't total crap, but he's definately not part of the solution if your team's starter gets hurt. Quinn Gray was pretty bad behind Garrard. Cost them the New Orleans game.

But I agree that Dilfer, nor Frerotte would help any.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[quote=irish;420795]Its important. If the Skins hadnt had a quality back-up last season I dont think they would have been in the playoffs.[/quote]That's true. If Hollenbach had been the no. 2, we likely would have missed the playoffs.

With that said, what's stopping us from signing the [I]next[/I] Todd Collins?

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

+1 about collins, Overseaskinsfan. He is too old to learn new tricks and I don't seem him anywhere other than where Al Saunders is. As far as Dilfer, I wouldnt mind him as a backup/mentor so much but I also would like to keep Brunell as a backup. He is a really humble guy and a good teacher - I see him as a QB coach some day. I don't see Zorn having more than one veteran QB on the roster though. So if we get Dilfer, then we can say bye bye to Markie-mark.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;420802]That's true. If Hollenbach had been the no. 2, we likely would have missed the playoffs.

With that said, what's stopping us from signing the [I]next[/I] Todd Collins?[/QUOTE]

Hollenbach, heck if Campbell had been the backup they wouldnt have made the playoffs. I hope the Skins do find the next Todd Collins because they are going to need him.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[QUOTE=talk show host;420803]+1 about collins, Overseaskinsfan. He is too old to learn new tricks and I don't seem him anywhere other than where Al Saunders is. As far as Dilfer, I wouldnt mind him as a backup/mentor so much but I also would like to keep Brunell as a backup. He is a really humble guy and a good teacher - I see him as a QB coach some day. I don't see Zorn having more than one veteran QB on the roster though. So if we get Dilfer, then we can say bye bye to Markie-mark.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, Brunell and Dilfer are similar and both would be good in the mentor / coach role. I think Dilfer brings years of working with JZ in Seatle though and that makes him the better option for the Skins now. Brunell would have to learn Zorn's system and then teach, whereas Tilfer's got Zorn down and can start mentoring JC from day one.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

Dilfer would be a good #3 to help mentor JC but I wouldn't want him to see any playing time that's for sure.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

Zorn will be the backup.

Seriously, I saw a clip of him on Sportsnite last night firing balls through into this net with holes for targets, he still has a cannon for an arm.

He was fielding punts pretty well too.


:)



Seriously, Collins could be trusted for the OLD offense, not this one. I don't think he holds any value because the only reason he could play as well as he did late in the year is because he knew Saunders' playbook inside and out. Those days are gone.

I actually think Brunell could do better in a West Coast offense, for one more year. The offense will have a lot of short and quick passes...exactly what we (most of you) hated him for last time he played for us.

He did hold the record for consecutive passes completed for a while, with the short passes that a West Coast passing game consists of.

That said, we need to find a young backup that can stick around for a while, because whether it is Collins or Brunell who stays, we'll probably only get one or two more years from either of them.

Volek would be nice to get. I wouldn't be opposed to Tim Hasselbeck. We know his brother can play our offense if that counts for anything. :D

Derek Anderson is a free agent too, right? He can start somewhere though so he may not want to be our backup. You have to wonder what Cleveland is going to decide between Anderson, who looks GREAT, and the guy they invested so much in with Brady Quinn. Someday, they'll have to decide to stay with Anderson or finally use Quinn. After all of the hype, he won't stay around as #2 forever.

Maybe another possibility could be Charlie Frye. He wasn't THAT bad in Cleveland and was basically traded so Quinn wouldn't be third on the depth chart. He spent most of a season in Zorn's offense and wouldn't be too expensive to trade for.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;420819]Dilfer would be a good #3 to help mentor JC but I wouldn't want him to see any playing time that's for sure.[/QUOTE]

Agreed! Who wants to go into a season wanting to see the backup get playing time? I think there's a good shot he's headed here for that backup role and if he has to play at least he knows the system already. The biggest UFA name with WCO experience is Garcia, but he's not leaving TB and it would freak JC out if he showed up, so Dilfer is a good option given his years with Zorn and positive locker room influence overall.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

Or we could draft someone like the Falcons did with Schaub. Could be a 2nd or thrid rounder. Maybe we start developing QB's and trading them away like Holmgren did with the Packers back in the day.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

