Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;426704]During my sleep something occurred to me - why the hell would the Skins designate Lloyd as a June 1 cut now??? Don't get me wrong, I understand the cap reasons, but why not just wait until June 1?

The spirit of the "early June 1" rule was that guys could count as June 1 cuts while being released earlier so as not to miss the free agent window starting in March. It's a courtesy rule so as not to penalize the player by making him miss the heat of free agency.

Now if this was Thomas or Samuels or someone who had given a bunch of good years to the team then I fully understand letting them out early. But why Lloyd? By all accounts Lloyd was not exactly a team player, in fact the opposite. And since there is no financial incentive for the Skins to let him out early, why do it? Why not let him rot on the sidelines until June?

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that Lloyd agreed to pay the Skins some money back under the table, probably in the form of a donation to Snyder's favorite charity - The Cerrato Fund.

Anyone have a different take?[/quote]

CC - I thought the Skins did it now because Llyod had a roster bonus of $1.8 million if he was on the team in March 2008 and the Skins did not want to pay him the roster bonus.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

One thing about that though, CC. The Redskins were due to pay Lloyd a $1.8 million roster bonus at some point, which is part of the $4.2 million he's on the books for in 2008. JLC was saying that the team never intended to give him that money so that was the incentive for jettisoning him now. I think they wanted to avoid having to pay that $1.8 million. Do you know when he was due to receive that payment?

Looks like Bill had the same question, beat me to it!

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

Ah yes! I forgot about that roster bonus. That is the answer. Thank you gentlemen.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

I like how the Lloyd money comes off the books at Rookie signing time. That means we can't go out and spend it.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

maybe they didn't want the drama. that karma can bite you later on when other players see that happening.

it's not like he's going to get a huge contract ever again, and that bonus thing.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

Schneed10, Yesterday I thought we were at 1.4 mil under with the Lloyd cut and it will change later in June when he counts against us. Today they cut Brunell and it is supposed to save us 3.4 but we are still at 1.4 under the cap.

Am I missing something? help. Maybe I'm to quick to the punch and you have not updated that part yet? Please say yes.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=SBXVII;427100]Schneed10, Yesterday I thought we were at 1.4 mil under with the Lloyd cut and it will change later in June when he counts against us. Today they cut Brunell and it is supposed to save us 3.4 but we are still at 1.4 under the cap.

Am I missing something? help. Maybe I'm to quick to the punch and you have not updated that part yet? Please say yes.[/quote]Brunell's voiding was included in the 1.4 figure.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=GTripp0012;427124]Brunell's voiding was included in the 1.4 figure.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

because as long as hes on the team then he shows up to sprign practice, mini camp, etc, and is hes a cancer and not part of your plans then no point in him being there and making someone else think they dont have a spot.

thats just my opinion, seemed like something zorn needed to do to keep the correct mindset going and get thigns in place

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

Gotcha. head was up my you know what. contracts that were to be voided were not included due to the fact they run out and do not count against after March 1st.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

The top post in this thread has been updated to reflect the Santana Moss contract extension.

The Redskins extended Moss's contract by two years, putting him under contract through the 2013 season. He is scheduled to receive base salaries of $5.0 million in 2012 and $6.0 million in 2013.

This transaction created $2.1 million in cap space. It is clear that the Redskins are trying to create more cap room this year by extending key players rather than simply restructuring them.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

Note: This thread has not yet been updated for the Todd Collins signing. Awaiting official contract numbers.

I'd expect his 2008 cap hit to be about $1.85 million.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=Schneed10;427649]The top post in this thread has been updated to reflect the Santana Moss contract extension.

The Redskins extended Moss's contract by two years, putting him under contract through the 2013 season. He is scheduled to receive base salaries of $5.0 million in 2012 and $6.0 million in 2013.

This transaction created $2.1 million in cap space. [B]It is clear that the Redskins are trying to create more cap room this year by extending key players rather than simply restructuring them[/B].[/quote]

What are the advantages of extending a contract vs. restructuring exactly?

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=Mattyk72;427659]What are the advantages of extending a contract vs. restructuring exactly?[/quote]

With the way the Redskins are doing things, they're nearly the same, but the extension creates a little bit more room this year than a simple restructure would.

In a restructure, you take the player's base salary and convert as much of it as possible to a signing bonus, paying him up front. This allows you to spread the cap hit of that money over the remainder of his contract, thereby reducing his 08 cap figure and increasing the cap figures on the remaining years.

