Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

Let the critics run their mouths, as they usually do. Give the man a chance to prove himself before you burn him at the stakes.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;421400]This guy from FoxSports is arguably worse. He describes two different coaches the same way, with completely opposite opinions on the two.

[URL="http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7786432/Putting-wacky-coach-carousel-in-perspective"]FOX Sports on MSN - Adam Schein - Putting wacky coach carousel in perspective[/URL][/quote]

Yeah I noticed that the other day too when I read it. This article and a bunch of others is what prompted my 'psychics and speculation' post. I really think all these writers do it just for ratings and recognition to make themselves stand out in the pack of jack-offs currently writing sports pieces.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I already told you who I think ......and was the worst Giant coach ever..RAY HANLEY ,so in your opinions who was the Redskins worst coach ever?

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

All I have heard is negative comments about the Zorn (HC) signing. It's all over most news outlets, and even ESPN shows like PTI who tried to be positive about it, or at least put a positive spin on it.
A few places have said that the Skins PURPOSELY hired underqualified coaches, knowing they would fail, so they could hire Cowher next year. Not sure where or why they would say that, but I just don't see how these signings are a sign of great things to come for us.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=Giantone;421415]I already told you who I think ......and was the worst Giant coach ever..RAY HANLEY ,so in your opinions who was the Redskins worst coach ever?[/quote]

In recent history it had to be Steve Spurrier. I'd say Richie Petibon, but he was a successful defensive coach in the NFL before failing as a HC. Spurrier was a joke in the pros. And he knew it too.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

People here are insulting Adam Schein for his unbiased view of what has happened with the Skins, but fact is, it's his opinion. And let's face it, he's not far off. We have all at one time or another said: "WHAT?" Not a single one of us jumped for joy with the signing Zorn, not a single one of us was thrilled with the promotion shortly after the hire, and not a single one of us was happy when he called us the "marroon and yellow". In fact, I thought there was a poll about what we all wanted, and it was overwhelming that we wanted continuity in our coaching. Well, DS missed the memo on that one. Not only did he fire one of the greatest coaches we have had (GW) he replaced him with a no one. Now we're also hiring D3 coaches??? If this doesn't deserve a WTF! comment, then what does?
This guy is right in saying what he is saying...will he be wrong and Zorn will surprise everone??? Damn I hope so, but commenting on it and spinning it as dumb is not only good for his ratings, it's to be expected. DS will have to rely on a shitload of luck for this to work in our favor.
People bet on odds. The odds of Zorn becoming a super bowl caliber coach is slim. DS should know this, but apparently he is too busy looking for YES men like Cerrato. Hey, I'm all for giving guy chances, and I obviously hope Zorn works out. Like sheriff, I will reserve my judgement of Zorn until I see his coaching ability. But it doesn't make the moves any less dumb! Schein is on the money for writing it, and let's hope Zorn makes him eat his words.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;421417]In recent history it had to be Steve Spurrier. I'd say Richie Petibon, but he was a successful defensive coach in the NFL before failing as a HC. Spurrier was a joke in the pros. And he knew it too.[/QUOTE]

Ray Handley- .438 (14-18)
Steve Spurrier- .375 (12-20)
Bill McPeak- .313 (21-46-3) (1961-1965)
Mike Nixon- .182 (4-18-2) (1959-1960) *-had a 2-12 record in 65 with Pitt.

