Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

We do NOT have a 4th rounder. We gave our 4th rounder up to acquire Duckett and we did NOT get a 4th rounder from anyone else. We have all of our other draft picks.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;424918]These were all veteran starters who were just asked to be nickel or dime defensive backs. We weren't looking for the next Shawn Springs[/QUOTE]

Didn't say we were looking for another Springs, however, you said: [quote]But, man our luck has got to change at some point with the free agent nickelbacks we sign, doesn't it? (Harris, Wright, Macklin)[/quote] all I'm saying is, they were average before we got them, to expect anything otherwise is unrealistic.
ps- Florence is nothing extra special either.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;424927]Didn't say we were looking for another Springs, however, you said: all I'm saying is, they were average before we got them, to expect anything otherwise is unrealistic.
ps- Florence is nothing extra special either.[/QUOTE]

They weren't even average. But whatever

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;424930]They weren't even average. But whatever[/QUOTE]

LOL. Well, maybe you're right. But like you say...whatever. :D

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

FWIW, Florence's metrics are very similar to those of Carlos Rogers, and those of Fred Smoot circa Minnesota. He's going to allow 6-7 yards per pass in his direction. That's nickelback quality at best.

He's going to be 29 next year. He's better than, say, Kenny Wright or David Macklin or Mike Rumph, but he's not going to displace a healthy Rogers, an unhealthy Springs, or a prime-of-career Fred Smoot.

Basically, Drayton Florence does not lessen the need for Shawn Springs to play CB1 for us. However, he does address a select short term need for us until we can get Rogers back in the lineup. He's no Brian Kelly though :D

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

GTripp,

I agree that acquiring Florence will address a short term need but will not "lessen the need for Shawn Springs to play CB1 for us." However, I don't quite understand how "metrics" accurately measure how effective a corner is. I could see how metrics could measure how good a corner is in man coverage. But, with zone coverage and complex coverages, can you really measure how effective a corner is with raw numbers?

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;424945]GTripp,

I agree that acquiring Florence will address a short term need but will not "lessen the need for Shawn Springs to play CB1 for us." However, I don't quite understand how "metrics" accurately measure how effective a corner is. I could see how metrics could measure how good a corner is in man coverage. But, with zone coverage and complex coverages, can you really measure how effective a corner is with raw numbers?[/quote]Simply put, no.

But it's a good place to start. The metrics are at least relatively consistent from year to year, though hardly conclusive. They do factor in zone coverage with the man coverage to show roughly how good a player can defense the pass or attack the run.

But, at the end of the day, it's just a rough estimate of skill.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;424946]Simply put, no.

But it's a good place to start. The metrics are at least relatively consistent from year to year, though hardly conclusive. They do factor in zone coverage to show roughly how good a player can defense the pass or attack the run.

But, at the end of the day, it's just a rough estimate of skill.[/QUOTE]

How do they factor in for example Neil O'Donnell throwing in Larry Brown's direction all game long because Deion Sanders is locking down the other side?

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;424947]How do they factor in for example Neil O'Donnell throwing in Larry Brown's direction all game long because Deion Sanders is locking down the other side?[/quote]You can see how often a corner was picked on, it's one of the easiest things to measure.

It's all done on a per play basis, and it's all relative. Springs' numbers aren't affected by plays where they throw on Rogers and vice versa.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

I was really hoping for a replacement for springs. When he goes up against a teams best these days he seems to get beat more often in man. I know he had 4 picks last year but they were not against a teams #1. I just keep having thoughts of him getting burned alive against T.O. last year(4 T.D.'s), and yes they played a ton of man coverage that game. I really hope we draft a corner in the first or second round. I just hope one day we can find another lock down corner to free things up in coverage on D.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=Skins4Life101;424878]If we dont pick up a big name FA WR, and settle for Hackett, we are DEFINATELY going to go for a big time WR in the 2nd and possibly again in the later rounds.

We need WR Depth just a smidgen less than OLine help.[/quote]

kinda doubt it.

sign CB/WR, draft DL/OL/DB or DL/OL/DL. while that wouldn't really fix everything, it'd be an attempt.

on the OL we may have decent depth (demulling, fabini, heyer, rookie OT, l alexander (OL/DT)), though ages are worrisome.

If we get guys like campbell (though i like harvey better) and dre moore or trevor laws etc, then griffin and daniels become much easier to ditch and the DL age problem is fixed.

then we've got an OL age issue without a real solution yet, and then a couple old LBs (but those are easier to replace).

that'd leave #1 CB/ #1 WR/#2 S for next year/offseason, as well as more looks at OL and LB.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

sooner or later the skins are going to have to address the line issues, on both sides of the ball. this draft has all kind of defensive line help available. i really hope that's the way they go. the receivers the skins have right now are good enough, at least for one more season.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

Hackett and Florence sound good to me. Leaving plenty of room in the draft for Youth on the O/D line. I think these role players will boost the stars that are in place on the team. I'll be excited if we can pull off a solid but not over the top offseason.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=dmek25;424992]sooner or later the skins are going to have to address the line issues, on both sides of the ball. this draft has all kind of defensive line help available. i really hope that's the way they go. the [B]receivers the skins have right now are good enough, at least for one more season[/B].[/quote]

You may be right, but if you want a wr to be good enough next year & after, it might be a good choice to draft one this year. His first year contribution will be limited, but he may start in year 2 & really produce in year 3.