But with an extension, you're adding years to the deal. In Moss's case, his old contract said he'd be a Skin till 2011, or four more seasons. Today the Skins gave him $3.25 million as a signing bonus. If we restructured him, that $3.25 million would get spread over the remaining four years. But since we extended him, he now has six years left, so the $3.25 million gets spread over 6 years instead of four, reducing the amount you carry each season.

$3.25 divided by four years is $810K per season. $3.25 divided by six years is $540 K per season. A difference of a little more than $200K per year.

So it creates more cap room now, reduces the cap hits over the next four years, and adds two more years on at the end where we have to carry the difference.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

It's like they're gearing up for at least ONE go at a big name.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=Schneed10;427668]With the way the Redskins are doing things, they're nearly the same, but the extension creates a little bit more room this year than a simple restructure would.

In a restructure, you take the player's base salary and convert as much of it as possible to a signing bonus, paying him up front. This allows you to spread the cap hit of that money over the remainder of his contract, thereby reducing his 08 cap figure and increasing the cap figures on the remaining years.

But with an extension, you're adding years to the deal. In Moss's case, his old contract said he'd be a Skin till 2011, or four more seasons. Today the Skins gave him $3.25 million as a signing bonus. If we restructured him, that $3.25 million would get spread over the remaining four years. But since we extended him, he now has six years left, so the $3.25 million gets spread over 6 years instead of four, reducing the amount you carry each season.

$3.25 divided by four years is $810K per season. $3.25 divided by six years is $540 K per season. A difference of a little more than $200K per year.

So it creates more cap room now, reduces the cap hits over the next four years, and adds two more years on at the end where we have to carry the difference.[/quote]

that's what I figured, thanks

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;427670]It's like they're gearing up for at least ONE go at a big name.[/QUOTE]

That's what I am thinking...why create all this room if your not going to use it. And if they were only interested in bargain free agents later on then the cap room they had before the Moss extension was already enough.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

I'm not sure if they will go after a big name or not. $3.4M in cap space isn't much room to do anything, so they need to clear up more room regardless.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=Mattyk72;427683]I'm not sure if they will go after a big name or not. $3.4M in cap space isn't much room to do anything, so they need to clear up more room regardless.[/quote]Especially since we used about 1/3 of it to sign Collins.

$1.5 million cap hit - $0.3 rule of 51 credit = $1.2 million cap spent this year on TC.

So we're back down in the 2.3-2.2 room range.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

JLC blog, Current:

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

Posted at 4:42 PM ET, 02/29/2008
Salary Cap Update

So the Skins were $3.5 million under the cap yesterday. Once the Collins signing becomes official - he has agreed to terms but all of the paperwork has not yet been executed - that would put the Skins at $2 million under the cap.

However, the rengotiation with Santana Moss is complete and official, sources said, creating an additional $2.1 million in space. So let's call it $4.1 for now. And the Clinton Portis renegotiation is essentiall done, sources said, and once that is reflected in the cap figures the Skins would be sitting on roughly $8 million in room.

Now, most teams will put at least a few million aside to account for injuries and cap issues through the season, and the Skins will need several million more to sign draft picks. But they will also create more space in June with the Brandon Lloyd cut - and they can trim some fat by making other cuts as well - and of course, Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and Cornelius Griffin remain prime candidates for new deals should a need arise.

To this point the team has not asked any of them for permission to re-do their deals, sources said.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=Mattyk72;427683]I'm not sure if they will go after a big name or not. $3.4M in cap space isn't much room to do anything, so they need to clear up more room regardless.[/quote]

Yeah I agree with this. My summary at the top of this thread shows we can clear up to $16 million in room, but that's only if we choose to restructure everyone I listed. It very well could be that the Skins want to be measured this time, and go ahead and eat the cap space for those players in '08 without clearing the space they could. This would certainly be wise from a long-term standpoint, as they'd increase their flexibility in 2009 and beyond.

Or like TMC said, they could be trying to clear the space to trade for someone like, I dunno, Ocho Cinco and pay him a king's ransom.

It's hard to say. Fun time of year though, either way!

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

Schneed, I don't know if you saw this yet, but JLC has updated his blog with new cap figures.

[QUOTE]Posted at 4:42 PM ET, 02/29/2008
Salary Cap Update
So the Skins were $3.5 million under the cap yesterday. Once the Collins signing becomes official - he has agreed to terms but all of the paperwork has not yet been executed - that would put the Skins at $2 million under the cap.

However, the rengotiation with Santana Moss is complete and official, sources said, creating an additional $2.1 million in space. So let's call it $4.1 for now. And the Clinton Portis renegotiation is essentiall done, sources said, and once that is reflected in the cap figures the Skins would be sitting on roughly $8 million in room.