I would have gladly took Handley over Spurrier or McPeak, or Nixon.

ps- petitbon wasn't really given the chance. He inherited an old team that needed rebuilding, and no patience was granted to him.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;421419]People here are insulting Adam Schein for his unbiased view of what has happened with the Skins, but fact is, it's his opinion. [B]And let's face it, he's not far off. We have all at one time or another said: "WHAT?" Not a single one of us jumped for joy with the signing Zorn, not a single one of us was thrilled with the promotion shortly after the hire[/B], and not a single one of us was happy when he called us the "marroon and yellow". In fact, I thought there was a poll about what we all wanted, and it was overwhelming that we wanted continuity in our coaching. Well, DS missed the memo on that one. Not only did he fire one of the greatest coaches we have had (GW) he replaced him with a no one. Now we're also hiring D3 coaches??? If this doesn't deserve a WTF! comment, then what does?
This guy is right in saying what he is saying...will he be wrong and Zorn will surprise everone??? Damn I hope so, but commenting on it and spinning it as dumb is not only good for his ratings, it's to be expected. DS will have to rely on a shitload of luck for this to work in our favor.
People bet on odds. The odds of Zorn becoming a super bowl caliber coach is slim. DS should know this, but apparently he is too busy looking for YES men like Cerrato. Hey, I'm all for giving guy chances, and I obviously hope Zorn works out. Like sheriff, I will reserve my judgement of Zorn until I see his coaching ability. But it doesn't make the moves any less dumb! Schein is on the money for writing it, and let's hope Zorn makes him eat his words.[/QUOTE]

Please don't speak for everybody Jsarno, because I for one was very happy with the hiring. In fact, I never once displayed a displeasure for the choice. While I wouldn't have hated the move to get Fassel, this hire has made me very excited.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;421424]Please don't speak for everybody Jsarno, because I for one was very happy with the hiring. In fact, I never once displayed a displeasure for the choice. While I wouldn't have hated the move to get Fassel, this hire has made me very excited.[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't beleive you, but I will trust what you're saying. No one even knew Zorn was on the radar. So [b]most of us [/b]said "What?"

Why did this signing make you excited? A guy with no experience as a coodinator being our HC making anyone exciting is surprising to me. Please explain.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I'd honestly like to know WTF it matters whether a guy was a coordinator? Anyone have any reasonable explanation of why a HC HAS to have been a coordinator to become a good HC? HC is more about leading and less about game planning since you have an entire staff of people to do it. HCs give direction and lead. So I don't give one little bit of sh*t whether he was an OC and I think those that do don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421429]I'd honestly like to know WTF it matters whether a guy was a coordinator? Anyone have any reasonable explanation of why a HC HAS to have been a coordinator to become a good HC? HC is more about leading and less about game planning since you have an entire staff of people to do it. HCs give direction and lead. So I don't give one little bit of sh*t whether he was an OC and I think those that do don't know what the hell they are talking about.[/QUOTE]

Well, how about asst head coach then? Or how about a HC at ANY LEVEL?

You don't hire the CEO of a company out of the mailroom. There is a reason people need to build experience...to ignore it is not wise.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=jsarno;421432]Well, how about asst head coach then? Or how about a HC at ANY LEVEL?

You don't hire the CEO of a company out of the mailroom. There is a reason people need to build experience...to ignore it is not wise.[/quote]

Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin, and Jack Del Rio were not OC's or DC's before getting their chance at being the HC. They all do have one thing in common though. They were all players first.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421429]I'd honestly like to know WTF it matters whether a guy was a coordinator? Anyone have any reasonable explanation of why a HC HAS to have been a coordinator to become a good HC? HC is more about leading and less about game planning since you have an entire staff of people to do it. HCs give direction and lead. So I don't give one little bit of sh*t whether he was an OC and I think those that do don't know what the hell they are talking about.[/QUOTE]


Zorn is actually coming into a great situation. He has a very experienced staff to help him with the transition, including a former HC whom he will work very closely with just by the nature of the position he coaches.

I think some people are making too much of an issue over the fact he hasn't been a coordinator, or hasn't called plays in a game at this level or been in control of an entire NFL roster. Many things associated with being a HC for anyone who has never done it before becomes learning on the fly. I think his biggest hurdle will be dealing with the media on a daily basis.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;421426]Well, I don't beleive you, but I will trust what you're saying. No one even knew Zorn was on the radar. So [b]most of us [/b]said "What?"[/quote]

Well, just don't believe me then, but don't speak for others please.