I'd say zero chance. Also I don't want him. He is beyond capable in Saunders' offense but there is a reason he was a backup for 10 years and it is because he doesn't have all the tools to do the job. He can make up for it with wit in Saunders' complicated system but put him in a West Coast Offense where scrambling can be very valued and he is simply not that good. I wish him well and would thank him up and down for all he did for us but I just don't think he'd be a quality backup in a WCO.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[QUOTE=irish;420791]Because now the Skins are in a postition if TC leaves that they are basicaly stuck having to troll the bottom for someone that might be able to play.[/QUOTE]

I went through this with somebody once before. Basically, over the past we have drafted young arms at a ratio roughly the league wide average. Hitting on the QB position is truly difficult. Getting a starter is hard enough, drafting a young back-up, though optimal, is pretty damn hard. The few teams that do it, will trade the youngster before losing him to FA in this QB poor league (a' la Matt Shaub or Patrick Ramsey :p ).

How many teams have a young starter AND a young develepmental starter? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anybody. Seriously - who is Eli's back up? Lorenzon (a UFA), would you want him? Rivers? Rothlsesberger? Palmer? Hasselback?

We have drafted QB's to be the back-up or next young guy, that none have panned out is not uncommon.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

Zorn pretty much anointed Campbell the starter in his press conference (in so many words.) So, there won't be an open QB competition I'm pretty confident in that. With that said, there's a good chance Collins will stick around this coming season, but I would doubt anything past that.

Brunell is probably pretty much good as gone as well.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;420764]Would any of you take a chance on Chris Simms or try to lure Jake Plummer out of retirement?

I wouldn't, just wondering if anyone else would[/QUOTE]


Is he still with TB? I like some of the things I've seen from him, espically the game he played against us in TB back in 05. He was also having health issues but I thought he had some promise. If could be close to being as good as his day then............

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

If we scrap JC (which I would not like b/c he has what it takes IMO) then we need to go on ahead and trade up for a quarterback in the draft. I am so sick of old men running teams. Garcia, McNair, Dilfer, Kitna.... these guys were picked up as OLD starters to work as a placemakers. if we do keep collins and brunell around it should be for backup purposes only!!!

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[QUOTE=ecupirate08;420783]Billy Volek has been consistaint and put up huge numbers at times when hes had the chance... No team has ever really given him a fair shake. He could be a sure number 2 in case something happens to JC.[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the Warpath, pirate! Arrrggh!

Volek has put up huge numbers, but has also put up bad numbers as well, so consistant is not his middle name.

As for Collins, WP has an article today about FA and who we go after and who's gone. Collins is as good as gone.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

I hope Gus come back.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

I think Collins is gone as well.Brunell might hang on for 1 more year.If not I say bring in Dilfer,Volek or Mckown.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

I've already assumed that Collins will follow Al Saunders to St. Louis. He's much more valuable in a Saunders offense than he would be in a WCO.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

He's out.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

I think it means Todd Collins will probably be gone. Even if he does stay I do not think he would be as effective as he was in the Coryell offenses that Saunders ran. Collins had ten years to study and learn every intricate detail of his old system but I do not believe he had as long to study the West Coast Offense. But who knows I could be wrong and I never even heard of him until he came here.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;420706][B]The WCO could actually be a good fit for a guy like Collins.[/B] Zorn said his offense will be all about rhythm, and as we saw Collins is definitely a rhythm QB... drop back and get the ball out quickly. I think he could make the transition to this new offense easy enough.

But ultimately I think JC has to be the main focus and he should remain the starter.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, since Collins never seemed to have a lot of zip on his passes, a short, controlled passing attack might be perfectly suited for him. It always looked as though Collins' deep passes took forever to get to their targets.

Collins will go wherever he has the best chance to start. This could very well be the place.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;420696]Just wondering what you guys think will end up happening with Todd Collins. He's supposedly still a priority to be re-signed. Will he stay in order to shake the thought that he can only play in Saunders' system, or at his age will he be less than thrilled about the idea of learning a new system? Would he stay if he's promised anything less than a real shot at the starting job??

Finally, should he be given the opportunity to compete for the starting job here? Remember we're talking about a new head coach with no ties to Campbell. Could there be an open competition? Should there be?[/QUOTE]

I guess it means that he isn't coming. I don't think that Collins gimick is to learn a whole new system. He already knows Saunders system, he should go to St. Louis.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

Todd Collins has been invited to re-sign with the team, and Bram Weinstein reports that, based on his radio interview with Vinny Cerrato, its to be a backup "at least."