Now, most teams will put at least a few million aside to account for injuries and cap issues through the season, and the Skins will need several million more to sign draft picks. But they will also create more space in June with the Brandon Lloyd cut - and they can trim some fat by making other cuts as well - and of course, Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and Cornelius Griffin remain prime candidates for new deals should a need arise.

To this point the team has not asked any of them for permission to re-do their deals, sources said.[/QUOTE]

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=Redskins_P;427723]Schneed, I don't know if you saw this yet, but JLC has updated his blog with new cap figures.[/quote]

JLC has it a little mixed up. The Skins were $3.5 million under the cap AFTER extending Santana Moss, not before.

If Portis did indeed restructure, I'd have that being worth $3.8 million in savings (maybe a little more if an extension was part of it). So if Portis did restructure, I have us at $6.3 under the cap..

I'm not going to include any Portis numbers until I see something official or CC puts out some numbers. If CC puts 'em out, they're right.

I have gone ahead and updated the top post to reflect Todd Collins and Santana Moss. We're $2.5 under, with another $2.4 clearing for Lloyd by June 1.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;427794]I have gone ahead and updated the top post to reflect Todd Collins and Santana Moss. We're $2.5 under, with another $2.4 clearing for Lloyd by June 1.[/QUOTE]

I just did an update.

- PC has Collins on his site: 6 years, $14.7M Base Salary, $3M Signing Bonus, $100K LTBE in 2008-2010, Total Contract $18M. 2008 cap hit $1.5M. The info hasn't hit NFLPA yet but PC is usually good with this type of stuff.

- The official 2008 NFL salary cap is set at $116.729M, up from the previous estimate of $116M.

- Jason Campbell's 2008 salary has gone up by $600K. It appears he triggered a salary escalator clause in his contract.

- Santana Moss' restructure saved us $2.1M against the 2008 cap as Schneed has already pointed out.

- I lowered our cap credits by $15K to account for Tyler Ecker's SB allocation not being counted in the top 51.

I have us at exactly $2.5M under the 2008 cap, just as Schneed the Cap Clairvoyant predicted.

PS - Working the Warpath cap night shift is tiring. I hope Matty lets me switch shifts with Schneed one day. :coach:

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;427821]
PS - Working the Warpath cap night shift is tiring. I hope Matty lets me switch shifts with Schneed one day. :coach:[/quote]

Nice update.

To think I have a shift though? No way CC, it's your cap world, I'm just livin in it!

Nice work as usual.

Do you think when the Skins are planning out their cap budgets for the next season that they do an analysis of some sort on league revenues in order to get the best estimate of what the cap limit will be each season? Since they've been operating pretty tight to the cap the last few seasons, I'd imagine that's the first thing they'd want to hone in on real well.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;427902]Do you think when the Skins are planning out their cap budgets for the next season that they do an analysis of some sort on league revenues in order to get the best estimate of what the cap limit will be each season? Since they've been operating pretty tight to the cap the last few seasons, I'd imagine that's the first thing they'd want to hone in on real well.[/QUOTE]

Yes I would guess they definitely do this. They probably project a few years into the future.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

Im a little confused, i thought that we cut brandon lloyd, so why is he still on our cap sheets? Is it cause we don't know if he is a pre or post june 1st cut?

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

He is a June 1 cut

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;428339]Im a little confused, i thought that we cut brandon lloyd, so why is he still on our cap sheets? Is it cause we don't know if he is a pre or post june 1st cut?[/quote]

Seek and ye shall find.

[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/redskins-salary-cap-central/22642-current-redskins-salary-cap-status-2008-a-3.html#post426547[/URL]

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

shoot man, I was hoping that we would work some money around so that we could cut him this year. I think we have the space to do it this year if we dont pay big $ in FA, and it would allow us to have more space to work next year to pick up some FA's.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

Top post in this thread has been updated to reflect the tender offer to K Shaun Suisham.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;428631]Top post in this thread has been updated to reflect the tender offer to K Shaun Suisham.[/QUOTE]

LOL "tender offer" Just sounds funny.

"Hey Shaun...it's Vinny. Yeah, you know I've been thinking about you. Thinking about you, me, an empty football field. Shh! Come here, I know what you need..."

(damn, that's messed up)

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=SmootSmack;428653]LOL "tender offer" Just sounds funny.

"Hey Shaun...it's Vinny. Yeah, you know I've been thinking about you. Thinking about you, me, an empty football field. Shh! Come here, I know what you need..."