[QUOTE=jsarno;421426]
Why did this signing make you excited? [B]A guy with no experience as a coodinator[/B] being our HC making anyone exciting is surprising to me. Please explain.[/QUOTE]

Go read Zorn's bio with your own eyes. Don't take the media's word for it. It so happens that Zorn has been an offensive coordinator, albeit not in the NFL, but you didn't specifiy. Zorn is a very organized person, much like Gibbs. In fact, he has a lot of Joe Gibbs' characteristics. I also happen to be very excited by the thought of having the WCO here in Washington. I believe we happen to have most of the right players for this particular offense. Furthermore, the guy has done a great job molding Matt Hasselbeck into a pretty good quarterback, wouldn't you agree? If he can do the same for Jason Campbell, all the better. Finally, Jim Zorn is a player's coach. He will listen to his players much like how Gibbs would do, and this will provide a since of continuity as well.

There are plenty of reasons to be at least cautiously optimistic, but never once I have ever displayed any displeasure or negativity toward this hiring. I am on the Jim Zorn bandwagon all the way to the Super Bowl or until the wheels fall off. Which ever happens first.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;421419]People here are insulting Adam Schein for his unbiased view of what has happened with the Skins, but fact is, it's his opinion. And let's face it, he's not far off. We have all at one time or another said: "WHAT?" Not a single one of us jumped for joy with the signing Zorn, not a single one of us was thrilled with the promotion shortly after the hire, and not a single one of us was happy when he called us the "marroon and yellow". In fact, I thought there was a poll about what we all wanted, and it was overwhelming that we wanted continuity in our coaching. Well, DS missed the memo on that one. Not only did he fire one of the greatest coaches we have had (GW) he replaced him with a no one. Now we're also hiring D3 coaches??? If this doesn't deserve a WTF! comment, then what does?
This guy is right in saying what he is saying...will he be wrong and Zorn will surprise everone??? Damn I hope so, but commenting on it and spinning it as dumb is not only good for his ratings, it's to be expected. DS will have to rely on a shitload of luck for this to work in our favor.
People bet on odds. The odds of Zorn becoming a super bowl caliber coach is slim. DS should know this, but apparently he is too busy looking for YES men like Cerrato. Hey, I'm all for giving guy chances, and I obviously hope Zorn works out. Like sheriff, I will reserve my judgement of Zorn until I see his coaching ability. But it doesn't make the moves any less dumb! Schein is on the money for writing it, and let's hope Zorn makes him eat his words.[/QUOTE]



I think that Zorn probably would have benefitted from another year of not having to be head coach. I don't know that he's quite ready and this is not an easy team to get your start with. Zorn as an offensive coordinator/QB coach is definitely a great move. As Head Coach? I think it can be very good but how soon and will it be for the Redskins?

However, here are the problems with your post above. The problems I have at least. The issue I have with Schein's piece is that he lambasts the Redskins for hiring a head coach who has never been a coordinator. Fine, whatever. I don't think it's such a huge deal but that is his opinion. Ok, well then don't follow that with comments about the new Ravens coach saying he applauds the great, out of the box thinking of not hiring a coordinator.

I won't go into the whole Williams debate, but I will say that technically Greg Blache replaced Williams. And Blache is not a no one.

To get all agitated about who was hired to be an offensive assistant? Reedychulouz. Bill Belichick was, if I recall correctly, an offensive assistant straight out of college (I could be wrong though).

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=angryssg;421440]Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin, and Jack Del Rio were not OC's or DC's before getting their chance at being the HC. They all do have one thing in common though. They were all players first.[/quote]

Wasn't Tomlin DC in Minn before becoming Steelers HC?

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;421464]Wasn't Tomlin DC in Minn before becoming Steelers HC?[/QUOTE]

He was. Mike Tice was a line coach though

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;421449]Well, just don't believe me then, but don't speak for others please.



