Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;422818]Like just about everything else, skepticism is good in moderate doses. At a certain point, however, skepticism turns into paranoid lunacy.[/quote]

I'm a pretty skeptical person. One of those "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see" kinda guys. I know its related to trust issues I have, so I have trouble swallowing any story.

I just don't make the connection between being skeptical and being disrespectful.

Re: Loose Change
 

Remember, Most of Germany under Hitler's rule was PRO Hitler.

Again, who are the sheep. Is it the people who want to question the government, or the people who don't question.

The question really boils down to, Do you trust your gov't to tell you the truth. Should we be told the truth. Could the truth cause a panic. Could the truth cause a revolution. Could the truth make us all go, Duh we already knew that.

I think it is healthy to question how our government is ran. When we stop questioning we are one step closer to sheep.

And I think his question was "Make you think a little, huh?"

Most of the replies to this message were flat out attack calling JGLOTR a Moron.

How many people here think there have been suspicious of moments in our Governments history. Lets see, Pearl Harbor. JFK Assassination. Now weather Roosevelt knew they were coming or Oswald acted alone, did you stop and think about it.


My opinion on the film. Definitely made me think. After reading through all of the other links, made me think some more. Is it possible, maybe. Is it probable, maybe not. Either way there are always some strange coincidents that will raise eyebrows.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;422821]I'm a pretty skeptical person. One of those "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see" kinda guys. I know its related to trust issues I have, so I have trouble swallowing any story.

I just don't make the connection between being skeptical and being disrespectful.[/QUOTE]

Well, to further SGG's point, honest skepticism is fine good and healthy. But, skepticism that refuses to relent can be disrespectful to the opposing view [I]and[/I] to those that support it.

Question Authority. But if authority answers, do them the courtesy of listening. If you do not, then you are acting with the same arrogance towards authority and towards those that support the authority that you would assign to the authorities themselves.

The irrational skeptic is arrogant and disrespectful at heart - "I know you are lying, no matter what evidence exists. You can't fool me b/c I am, essentially, smarter than you."

In situations like 9/11, where first responders risked their lives, to continue to assert a conspiracy and to question the real cause of the act is to say to those who risked their lives - you were duped, you were played the fool, your "heroism" was nothing more than a show for others.

This was an act of war. Palestinians literally danced in the streets at the news and al-quieda has claimed, proudly, that it was their actions that did this. The first responders actions were not manipulated acts, but authentic acts of heroism.

Crap like "Loose Change" attempts to cheapen those facts by perverting the reality of the situation.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=drew54;422825]Remember, Most of Germany under Hitler's rule was PRO Hitler.

Again, who are the sheep. Is it the people who want to question the government, or the people who don't question.

The question really boils down to, Do you trust your gov't to tell you the truth. Should we be told the truth. Could the truth cause a panic. Could the truth cause a revolution. Could the truth make us all go, Duh we already knew that.

I think it is healthy to question how our government is ran. When we stop questioning we are one step closer to sheep.

And I think his question was "Make you think a little, huh?"

Most of the replies to this message were flat out attack calling JGLOTR a Moron.

How many people here think there have been suspicious of moments in our Governments history. Lets see, Pearl Harbor. JFK Assassination. Now weather Roosevelt knew they were coming or Oswald acted alone, did you stop and think about it.


My opinion on the film. Definitely made me think. After reading through all of the other links, made me think some more. Is it possible, maybe. Is it probable, maybe not. Either way there are always some strange coincidents that will raise eyebrows.[/QUOTE]

I think, therefore I am. If silly conspiracy theories make you think, great. Can we find "suspicious" moments throughout history - sure. Will fools be led to think foolish thoughts b/c of them? Yes. Will wise men spend lifetimes contemplating them? Probably not.

The mere fact that something "makes you think" does not mean it should be a) given credence; or b) disseminated as thoughtful prose. In each case, foolish or misleading statements can cause considerable harm - by baselessly impugning reputations, by inhibiting people from acting, by spreading calumny, etc.

Did this foolish video make me think. Yes - it made me think, "What a piece of crap, I hope somebody has done the research on it so I don't have to." A brief search and, wa-laa, that which I thought was confirmed. Do I ever need to think about it again? No. As others have done the research, [I]no one[/I] ever need think about it again.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=drew54;422825]Remember, Most of Germany under Hitler's rule was PRO Hitler.

Again, who are the sheep. Is it the people who want to question the government, or the people who don't question.

The question really boils down to, Do you trust your gov't to tell you the truth. Should we be told the truth. Could the truth cause a panic. Could the truth cause a revolution. Could the truth make us all go, Duh we already knew that.