(damn, that's messed up)[/quote]


WOW![IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon10.gif[/IMG]

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

I just did an update with Portis and Suish.

Suish got an EFA tender of $520K.

Seems Portis did an overhaul on his contract. Here's what I can decipher so far:

- His contract was extended 2 years (thru 2013).
- He received an $8.5M salary in 2012 and 2013.
- His salary was reduced by $500K in 2010 and 2011.
- He converted $4.4435M of 2008 salary to SB.
- He converted $5.882M of 2009 salary to SB.
- We saved $2.723M on the 2008 cap.
- We saved $4.16M on the 2009 cap.

After these changes I have us at $5.073M under the 2008 cap. This differs from the reported figure of $8M under. I will reconfirm my numbers when PC updates his sheets.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=SmootSmack;428653]LOL "tender offer" Just sounds funny.

"Hey Shaun...it's Vinny. Yeah, you know I've been thinking about you. Thinking about you, me, an empty football field. Shh! Come here, I know what you need..."

(damn, that's messed up)[/quote]

that literally made me laugh out loud

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;429150]I just did an update with Portis and Suish.

Suish got an EFA tender of $520K.

Seems Portis did an overhaul on his contract. Here's what I can decipher so far:

- His contract was extended 2 years (thru 2013).
- He received an $8.5M salary in 2012 and 2013.
- His salary was reduced by $500K in 2010 and 2011.
- He converted $4.4435M of 2008 salary to SB.
- He converted $5.882M of 2009 salary to SB.
- We saved $2.723M on the 2008 cap.
- We saved $4.16M on the 2009 cap.

After these changes I have us at $5.073M under the 2008 cap. This differs from the reported figure of $8M under. I will reconfirm my numbers when PC updates his sheets.[/quote]

I think that reported figure of $8.0 million in room includes the $2.4 million in savings that we'll realize for Brandon Lloyd on June 1.

In one of his blog entries, JLC was saying that the Skins were (at the time) currently $4.9 million under the cap, and then once the Portis deal was done, they'd have $8.0 million in room.

Turns out that $4.9 in room was exactly what you and I had the team at [I]after[/I] Lloyd clears the books.

Now we have the Skins (post Lloyd) at $7.45 million in room, which is only $0.55 off. JLC could have been rounding, or he could have simply not known how ridiculously complicated and creative that Portis extension was. Seriously, Snyder gave Portis his 2009 base salary money [B]a year early [/B]as part of this extension in order to allow that amount to allocate over 2008, 2009, and beyond, clearing some of that hit off the books now. This shows an unwavering financial commitment to Clinton Portis as a Redskin for life. And rightfully so, the guy is one of the best all-around football players in the NFL. Pound for pound, quite possibly the best pass blocker in the entire NFL. Brilliant contract restructuring there.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=Schneed10;429275]I think that reported figure of $8.0 million in room includes the $2.4 million in savings that we'll realize for Brandon Lloyd on June 1.

In one of his blog entries, JLC was saying that the Skins were (at the time) currently $4.9 million under the cap, and then once the Portis deal was done, they'd have $8.0 million in room.

Turns out that $4.9 in room was exactly what you and I had the team at [I]after[/I] Lloyd clears the books.

Now we have the Skins (post Lloyd) at $7.45 million in room, which is only $0.55 off. JLC could have been rounding, or he could have simply not known how ridiculously complicated and creative that Portis extension was. Seriously, Snyder gave Portis his 2009 base salary money [B]a year early [/B]as part of this extension in order to allow that amount to allocate over 2008, 2009, and beyond, clearing some of that hit off the books now. [B]This shows an unwavering financial commitment to Clinton Portis as a Redskin for life. And rightfully so, the guy is one of the best all-around football players in the NFL. Pound for pound, quite possibly the best pass blocker in the entire NFL. Brilliant contract restructuring there.[/B][/quote]

Snyder and Vinny are big CP guys. I remember reading that they were gushing about him with the potential HC candidates during the interview process.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

I may be the only person to ever say this on this board, but I think that the Portis/Bailey trade was totally worth it. CP has been a true leader since the day he stepped foot in Redskins Park.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I honestly think we got the better half of that trade.

I just think CP brings so much more to the table.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

It was absolutely worth it. 100%. Champ had to leave. Some things are bigger than football.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2008
 

[quote=SmootSmack;429305]It was absolutely worth it. 100%. Champ had to leave. Some things are bigger than football.[/quote]


Absolutely. I completely agree.