Go read Zorn's bio with your own eyes. Don't take the media's word for it. It so happens that Zorn has been an offensive coordinator, albeit not in the NFL, but you didn't specifiy. Zorn is a very organized person, much like Gibbs. In fact, he has a lot of Joe Gibbs' characteristics. I also happen to be very excited by the thought of having the WCO here in Washington. I believe we happen to have most of the right players for this particular offense. Furthermore, the guy has done a great job molding Matt Hasselbeck into a pretty good quarterback, wouldn't you agree? If he can do the same for Jason Campbell, all the better. Finally, Jim Zorn is a player's coach. He will listen to his players much like how Gibbs would do, and this will provide a since of continuity as well.

There are plenty of reasons to be at least cautiously optimistic, but never once I have ever displayed any displeasure or negativity toward this hiring. I am on the Jim Zorn bandwagon all the way to the Super Bowl or until the wheels fall off. Which ever happens first.[/QUOTE]


Plus when people speak about continuity they think only of the coaches. Zorn will have the benefit of an entire infrastructure being in place, medical and training staffs, all the behind the scenes personell we seldom hear about. I would think having all these systems already in place would be a tremendous asset for incoming coach with such limited time to assemble a new staff before serious work needs to be done.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I don't have a problem with kawakami criticizing the hire or the process. A lot of people have done that, they are entitled to their opinion, and while we all certainly hope they are proven wrong there were some strange things about the way it went down.

The problem I have is with him telling us that Zorn isn't fit to be a headcoach because he wasn't impressive enough the one time they met. What? So almost a decade of productive work means nothing because you thought a guy didn't cut a good first impression the one time you met him? That is ass stupid. He was probably, like me, just trying to figure out who the hell tim kawakami is.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I think Zorn will do a good job. I'm glad to see that we have most of our draft choices this year. Someone at Redskins Park has seen the light. Maybe the lesson is learned finally. Monk and Green were our draft choices, not speculative free agent cast offs from another team.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=djnemo65;421485]I don't have a problem with kawakami criticizing the hire or the process. A lot of people have done that, they are entitled to their opinion, and while we all certainly hope they are proven wrong there were some strange things about the way it went down.

The problem I have is with him telling us that Zorn isn't fit to be a headcoach because he wasn't impressive enough the one time they met. What? So almost a decade of productive work means nothing because you thought a guy didn't cut a good first impression the one time you met him? That is ass stupid. He was probably, like me, just trying to figure out who the hell tim kawakami is.[/quote]


Exactly! My thoughts as well.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I guess we will find out come August fellas

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

LOL I love some of the responses on his blog. Well I guess he is doing his job as an opinion writer because a shit-ton of people are reading this article and talking about it.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

My favorite response:

[I]# Whit Says:
February 11th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

I’m really glad that I read this article because now I can save myself the needless pain and suffering of reading another one by you, Tim. Seriously, I won’t even bash your opinion, your pathetic use of words strung hopelessly together as sentences was enough to render the right side of my brain completely useless for the next 30-45 minutes. I’ve got some friends up in the Bay area who could recommend some really top notch sixth grade level writing classes for you, if you don’t mind a couple hours of homework each night and the occasional pop quiz.

Of course, what can you really expect from a guy relegated to a blog on the gold standard of American journalism that is The San Jose Mercury News. I heard Webster’s is going to name Tim Kawakami as a new synonym for irrelevant in their next edition. I don’t want to be mean, but I’ve read Myspace pages with more intellectual insight than this piece. Seriously, Tim, when your readership breaks into double digits, shoot me an email. I’ll send you a box of cookies and a one way ticket out of the zeroth dimension of sports journalism that you’re currently wallowing in.
[/I]

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;421432]Well, how about asst head coach then? Or how about a HC at ANY LEVEL?