[B] I think it is healthy to question how our government is ran. When we stop questioning we are one step closer to sheep.

And I think his question was "Make you think a little, huh?"

Most of the replies to this message were flat out attack calling JGLOTR a Moron.[/B]

How many people here think there have been suspicious of moments in our Governments history. Lets see, Pearl Harbor. JFK Assassination. Now weather Roosevelt knew they were coming or Oswald acted alone, did you stop and think about it.


My opinion on the film. Definitely made me think. After reading through all of the other links, made me think some more. Is it possible, maybe. Is it probable, maybe not. Either way there are always some strange coincidents that will raise eyebrows.[/quote]

Wow. The first person to come on, besides Dynamite Rave, and NOT give me a buncha shit for what I brought up.

Unreal.

Re: Loose Change
 

Here's the thing though - the second thing you brought up was "After watching that video, I feel like I have been duped and violated by my own country."

Loose Change was originally planned as a work of [i]fiction[/i]. It was then marketed as a documentary. This is like me being afraid to go camping in Maryland after seeing [i]The Blair Witch Project[/i]. Fiction, presented as documentary.

I am afraid to go camping in Maryland, by the way. Not because of ghosts, but because of deer ticks.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;422830]Wow. The first person to come on, besides Dynamite Rave, and NOT give me a buncha shit for what I brought up.

Unreal.[/QUOTE]

Look, you posted a video that has been debunked as a work of fiction. You then act as if this could possibly be true which, for the reasons I stated above, is incredibly disrespectful to those who died. When the foolishness of your initial post was brought to light by SS (with links showing how foolish it was), you attack people for pointing out the ridiculousness of your initial post AND clearly show you haven't done any research on the actual video ("How can you deny the physical evidence", etc.).

If you make ridiculous statements and tout them as thought provoking, expect to get ridiculed.

Re: Loose Change
 

Also, if you look both SS and Buster came back with points to show you the error of your ways. Buster make have called you an idiot, but, hey, he did it w/ respectfully and limited to the precondition that "if you believe this stuff". You responded, relying only the debunked video, that they were baseless in their indignation for simply disageeing with you. The argument devolved from that point on.

Your original post was idiotic and it was rightfully classified as such. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee;422843]Here's the thing though - the second thing you brought up was "After watching that video, I feel like I have been duped and violated by my own country."

Loose Change was originally planned as a work of [i]fiction[/i]. It was then marketed as a documentary. This is like me being afraid to go camping in Maryland after seeing [i]The Blair Witch Project[/i]. Fiction, presented as documentary.

I am afraid to go camping in Maryland, by the way. Not because of ghosts, but because of deer ticks.[/QUOTE]

Wuss! :)

Blair Witch Project was kind of surreal to watch, because my family, friends and I used to go to the park where it was filmed all the time.

Re: Loose Change
 

I mean I liked Loose Change(fan of conspriracy theories) but it was fiction.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;422826]Well, to further SGG's point, honest skepticism is fine good and healthy. But, skepticism that refuses to relent can be disrespectful to the opposing view [I]and[/I] to those that support it.

Question Authority. But if authority answers, do them the courtesy of listening. If you do not, then you are acting with the same arrogance towards authority and towards those that support the authority that you would assign to the authorities themselves.

The irrational skeptic is arrogant and disrespectful at heart - "I know you are lying, no matter what evidence exists. You can't fool me b/c I am, essentially, smarter than you."

In situations like 9/11, where first responders risked their lives, to continue to assert a conspiracy and to question the real cause of the act is to say to those who risked their lives - you were duped, you were played the fool, your "heroism" was nothing more than a show for others.

This was an act of war. Palestinians literally danced in the streets at the news and al-quieda has claimed, proudly, that it was their actions that did this. The first responders actions were not manipulated acts, but authentic acts of heroism.

Crap like "Loose Change" attempts to cheapen those facts by perverting the reality of the situation.[/QUOTE]

Wow, that is a fantastic post Joeredskin. I would say I couldn't say it better myself, but I doubt I would have come anywhere close to that good a post. Great job.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;422826]
In situations like 9/11, where first responders risked their lives, to continue to assert a conspiracy and to question the real cause of the act is to say to those who risked their lives - you were duped, you were played the fool, your "heroism" was nothing more than a show for others. [/quote]

I agree with everything in your statement, with this exception. No matter who was behind it or anyone's opinion of that, those guys would have been there doing their job. It wouldn't matter if it had been George Bush himself flying that plane, they would've been their saving lives and giving them as well. Maybe there are extreme radicals who will say their efforts were a waste, but any time anyone is put into a situation like that and risks and gives their lives in an attempt to save others... especailly knowingly, as happened on that day... the heroism cannot be argued, and I've never seen it as such.