This sounds like a good draft for d-line & wr's. Seems the draft has less depth at db & o line.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

I would be quite happy if the skins pulled this off.
We need CB depth, a WR (either a stud #1 or someone that knows the system)
Though we need LB depth...and potentially a part time starting OLB...it is not worth breaking the bank for Briggs...we can go 2 more years without a LB stud signing

The only position worth throwing big bucks at now (considering our cap situation) is WR [U]if[/U] they are a pro bowler.....and I'm starting to think trading a draft pick on top of that is not worth it.

Lets be smart and low key again this off season....it would prove a lot to Snyder bashers that said the only reason he didn't make a big FA splash last year was because of Gibbs' influence.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;424992]this draft has all kind of defensive line help available. i really hope that's the way they go.[/QUOTE]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the draft is fairly deep at DL and OL? This draft seems like a perfect opportunity to shore up those areas of our depth chart.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;425106]Is it just me, or does it seem like the draft is fairly deep at DL and OL? This draft seems like a perfect opportunity to shore up those areas of our depth chart.[/QUOTE]

Yea I was thinking the same thing. We could pick a DE in the first round whatever in the second and still find good help in the later on.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

DL is going to be a hot pick this year after the gints SB run with the big DL rotation.

About Florence: that hit on Schaub was pretty brutal: knocked him out of the game on a complete cheap shot (post INT headhunting). He should have been ejected. But as a depth CB, he's ok.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;425106]Is it just me, or does it seem like the draft is fairly deep at DL and OL? This draft seems like a perfect opportunity to shore up those areas of our depth chart.[/quote]

I'm under the impression it's deep at DL. At OL, it's deep at the top but not much thereafter, no. of good tackles in the top 50-60, but not much beyond.

I'll admit I'm just going on early rankings & the little I've heard from the analysts at espn.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;425106]Is it just me, or does it seem like the draft is fairly deep at DL and OL? This draft seems like a perfect opportunity to shore up those areas of our depth chart.[/quote]No, your definately on to something.

The depth at those positions really takes the pressure off having to hit on the first rounder. We can spend all three picks on the lines, and will probably end up with AT LEAST two quality starters going forward.

The good news is we will have a day to re-evaluate after the first two rounds, so we can find the best value in the third.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=freddyg12;425122]I'm under the impression it's deep at DL. At OL, it's deep at the top but not much thereafter, no. of good tackles in the top 50-60, but not much beyond.

I'll admit I'm just going on early rankings & the little I've heard from the analysts at espn.[/quote]It's really deep at OT, but our need is much stronger on the interior.

The strength of OT in the draft will likely push the OG's and C's further down the board.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;425134]No, your definately on to something.

The depth at those positions really takes the pressure off having to hit on the first rounder. We can spend all three picks on the lines, and will probably end up with AT LEAST two quality starters going forward.

The good news is we will have a day to re-evaluate after the first two rounds, so we can find the best value in the third.[/quote]

I heard on NFL Network earlier that 10 offensive tackles could be drafted in the first two rounds, which would be a record. It could be a very productive draft for us given our needs, the wealth of talent at those positions, and how many picks we have.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

The 4th rounder we paid for Duckett sure would come in handy. As far as Florence and Hackett, I like it when we draft our own players and develop them, not take other teams' rejects.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

I don't hear many people talking about the Safeties? Landry looks like a BEAST and Doughty improved after moving to SS. But Prioleau, Stoutmire and Fox as the backups make me nervous. I think it would be better to sign a safety and then draft a corner.

like: [B]O.J. Atogwe[/B]

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=30gut;425205]I don't hear many people talking about the Safeties? Landry looks like a BEAST and Doughty improved after moving to SS. But Prioleau, Stoutmire and Fox as the backups make me nervous. I think it would be better to sign a safety and then draft a corner.

like: [B]O.J. Atogwe[/B][/QUOTE]

Is Atogwe even available?