You don't hire the CEO of a company out of the mailroom. There is a reason people need to build experience...to ignore it is not wise.[/QUOTE]

I would respectfully disagree but the heck with it. I imply don't think you know what the hell you are talking about. You are speaking in broad generalities in which it seems apparently want to simply ignore facts and forget what you do know and what you don't.

I think anyone who wants to say this is a bad hire because he has never been a HC or OC before in the NFL is making a dumb argument based in no fact or reason. There is simply no eveidence that points to this being a bad hire. It is a completely unknown commodity.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

My post awaiting "moderation":

[I]# hooskins Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
February 12th, 2008 at 8:47 pm

Tim,

People have summed it up quite well, but this is just a terrible article. I am a journalist and editor who understands this is an option based blog, but at least get your facts right. I am sure you are happy you are getting quite a bit of hits, so hey whatever gets at your jollies.

Mr. Mully,

Although I admire your defense for Tim here you cannot argue that this blog post was poorly researched. Simple Google searches show many in the NFL felt Zorn is up and coming. Also as pointed out Tim is 100 percent wrong in the fact that Zorn left coaching for a while. You cannot argue versus those points Mully, I am sorry.

As for the racist remarks, I agree they are terrible. But in your anger you yourself ruined your credibility by extrapolating your assumptions of racism to an entire fanbase based on a few comments. If you know basic statistics this is a ridiculous assumptions, because the sample size is clearly not statistically significant. If you want to talk about being fair and credible, you yourself must follow the rules rather than being hypocritical.

So basically Tim made blatant errors, which have nothing to do with this being a blog. Also you have made yourself look quite silly, and irrational. I look forward to any response from either you Mr. Mully or Tim, but I highly doubt either.
[/I]

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;421440]Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin, and Jack Del Rio were not OC's or DC's before getting their chance at being the HC. They all do have one thing in common though. They were all players first.[/QUOTE]

Not to pee in your cheerios angry but:
Cowher was defensive coodinator of the chiefs 89-91.
Tomlin was defensive coodinator of the vikes in 06.
Del Rio was defensive coodinator of the panthers 01-02.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I would like to comment on this thread but I don't want to jump the gun. Maybe he will work out... I honestly don't care who coaches they can hire Martha Stewart for all I care just as long as we ****ing win!!!!!!

HAIL!!!!!!!!

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421462]I think that Zorn probably would have benefitted from another year of not having to be head coach. I don't know that he's quite ready and this is not an easy team to get your start with. Zorn as an offensive coordinator/QB coach is definitely a great move. As Head Coach? I think it can be very good but how soon and will it be for the Redskins?[/quote]

I agree he would have benefitted from a year as OC, and I thought the [b]original[/b] signing as OC was a good one. Just sceptical about the HC spot.

[quote]However, here are the problems with your post above. The problems I have at least. The issue I have with Schein's piece is that he lambasts the Redskins for hiring a head coach who has never been a coordinator. Fine, whatever. I don't think it's such a huge deal but that is his opinion. Ok, well then don't follow that with comments about the new Ravens coach saying he applauds the great, out of the box thinking of not hiring a coordinator. [/quote]

You are absolutely right about the guy saying it was bad for us, but not for Baltimore. That is something I am not defending, just defending his comments about us.

[quote]I won't go into the whole Williams debate, but I will say that technically Greg Blache replaced Williams. And Blache is not a no one.[/quote]

Well, I would agree with you here, but I am just not convinced that Blache can run the D like GW. GW was the the REAL DC, not Blache.

[quote]To get all agitated about who was hired to be an offensive assistant? Reedychulouz. Bill Belichick was, if I recall correctly, an offensive assistant straight out of college (I could be wrong though).[/QUOTE]

I am not completely agitated over that, but I feel you need experience when your HC has none. Hiring a D3 coach is not wise.

ps- Belichick was hired as a "special assistant" in Baltimore in 75, and served under MANY titles in his career, including: Assistant special teams coach, special teams coach, Wide receivers coach, tight ends coach, defensive assistant, linebackers coach, assistant head coach, defensive backs coach, and of course, DC for 6 years. He was in the NFL from 75-90 before getting a shot at head coaching in Cleveland. The reason he is so successful (minus the cheating) is because he's done it all. (one of the reasons anyway)

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421508]I would respectfully disagree but the heck with it. I imply don't think you know what the hell you are talking about. You are speaking in broad generalities in which it seems apparently want to simply ignore facts and forget what you do know and what you don't.