I've listened to the 911 conspiracies. I know aq claimed responsibility and accept that as fact. However, how our govt responded to that, with the patriot act, the refusal to accept and acknowledge faultered security by this administration, and in fact to use that day of horror for political gain time and time again... especially in the justification of the Iraqi war... sickens me.

Kinda like how Toby Keith writes all these songs about patriotism and everyon admires him... he sells several million albums and all of his soldier and american themed songs hit #1... I guess the skeptic that I am is saddened by the thought of someone profiting so greatly from such tragedy. He may not have been anything to do with the cause, but the profitability has been great for him.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;422806]Definitely agree about the second part

As of the first part, funny you should mention that I was actually looking for a YouTube clip of that just now[/QUOTE]

LOL...I guess you couldn't find it huh?
I'm not a very good search when it comes to youtube.

Re: Loose Change
 

It just seems to me like the statements:

"if you don't support the war you don't support the troops"

and

"if you continue to perpetrate the conspiracy you spit in the face of the rescue workers"

are aimed at nothing but manipulation. In my opinion, the only people attempting to drag any hero's efforts through the mud are the people who use their efforts for their own gain... whether its political, or to "win" and argument.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;422899]LOL...I guess you couldn't find it huh?
I'm not a very good search when it comes to youtube.[/QUOTE]

Well I found this:

[YT]z6utwfaXQfA[/YT]

and this:

[url=http://www.911blogger.com/node/3641]Southpark Episode on 9/11 Conspiracy - Video Download | 911Blogger.com[/url]

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=JGisLordOfTheRings;422690]Did you even watch it? How can you refute [B]blatant scientifical[/B] evidence that most of this crap COULDNT have physically happened. 120 tons of stell melting at 2000F because of burninf jet fuel? Wtf ever....did u watch the towers come down? Tell me there weren't explosives in that building and I may call you crazy. Even the firefighters who were there agree.....

If you go around just believing exactly what they tell you, then you've become what they want; a sheep. A dumb animal who doesn't ask questions. Common sense can guide you through a lot of the BS.....[/quote]

I gave up trying to refute "scientifical" evidence years ago, especially when its blatant. There's no point arguing with "Scienticians".

I don't worry about the fact that I'm a sheep, though, since there are so many intelligent, free-thinking people like you who see through their lies. If it weren't for people like you we wouldn't know that 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is really real,or that Prescott Bush was Hitler's butler briefly in the 1920s,or that Richard Nixon was behind the wheel of the presidential limousine in Dallas before escaping through a manhole cover beneath the triple underpass, or that Vince Foster was mudered by Bill Clinton's dog Buddy.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=70Chip;422906]There's no point arguing with "Scienticians".
[/quote]


HAHAHAHAHA

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;422903]It just seems to me like the statements:

"if you don't support the war you don't support the troops"

and

"if you continue to perpetrate the conspiracy you spit in the face of the rescue workers"

are aimed at nothing but manipulation. In my opinion, the only people attempting to drag any hero's efforts through the mud are the people who use their efforts for their own gain... whether its political, or to "win" and argument.[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't believe it's accurate to say "if you don't support the war you don't support the troops"

But, as I mentioned earlier, someone I'm very close to played a big role in the recovery efforts. It took a lot out of that person, and still does to this day. I saw first hand what that person had to deal with day in and day out. And yeah, I find it a bit offensive for anyone to imply (especially based on some amateur film that was originally designed to be fiction anyway) that what that person and everyone else involved went through was simply part of some conspiracy, and further, to insinuate that those same people created the conspiracy.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=Buster;422688]You're an idiot if you believe this propaganda. No other way to say it.

Here's a few facts and refutations of this piece of trash film and the rest of the loony dreams. Then come back to reality.

I guess Spain, France, England and the rest of the world are all faking their terrorist attacks too? If the Bush administration took the Towers down, then I also guess that Clinton should have hired better bombers in 1993 since the government is obviously trying to kill us.

[URL="http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html"]Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics[/URL]

[url=http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102]Loose Change - JREF Forum[/url][/quote] agree 100%, if people believe this crap I feel really sorry for them.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=canthetuna;422908]HAHAHAHAHA[/quote]


My own personal "Scientician" assures me that cigarette smoking is the best way to cure "lung fever".