[I]Cerrato says the team and Zorn have both talked to free agent QB Todd Collins, the Redskins are hoping to re-sign him to be the back-up at the very least..[/I]

[URL="http://coveringtheredskins.blogspot.com/"]Covering The Redskins[/URL]

This makes a lot of sense. Todd Collins can adapt to any system. He is a very fine quarterback, period, in my opinion, and I believe he demonstrated that without question this past season.

St. Louis is a possible destination for Todd, but he would be on a bad team with a very well established quarterback, and competition at this point for even the number two position on the depth chart.

In Washington, he has the faith of players on the team in his ability whenever he plays, and if Jason were to struggle in learning the new system, there would be a strong option on the roster. Yes, he would be learning too, but his experience will make that a lot easier.

I hope we re-sign Todd. To me, the best thing is to make it an open competition. That way, everyone knows the best player is the starter, and there isn't a feeling that one player is the "chosen one," chosen because of something other than the ability to win a competition. If Jason wins the battle, everyone would feel stronger about him than if he gets installed.

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3180902]ESPN - Career backup Collins steps in seamlessly to lead Redskins - NFL[/url]

Todd Collins should be a high priority for the Redskins to re-sign.

On another board, someone culled these quotes from the article found at the above link:

On Todd Collins:

"One of his shortcomings might have been that he never rocked the boat more to get another shot," Dan Henning said. "That is his nature. He is a very compatible guy to the team, he is easy to coach, I never heard a word of discord from him.

Collins learned offensive coordinator Al Saunders' famously thick playbook when the two were together in Kansas City. Huard still marvels at his former teammate's total recall.

"Did you ever see the movie 'A Beautiful Mind?' This is literally Todd Collins," Huard said. "You could give this guy Al Saunders' 350 plays on a piece of paper and he would read that game plan over, take it home that night and the next day you could ask him about a play and he will give you the personnel, the shift, the movement and the formation for every one of them.

"He can go back in time and remember everything about a conversation, where we were and what we were doing. He's just brilliant."

Collins once led the Bills from a 26-0 deficit to a 37-35 victory during a 1997 game against Indianapolis. He helped that Bills team get to 4-3 before struggling and losing the starting job twice in the season's second half

" He can come up with any type of stat off the top of his head," Springs said. "He might start talking to you about protein or something. You never know what Todd is talking about. He might start talking to you about the stock market or something like that. And then I thought he had said a funny joke, but his face was so serious, you don't know if he's joking."

"He smells everything," Huard said. "He smells the first football he throws at practice. He'll grab it, bring it right by his face, smell the ball, then throw it.

"Every game plan, every newspaper you hand him, before he reads it, he smells it. Instinctively. He has this nose and palate. He remembers the smell of every wine."

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

You gotta wonder what does Todd Collins want at this point in his career exactly. Does he want a chance to start, does he want a ring? Does he want to be recognized as a QB that can prosper in a system that isn't Al Saunders'?

But this is interesting

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/02/todd_collins_ethan_albright_an.html]Todd Collins, Ethan Albright and Derrick Forst News - Redskins Insider[/url]

[QUOTE]Zorn informed Collins that youngster Jason Campbell was the team's starting quarterback for 2008 and remains a cornerstone of their future, but Zorn praised Collins's production last season as well, league sources said, and told the veteran he considers him a strong No. 2 quarterback. Owner Daniel Snyder and executive vice president Vinny Cerrato expressed the same sentiment to many coaching candidates during their prolonged search, believing that Collins could be a quality backup even having to learn the West Coast offense under Zorn and no longer with his mentor, former associate head coach Al Saunders.

Collins, 36, has told friends that he is eager for the opportunity to earn a starting job, but although that is not the case in Washington he is not averse to re-signing. The Redskins have not made an offer to Collins yet - he just completed a two-year free agent deal since in 2006, but team representatives have been on contact with Collins's agent and the sides could hold face-to-face meetings next week at the combine in Indianapolis (the Redskins are likely to meet with the agents for several of their players next week as they continue to renegotiate contracts in order to clear salary cap room)..[/QUOTE]

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

despite having to learn a new offense at 36, he's got the arm for a west coast system ;).

Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?
 

He's been in the league for what 14 years the guy should be calm and good tell me something i don't know