I think anyone who wants to say this is a bad hire because he has never been a HC or OC before in the NFL is making a dumb argument based in no fact or reason. There is simply no eveidence that points to this being a bad hire. It is a completely unknown commodity.[/QUOTE]

To some extent you are correct, there is no evidence that points to this being a bad hire...why? Cause we are blazing a new path. Everyone that has been mentioned to this point (Reid, Cowher etc) have had more experience than Zorn before taking over. Zorn was never even a HC at ANY level EVER. The only time he was ever on OC was at Utah feakin St.
I was all for letting him be the OC...he earned that spot with what he did with Hasselbeck, but a HC spot he hasn't come close to earning.

I do fail to see where I have been speaking in generalities. If you have been following my posts, I have backed up most of them with facts and stats that most here didn't know.
I'm all for blindly following the skins and what they decide to do, hell I practically invented it this year, but don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about when I have provided coach after coachs history and shown that we really are blazing a new path with Zorn. What we did was unheard of. I have tried to find any coach that has had a similar past and can't find it. (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I have left this question to everyone for days and no one has come up with a single person...Reid came the closest but he was assistant head coach.) Just cause you don't like what I am saying is no reason to call it a dumb argument. And to say I am ignoring facts...well sir, I have supplied fact after fact...unsure what "facts" I ignoring. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else, or you're looking in the mirror while talking, either way, you need to pay more attention to my posts, and not take them so personally cause I am unsure of this hire. I am more than willing to have constuctive banter with anyone about this subject, but no one has supplied any good reason this is a good hire minus what he did with Hasselbeck. Well, I have already admitted he will be good for Campbell...but as an HC?????

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;421521]I agree he would have benefitted from a year as OC, and I thought the [b]original[/b] signing as OC was a good one. Just sceptical about the HC spot.[/QUOTE]

Understood

[QUOTE]You are absolutely right about the guy saying it was bad for us, but not for Baltimore. That is something I am not defending, just defending his comments about us.[/QUOTE]

Ok, and I'm saying his whole piece is indefensible because he's inconsistent

[QUOTE]Well, I would agree with you here, but I am just not convinced that Blache can run the D like GW. GW was the the REAL DC, not Blache.[/QUOTE]

Fine, but Blache does have experience at that level. Plus, it has been noted (can probably look it up) that Blache's influence in simplifying the defense went a long way toward the unit rebounding this year off 2006

[QUOTE]I am not completely agitated over that, but I feel you need experience when your HC has none. Hiring a D3 coach is not wise.

ps- Belichick was hired as a "special assistant" in Baltimore in 75, and served under MANY titles in his career, including: Assistant special teams coach, special teams coach, Wide receivers coach, tight ends coach, defensive assistant, linebackers coach, assistant head coach, defensive backs coach, and of course, DC for 6 years. He was in the NFL from 75-90 before getting a shot at head coaching in Cleveland. The reason he is so successful (minus the cheating) is because he's done it all.[/QUOTE]

They've got experience through several members of their coaching staff. I don't see why the concern about who the offensive assistant is. He's not being hired to be the offensive coordinator.

Ok, so he was "special assistant" The point was he got his start somewhere and he got it right out of college. As you say, he's done it all but at one point he was a nobody serving as an assistant

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421525]



They've got experience through several members of their coaching staff. I don't see why the concern about who the offensive assistant is. He's not being hired to be the offensive coordinator. [/quote]

Well, we seem to agree on most everything except these two things.
While he's not being hired as OC, what's the point of hiring a guy as a coach if it's a meaningless position? It was a poor choice to hire a D3 coach to help coach an offense when the HC has no experience. They should have gotten someone to be more of a consultant and help where Zorn lacks. Of course we will never speak of this again due to the fact that it's an obscure position.