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;422905]Well I found this:

[YT]z6utwfaXQfA[/YT]

and this:

[url=http://www.911blogger.com/node/3641]Southpark Episode on 9/11 Conspiracy - Video Download | 911Blogger.com[/url][/QUOTE]

HAHAHAHA...
"you almost got away with it you sneaky butt hole"! Classic.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;422905]Well I found this:


[url=http://www.911blogger.com/node/3641]Southpark Episode on 9/11 Conspiracy - Video Download | 911Blogger.com[/url][/QUOTE]

LOL, that's the one I was talking about. LOL.

Re: Loose Change
 

Due to the fact that someone had mangled some words here, it got me to thinking that we do not use the dictionary enough in our society...soooo, Maybe the problem here is that one person does not understand what the word "fiction" means.
[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fiction]fiction - Definitions from Dictionary.com[/url]

If you still continue to argue, then it is likely that you have difficulty seeing reason. Being able to see reason is this definition:
[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sane]sane - Definitions from Dictionary.com[/url]

Of course lack of reasoning, and ignoring the truth once it has been placed in front of you, and insisting your way is the truth depsite the evidence to the contrary, well here is a definition for you:
[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/insane]insane - Definitions from Dictionary.com[/url]

Of course, at this point, we are all thinking the same thing:
[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moron]moron - Definitions from Dictionary.com[/url]

Re: Loose Change
 

I'm all for being skeptical and I thing there's some weird stuff going on, but it's always worth it to look at both sides of the story.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M&feature=related"]Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics, Part 1[/URL]

It's about a 5-part series, but it's a debate between the editors of Popular Mechanics and the kids who made Loose Change.

The kids who did Loose Change, while they have some interesting ideas, really presenting themselves poorly. They look like a bunch of young douchebags arguing with professionals when they snort and snicker and huff and puff and refer to it as "yellow journalism" or whatever.

Weird stuff going on and interesting nontheless - I'm not sure who I believe.

Re: Loose Change
 

F U all. Ban me.

Peace you ****S.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=mheisig;422954]I'm all for being skeptical and I thing there's some weird stuff going on, but it's always worth it to look at both sides of the story.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M&feature=related"]Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics, Part 1[/URL]

It's about a 5-part series, but it's a debate between the editors of Popular Mechanics and the kids who made Loose Change.

The kids who did Loose Change, while they have some interesting ideas, really presenting themselves poorly. They look like a bunch of young douchebags arguing with professionals when they snort and snicker and huff and puff and refer to it as "yellow journalism" or whatever.

Weird stuff going on and interesting nontheless - I'm not sure who I believe.[/QUOTE]

Now they're saying Popular Mechanics is in on the conspiracy because they are part of Heart Publishing? What a ****ing tool! Wish that Officer Rivieri dude would smack those kids around.

Those idiots are completing manipulating information. Case in point: At the 57:39 mark they extract part of a quote by Somerset County Coroner Wally Miller in the Washington Post, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there."

But they ignore the human tissue found.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A56110-2002May8&notFound=true]Hallowed Ground (washingtonpost.com)[/url] (5/12/02)

[QUOTE]As coroner, responsible for returning human remains, Miller has been forced to share with the families information that is unimaginable. As he clinically recounts to them, holding back very few details, the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact. Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total.

Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 on the magnificently sunny morning of September 11. He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says, "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there. It became like a giant funeral service." As a funeral director, Miller says, he is honored and humbled to preside over what has become essentially an immense cemetery stretching far into the scenic wooded mountain ridge. He considers it the final resting place of 40 national heroes.

(a bit later in the article)

Immediately after the crash, the seeming absence of human remains led the mind of coroner Wally Miller to a surreal fantasy: that Flight 93 had somehow stopped in mid-flight and discharged all of its passengers before crashing. "There was just nothing visible," he says. "It was the strangest feeling." It would be nearly an hour before Miller came upon his first trace of a body part. The emotionally wrenching impact of what happened to the bodies caused Miller to resolve to seek out and talk personally to every one of the victims' families. [/QUOTE]

There's also this:

[url=http://www.postgazette.com/headlines/20011003crash1003p3.asp]Latest Somerset crash site findings may yield added IDs[/url] (10/3/01)

[QUOTE]The FBI has mandated DNA testing to confirm the identities of remains, a process just beginning that Miller said could take four to six months. But using mostly dental records, Miller and staff have identified remains of 12 passengers -- a number that the coroner said might grow with last weekend's recovery of additional remains.

Remains, like the aircraft wreckage itself, were scattered when the jet hit the ground at as much as 575 mph, then exploded in a fireball of fuel.