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

we're looking at OT in this draft, not G/C from what i've heard (they're interested in getting pucillo and fabini back for that).

it's crazy, but quality OTs might go into the third round this year, and the 2nd is a likely time for us to grab up... future LT with heyer as a future RT until we can find something better or he improves more, and wait on G/Cs till next year or look in the UDFAs.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=That Guy;425257]we're looking at OT in this draft, not G/C from what i've heard (they're interested in getting pucillo and fabini back for that).

it's crazy, but quality OTs might go into the third round this year, and the 2nd is a likely time for us to grab up... future LT with heyer as a future RT until we can find something better or he improves more, and wait on G/Cs till next year or look in the UDFAs.[/quote]

That's why I think Branden Albert of uva is the ideal O line pick, he can play guard or tackle.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

they are getting wise.i know its because they have to but whatever works..

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

hackett is a cool pickup if he doesnt cost too much...but florence is junk..he gets burned easy,and commits bone head penalties

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

florence belongs at nickel, thats why he wont be getting burned with Smoot and Springs in there. And when Rogers comes back Florence will just be moved to dime. IMO, all solid starters, but we deff need to get some future in the draft. I am in no way sold on Rogers.

As far a Hackett goes, I cannot see a problem with him. It will be a step foward when adding him to our current corps.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=Redskin Warrior;425207]Is Atogwe even available?[/QUOTE]

Yeah bro here's a list:
Pos Pos
Rank Rating Name Type Yr Ht/Wt College 2007 Team Signed Team
S 1 Ken Hamlin UFA 5 6-2/209 Arkansas Dallas
S 2 Gibril Wilson UFA 4 6-0/197 Tennessee NY Giants
S 3 Sammy Knight UFA 8 6-1/215 USC Jacksonville
S 4 Dwight Smith UFA 7 5-10/201 Akron Minnesota
S 5 Madieu Williams UFA 4 6-1/203 Maryland Cincinnati
S 6 Oshiomogho Atogwe RFA 3 5-11/210 Stanford St. Louis
S 7 Chris Crocker UFA 5 5-11/192 Marshall Atlanta
S 8 Yeremiah Bell UFA 4 6-0/200 Eastern Kentucky Miami
S 9 Erik Coleman UFA 4 5-10/200 Washington State NY Jets
S 10 Deke Cooper UFA 5 6-2/210 Notre Dame Carolina
S 11 Jim Leonhard RFA 3 5-8/185 Wisconsin Buffalo
S 12 Brandon McGowan RFA 3 5-11/205 Maine Chicago
S 13 Mike Doss UFA 5 5-10/207 Ohio State Minnesota
S 14 Tank Williams UFA 6 6-2/223 Stanford Minnesota
S 15 Eugene Wilson UFA 5 5-10/195 Illinois New England
S 16 Matt Giordano UFA 3 5-11/200 California Indianapolis
S 17 Gerome Sapp UFA 5 6-1/216 Notre Dame Baltimore
S 18 J.R. Reed UFA 4 5-11/205 South Florida Philadelphia
S 19 Michael Boulware UFA 4 6-3/220 Florida State Houston
S 20 Lance Schulters UFA 10 6-2/202 Hofstra Miami
S 21 Idrees Bashir UFA 6 6-2/198 Memphis Detroit
S 22 Jay Bellamy UFA 14 5-11/200 Rutgers New Orleans

Scout.com

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;425257]we're looking at OT in this draft, not G/C from what i've heard (they're interested in getting pucillo and fabini back for that).

it's crazy, but quality OTs might go into the third round this year, and the 2nd is a likely time for us to grab up... future LT with heyer as a future RT until we can find something better or he improves more, and wait on G/Cs till next year or look in the UDFAs.[/QUOTE]

OT class is surprisingly deep this year, we may wait until the later rounds to get help there depending on how everthing shakes out. Ideally we'll take both an OG and an OT in the draft.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

Yeah there should be some good tackles in the 3rd round

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

I hope we make a run at Justin Smiley. The guy was a second round pick in the draft a few yeras ago and was probably part of the reason that Frank Gore had such a monster season back in 2006.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

I am all for signing CB Florence & WR Hackett; as long as they are descent contracts. I feel they can help us in a few ways, as for Briggs, well I do not feel we need him. If we need a fill in type guy or someone for depth I would intertain the thoughs of bringing back old #56 for a modest vet contract. I feel this is already a possiblity of his return since GW is gone.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

Atogwe is a restricted free agent, meaning we'd have to give up draft picks to acquire him.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

The latest report from the WP is that we're not going to go after Florence and Hackett.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[quote=JLee9718;425872]The latest report from the WP is that we're not going to go after Florence and Hackett.[/quote]

I don't see that on the Redskins front page or the Insider section. Can you cite your source?

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

Lions just released Fernando Bryant...any interest? I mean would you guys want to sign him, not asking if the Redskins are interested.

Re: JLC: Skins to Pursue CB Florence & WR Hackett; Can't Afford Briggs?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;425892]Lions just released Fernando Bryant...any interest? I mean would you guys want to sign him, not asking if the Redskins are interested.[/QUOTE]

I think he's production has decline over the years.