[quote]Ok, so he was "special assistant" The point was he got his start somewhere and he got it right out of college. As you say, he's done it all but at one point he was a nobody serving as an assistant[/QUOTE]

A lot of people got spots out of college. Belichick got a lowly position as a special assistant, so I am unsure of your point. If it's to say that our lovely D3 coach got a job out of college as well...well that I am not arguing. What I am arguing is that Zorn has no experience so hire someone that does to help aid Zorn. That wasn't the case with Belichick...and had we still had Gibbs, I could care less about the chance we are taking on this guy. To be honest, I am more upset about Zorn than I am anything else. The other stuff is just adding insult to injury. If we hire an OC with no experience, then depending on his experience, I am really not going to be happy.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;421524]To some extent you are correct, there is no evidence that points to this being a bad hire...why? Cause we are blazing a new path. Everyone that has been mentioned to this point (Reid, Cowher etc) have had more experience than Zorn before taking over. Zorn was never even a HC at ANY level EVER. The only time he was ever on OC was at Utah feakin St.
I was all for letting him be the OC...he earned that spot with what he did with Hasselbeck, but a HC spot he hasn't come close to earning.

I do fail to see where I have been speaking in generalities. If you have been following my posts, I have backed up most of them with facts and stats that most here didn't know.
I'm all for blindly following the skins and what they decide to do, hell I practically invented it this year, but don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about when I have provided coach after coachs history and shown that we really are blazing a new path with Zorn. What we did was unheard of. I have tried to find any coach that has had a similar past and can't find it. (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I have left this question to everyone for days and no one has come up with a single person...Reid came the closest but he was assistant head coach.) Just cause you don't like what I am saying is no reason to call it a dumb argument. And to say I am ignoring facts...well sir, I have supplied fact after fact...unsure what "facts" I ignoring. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else, or you're looking in the mirror while talking, either way, you need to pay more attention to my posts, and not take them so personally cause I am unsure of this hire. I am more than willing to have constuctive banter with anyone about this subject, but no one has supplied any good reason this is a good hire minus what he did with Hasselbeck. Well, I have already admitted he will be good for Campbell...but as an HC?????[/QUOTE]

Similar past? Well Andy Reid, but I know you don't accept that because of the title of Assistant Head Coach. Though who really knows what that meant. Could have just been a nominal title.

Mike Tice would be another example.

As is Mike Ditka, I'm almost positive

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;421527]Well, we seem to agree on most everything except these two things.
While he's not being hired as OC, what's the point of hiring a guy as a coach if it's a meaningless position? It was a poor choice to hire a D3 coach to help coach an offense when the HC has no experience. They should have gotten someone to be more of a consultant and help where Zorn lacks. Of course we will never speak of this again due to the fact that it's an obscure position.



A lot of people got spots out of college. Belichick got a lowly position as a special assistant, so I am unsure of your point. If it's to say that our lovely D3 coach got a job out of college as well...well that I am not arguing. What I am arguing is that Zorn has no experience so hire someone that does to help aid Zorn. That wasn't the case with Belichick...and had we still had Gibbs, I could care less about the chance we are taking on this guy. To be honest, I am more upset about Zorn than I am anything else. The other stuff is just adding insult to injury. If we hire an OC with no experience, then depending on his experience, I am really not going to be happy.[/QUOTE]

Well, what sort of experience are you talking about? Head coaching experience? Ok, you've got Joe Bugel. NFL coaching experience? Bugel, Breaux, Simmons-just to name three. Not counting guys like Hixon, Mitchell, and Sherman Smith here.