With those of 12 people identified, Miller and his team have identified the remains of 27 percent of the people on the plane, more than the 20 percent match he said that experts predicted at the outset.[/QUOTE]

I could go on, but it hardly seems worth it. JGIsLOTR doesn't seem to want to believe anything but the "research" of that film. Not sure why the rest of us should really waste our time with yet another retarded thread that he's started

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;422964]F U all. Ban me.

Peace you ****S.[/QUOTE]

Grow up. Pay attention to all the evidence we're providing you that completely debunks that movie.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=SmootSmack;422966]Now they're saying Popular Mechanics is in on the conspiracy because they are part of Heart Publishing? What a ****ing tool! Wish that Officer Rivieri dude would smack those kids around.

Those idiots are completing manipulating information. Case in point: At the 57:39 mark they extract part of a quote by Somerset County Coroner Wally Miller in the Washington Post, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there."

But they ignore the human tissue found.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A56110-2002May8&notFound=true"]Hallowed Ground (washingtonpost.com)[/URL] (5/12/02)



There's also this:

[URL="http://www.postgazette.com/headlines/20011003crash1003p3.asp"]Latest Somerset crash site findings may yield added IDs[/URL] (10/3/01)



I[B] could go on, but it hardly seems worth it. JGIsLOTR doesn't seem to want to believe anything but the "research" of that film. Not sure why the rest of us should really waste our time with yet another retarded thread that he's started[/B][/quote]


Why dont you go FK yourself? That sounds like a fun plan, huh? You fking retarded bitch....eat my ass

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=SmootSmack;422968]Grow up. Pay attention to all the evidence we're providing you that completely debunks that movie.[/quote]

or you could suck my dick!

Re: Loose Change
 

Are you done?

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge all the links we've posted here?

Re: Loose Change
 

This thread is heading to a sad ending.

Re: Loose Change
 

Yo! I havent said Shit and about shit since my 2nd post on the matter and every makes assumptions like I havent checked the links or that my mind is the same. Are you ALL ****ing retarded? Do you have SO little a life as to try to make someone feel like they are dumb? Huh? This is a Skins site and we are SUPPOSED to be all family here. I have post 2 threads since Ive been here and gotten laughed at for both of them. Look dude, it's in the fking locker room and the "scientifical" evidence i stated was the melting degree of steel and NOTHING that you fat retarded old ****s are saying.

SO, Mr. Smoot, youre a mod on a forum. You must be the coolest. Get over yourself asshole. Just because you cant be a MAN in real life, doesnt mean you can talk shit over a computer and it makes it all good.

Re: Loose Change
 

OOO...this guy brought up a point I dont agree with! He 's a moron! An idiot! He wont read the facts!

ahaha.....you guys are a fking joke. SOme1 plz ban me.....i beg you

Re: Loose Change
 

Well it's not the locker room, it's the parking lot. But that's neither here nor there.

Ok, if you have read all the links and evidence then why don't you tell us how you feel about the film now?

Re: Loose Change
 

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7tMHMQ863Q&feature=related"]Loose Change Debate[/URL]

Here's the Loose Change creators in another debate. Around 7:15 they admit that they make some dubious claims and "were kids" when they made the film.

It's kind of a shame this discussion has gone straight down the shitter, as it was kind of interesting.

My personal opinion is that we don't have the whole story. I don't think it was a 100% Government conspiracy, but I also think there's a lot of holes in the official story that bear explanation and skepticism.

It seems like if you doubt any part of the official story then you're branded a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Do your own research, don't trust the media or the government and draw your own conclusions.

Re: Loose Change
 

Why should I? So I can be called a moron, retard and idiot because of what I think? WTF EVER. I reiterate, EAT ME.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;422975]OOO...this guy brought up a point I dont agree with! He 's a moron! An idiot! He wont read the facts!

ahaha.....you guys are a fking joke. SOme1 plz ban me.....i beg you[/QUOTE]

I'm not banning you. I want you to calm down and engage in a civilized discussion. Clean slate. You've brought up the film. I, and others, have brought up several holes in it. Now the ball's in your court

Re: Loose Change
 

See, you guys are the ones I beat the F out of in HS and now you think since you are a Mod on a Forum that this is how ur gonna get back at me. Nice. Tell me how my knuckles tasted, eh?

Re: Loose Change
 

Ok, no "morons" "retards" just a real discussion. Are you up for it?

Re: Loose Change
 

Drew, help me out here. Am I not trying to restore some sense of civility here?