Look, I know you're not one of those complain just to complain guys but the fuss over our offensive assistant strikes me as such

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421528]Similar past? Well Andy Reid, but I know you don't accept that because of the title of Assistant Head Coach. Though who really knows what that meant. Could have just been a nominal title.

Mike Tice would be another example.

As is Mike Ditka, I'm almost positive[/QUOTE]

Ditka was assistant head coach for Landry for 9 years.

You are right (the first person to name someone BTW) about Tice. He was OLine coach for the Vikes before taking over on an interim basis when Green was fired.
Tice would be a good comparison...good job thinking of someone, I couldn't.

BTW, Tice was 32-33 with Minnesota, not good, but not bad.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;421532]Ditka was assistant head coach for Landry for 9 years.

You are right (the first person to name someone BTW) about Tice. He was OLine coach for the Vikes before taking over on an interim basis when Green was fired.
Tice would be a good comparison...good job thinking of someone, I couldn't.

BTW, Tice was 32-33 with Minnesota, not good, but not bad.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure he was assistant head coach? I thought he was just an assistant and special teams coach

By the way, it's like the 3rd time I've mentioned Tice :)

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421529]Well, what sort of experience are you talking about? Head coaching experience? Ok, you've got Joe Bugel. NFL coaching experience? Bugel, Breaux, Simmons-just to name three. Not counting guys like Hixon, Mitchell, and Sherman Smith here.

Look, I know you're not one of those complain just to complain guys but the fuss over our offensive assistant strikes me as such[/QUOTE]

You make a good point about the others that have experience. And like I have said, I don't really have the problem with the signing of the offensive assistant position, just really scratching my head as to why hire anyone with no experience at even a d1 school to back up a guy that has never been an HC at ANY level. This is more about Zorn.
I am failing to see the point of that hire though. Like I have said, I am really more concerned about the Zorn hiring (HC, not OC). DO you really think Bugel / Breaux and Company can get Zorn up to speed and make him successful when we barely got to 9 wins with a hall of fame coach, an amazing DC and a once studly OC? I have concerns.
I have obviously made too many comments about our D3 coach hire, I don't mean to take away from my concerns about Zorn by making those comments.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421533]Are you sure he was assistant head coach? I thought he was just an assistant and special teams coach

By the way, it's like the 3rd time I've mentioned Tice :)[/QUOTE]

I remember an interview with Ditka talking about his coaching with Landry, and yes he was an Assistant Head Coach by his words. I'm sure he could have over played his position, but he was a vital cog in the wheel that was the dallas cowboys. Back then, the titles weren't as important anyway.

Have you seriously mentioned Tice that many times? My bad man, I don't see how I missed that. That was a good call.
Was there anyone else you mentioned that I missed?

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;421534]You make a good point about the others that have experience. And like I have said, I don't really have the problem with the signing of the offensive assistant position, just really scratching my head as to why hire anyone with no experience at even a d1 school to back up a guy that has never been an HC at ANY level. This is more about Zorn.
I am failing to see the point of that hire though. Like I have said, I am really more concerned about the Zorn hiring (HC, not OC). DO you really think Bugel / Breaux and Company can get Zorn up to speed and make him successful when we barely got to 9 wins with a hall of fame coach, an amazing DC and a once studly OC? I have concerns.
I have obviously made too many comments about our D3 coach hire, I don't mean to take away from my concerns about Zorn by making those comments.[/QUOTE]

I don't know how long it will take. But I think he has some solid coaches to help him through, and Holmgren's coaching tree is pretty solid overall and regardless of him not being a coordinator in Seattle the fact is that he was side by side with Holmgren for several years and certainly must have learned a lot from him.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;421536]I don't know how long it will take. But I think he has some solid coaches to help him through, and Holmgren's coaching tree is pretty solid overall and regardless of him not being a coordinator in Seattle the fact is that he was side by side with Holmgren for several years and certainly must have learned a lot from him.[/quote]

This is not a shot just a question but How many super bowls have they won?